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Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
16
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Posted - 2013.05.21 23:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Actually, if the Amarr have great laser cooling technology for ships, wouldn't it be even better for guns? It's harder to get rid of heat in space than in an atmosphere.
Correct. Cooling in space would be restricted to radiation. On the surface you could use convection and conduction as well, both of which would tend to transfer heat more quickly. |
H arpoon
WarRavens
51
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Posted - 2013.05.22 00:29:00 -
[62] - Quote
I do just fine with the advanced SCR. I often have a @+ KDR and am usually near the top in WP too. The only things that kills me are snipers, shotgunners, the occasional Ishukone Nova Knifer, and the TARs. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
302
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Posted - 2013.05.22 04:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
Bump |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
80
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Posted - 2013.05.22 05:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Actually, if the Amarr have great laser cooling technology for ships, wouldn't it be even better for guns? It's harder to get rid of heat in space than in an atmosphere. Correct. Cooling in space would be restricted to radiation. On the surface you could use convection and conduction as well, both of which would tend to transfer heat more quickly. Woot thermodynamics talk!
Radiation cooling as a heat transfer can also work with a large surface area, like say a giant shelled spaceship. I always wondered why Amarran ships were shaped like that. But yeah most certainly when possible convention is the fastest way to go of the three. |
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
238
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Posted - 2013.05.22 07:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:So you're saying the weapon based on short-range Blaster tech was always meant to be more effective at mid-long range encounters than the weapon based around mid-long range Pulse Laser tech?
Seems legit. So much this.
I've played Gallente so I'm familiar with blasters; not so much Amarr, but I have heard when you get range, you can melt people with your lasers.
Anyways, I believe the Gallente Assault Rifle is similar to Blaster tech in EVE, while the Scrambler Rifle is similar to the Laser tech on Amarr ships in EVE (though admittedly I don't know if long range or short).
In any case isn't the optimals and range on lasers greater than the blasters?
EDIT: Never mind. Found this. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=834118#post834118 |
Clair de Lune
Procella Tempus General Tso's Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.05.23 05:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bump |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
344
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Posted - 2013.05.23 08:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
I'd figure laser weapons would generally have the range advantage on blasters. Rails are the ones I'd think come closer (or beat) lasers. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
305
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Posted - 2013.05.23 08:59:00 -
[68] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:So you're saying the weapon based on short-range Blaster tech was always meant to be more effective at mid-long range encounters than the weapon based around mid-long range Pulse Laser tech?
Seems legit. So much this. I've played Gallente so I'm familiar with blasters; not so much Amarr, but I have heard when you get range, you can melt people with your lasers. Anyways, I believe the Gallente Assault Rifle is similar to Blaster tech in EVE, while the Scrambler Rifle is similar to the Laser tech on Amarr ships in EVE (though admittedly I don't know if long range or short). In any case isn't the optimals and range on lasers greater than the blasters? EDIT: Never mind. Found this. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=834118#post834118
Yeah. And if you check the weapon ranges thread on the rookie training grounds section of the forums you can see that:
HMG and Assault SR have same optimal (30m).
SMG and Scrambler Pistol have same optimal as well (20m).
I don't think it's a coincidence. Scrambler technology (pulse) is meant to be for CQC and lower range than Blasters. Seems projectile technology is going the same route. Railgun, laser (beam) and missile should outrange the blaster. So if these are CCP's intentions I'm fine with the low range. But then an increase in DPS is necessary for balance, be it higher damage or ROF. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
100
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Posted - 2013.05.23 09:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vethosis wrote:We don't want this game to turn into SR 514
but TAR 514? |
Imp Smash
On The Brink CRONOS.
107
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Posted - 2013.05.23 09:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:I appreciate the credit to my thread, but I cant agree this is the fix the Scrambler needs. Damage is fine, as can be seen in my thread, its fairly balanced all around. The range is what needs fixing, as well as the ROF of the TAC AR.
Signed. This man knows his stuff and is fairly objective plus being eloquent and polite. The only flaw I can find with him or his reasoning is his alliance. You should come join us! |
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RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
184
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Posted - 2013.05.23 15:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:I appreciate the credit to my thread, but I cant agree this is the fix the Scrambler needs. Damage is fine, as can be seen in my thread, its fairly balanced all around. The range is what needs fixing, as well as the ROF of the TAC AR. Signed. This man knows his stuff and is fairly objective plus being eloquent and polite. The only flaw I can find with him or his reasoning is his alliance. You should come join us!
I appreciate the kind words, but you may want to talk to Jenza as to why Im not part of CRONOS. |
Imp Smash
On The Brink CRONOS.
108
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Posted - 2013.05.24 02:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
No thanks. I'm a tactician. I figure out use of resources. I leave politics to politicians. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
348
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Posted - 2013.05.24 02:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
The passive skill not helping the assault variant is another issue. A Heat build-up reduction skill would make more sense.
