DUST Search - Soooo, bout that Scrambler.

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

Geth Massredux wrote:

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

Skyhound Solbrave wrote:

No don't touch the SR, CCP. The Sr is a weapon you have to get used to and get better with, its not meant to be an AR 2.0. It is meant to be a specialist weapon. The charge shot is powerful and in the hands of a true specialist, can one or two hit kill an enemy very easily. Any buffs is likely to push it to OP status. If you are having trouble with TARs then learn basic combat tactics.

Use spatial awareness and cover to bait the TAR user into range, pop out of cover with a well placed charge shot, pause for a half moment, then shoot as needed. This tactic works really well, but hinges on that first shot. If you miss ut, retreat back into cover and try again. Depending on the enemy's armor and your trigger discipline, you may be shy of killing them before you overheat or you may overheat just after he dies.

Get better with the gun, it is perfectly balanced. In short, HTFU.

You don't really understand how weapons are supposed to work in Dust do you? The Scrambler needs more range to fit its lore and to make it competitive with the AR. Sure, its new and shiny now and people are getting kills with it. But I guarantee you if nothing changes no one will continue to use it after a month. AR is simply superior in every way to the Scrambler.

You sure about that? I got tired of the AR since I been using it since closed beta. I think some people will be using the SCR for some time... Thats if they get used to it and better with it..

- Geth

Being tired of the AR and the Scram being good are two different things. I love the Scram, so much that despite me running all the numbers in this thread and knowing how bad it is I put a little faith in it and skilled into it anyway. But now, I wish I had just went Caldari Logi Tacscrub like everyone else. The Scram simply cannot compete with the AR.

