there should be a role system similar to eve, where members of a corporation must be given permission to enter PC by directors

there should be a role system similar to eve, where members of a corporation must be given permission to enter PC by directors

Sabotaging is fine and fun - but when it's as easy as asking to join on a 500,000 SP alt - getting in - then holding PC ransom the moment it comes up... then that's not meta - that's an issue.

Apparently DUST players are either too idiotic, entitled, or lazy to use proper operational security. Holding corporations exist for a reason.

Better solution in the meantime since it is likely going to take a major Sony patch to 'resolve' the issue.

Make an alt corp move all the grunts to that corp and keep all the squad leaders in your current, that way the only way they can get into PC is invites from the main corp's squad leaders only. Use a combined channel to announce times and call outs on inbound or use your forums. Grunt corp does no PC itself what so ever.

Anyone that gives trouble you boot em out.

A better solution would be "Kick Scrub From Squad" option. That's all we need!

Better solution in the meantime since it is likely going to take a major Sony patch to 'resolve' the issue.

Make an alt corp move all the grunts to that corp and keep all the squad leaders in your current, that way the only way they can get into PC is invites from the main corp's squad leaders only. Use a combined channel to announce times and call outs on inbound or use your forums. Grunt corp does no PC itself what so ever.

Anyone that gives trouble you boot em out.

there should be a role system similar to eve, where members of a corporation must be given permission to enter PC by directors

Ain't happening until next Sony patch most likely which is an atagonizing 3 months.

Fix your issue now and survive the next 3 months.

Or die a slow death due to back stabbing and lax security in that time.

Choice is yours. Adapt or Die.

Some corps already do this, but what about corps that openly recruit to help new guys out? D-Uni is a great example of what being nice gets you.

A corp dedicated to helping new guys out.

What about new people that came over to see what PC is about? Or new people wanting to be part of a serious corp? Tell them to suck it up cuz they not gonna see PC in action?

Sounds like a great way to turn people away I guess.

LOL. Back stabbers can backstab only once. Chronos basically messed up by bringing the meta game mentality this early in PC. Its no longer Adapt or Die. Its Adapt and Kill or Adapt and Destroy.

I haven't read in-depth about this sabotage, but I see the problem. Honestly let's get it out in the open right now:

Planetary Conquest was never intended for the general populace.

It's for competitive, hardcore players. There are benefits for casuals to play but they will get destroyed. Beta players etc. are the only people that really have a place in PC. People that are committed to long-term play, have a great understanding of how this game works.

Corps. that are hiring third party mercs or have loose recruitment policies will learn very quickly to not be so trusting. These new guys (the legit ones) will just be a liability in either skill or sp, or both.

If you're a new guy reading this thead don't worry too much about Planetary Conquest; it's basically just Skirmish with people playing that have over 5mil sp AT LEAST. Focus on figuring the game out, learning the maps etc.

Grunt corp can easily let newer guys in, have evaluation times, and since they're invite into PC only you only take who you think deserves to go from experience in non-PC battles elsewhere such as FW and high sec action. Officer corp only recruits the most trusted and faithful of the grunts after an extensive evaluation period.

So you're saying, new people coming over are mainly casual. Partly right, but I know competitive people that came over to try it out.

If you can't see a problem in new people NOT getting recruited, then lol. i can't make you see the problem of new people trying out DUST and can't get into a serious corp.

Tell them too HTFU? That's the solution to everything in DUST I see.

Yes,yes and more yes.

Really my only problem with it,as it is,its far to easy to sneak in and mess stuff up.

A green light system I would like.

You put a lot of words into my mouth and made a lot of assumptions. I'll give you a thought out response when you understand what I said.

I really,don't mind the spying,trolling,thievery,savagery,and debauchery.

As it is now,any system that I see that at least gives the leaders of a corp,the ability to allow certain groups go in would be better.I mean for leaders shouldn't they have the say in saying who fights and represents there corp?

nope, I understood what you said, and you missed the point of this whole argument. Your answer to new people is don't bother with PC and forget about getting into a well established corp...

GG

Nope, I said don't expect to be a big shot without earning it. Don't expect corps to be 100% willing to recruit you without showing loyalty. I said PC the odds areagainst you so make sure you are prepared enough so that your knowledge and skill make up for your lack of SP.


My point is that assholes creating alts have ruined the new player experience in a game that just came out of beta and to not expect everybody to be nice as a result. I'm all for new guys getting into big corps but corps need to be more than just dudes wearing thesame color. They need to be a team willing to worktogether and sacrifice if necessary for the greater good.

Now stop putting words in my mouth and pretending like you know me. I also never said "HTFU" or implied that's what people need to do. If you have that mentality embedded in you that is not my fault. Hate the game if you need to but it is what it is and people in general are horrible creatures.