Pulse lasers ARE the shorter range range option between pulse & beam for Amarr in EVE, but they aren't CQC exactly.
Pulse Lasers are described as "Medium" range turrets, blasters are "Short" range turrets.
What does that mean in practical terms? Well, if we just look something like the Medium-sized turrets sets for both, Pulse lasers have an optimum range of about 12,000 meters, while Blasters have a range of about 3,000 meters. So, Pulse Lasers outrange blasters by about 4 to 1 (in EVE).
Anyway, better, head-reducing passive skill and a range bump would be great.
I get the feeling something like the TAC AR was more meant to be in the Rail Rifle set. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
306
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 03:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:The passive skill not helping the assault variant is another issue. A Heat build-up reduction skill would make more sense.
Pulse lasers ARE the shorter range range option between pulse & beam for Amarr in EVE, but they aren't CQC exactly.
Pulse Lasers are described as "Medium" range turrets, blasters are "Short" range turrets.
What does that mean in practical terms? Well, if we just look something like the Medium-sized turrets sets for both, Pulse lasers have an optimum range of about 12,000 meters, while Blasters have a range of about 3,000 meters. So, Pulse Lasers outrange blasters by about 4 to 1 (in EVE).
Anyway, better, head-reducing passive skill and a range bump would be great.
I get the feeling something like the TAC AR was more meant to be in the Rail Rifle set.
This makes sense. CCP why you don't do this?
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
352
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Posted - 2013.05.24 07:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:The passive skill not helping the assault variant is another issue. A Heat build-up reduction skill would make more sense.
Pulse lasers ARE the shorter range range option between pulse & beam for Amarr in EVE, but they aren't CQC exactly.
Pulse Lasers are described as "Medium" range turrets, blasters are "Short" range turrets.
What does that mean in practical terms? Well, if we just look something like the Medium-sized turrets sets for both, Pulse lasers have an optimum range of about 12,000 meters, while Blasters have a range of about 3,000 meters. So, Pulse Lasers outrange blasters by about 4 to 1 (in EVE).
Anyway, better, head-reducing passive skill and a range bump would be great.
I get the feeling something like the TAC AR was more meant to be in the Rail Rifle set. This makes sense. CCP why you don't do this?
The way they are about communication, they "may" be considering all sorts of changes that we just won't hear about until they make them. |
Jen Gelfling
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.24 13:08:00 -
[76] - Quote
+1 For a heat build reducing passive and sensible range. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
307
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 16:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
Bump |
drake sadani
Tacti-corp
44
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Posted - 2013.05.24 18:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
first of all being as useless on the battle field as i am i derive fun from the scrambler rifle . if you want to give it a slight and fair leg up give me a skill to reduce heat build up .
i own heavies and TAC gunners with it . because i can put a lot of half charged rounds on them when they pop out of cover . i can also in close give off a barrage of fire to back them up
i am a plus one for anyone who said heat management skill tree.
and just for kicks and giggles when i high charge it zoom me in just a tiny bit ^_^ |
cy6
Raging Pack of Homos
18
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Posted - 2013.05.24 18:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
I personally feel the regular semi-auto firing is fine at range, but the charge should reach farther |
Draco Cerberus
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
57
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Posted - 2013.05.24 19:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
Every weapon is OP in its optimal. If we hit everything with the nerf hammer pretty soon we'll only have nerf arrows to shoot at each other. Maybe it is all a matter of adapting to the situation and instead of running in front of the guy with the TAC rifle waving your overheating SR in his face you let it cool down before engaging him. |
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Draco Cerberus
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
57
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Posted - 2013.05.24 19:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
A small zoom on the SR would make a difference but I caution you not to ask for a reduction in heat build up. The heat build up is the only thing that balances this weapon vs the TAC AR. You can charge it up for more damage and this in itself is a very big reason to look at it as a superior weapon to the TAC AR. The superior rate of fire when compared to the TAC AR is also something that I see as a problem on a rifle with NO RECOIL. There is no adjustment needed when firing off a volley of shots at and individual, there is only a need to be concerned with heat buildup, which when managed correctly will never leave you waving your gun in the air to cool down. If a TAC AR user fires 10 rounds at a person, even with maxed out skills, they still need to adjust where their shots are going each time if they wish to hit the person. Not so with a scrambler rifle, you need only to keep an eye on the heat of the weapon while you keep your aim steady. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
185
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Posted - 2013.05.24 21:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:A small zoom on the SR would make a difference but I caution you not to ask for a reduction in heat build up. The heat build up is the only thing that balances this weapon vs the TAC AR. You can charge it up for more damage and this in itself is a very big reason to look at it as a superior weapon to the TAC AR. The superior rate of fire when compared to the TAC AR is also something that I see as a problem on a rifle with NO RECOIL. There is no adjustment needed when firing off a volley of shots at and individual, there is only a need to be concerned with heat buildup, which when managed correctly will never leave you waving your gun in the air to cool down. If a TAC AR user fires 10 rounds at a person, even with maxed out skills, they still need to adjust where their shots are going each time if they wish to hit the person. Not so with a scrambler rifle, you need only to keep an eye on the heat of the weapon while you keep your aim steady.