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Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 330	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:02:00 - [31] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: All I know is, is that the scrambler rifle destroys these dudes in proto suits. I use the Imperial scrambler and the Carthum scrambler rifle. I kill them left and right... I suggest you guys play the game and stop relying on some stats that dont really mean **... - Geth So knowing at what range your optimal ends and how much damage your charge shot does, doesn't mean **? You sir are ignorant. Lmao, Man I just play the game, I see a few stats and if it looks better then the AR, im going to use it. No harm in that... Ingame stats are good enough... Out of game stats you guys put together is pointless... Play the game have fun... - Geth
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 164	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:09:00 - [32] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: All I know is, is that the scrambler rifle destroys these dudes in proto suits. I use the Imperial scrambler and the Carthum scrambler rifle. I kill them left and right... I suggest you guys play the game and stop relying on some stats that dont really mean **... - Geth So knowing at what range your optimal ends and how much damage your charge shot does, doesn't mean **? You sir are ignorant. Lmao, Man I just play the game, I see a few stats and if it looks better then the AR, im going to use it. No harm in that... Ingame stats are good enough... Out of game stats you guys put together is pointless... Play the game have fun... - Geth Theyre the same stats.... Im simply showing them in ways and in relation to other stats so its easy for people to understand what it is they actually do. That way we can stop seeing stupid posts like "the scrambler does twice the damage as the AR", when in fact that is not true at all (barring charge shots ofc). I guess this method is too hard for you to comprehend?
Skyhound Solbrave Rough Riders.. 74	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:10:00 - [33] - Quote No don't touch the SR, CCP. The Sr is a weapon you have to get used to and get better with, its not meant to be an AR 2.0. It is meant to be a specialist weapon. The charge shot is powerful and in the hands of a true specialist, can one or two hit kill an enemy very easily. Any buffs is likely to push it to OP status. If you are having trouble with TARs then learn basic combat tactics. Use spatial awareness and cover to bait the TAR user into range, pop out of cover with a well placed charge shot, pause for a half moment, then shoot as needed. This tactic works really well, but hinges on that first shot. If you miss ut, retreat back into cover and try again. Depending on the enemy's armor and your trigger discipline, you may be shy of killing them before you overheat or you may overheat just after he dies. Get better with the gun, it is perfectly balanced. In short, HTFU.
Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 330	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:12:00 - [34] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: All I know is, is that the scrambler rifle destroys these dudes in proto suits. I use the Imperial scrambler and the Carthum scrambler rifle. I kill them left and right... I suggest you guys play the game and stop relying on some stats that dont really mean **... - Geth So knowing at what range your optimal ends and how much damage your charge shot does, doesn't mean **? You sir are ignorant. Lmao, Man I just play the game, I see a few stats and if it looks better then the AR, im going to use it. No harm in that... Ingame stats are good enough... Out of game stats you guys put together is pointless... Play the game have fun... - Geth Theyre the same stats.... Im simply showing them in ways and in relation to other stats so its easy for people to understand what it is they actually do. That way we can stop seeing stupid posts like "the scrambler does twice the damage as the AR", when in fact that is not true at all (barring charge shots ofc). I guess this method is too hard for you to comprehend? It really is... No lie... I guess I post misleading info then... Dude took it to the heart... Are you upset RECON? Its ok, its ok if your mad.... - Geth
