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Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1266	Posted - 2013.05.19 01:47:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Banned From Forums wrote: Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar. Man...I am inclined to agree with you. I can understand if players abuse mechanics in the game to do certain things but when the devs deliberately create mechanics for that sole purpose......then I have a problem with it. Especially, when the gameplay and other things needs more attention than thinking of ways to allow people to infiltrate and spy on each other. So, +1 to you.....I'd rather read or participate in threads where two players or two corps are going at each other (feeling that one is better than the other) as opposed to reading about leaked meetings and teamkilling and other Richard Simmons sort of ****. I want to see rivalries brewing instead of all of this backwall non-aggression pacts. I mean, a few friends here and there is ok but when everyone is trying to get along then fights will be against the same corps and will get dull. Corps should shy away from attacking another corp because they are afraid of retaliation rather than not attacking because of agreements. CCP doesn't try to allow for mechanics that allow meta-gaming abuse. Majority of the meta gaming in Eve is usually at the fault of the players for allowing it to happen. I've seen them make posts that support this sort of behavior in Dust. Then follow it with, "Welcome to New Eden". Why would they implement friendly fire in corp matches? Why not add a kick button for PC to kick people who were uninvited to matches
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 297	Posted - 2013.05.19 01:48:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: What if CCP told you it is part of the game? Stealing the entire corp wallet and armory is something CCP is not going to reimburse players for I didn't suggest CCP would do anything... I come from the EVE side of the game.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 560	Posted - 2013.05.19 01:50:00 - [33] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I've seen them make posts that support this sort of behavior in Dust. Then follow it with, "Welcome to New Eden". Why would they implement friendly fire in corp matches? Why not add a kick button for PC to kick people who were uninvited to matches Hey, Ydubbs? You know those phrases thrown around on these forums? You know, "adapt or die" and "HTFU"? Well, they were never meant to be used for nerfs. No, they were originally created in response to meta-gaming. "Oh no, he stole my ore!" "HTFU".
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4355	Posted - 2013.05.19 01:51:00 - [34] - Quote Laheon wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I've seen them make posts that support this sort of behavior in Dust. Then follow it with, "Welcome to New Eden". Why would they implement friendly fire in corp matches? Why not add a kick button for PC to kick people who were uninvited to matches Hey, Ydubbs? You know those phrases thrown around on these forums? You know, "adapt or die" and "HTFU"? Well, they were never meant to be used for nerfs. No, they were originally created in response to meta-gaming. "Oh no, he stole my ore!" "HTFU". "Oh no! Blueberry stole my tank and used it to team kill! HTFU?"
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 223	Posted - 2013.05.19 02:14:00 - [35] - Quote The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after they que into battle. That's some meta game..... in depth stuff.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 560	Posted - 2013.05.19 02:18:00 - [36] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: "Oh no! Blueberry stole my tank and used it to team kill! HTFU?" Indeed. I'm going to need to do that someday and say "Oops, thought you were a red". Probably should have posted this on my alt...
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 287	Posted - 2013.05.19 02:27:00 - [37] - Quote What Dust and CEOs alike need to do is make the rewards for being loyal higher than the fun factor of trolling your own team. Meta game is what I came for, without it, Dust is just your average shooter with worse graphics and a half assed NPC marketplace. I love all this spy stuff and teamkilling, but when anyone can do it without consequence, it becomes stupid. In Dust, you can't place bounties, can't go after people, and can't really check identities. It's just too easy.
Samahiel Goonfeet 13	Posted - 2013.05.19 02:41:00 - [38] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle. That's some meta game..... in depth stuff. This is so hilariously wrong. Scamming, infiltration, and spycraft in EVE are easy if you know what you're doing.I know a man who took a corp out in the four hours that CCP gives you to find a plex in your hangar to resubscribe after letting an account lapse. He logged in, didn't find anything worth selling, so he started convoing people. Got someone to pay for his plex, and proceeded to take them for everything they had.