You have no clue what youre talking about do you? The tac has a ROF of 789.5 and the scram has a ROF of 705.9. Try BSing about something else. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
357
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 22:26:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jen Gelfling wrote:+1 For a heat build reducing passive and sensible range.
What's needed, basically. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
18
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Posted - 2013.05.25 06:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Jen Gelfling wrote:+1 For a heat build reducing passive and sensible range. What's needed, basically.
Agreed. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
309
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 07:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
So I just found out that the SR is super accurate, at least at mid range. This is one of the reasons I'm having so much trouble using it for CQC. The gun almost never hits when hip firing because of the low dispersion. So why make a very accurate gun with only 30m optimal? The same as an HMG!!!! The gun should have 60m optimal and 100m for the semi automatic one. I'll edit the OP. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
365
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 07:57:00 -
[86] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:So I just found out that the SR is super accurate, at least at mid range. This is one of the reasons I'm having so much trouble using it for CQC. The gun almost never hits when hip firing because of the low dispersion. So why make a very accurate gun with only 30m optimal? The same as an HMG!!!! The gun should have 60m optimal and 100m for the semi automatic one. I'll edit the OP.
It should be comparable to EVE stats, where pulse lasers have a significant range advantage over plasma weapons. The heat, fire-rate, uneven dmg percentile (shields vs. armor), and large power draw are where the differences should be. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
309
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 08:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:So I just found out that the SR is super accurate, at least at mid range. This is one of the reasons I'm having so much trouble using it for CQC. The gun almost never hits when hip firing because of the low dispersion. So why make a very accurate gun with only 30m optimal? The same as an HMG!!!! The gun should have 60m optimal and 100m for the semi automatic one. I'll edit the OP. It should be comparable to EVE stats, where pulse lasers have a significant range advantage over plasma weapons. The heat, fire-rate, uneven dmg percentile (shields vs. armor), and large power draw are where the differences should be.
Thanks for the info it all makes sense now. |
Clair de Lune
Procella Tempus General Tso's Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 20:47:00 -
[88] - Quote
I wonder if they would consider making the round bigger? One difference I see between the AR and SR is that the dispersal at close range helps the ar users hit the moving target. So, oddly the accurate sr suffers in cqc. Also, I can't count the times I hard a charged head shot lined up and it looks like it should hit, but no it goes next to his head. Added to this is the aiming controls not being smooth enough to account for such a small difference in space. Even adjusting sensitivity I cannot account for it well. |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
172
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 21:41:00 -
[89] - Quote
Cinnamon267 wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:Guys I thought about range increasing, but then you see that the dispersion is actually higher than the AR. Increasing range would be useless if dispersion is not decreased, which means double work for the devs.
For those that say the SR is fine, please look at the numbers of the above thread. There's no reason at all to choose SR over AR. I couldn't care less about those numbers. As someone who has been using it a lot, it's pretty good. Pretty effective. No reason to use the AR, for me. I do pretty well in matches, too. Haven't really used the AR since the LR came out. There is no reason to buff the Scrambler. The AR needs to be nerfed a little to bring it in line with everything else.
Another crack smoker who doesn't know EVE lore and tech. Brilliant. LOL
On the real note, the weapons, at least one would hope, should be a reflection of the tech as it appears in comparison to all the available tech in EVE. I.e., Dust weapons = ground based mini versions of EVE weapons.
The reality is that the SCR and ASCR are pulse lasers that typically have 4 times the base optimal range with approx 1/2 of the falloff range when compared to blasters. Who ever it was on the DEV team that decided to buff the range of the AR's to be outside of the lore of EVE should be sent in for REEDUCATION!!!! Not to mention is obviously a AR fanboi or girl.
A little bit of reading on the part of EVE tech, as Cinaed Corvus has show, shows a very different picture when compared to the current stats and abilities of the tech that we have been given. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
377
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Posted - 2013.05.26 06:03:00 -
[90] - Quote
For illustration purposes, here's two roughly equivalent specimens from blasters and pulse lasers. They're both MEDIUM and META lvl 5.
Heavy Pulse Laser II 12,000m 4000m 5.25s 3.6x 35tf 231MW 0.08125
Heavy Blaster II 3,000m 4,000m 4.5s 3.375x 33tf 158MW 0.11 rad/s
The stats you can see are, in order: Optimal Range, Accuracy Fall-off, Rate of fire, damage modifier, CPU, PG, and tracking speed.
A pulse laser has 4x the range as a blaster in this instance, but about the same accuracy fall-off. You can also see a pulse laser uses more CPU and much more PG. |
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