DUST Search - Soooo, bout that Scrambler.

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

Jason Pearson wrote:

SR has better damage. You remember CCP mentioning that certain ARs with have different attributes SR is better close range than the GR it seems (according to other Inf players I've squadded with)

It also has a lower ROF, so DPS is the same or lower. Im not online right now to check all the stats and do the maths right now though.

Finally was able to get back on and run the numbers:

Overall DPS

Duvolle AR: 467.5
Carthum AS: 465.9

DPS vs Shields

Duvolle AR: 514.3
Carthum AS: 559.1

DPS vs Armor

Duvolle AR: 420.8
Carthum AS: 372.7

So here you can see that overall DPS is better on the Duvolle by 1.6 points, there is a 48 point damage difference on armor in favor of the Duvolle, and a 44.8 point damage difference on shield in favor of the Carthum. Based on these numbers it would seem damage is pretty much balanced on the two weapons, however, the AR has superior range making it the better gun.

The DPS of the Tac variants of both AR and Scram is a questionable point since it is determined by the user. However, once again, the AR has superior range.

BAM! numbers dont lie.

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RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 153	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:36:00 - [1] - Quote Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 259	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:38:00 - [2] - Quote Yeah...I suppose it's like the scrambler pistol, low range....
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 194	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:39:00 - [3] - Quote because you can charge it?
Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 317	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:40:00 - [4] - Quote It's just a bit less than the tactical. So what. It means I will have have to get closer to you to kill you.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 153	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:41:00 - [5] - Quote Only a bit less? Do you even see the differences in optimal!?
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 166	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:43:00 - [6] - Quote Ah, I was going to do this myself. So far I just saw that the standard SR seemed to have an optimal range at 44, perhaps 45 (coulda sworn 44). If this is the case, ill likely be sticking to the TAR.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 193	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:43:00 - [7] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Only a bit less? Do you even see the differences in optimal!? well he obviously uses the TAR and is in denial :)
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 132	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:45:00 - [8] - Quote Yeah I noticed this this morning as well. GEK-38's mowing me down while I am trying to fire that semi auto variant. Im really surprised they dont have the same range... wtf..
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 520	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:06:00 - [9] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around. Thanks for posting thos stats Recon. The TAR is prolly gonna have a little adjusting done to it. And there's an awful lot of Caldari sheild tankers out there right now. Seems like the Scramble rifle would do pretty good against all those Caldari Logis. I would like to know the shape of the falloff curve though.
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die 364	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:19:00 - [10] - Quote Yep, definately needs to be changed to atleast be on par with the TAR, range-wise.

Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 102	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:20:00 - [11] - Quote Knight SoIaire wrote: Yep, definately needs to be changed to atleast be on par with the TAR, range-wise. The TAR needs balancing on its own, from a certain range it's possible to almost countersnipe with it.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 153	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:20:00 - [12] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around. Thanks for posting thos stats Recon. The TAR is prolly gonna have a little adjusting done to it. And there's an awful lot of Caldari sheild tankers out there right now. Seems like the Scrambler rifle would do pretty good against all those Caldari Logis. I would like to know the shape of the falloff curve though. If I remember correctly from my EVE days you do 50% damage at falloff. Ofc I haven't played EVE since early 2010 and I have no clue how that translates to Dust either.
Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 142	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:24:00 - [13] - Quote I don't know... A charged shot from max range still does a ton of damage and sniper TAC ARs are usually stationary....
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1083	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:27:00 - [14] - Quote SR has better damage. You remember CCP mentioning that certain ARs with have different attributes SR is better close range than the GR it seems (according to other Inf players I've squadded with)
Scramble Scrub Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 202	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:32:00 - [15] - Quote The St needs to out range the tac Its a laser weapon for crying out loud
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 153	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:34:00 - [16] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: SR has better damage. You remember CCP mentioning that certain ARs with have different attributes SR is better close range than the GR it seems (according to other Inf players I've squadded with) It also has a lower ROF, so DPS is the same or lower. Im not online right now to check all the stats and do the maths right now though.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2966	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:41:00 - [17] - Quote Seen a group of Scrambler guys dominate a Cal-Logi swarm. Good times. I'm Caldari, but still... good times.
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1131	Posted - 2013.05.14 16:46:00 - [18] - Quote Shut your face
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 153	Posted - 2013.05.14 22:29:00 - [19] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: SR has better damage. You remember CCP mentioning that certain ARs with have different attributes SR is better close range than the GR it seems (according to other Inf players I've squadded with) It also has a lower ROF, so DPS is the same or lower. Im not online right now to check all the stats and do the maths right now though. Finally was able to get back on and run the numbers: Overall DPS Duvolle AR: 467.5 Carthum AS: 465.9 DPS vs Shields Duvolle AR: 514.3 Carthum AS: 559.1 DPS vs Armor Duvolle AR: 420.8 Carthum AS: 372.7 So here you can see that overall DPS is better on the Duvolle by 1.6 points, there is a 48 point damage difference on armor in favor of the Duvolle, and a 44.8 point damage difference on shield in favor of the Carthum. Based on these numbers it would seem damage is pretty much balanced on the two weapons, however, the AR has superior range making it the better gun. The DPS of the Tac variants of both AR and Scram is a questionable point since it is determined by the user. However, once again, the AR has superior range.
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 88	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:11:00 - [20] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: SR has better damage. You remember CCP mentioning that certain ARs with have different attributes SR is better close range than the GR it seems (according to other Inf players I've squadded with) It also has a lower ROF, so DPS is the same or lower. Im not online right now to check all the stats and do the maths right now though. Finally was able to get back on and run the numbers: Overall DPS Duvolle AR: 467.5 Carthum AS: 465.9 DPS vs Shields Duvolle AR: 514.3 Carthum AS: 559.1 DPS vs Armor Duvolle AR: 420.8 Carthum AS: 372.7 So here you can see that overall DPS is better on the Duvolle by 1.6 points, there is a 48 point damage difference on armor in favor of the Duvolle, and a 44.8 point damage difference on shield in favor of the Carthum. Based on these numbers it would seem damage is pretty much balanced on the two weapons, however, the AR has superior range making it the better gun. The DPS of the Tac variants of both AR and Scram is a questionable point since it is determined by the user. However, once again, the AR has superior range. BAM! numbers dont lie.

Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 270	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:15:00 - [21] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around. SR is a close runner up though I really like how it handles.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:16:00 - [22] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Why is the range worse than an AR? GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 68m Optimal Range: 1 - 40m CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 73m Optimal Range: 1 - 29m GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Max Range: 95m Optimal Range: 1 - 62m CRW-04 Scrambler Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 45m Save your SP people, AR is still the best gun around. Thanks for posting thos stats Recon. The TAR is prolly gonna have a little adjusting done to it. And there's an awful lot of Caldari sheild tankers out there right now. Seems like the Scrambler rifle would do pretty good against all those Caldari Logis. I would like to know the shape of the falloff curve though. Not likely when all of the Caldari suits running around are running around with Duvolle TacARs. At this rate the Tac AR doesn't need adjusting, just the SR needs a 25-40% range buff.
Val'herik Dorn SyNergy Gaming EoN. 545	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:20:00 - [23] - Quote The scrambler rifle needs the 10% damage buff the other weapons got... Its a good gun but its overheat is HARSH like minmatar amarr relations harsh... It should have a better damage rating because of the heat... i mean it over heats in like 8-10 shots while the tac ar isstill just spamming R1 at you like a madman hopeing to get that shot. Also when charging I swear it slows aiming down... so basically to use it to full effect your target has to be heavy slow or stationary. I can pull 5 kdrs with the tac but the scrambler nets me at best a 3... If your not gonna fix the tac buff the asr so something competes with it...
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:22:00 - [24] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: SR has better damage. You remember CCP mentioning that certain ARs with have different attributes SR is better close range than the GR it seems (according to other Inf players I've squadded with) It also has a lower ROF, so DPS is the same or lower. Im not online right now to check all the stats and do the maths right now though. Finally was able to get back on and run the numbers: Overall DPS Duvolle AR: 467.5 Carthum AS: 465.9 DPS vs Shields Duvolle AR: 514.3 Carthum AS: 559.1 DPS vs Armor Duvolle AR: 420.8 Carthum AS: 372.7 So here you can see that overall DPS is better on the Duvolle by 1.6 points, there is a 48 point damage difference on armor in favor of the Duvolle, and a 44.8 point damage difference on shield in favor of the Carthum. Based on these numbers it would seem damage is pretty much balanced on the two weapons, however, the AR has superior range making it the better gun. The DPS of the Tac variants of both AR and Scram is a questionable point since it is determined by the user. However, once again, the AR has superior range. BAM! numbers dont lie. Not only that, with the superior range that the AR has in conjunction with the Sharpshooter skill tightening long range dispersion of the rounds going down range, the TacAR is the try-hard gun FTW. You cannot go into a match and not run into at least half or more of the opposing team with them. Hence the reason I casll out to CCP for a 25-40% range buff on both the SR and ASR. But then again, we don;t know what the possible release date is for the Minmatar battle rifle or the CAldari gauss rifle and their numbers.
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 5	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:23:00 - [25] - Quote Its still OP... It kills if the opponent has a tiny bit of shield left, and you can just kill with the scrambler pistol if it doesn't kill... even at full health... with the exception with heavies...
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 162	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:24:00 - [26] - Quote Val'herik Dorn wrote: The scrambler rifle needs the 10% damage buff the other weapons got... They actually already did. The Carthum Assaults damage at Fanfest was 35.8 and it is now 39.6. Proof here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EgB6LXqk8RY#t=1066s
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:34:00 - [27] - Quote Val'herik Dorn wrote: The scrambler rifle needs the 10% damage buff the other weapons got... Its a good gun but its overheat is HARSH like minmatar amarr relations harsh... It should have a better damage rating because of the heat... i mean it over heats in like 8-10 shots while the tac ar isstill just spamming R1 at you like a madman hopeing to get that shot. Also when charging I swear it slows aiming down... so basically to use it to full effect your target has to be heavy slow or stationary. I can pull 5 kdrs with the tac but the scrambler nets me at best a 3... If your not gonna fix the tac buff the asr so something competes with it... I am not convinced about the damage buff, though given the fact that it has better effectiveness against shield and has the detraction against armor, maybe a 5-10% buff on the damage along with at least a 25% buff on the optimal range of the SR and ASR. It doesn't make sense that the ASR (advanced version) has a better maximum range but the optimal range is extremely deficient. If you can't get into a relatively effective range and be able to deal a fair amount of damage at range, it doesn't matter. When half of the team you are up against are packing the TacAR, potential DPS doesn't matter because you can't get your target into the kill zone without sacrificing yourself, which is not the point of any engagement. And I haven't even taken into consideration the point brought up by OP about how a SR or ASR has heat build up, which, though the AR has visual effects of the barrel heating up there are not "physical" affects from that visualization of the heat build up. Needless to say, as much as I like the SR and ASR, it requires some tuning and the range of the weapons need to be pulled from hard to tapering falloff.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 164	Posted - 2013.05.15 21:51:00 - [28] - Quote Updated OP with damage numbers, more range numbers, and other nerdy number stuff.
Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 330	Posted - 2013.05.15 21:55:00 - [29] - Quote All I know is, is that the scrambler rifle destroys these dudes in proto suits. I use the Imperial scrambler and the Carthum scrambler rifle. I kill them left and right... I suggest you guys play the game and stop relying on some stats that dont really mean ****... - Geth
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 164	Posted - 2013.05.15 21:59:00 - [30] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: All I know is, is that the scrambler rifle destroys these dudes in proto suits. I use the Imperial scrambler and the Carthum scrambler rifle. I kill them left and right... I suggest you guys play the game and stop relying on some stats that dont really mean **... - Geth So knowing at what range your optimal ends and how much damage your charge shot does, doesn't mean **? You sir are ignorant.



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