https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78868&find=unread

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79008&find=unread

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79174&find=unread

^ These fine examples above are what I am talking about.

Playing the game beyond the rules established, playing the game more than the game intended.

Fitting balance numbers are considered part of the game as they all wind up effecting numbers on the field when it comes to shooting each other.

Getting people to back stab your supposed best friend, causing immeasurable damage well beyond DPS numbers an AR can put out in a million life times. Deleting your corp or booting the CEO out in a hostile take over and getting it pitted into a war it cannot win nor stop.

Watching your little empire crumble because you trusted the wrong guy.

Then getting your revenge....

This is meta-gaming. You are all playing it and those most unaware of it are pawns on the board.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

we can destroy your corporation in PC. make you hate this game.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

Only if you know what corporation I belong too can you destroy it.

There's an MMO called EVE Online. Perhaps you've heard of it? By many accounts it is a terrible game. It's PVE is predictable, and unengaging to the point that automation is seen in some cases as a requirement. It's PVP consists of hours of intense boredom punctuated by moments of extreme excitement. And yet, in spite of this, it has persevered. In fact, it has flourished because of one of the strongest player driven meta-games and player driven narratives on the market. If that doesn't interest you then you best get out, because I'd rather see dust burn than turn into another run of the mill sub-par call of duty clone.

I need people like you around - how else am I going to farm like by being awesome in comparison? :D

I play Eve. Thank you very much!

CCP said this game is newbie friendly. How can something that has this extensive meta gaming be newbie friendly? BS. The ratings say it all. Horribad reviews.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

Eve has an extensive meta game and is completely newbie friendly. I even made a guide. https://dpwf7uc3ns479.cloudfront.net/newbie-guide-final-2013.pdf

There's an MMO called EVE Online. Perhaps you've heard of it? By many accounts it is a terrible game. It's PVE is predictable, and unengaging to the point that automation is seen in some cases as a requirement. It's PVP consists of hours of intense boredom punctuated by moments of extreme excitement. And yet, in spite of this, it has persevered. In fact, it has flourished because of one of the strongest player driven meta-games and player driven narratives on the market. If that doesn't interest you then you best get out, because I'd rather see dust burn than turn into another run of the mill sub-par call of duty clone.

Eve has an extensive meta game and is completely newbie friendly. I even made a guide. https://dpwf7uc3ns479.cloudfront.net/newbie-guide-final-2013.pdf

Also I've been doing nothing but making this game Newbie friendly for the roughly 300 neck beards under my care who've joined in the last two weeks. Hard to get much newer than that, we have to teach them which end of the rifle shoots try hard MAG burnouts.

Eve has an extensive meta game and is completely newbie friendly. I even made a guide. https://dpwf7uc3ns479.cloudfront.net/newbie-guide-final-2013.pdf

Also I've been doing nothing but making this game Newbie friendly for the roughly 300 neck beards under my care who've joined in the last two weeks. Hard to get much newer than that, we have to teach them which end of the rifle shoots try hard MAG burnouts.

Mind if I barrow? This is another example of meta gaming.

We released it publicly for the good of the community so go right ahead.
http://themittani.com/features/goonswarm-newbie-guide-released

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

Thank you for your work and dedication.

I don't see any reason for people in FPS mode to give a rats arse whether there is meta gaming going on... it doesn't show up unless they go looking for it.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

Man...I am inclined to agree with you. I can understand if players abuse mechanics in the game to do certain things but when the devs deliberately create mechanics for that sole purpose......then I have a problem with it. Especially, when the gameplay and other things needs more attention than thinking of ways to allow people to infiltrate and spy on each other.

So, +1 to you.....I'd rather read or participate in threads where two players or two corps are going at each other (feeling that one is better than the other) as opposed to reading about leaked meetings and teamkilling and other Richard Simmons sort of ****. I want to see rivalries brewing instead of all of this backwall non-aggression pacts. I mean, a few friends here and there is ok but when everyone is trying to get along then fights will be against the same corps and will get dull.

Corps should shy away from attacking another corp because they are afraid of retaliation rather than not attacking because of agreements.

Usually what happens is that it finds you instead though.

What if Mr. Smith hired you on the grounds that your squad is like the best ever, it has never lost in any contract it has been assigned. You agreed to what seems to be reasonable terms which came with collateral in case you fail Mr. Smith would be compensated a bit. The way would recover the collatoral and additional pay out at the success of the defense contract. Mr. Smith promised back up support from both Eve and Dust players.