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 409	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:21:00 - [35] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around. Thanks for posting thos stats Recon. The TAR is prolly gonna have a little adjusting done to it. And there's an awful lot of Caldari sheild tankers out there right now. Seems like the Scrambler rifle would do pretty good against all those Caldari Logis. I would like to know the shape of the falloff curve though. If I remember correctly from my EVE days you do 50% damage at falloff. Ofc I haven't played EVE since early 2010 and I have no clue how that translates to Dust either. its not the same in dust. optimal is when the damage falls off from 100% here.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 165	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:26:00 - [36] - Quote ladwar wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around. Thanks for posting thos stats Recon. The TAR is prolly gonna have a little adjusting done to it. And there's an awful lot of Caldari sheild tankers out there right now. Seems like the Scrambler rifle would do pretty good against all those Caldari Logis. I would like to know the shape of the falloff curve though. If I remember correctly from my EVE days you do 50% damage at falloff. Ofc I haven't played EVE since early 2010 and I have no clue how that translates to Dust either. its not the same in dust. optimal is when the damage falls off from 100% here. Im quite sure we know how optimal works, the question is about falloff. Do you do 100% from optimal all the way to 0% at your max range? Or do you do 50% at max range and then it just magically disappears?
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 165	Posted - 2013.05.16 03:31:00 - [37] - Quote Skyhound Solbrave wrote: No don't touch the SR, CCP. The Sr is a weapon you have to get used to and get better with, its not meant to be an AR 2.0. It is meant to be a specialist weapon. The charge shot is powerful and in the hands of a true specialist, can one or two hit kill an enemy very easily. Any buffs is likely to push it to OP status. If you are having trouble with TARs then learn basic combat tactics. Use spatial awareness and cover to bait the TAR user into range, pop out of cover with a well placed charge shot, pause for a half moment, then shoot as needed. This tactic works really well, but hinges on that first shot. If you miss ut, retreat back into cover and try again. Depending on the enemy's armor and your trigger discipline, you may be shy of killing them before you overheat or you may overheat just after he dies. Get better with the gun, it is perfectly balanced. In short, HTFU. You don't really understand how weapons are supposed to work in Dust do you? The Scrambler needs more range to fit its lore and to make it competitive with the AR. Sure, its new and shiny now and people are getting kills with it. But I guarantee you if nothing changes no one will continue to use it after a month. AR is simply superior in every way to the Scrambler.
Imp Smash On The Brink CRONOS. 87	Posted - 2013.05.16 09:45:00 - [38] - Quote I have to agree with the vast majority of posters in this thread-- the scrambler rifle doesnt keep up with the assault rifles. Personally I prefer the semi auto version - and damage wise I am comfortable with it. The range issue is huge, however. You are simply dead faster. The issue of heat is also fairly major. In a short range or closer gunfight you virtually always lose because you only get a few shots before overheat. When overheated you can't switch weapons -- which I consider meh. Fair enough although switching to sidearm would be fair too. Can't melee - which is unfair. I should at least be able to elbow a guy. Can't Sprint - which is wtfbbq. Seriously? Essentially- heat buildup is a weakness ARs don't have by the SR does. Well SRs do get a slight headshot damage bonus on the AR so that's not so bad. But with the much lower fire rate you simply can't take advantage of that headshot bonus as fast as the AR can so it still loses out. THEN on top of that the range is unacceptable for its role. IMO make the range match the ARs and slightly reduce heat buildup. And fix the sprint.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 469	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:05:00 - [39] - Quote scrambler rifle accepts the heat as a downside in exchange for... what exactly? i was expecting it to have at least a slight range advantage. i mean it made SENSE? heat for range... even lore wise it fit, ARs are blasters, scramblers are pulse lasers, pulse lasers in eve outrange blasters? i mean, they're not TERRIBLE... they're just blatantly less good, so what's the POINT?
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet 22	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:38:00 - [40] - Quote +1 Excellent post on the ranges! I knew things were feeling off when I was engaging.. The damage is great on the weapons but their optimal is trash. I love the guns, but the disparity in ranges is a complete letdown. I really hope these get balanced soon - I don't want to have to spec back in to AR's just to be competitive.

Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet 22	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:53:00 - [41] - Quote SR Pros +Great Shield Damage +Charge Shot +High Damage +Rapid Fire capable +Low Kick +Full-size Clip SR Cons -Reduced range vs comparable weaponry (TAC AR) -Heat Management (10-12 shots max before overheat) -Overheat Penalty -Poor Armor Damage -Heat reduction from Assault Suit is minimal/not noticeable (Bug? Needs more testing) -Poor damage falloff (Static factor of weapon range?) Assault SR Pros +Great Shield Damage +High RoF +High Accuracy +Good Damage +Extended Clip Assault SR Cons -Reduced range vs comparable weaponry(Standard AR) -Poor Armor Damage -Heat Management -Overheat Penalty -Heat reduction from Assault Suit is minimal/not noticeable (Bug? Needs more testing) -Requires advanced training (SR Level 3) at minimum to use -Poor damage falloff (Static factor of weapon range?) Compare with AR's TAC AR Pros +High damage +High RoF +High Accuracy +Extended Range (Best range of all AR variant weaponry) +Low Hip fire kick in mid/short range +Good zoom/scope +Excellent damage falloff (Static factor of weapon range?) +No restrictive penalty for rapid firing TAC AR Cons -High Kick in scope -Smaller Clip size -Requires advanced training (AR Level 3) at minimum to use Standard AR Pros +Good all-around damage +High RoF +Good accuracy +Good range (Practically the benchmark for all weapons) +Good damage falloff +No restrictive penalty for rapid firing Standard AR Cons -High dispersion and kick if untrained -No zoom I'm sure I missed something, but this is just what I've noticed. Thoughts? If I missed something let me know and I can add it in. This is meant to be a talking point - not my take on which gun is better. If anything, the Standard AR is all around best by the looks of it!
Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 335	Posted - 2013.05.16 11:04:00 - [42] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Skyhound Solbrave wrote: No don't touch the SR, CCP. The Sr is a weapon you have to get used to and get better with, its not meant to be an AR 2.0. It is meant to be a specialist weapon. The charge shot is powerful and in the hands of a true specialist, can one or two hit kill an enemy very easily. Any buffs is likely to push it to OP status. If you are having trouble with TARs then learn basic combat tactics. Use spatial awareness and cover to bait the TAR user into range, pop out of cover with a well placed charge shot, pause for a half moment, then shoot as needed. This tactic works really well, but hinges on that first shot. If you miss ut, retreat back into cover and try again. Depending on the enemy's armor and your trigger discipline, you may be shy of killing them before you overheat or you may overheat just after he dies. Get better with the gun, it is perfectly balanced. In short, HTFU. You don't really understand how weapons are supposed to work in Dust do you? The Scrambler needs more range to fit its lore and to make it competitive with the AR. Sure, its new and shiny now and people are getting kills with it. But I guarantee you if nothing changes no one will continue to use it after a month. AR is simply superior in every way to the Scrambler. You sure about that? I got tired of the AR since I been using it since closed beta. I think some people will be using the SCR for some time... Thats if they get used to it and better with it.. - Geth
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2013.05.16 15:06:00 - [43] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Skyhound Solbrave wrote: No don't touch the SR, CCP. The Sr is a weapon you have to get used to and get better with, its not meant to be an AR 2.0. It is meant to be a specialist weapon. The charge shot is powerful and in the hands of a true specialist, can one or two hit kill an enemy very easily. Any buffs is likely to push it to OP status. If you are having trouble with TARs then learn basic combat tactics. Use spatial awareness and cover to bait the TAR user into range, pop out of cover with a well placed charge shot, pause for a half moment, then shoot as needed. This tactic works really well, but hinges on that first shot. If you miss ut, retreat back into cover and try again. Depending on the enemy's armor and your trigger discipline, you may be shy of killing them before you overheat or you may overheat just after he dies. Get better with the gun, it is perfectly balanced. In short, HTFU. You don't really understand how weapons are supposed to work in Dust do you? The Scrambler needs more range to fit its lore and to make it competitive with the AR. Sure, its new and shiny now and people are getting kills with it. But I guarantee you if nothing changes no one will continue to use it after a month. AR is simply superior in every way to the Scrambler. You sure about that? I got tired of the AR since I been using it since closed beta. I think some people will be using the SCR for some time... Thats if they get used to it and better with it.. - Geth Being tired of the AR and the Scram being good are two different things. I love the Scram, so much that despite me running all the numbers in this thread and knowing how bad it is I put a little faith in it and skilled into it anyway. But now, I wish I had just went Caldari Logi Tacscrub like everyone else. The Scram simply cannot compete with the AR.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 71	Posted - 2013.05.17 00:40:00 - [44] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Finally was able to get back on and run the numbers: Overall DPS Duvolle AR: 467.5 Carthum AS: 465.9 DPS vs Shields Duvolle AR: 514.3 Carthum AS: 559.1 DPS vs Armor Duvolle AR: 420.8 Carthum AS: 372.7 So here you can see that overall DPS is better on the Duvolle by 1.6 points, there is a 48 point damage difference on armor in favor of the Duvolle, and a 44.8 point damage difference on shield in favor of the Carthum. Based on these numbers it would seem damage is pretty much balanced on the two weapons, however, the AR has superior range making it the better gun. The DPS of the Tac variants of both AR and Scram is a questionable point since it is determined by the user. However, once again, the AR has superior range. I find it really interesting how well balanced it is when you take the range differences out of the equation. That means that literally the only thing they need to fix is the range. Why aren't they exactly equal, anyway??? Differentiation is nice, but holy crap, sometimes it's nice to just make things simple and remove some variables.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:22:00 - [45] - Quote Now do stats where you take the charged shot into account
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:28:00 - [46] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: Now do stats where you take the charged shot into account What do you mean? I already did that, charged shots don't extend your range or anything.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:39:00 - [47] - Quote Compare a charged SR(with shots to finish off the target) DPS to a AR DPS
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2013.05.17 02:01:00 - [48] - Quote Ohhhhh, ok I gotchya. DPS of a charged shot is 216.7. Some things to remember about this number are that this is assuming you can fire it as soon as charged after 1.5 seconds (which also assumes you have Scrambler Operation to lvl 5), and this also assumes that the Scrambler Rifle does not overheat easily after charged shots (which in fact it does). To be exact, releasing two charged shots one after another produces enough heat to overheat the weapon. So, in short, the stated DPS is unobtainable.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 478	Posted - 2013.05.17 02:04:00 - [49] - Quote big question is what is the head shot multiplier. if it is 450 like the pistol your pro players are going to be able to run over people with well placed headshots.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2013.05.17 02:07:00 - [50] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: big question is what is the head shot multiplier. if it is 450 like the pistol your pro players are going to be able to run over people with well placed headshots. Headshot multiplier is 180, on shields.

WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 270	Posted - 2013.05.17 03:48:00 - [51] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Skyhound Solbrave wrote: No don't touch the SR, CCP. The Sr is a weapon you have to get used to and get better with, its not meant to be an AR 2.0. It is meant to be a specialist weapon. The charge shot is powerful and in the hands of a true specialist, can one or two hit kill an enemy very easily. Any buffs is likely to push it to OP status. If you are having trouble with TARs then learn basic combat tactics. Use spatial awareness and cover to bait the TAR user into range, pop out of cover with a well placed charge shot, pause for a half moment, then shoot as needed. This tactic works really well, but hinges on that first shot. If you miss ut, retreat back into cover and try again. Depending on the enemy's armor and your trigger discipline, you may be shy of killing them before you overheat or you may overheat just after he dies. Get better with the gun, it is perfectly balanced. In short, HTFU. You don't really understand how weapons are supposed to work in Dust do you? The Scrambler needs more range to fit its lore and to make it competitive with the AR. Sure, its new and shiny now and people are getting kills with it. But I guarantee you if nothing changes no one will continue to use it after a month. AR is simply superior in every way to the Scrambler. You sure about that? I got tired of the AR since I been using it since closed beta. I think some people will be using the SCR for some time... Thats if they get used to it and better with it.. - Geth Being tired of the AR and the Scram being good are two different things. I love the Scram, so much that despite me running all the numbers in this thread and knowing how bad it is I put a little faith in it and skilled into it anyway. But now, I wish I had just went Caldari Logi Tacscrub like everyone else. The Scram simply cannot compete with the AR. So much this.
Imp Smash On The Brink CRONOS. 90	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:51:00 - [52] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: big question is what is the head shot multiplier. if it is 450 like the pistol your pro players are going to be able to run over people with well placed headshots. Headshot multiplier is 180, on shields. Is this a confirmed number? What is the headshot multiplier on armor (probably the same) and for comparison purposes what is the headshot multiplier on the ARs?
Tankin Tarkus Quafe Runners 8	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:59:00 - [53] - Quote scrambler rifle does less damage to armor so its headshot multiplier will probably be lower as far as the AR goes im pretty sure its 165
Imp Smash On The Brink CRONOS. 90	Posted - 2013.05.17 05:09:00 - [54] - Quote Only 15 lower than the sr? Uh oh....that changes the equation significantly....
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 271	Posted - 2013.05.17 05:21:00 - [55] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: big question is what is the head shot multiplier. if it is 450 like the pistol your pro players are going to be able to run over people with well placed headshots. Headshot multiplier is 180, on shields. Is this a confirmed number? What is the headshot multiplier on armor (probably the same) and for comparison purposes what is the headshot multiplier on the ARs? Confirmed.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 234	Posted - 2013.05.17 06:33:00 - [56] - Quote the SCR is actually balanced and the AR has to be hit by the nerf hammer from CCP, especially the TAR because it is over the top. it even beats the LR and the LR is supposed to be the best at such ranges.
Imp Smash On The Brink CRONOS. 90	Posted - 2013.05.17 06:52:00 - [57] - Quote Either or really. Parity is what matters. With the loss of sharpshooter bringing all the gunfights to closer range I would not be surprised if the ar range was dropped to match sr as opposed to sr buffed to match ar. But then again that is assuming that range will have parity. Both weapons may see no future changes.
Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 293	Posted - 2013.05.17 06:53:00 - [58] - Quote SR range isnt that low is it? I havent noticed myself being out ranged by the general assault rifle
Operative 1171 Aajli PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 21	Posted - 2013.05.17 13:28:00 - [59] - Quote I've been luvin' the scrambler rifle. It easily takes down shields and scares ppl off. They usually back off to let their sheilds recharge. It's great area denial/suppression fire. But it does kill all the way easily with minimal skills.
Infekti0n One-Armed Bandits 31	Posted - 2013.05.17 14:00:00 - [60] - Quote Scrambler Rifles are useless without proficiency. The armor damage is terrible, the shield damage is slightly to high. Less shield dmg more armor dmg?



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