MrBlobz G I A N T EoN. 5	Posted - 2013.05.19 02:53:00 - [39] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle. That's some meta game..... in depth stuff. +1 My issue is not with the metegame, That is one of the things that first drew me to this game. My prblem is that it is too easy right now.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 224	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:00:00 - [40] - Quote Samahiel wrote: Deluxe Edition wrote: The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle. That's some meta game..... in depth stuff. This is so hilariously wrong. Scamming, infiltration, and spycraft in EVE are easy if you know what you're doing.I know a man who took a corp out in the four hours that CCP gives you to find a plex in your hangar to resubscribe after letting an account lapse. He logged in, didn't find anything worth selling, so he started convoing people. Got someone to pay for his plex, and proceeded to take them for everything they had. So in EvE if I join a corp in the CFC do I automatically have the ability to ensure 1/3 of the CFC is unable undock form up during a CTA and replace that portion of the fleet with enemy ships? Cause if thats not the case then I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 63	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:15:00 - [41] - Quote I don't think their should be any way to stop these incidents once they've began, when I saw the dust uni post this morning, biggest smile appeared on my face, this is the **** I want to see happening. Allowing human into the world of computers is brilliant, won't find more bugs or glitches than in the players that make this game. Spies, espionage, sabotage, back stabbing, beautiful sight. I hope CCP read the forums today and grinned, game would die if everything was left to the battlefields.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3086	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:17:00 - [42] - Quote ITT: IWS laughs, other good DUSTers laugh, a few derps... well, derp and complain that DUST is bad because of exactly the reasons it's awesome.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 253	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:22:00 - [43] - Quote Banned From Forums wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78868&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79008&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79174&find=unread ^ These fine examples above are what I am talking about. Playing the game beyond the rules established, playing the game more than the game intended. Fitting balance numbers are considered part of the game as they all wind up effecting numbers on the field when it comes to shooting each other. Getting people to back stab your supposed best friend, causing immeasurable damage well beyond DPS numbers an AR can put out in a million life times. Deleting your corp or booting the CEO out in a hostile take over and getting it pitted into a war it cannot win nor stop. Watching your little empire crumble because you trusted the wrong guy. Then getting your revenge.... This is meta-gaming. You are all playing it and those most unaware of it are pawns on the board. Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar. The meta gaming wont mean **** to the average player, but it WILL mean something to the players that actually matter. Someone makes a poster that pisses an alliance leader off??? you can expect some war decs the next day.
Banned From Forums Shining Flame Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:32:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP doesn't try to allow for mechanics that allow meta-gaming abuse. Majority of the meta gaming in Eve is usually at the fault of the players for allowing it to happen. IWS you are absolutely useless as a CPM. All you do is say "I think this should be buffed: and "I think that should be nerfed" without actually participating in the game. The lines between reality and fiction for you have crossed IMHO. I picture as the person who thinks Eve is real. You are way too much involved in this dude. Try tetris for a change.
Banned From Forums Shining Flame Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:35:00 - [45] - Quote slypie11 wrote: What Dust and CEOs alike need to do is make the rewards for being loyal higher than the fun factor of trolling your own team. Meta game is what I came for, without it, Dust is just your average shooter with worse graphics and a half assed NPC marketplace. I love all this spy stuff and teamkilling, but when anyone can do it without consequence, it becomes stupid. In Dust, you can't place bounties, can't go after people, and can't really check identities. It's just too easy. Exactly. The way this game is designed is that its way to easy to infiltrate organizations. We were warned against Sha Kha plans a long time ago. The dude tries to stay away from the forums but he cant control his ego. He is so smitten by the mitten that he wants to be like him. Meanwhile;- mittens doesn't give a kitten about Dust.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 299	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:44:00 - [46] - Quote Banned From Forums wrote: The lines between reality and fiction for you have crossed IMHO. I picture as the person who thinks Eve is real. You are way too much involved in this dude. Try tetris for a change. I think most of us have more than enough reality in our lives...
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1267	Posted - 2013.05.19 03:51:00 - [47] - Quote MrBlobz wrote: Deluxe Edition wrote: The difference is in EvE it takes Months if not years to develop a spy and infiltrate a corp having to get past API searches and once your in the corp you have to socialize and convince the leadership to give you role to access corp isk and hangers. In dust all you have to do is get your application accepted and then you can sabotage every corp match without ever being detected by pulling the plug on their internet after queing and enemy force into battle. That's some meta game..... in depth stuff. +1 My issue is not with the metegame, That is one of the things that first drew me to this game. My prblem is that it is too easy right now. My issue is the overemphasis on the metagame and not the actual gameplay. It is much more entertaining to watch corps argue about who is better and have that rivalry build over a little time. And then when both corps are tired of talking and dodging, they finally battle it out. That is more exciting than, "Hey guys, I joined your corp and teamkilled everyone".