You and your squad join the match and something seems off. Mr Smith boys charge each other to the center of the field but not to shoot each other. Instead they turn around and they all point their guns at your squad. Friendly eve online ships start appearing overhead and instead of targeting the enemies they are targeting your squad.

Your collateral held hostage for failure or abandonment and vastly outnumbered you may find yourself heavily screwed out of this deal if you don't turn it around but that is impossible without needing back up on your own and it seems that Mr. Smith is hell bent on breaking your pristine record.

That's what the forums are for. It will let out the QQing and they can ask CCP to institute new rules... and then eventually get over their loss (or maybe decide to get even).

CCP doesn't try to allow for mechanics that allow meta-gaming abuse. Majority of the meta gaming in Eve is usually at the fault of the players for allowing it to happen.

What if CCP told you it is part of the game?

Stealing the entire corp wallet and armory is something CCP is not going to reimburse players for

I've seen them make posts that support this sort of behavior in Dust. Then follow it with, "Welcome to New Eden". Why would they implement friendly fire in corp matches? Why not add a kick button for PC to kick people who were uninvited to matches

Hey, Ydubbs? You know those phrases thrown around on these forums? You know, "adapt or die" and "HTFU"? Well, they were never meant to be used for nerfs. No, they were originally created in response to meta-gaming. "Oh no, he stole my ore!" "HTFU".

"Oh no! Blueberry stole my tank and used it to team kill! HTFU?"

The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle.

That's some meta game..... in depth stuff.

The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle.

That's some meta game..... in depth stuff.

This is so hilariously wrong. Scamming, infiltration, and spycraft in EVE are easy if you know what you're doing.I know a man who took a corp out in the four hours that CCP gives you to find a plex in your hangar to resubscribe after letting an account lapse. He logged in, didn't find anything worth selling, so he started convoing people. Got someone to pay for his plex, and proceeded to take them for everything they had.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

CCP doesn't try to allow for mechanics that allow meta-gaming abuse. Majority of the meta gaming in Eve is usually at the fault of the players for allowing it to happen.

What Dust and CEOs alike need to do is make the rewards for being loyal higher than the fun factor of trolling your own team. Meta game is what I came for, without it, Dust is just your average shooter with worse graphics and a half assed NPC marketplace. I love all this spy stuff and teamkilling, but when anyone can do it without consequence, it becomes stupid. In Dust, you can't place bounties, can't go after people, and can't really check identities. It's just too easy.

The lines between reality and fiction for you have crossed IMHO. I picture as the person who thinks Eve is real. You are way too much involved in this dude. Try tetris for a change.

+1

My issue is not with the metegame, That is one of the things that first drew me to this game. My prblem is that it is too easy right now.

My issue is the overemphasis on the metagame and not the actual gameplay. It is much more entertaining to watch corps argue about who is better and have that rivalry build over a little time. And then when both corps are tired of talking and dodging, they finally battle it out.

That is more exciting than, "Hey guys, I joined your corp and teamkilled everyone".

I respectfully disagree.

Two corps talk a lot of crap then fight it out. The loser walks away licking their wounds and thinking "Man we didn't win but we gave it our all." It's like 2 little kids fighting, they usually end up friends after the fight.

With this tactic that is being employed, the loser suffers a more humiliating defeat, they never have a chance to say "We gave it out best." Instead they're left saying "Those dicks never even gave us a chance omg I wish we could murder them, those dirty rotten bastards." To most victors, this is a far more enjoyable outcome

IWS you are absolutely useless as a CPM. All you do is say "I think this should be buffed: and "I think that should be nerfed" without actually participating in the game.

The lines between reality and fiction for you have crossed IMHO. I picture as the person who thinks Eve is real. You are way too much involved in this dude. Try tetris for a change.

lol this thread makes today's spy episode seem like some super long-termed event. A friend backstabbed by the one he could trust ;O! lol...someone accepted someone this morning without approval and it happened because CEOs can't control who has access to matches (which...I remind you...even BF3 has). But **** there's no drama there!

lolbullshit

I have a book recommendation for you, it's by a man named Frankfurt called On Bullshit

Pfft, PC battles are the least damaging thing they can do. Low investment low damage. You should be worried about the guy recommending fixes to prevent this in the corp and when you brought him into the fold. I mean wouldn't it be odd that he is never online when its time for PC battles?

lol who are you trying to fool IWS? The person bragged about it on the forums. EVE and dotlan sources show the membership's existence and departure within a 24 hr period! A decent attempt would have been to at least try what you're making it sound like.