Ignoring this thead from here on.

Nope, I said don't expect to be a big shot without earning it. Don't expect corps to be 100% willing to recruit you without showing loyalty. I said PC the odds areagainst you so make sure you are prepared enough so that your knowledge and skill make up for your lack of SP.

My point is that assholes creating alts have ruined the new player experience in a game that just came out of beta and to not expect everybody to be nice as a result. I'm all for new guys getting into big corps but corps need to be more than just dudes wearing thesame color. They need to be a team willing to worktogether and sacrifice if necessary for the greater good.

Now stop putting words in my mouth and pretending like you know me. I also never said "HTFU" or implied that's what people need to do. If you have that mentality embedded in you that is not my fault. Hate the game if you need to but it is what it is and people in general are horrible creatures.

Ignoring this thead from here on.

Empires will fall though. Nobody will hold Model Heth forever.

Better solution in the meantime since it is likely going to take a major Sony patch to 'resolve' the issue.

Make an alt corp move all the grunts to that corp and keep all the squad leaders in your current, that way the only way they can get into PC is invites from the main corp's squad leaders only. Use a combined channel to announce times and call outs on inbound or use your forums. Grunt corp does no PC itself what so ever.

Anyone that gives trouble you boot em out.

I swear some of you FPSers would be smarter than that and beat me to the solution.

As the rules in New Eden are:

1. If you cannot afford to do it again, do not do it
2. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
3. If you cannot defend it, you certainly do not deserve it!

Some corps already do this, but what about corps that openly recruit to help new guys out? D-Uni is a great example of what being nice gets you.

A corp dedicated to helping new guys out.

It's a race to the bottom.

I for one will be interested to see what method CCP uses to address this issue. They can't readily ignore it for years like the old moon goo exploit in Eve Online.

Or they can ignore it. Although it will be a sad day when most people playing are doing it because they have to or can't hold null sov for their Eve Corp.

CCP forgot to add a bunch of FPS basics like kick vote, match start countdowns to allow ppl to spawn, working controls, key remapping, stable framerate etc etc..

In time your average FPS gamer isn't gonna care about Dust if these core basics aren't addressed. It's gonna turn into just a side game for Eve players so they can get their precious internet spaceship bonuses.

there should be a role system similar to eve, where members of a corporation must be given permission to enter PC by directors

Ain't happening until next Sony patch most likely which is an atagonizing 3 months.

Fix your issue now and survive the next 3 months.

Or die a slow death due to back stabbing and lax security in that time.

Choice is yours. Adapt or Die.

+ 1.

This game is an extension of EVE, thus the general backstabbing and plotting makes sense, as does implementing roles to stop it destroying corps with little effort.

I haven't read in-depth about this sabotage, but I see the problem. Honestly let's get it out in the open right now:

Planetary Conquest was never intended for the general populace.

It's for competitive, hardcore players.

I agree. In fact I read through the entire thread with the express intention of responding to this from the first page:

Planetary Conquest right now is indeed a game for a few elite players. If you stagger your district vulnerability periods there's essentially no reason to have more than eight people in your official "PC" squad. But I think that's a temporary thing, a product of the small battle sizes DUST is currently restricted to. CCP claims they've done internal testing with as many as 256 people in a battle (I'm not sure if that's each team or the sum total of both, but I'd wager it's the latter) so I'm fairly confident the intention is to increase battle size drastically over the course of the game's life span. When you can field a team of over 100 people it's not going to be realistic to keep PC restricted to your 1337 haxxor try-hard elite few. That's when the rest of us get to join in on the fun!

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Looks like some folks are going to have to work on their gun game. :)

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Tough luck!

Thanks to the "tactics" employed by some upstanding corps, and individuals, YOU, as a new player, will be left without a serious corp.

Here's why. Players posing as corp members jumping into Planetary Conquest (PC) games, and inviting their lil buddiez along to team kill and just be a pain in the arse for the unfortunate corp they're sabotaging.

So, corps that openly recruited people, and helping out new guys with the game, won't be participating in PC due to the fact that they might be sabotaged. So, unfortunate corps like DUST University, got their district(s) taken away cuz of this tactic. Even if they wanted to continue in PC, there's no guarantees that history won't repeat itself.

Now, I can appreciate the fact that this is a built in mechanic, and people are using whatever tools that are made available to get the upper hand. Cool. I can go with that....but then I'll bring up the whole AFK SP farming issue that people have so much tears about.

It's an in game mechanic that people are using to gain an advantage.

Back to my argument. So as directors or a CEO, people have allot of power in the corp. They can take funds, kick people, and basically shut down a corp.

My question is, how can these people, who are in charge of an army of hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of people, not have the power to kick people from the battle?