sammus420 Goonfeet 65	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:16:00 - [48] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: My issue is the overemphasis on the metagame and not the actual gameplay. It is much more entertaining to watch corps argue about who is better and have that rivalry build over a little time. And then when both corps are tired of talking and dodging, they finally battle it out. That is more exciting than, "Hey guys, I joined your corp and teamkilled everyone". I respectfully disagree. Two corps talk a lot of crap then fight it out. The loser walks away licking their wounds and thinking "Man we didn't win but we gave it our all." It's like 2 little kids fighting, they usually end up friends after the fight. With this tactic that is being employed, the loser suffers a more humiliating defeat, they never have a chance to say "We gave it out best." Instead they're left saying "Those dicks never even gave us a chance omg I wish we could murder them, those dirty rotten bastards." To most victors, this is a far more enjoyable outcome
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4375	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:18:00 - [49] - Quote sammus420 wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: My issue is the overemphasis on the metagame and not the actual gameplay. It is much more entertaining to watch corps argue about who is better and have that rivalry build over a little time. And then when both corps are tired of talking and dodging, they finally battle it out. That is more exciting than, "Hey guys, I joined your corp and teamkilled everyone". I respectfully disagree. Two corps talk a lot of crap then fight it out. The loser walks away licking their wounds and thinking "Man we didn't win but we gave it our all." It's like 2 little kids fighting, they usually end up friends after the fight. With this tactic that is being employed, the loser suffers a more humiliating defeat, they never have a chance to say "We gave it out best." Instead they're left saying "Those dicks never even gave us a chance omg I wish we could murder them, those dirty rotten bastards." To most victors, this is a far more enjoyable outcome Isn't this how Guiding Hand Social Club got started with the members of the group being hired by the other side squashed by the military might of the time?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4375	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:20:00 - [50] - Quote Banned From Forums wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP doesn't try to allow for mechanics that allow meta-gaming abuse. Majority of the meta gaming in Eve is usually at the fault of the players for allowing it to happen. IWS you are absolutely useless as a CPM. All you do is say "I think this should be buffed: and "I think that should be nerfed" without actually participating in the game. The lines between reality and fiction for you have crossed IMHO. I picture as the person who thinks Eve is real. You are way too much involved in this dude. Try tetris for a change. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhwGEa7507g

Grezkev The Red Guards EoN. 268	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:22:00 - [51] - Quote lol this thread makes today's spy episode seem like some super long-termed event. A friend backstabbed by the one he could trust ;O! lol...someone accepted someone this morning without approval and it happened. But **** there's no drama there! lolbullshit I have a book recommendation for you, it's by a man named Frankfurt called On Bullshit
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4375	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:27:00 - [52] - Quote Grezkev wrote: lol this thread makes today's spy episode seem like some super long-termed event. A friend backstabbed by the one he could trust ;O! lol...someone accepted someone this morning without approval and it happened because CEOs can't control who has access to matches (which...I remind you...even BF3 has). But **** there's no drama there! lolbullshit I have a book recommendation for you, it's by a man named Frankfurt called On Bullshit Pfft, PC battles are the least damaging thing they can do. Low investment low damage. You should be worried about the guy recommending fixes to prevent this in the corp and when you brought him into the fold. I mean wouldn't it be odd that he is never online when its time for PC battles?