I get the point behind meta gaming....I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise, but seriously...there's a difference between a lack of control over your own corps activities and a free-range 90s-style game where there's no real leadership power.

If BF3 can game-match a platoon for a Clan/Corp better than Dust, then I'm honestly not as impressed as I was with the leadership function/skillset.

What tools are those?

What tools are those?

Feel free to leave - META is why this game rocks - not the ****** FPS. You think any of us stayed because the FPS is awesome? Don't kid yourself.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

This recent wave of "spies" isn't a high-level example of what the metagame can (and will) turn into.

It's a starting point for a sabotage Corp to get their name into the public eye as "the ones who did it first". And they didn't do a great job, so this fuss will die down soon enough, but they've shown people who didn't see it coming (poor fools) what to expect in future, and opened the doors for others to do it right.

I, for one, am looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Kick everyone out of the main PC corp leave only your trusted squad leaders, get one of your directors to make a isk transfer alt and setup an secondary 'Grunt' Corp.

Use the secondary corp to pull invites from. Keep roster of folks in second corp track their behavior and performance and trust levels. People in the PC squad leader corp will be the only ones able to pull folks from the grunt corp into planetary conquest since grunt corp will not be on the map at all.

Its pretty simple stupid, prevent random squads of strangers at least, unless you are really bad at recruiting you shouldn't get more than 3 turn coats and if you keep filtering them out that should all go away.

I respectfully disagree.

Two corps talk a lot of crap then fight it out. The loser walks away licking their wounds and thinking "Man we didn't win but we gave it our all." It's like 2 little kids fighting, they usually end up friends after the fight.

With this tactic that is being employed, the loser suffers a more humiliating defeat, they never have a chance to say "We gave it out best." Instead they're left saying "Those dicks never even gave us a chance omg I wish we could murder them, those dirty rotten bastards." To most victors, this is a far more enjoyable outcome

Meta-gaming, the thing politicians would enjoy most if they played video games. Where somebody is rewarded and praised for lying, stealing, deceiving, manipulating and betraying trust for their (or their groups) own good or agenda.

When you apply it to real life, I guess the king of meta-gaming is the current US administration

Whole reason why I linked a few propaganda posters too.

Meta-gaming, the thing politicians would enjoy most if they played video games. Where somebody is rewarded and praised for lying, stealing, deceiving, manipulating and betraying trust for their (or their groups) own good or agenda.

When you apply it to real life, I guess the king of meta-gaming is the current US administration

The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle.

That's some meta game..... in depth stuff.

Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar.

Let's say that you infiltrate, spy, manage to build rank and kick everyone out of the corp and steal ISK. All that you've done is set them back a little. Some people may leave the corp but the people that helped build the corp, the core members will stay and/or rebuild. You can steal all of their ISK but they will just start over and get back to where they were. Meanwhile, you are getting some likes on the forums for outing them.

Scenario 2 could be that you infiltrate them and teamkill them or sabotage their battle. Worst case scenario is that they lose that battle or that district. But if they are better than their opponents, they will launch an attack and reclaim the district. You can always bounce back from an infiltration.

lol @ didn't see it coming... their have been posts for months about it. Everyone knew this would be abused at some point. I'm in PC to fight tough matches. Not sit in the enemy MCC and cook grenades on myself to take planets.

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Let's say that you infiltrate, spy, manage to build rank and kick everyone out of the corp and steal ISK. All that you've done is set them back a little. Some people may leave the corp but the people that helped build the corp, the core members will stay and/or rebuild. You can steal all of their ISK but they will just start over and get back to where they were. Meanwhile, you are getting some likes on the forums for outing them.

Scenario 2 could be that you infiltrate them and teamkill them or sabotage their battle. Worst case scenario is that they lose that battle or that district. But if they are better than their opponents, they will launch an attack and reclaim the district. You can always bounce back from an infiltration.

But you want to know what is more damaging than that? Corp A and Corp B talking smack to each other so then they decide to battle it out finally. Corp A beats B...B wants revenge so they battle again and Corp A smacks them again. And a third and 4th time. After awhile, Corp B is going to realize that they are just embarassing themselves because they can not defeat Corp A and they will just stop their campaign. Corp B is now demoralized.

This recent wave of "spies" isn't a high-level example of what the metagame can (and will) turn into.

It's a starting point for a sabotage Corp to get their name into the public eye as "the ones who did it first". And they didn't do a great job, so this fuss will die down soon enough, but they've shown people who didn't see it coming (poor fools) what to expect in future, and opened the doors for others to do it right.

I, for one, am looking forward to seeing where this goes.