Please keep your reply as none trollage as possible ...tryna have a serious discussion here. Merci.

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Better solution in the meantime since it is likely going to take a major Sony patch to 'resolve' the issue.

Make an alt corp move all the grunts to that corp and keep all the squad leaders in your current, that way the only way they can get into PC is invites from the main corp's squad leaders only. Use a combined channel to announce times and call outs on inbound or use your forums. Grunt corp does no PC itself what so ever.

Anyone that gives trouble you boot em out.

I swear some of you FPSers would be smarter than that and beat me to the solution.

As the rules in New Eden are:

1. If you cannot afford to do it again, do not do it
2. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
3. If you cannot defend it, you certainly do not deserve it!

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Lol @ a few weeks. I guess adding a kick function and assigning roles is a month long job.

lol it's a little more complicated than that

Theres this wonderful post by a dev over on the EVE forums somewhere outling the path to adding new content and it takes time.

Would you rather have a "patch" now that is so buggy it makes things worse or wait a few weeks to get a patch that actually works?

Create a Team Leader or General role. Like IRL he can remove a player from the Team and deny them access to the clone reserves at any time. In barge or on the field. Problem solved. No need to kick the player or deny them access to the field or even put them on the other team.

The value of the spy would then be in how well they can hide their allegiance not how many times they can suicide.

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

Ain't happening until next Sony patch most likely which is an atagonizing 3 months.

Fix your issue now and survive the next 3 months.

Or die a slow death due to back stabbing and lax security in that time.

Choice is yours. Adapt or Die.

Much like the "everybody's running proto" thing, this is a problem that will solve itself. Everybody, everybody who is participating in PC is new at it, be they CEO, director, soldier, spy. The directors and CEOs are going to get better at operational security and counter-intelligence, and the successful corps will find the right balance and succeed, while the unsuccessful ones will pursue solutions that are less effective and they will fade from PC.

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

@My fellow Merc and EVE players.
Quoting New Eden doctrine/catch phrases in response it an incomplete mechanic is both inaccurate and short sighted. Adapting to the effects and changes within the sandbox is one thing. Just like learning that in New Eden you won't have your hand held to keep you from making mistakes. But that's not equivalent to being unable to manage your assets/resources/corp because the game client lacks the features to permit it at present.
QQ over losing your faction fit Cap because you jumped into OMS uninvited? Yeah HTFU.
Point out that an unfinished mechanic is unfinished and exploitable? That simply needs addressed and phrases/attitudes applied to matters internal to the sandbox aren't really appropriate.

0.02 ISK
Cross

I don't know what this has to do with CEO's and Directors not having the power to choose who fights in battles

Nobody is arguing that spies are the problem, the problem is the lack of power to control anything. CEO / Director has no power to choose the team, no power to kick from battle.

Operational security has nothing to do with a broken mechanic that's being exploited.

I'm not a CEO or director, and have never been (heck, I'm not even in a real corp at the moment), but I think CEOs and directors are not helpless to stop spies while we wait for finer control over individual battles. If an order of battle is drawn up ahead of time, with all participants knowing their squads and squad leaders, any deviation from the plan can be immediately spotted and the spy's squad filled by corp members before he or she can bring in more saboteurs. The squad leaders can be selected from among trusted individuals; and if a spy is appointed, then that's just good tradecraft--you can't win every battle (except, apparently, for STB and a few other corps who have been kicking it, I suppose).

Just my own 2 ISK.

don't think you understand how it works. CEO's and directors have no power in who gets into matches. I don't know how assigning squad leaders would magically stop people from joining a PC game and inviting outsiders.

The problem is this whole sabotage thing is WAY too easy.

Join corp > join PC game > invite friends

That's it. People call that spy work? lol

I guess I fail at explaining. If everybody in the corp knows what's supposed to happen (who's supposed to be squad lead, who's in which squad), then they'll all be able to keep an eye out for people who deviate from the plan.

So if everybody in the corp is on board, then the sabotage thing should go

Join corp -> join PC game -> create a squad -> have squad filled by loyal corp members

It does take some communication and coordination. It's not perfect, but it's not nothing.

I guess I fail at explaining. If everybody in the corp knows what's supposed to happen (who's supposed to be squad lead, who's in which squad), then they'll all be able to keep an eye out for people who deviate from the plan.

So if everybody in the corp is on board, then the sabotage thing should go

Join corp -> join PC game -> create a squad -> have squad filled by loyal corp members

It does take some communication and coordination. It's not perfect, but it's not nothing.

...and others are going to have to work on their counterintelligence.

Even with the changes, CCP aren't going to be negating the value of spies. If anything spies will be MORE valuable in future than they are now. And that means they'll be more dangerous, and people will need to be more vigilant.