Grezkev The Red Guards EoN. 268	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:33:00 - [53] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Grezkev wrote: lol this thread makes today's spy episode seem like some super long-termed event. A friend backstabbed by the one he could trust ;O! lol...someone accepted someone this morning without approval and it happened because CEOs can't control who has access to matches (which...I remind you...even BF3 has). But **** there's no drama there! lolbullshit I have a book recommendation for you, it's by a man named Frankfurt called On Bullshit Pfft, PC battles are the least damaging thing they can do. Low investment low damage. You should be worried about the guy recommending fixes to prevent this in the corp and when you brought him into the fold. I mean wouldn't it be odd that he is never online when its time for PC battles? lol who are you trying to fool IWS? The person bragged about it on the forums. EVE and dotlan sources show the membership's existence and departure within a 24 hr period! A decent attempt would have been to at least try what you're making it sound like. I get the point behind meta gaming....I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise, but seriously...there's a difference between a lack of control over your own corps activities and a free-range 90s-style game where there's no real leadership power. If BF3 can game-match a platoon for a Clan/Corp better than Dust, then I'm honestly not as impressed as I was with the leadership function/skillset.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4375	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:37:00 - [54] - Quote Grezkev wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Grezkev wrote: lol this thread makes today's spy episode seem like some super long-termed event. A friend backstabbed by the one he could trust ;O! lol...someone accepted someone this morning without approval and it happened because CEOs can't control who has access to matches (which...I remind you...even BF3 has). But **** there's no drama there! lolbullshit I have a book recommendation for you, it's by a man named Frankfurt called On Bullshit Pfft, PC battles are the least damaging thing they can do. Low investment low damage. You should be worried about the guy recommending fixes to prevent this in the corp and when you brought him into the fold. I mean wouldn't it be odd that he is never online when its time for PC battles? lol who are you trying to fool IWS? The person bragged about it on the forums. EVE and dotlan sources show the membership's existence and departure within a 24 hr period! A decent attempt would have been to at least try what you're making it sound like. I get the point behind meta gaming....I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise, but seriously...there's a difference between a lack of control over your own corps activities and a free-range 90s-style game where there's no real leadership power. If BF3 can game-match a platoon for a Clan/Corp better than Dust, then I'm honestly not as impressed as I was with the leadership function/skillset. Well there are tools to resolve the issue until ingame means are made available, I am surprised nobody is rushing mad to use them.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:41:00 - [55] - Quote What tools are those?
sammus420 Goonfeet 65	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:41:00 - [56] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: What tools are those? Holding corps first and foremost.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4376	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:44:00 - [57] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: What tools are those? Kick everyone out of the main PC corp leave only your trusted squad leaders, get one of your directors to make a isk transfer alt and setup an secondary 'Grunt' Corp. Use the secondary corp to pull invites from. Keep roster of folks in second corp track their behavior and performance and trust levels. People in the PC squad leader corp will be the only ones able to pull folks from the grunt corp into planetary conquest since grunt corp will not be on the map at all. Its pretty simple stupid, prevent random squads of strangers at least, unless you are really bad at recruiting you shouldn't get more than 3 turn coats and if you keep filtering them out that should all go away.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 256	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:48:00 - [58] - Quote Banned From Forums wrote: SoTa ReGnUM PoP wrote: Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar. Feel free to leave - META is why this game rocks - not the **** FPS. You think any of us stayed because the FPS is awesome? Don't kid yourself. MAke me. I can *** and moan as much as I want and there is not a thing you can do about it. [/quote] Another example why unlimited free accounts is bad.
tribal wyvern ZionTCD Unclaimed. 906	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:52:00 - [59] - Quote Banned From Forums wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78868&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79008&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79174&find=unread ^ These fine examples above are what I am talking about. Playing the game beyond the rules established, playing the game more than the game intended. Fitting balance numbers are considered part of the game as they all wind up effecting numbers on the field when it comes to shooting each other. Getting people to back stab your supposed best friend, causing immeasurable damage well beyond DPS numbers an AR can put out in a million life times. Deleting your corp or booting the CEO out in a hostile take over and getting it pitted into a war it cannot win nor stop. Watching your little empire crumble because you trusted the wrong guy. Then getting your revenge.... This is meta-gaming. You are all playing it and those most unaware of it are pawns on the board. Kitten Meta gaming. If CCP wants to have meta gaming in a FPS they can say goodbye to Dust. FPS don't like meta gaming. They like shooting people in the face. Dust reviews across the board have been subpar. Well if people don't like meta gaming in an fps they can leave, but for a game where meta gaming is supposedly not welcome.......dust seems to have a loyal community that's been around since closed beta.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3091	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:53:00 - [60] - Quote This recent wave of "spies" isn't a high-level example of what the metagame can (and will) turn into. It's a starting point for a sabotage Corp to get their name into the public eye as "the ones who did it first". And they didn't do a great job, so this fuss will die down soon enough, but they've shown people who didn't see it coming (poor fools) what to expect in future, and opened the doors for others to do it right. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing where this goes.



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