Well, people are generally rolling much higher HP totals, and overall durability these days. I think CCP made a good call for the 10%. Sniper rifles actually hurt again for one. lol

But I dont think the Tactical needed it.
It basically punches as hard as a scrambler at excess 70m... that's a hell of a lot of power.
The 10% puts the duvy tac at 78, and the glu-5 at 75... that's pretty high.

Pre-10% they were working great. The 10% makes every weapon work, great, but no one was really fussing the tactical until after it was implemented.

lol I admit to having an agenda: 'wanting to buffer the incoming hit to the tactical' lol because i really like using it.

Blame high ROF. With the lowered recoil (which is good) it once again allow people to use as a decent CQC weapon. If it had something like 350-400dish ROF, it would be what it's suppose to be. SOmething between an AR and a Snipe. At CQC you could still pull it off but it wouldnt be confortable.

Well, people are generally rolling much higher HP totals, and overall durability these days. I think CCP made a good call for the 10%. Sniper rifles actually hurt again for one. lol

But I dont think the Tactical needed it.
It basically punches as hard as a scrambler at excess 70m... that's a hell of a lot of power.
The 10% puts the duvy tac at 78, and the glu-5 at 75... that's pretty high.

Pre-10% they were working great. The 10% makes every weapon work, great, but no one was really fussing the tactical until after it was implemented.

lol I admit to having an agenda: 'wanting to buffer the incoming hit to the tactical' lol because i really like using it.

Everyone started to complaint about the Tactical, AFTER the 10% boost..... coincidence ? I think not.

Everyone started to complaint about the Tactical, AFTER the 10% boost..... coincidence ? I think not.

[quote=Jathniel]
Everyone started to complaint about the Tactical, AFTER the 10% boost..... coincidence ? I think not.

37 rounds from a Duvolle drops a 1200 HP heavy, that leaves 23 rounds left in the clip at optimal range.
18 rounds in a Tac Duvolle drops a 1200 HP, if i dont miss a single round at optimal range.

Basically the Stock Duvolle has 11 more Tac rounds worth inside it clips in case he misses.

Going by these basic numbers, you just broke the Tac again, Congratz.

What you all seem to miss is that TAC AR aint supposed to be used with hip fire or under mid range... It's suppose to be half way between a classic AR and a classic Sniper Rifle.

Damage wise, it is
Range wise, it is
Clip Wise, it is
Bullet per bullet shot, it is.

Hip fire wise, it's not at all. Way too accurate. And very easy to shoot quicker than a breach AR can by taping like a maniac at close range. (been there, done it the entire build before chromosome...)

TAC AR at close range should be a pain to use. And its ROF should be below the Breach variant.

What you all seem to miss is that TAC AR aint supposed to be used with hip fire or under mid range... It's suppose to be half way between a classic AR and a classic Sniper Rifle.

Damage wise, it is
Range wise, it is
Clip Wise, it is
Bullet per bullet shot, it is.

Hip fire wise, it's not at all. Way too accurate. And very easy to shoot quicker than a breach AR can by taping like a maniac at close range. (been there, done it the entire build before chromosome...)

TAC AR at close range should be a pain to use. And its ROF should be below the Breach variant.

I'd rather not nerf the weapon at all.

But if it HAS to come under the hammer, I'm trying to put some numbers out, to retain a measure of effectiveness, while eliminating obvious abuses and imbalances.

I'm tired of CCP using a sword for the job of a scalpel.

I'd like to see hip fire have nasty recoil, each shot should kick hard, and accuracy will suffer, right now, its beyond a joke.

the rof would be fine if it wasn't for certain game control pads.

The damage needs dropping for sure tho.

My main issue with them is that I thought Uprising would seperate the sharpsshooter dependant, mostly skilless users from those who were actually skilled. Instead it unleashed a whole new skilless beast on the game, that for me is ruining it.

I actually think its the one thing thats a major flop in uprising, (caldari logi suits seemed OP, until i found the beauty of fx nades), but the TAR beats most guns at short range, and all from there on out. Easiest way to see it, if one gun is being used my the majority, its obviously in need of balance.

Another lil hater with nothing to say?

I am actually one of the best players in this game topping the list in 8 out of 10 games. You can challenge me any day of the week for ISK if you think any differently.

Again..

The TAC AR is just fine the way it is and works just like a 77k weapon should.

You say the TAR beats most guns in allranges. I agree, this why the ROF should be the only thing changed. If ROF was 300, the TAR would actually be inferior in closer ranges, bc Gek/Duvolle would have a higher DPS. If you also touched the dmg, it would ruin the gun.

@OP:
TAC AR cannot be fixed by numbers alone.
The issues are in handling mechanics which don't relate to numbers (other than programmer language numbers, that is).


I totally agree with Caz above:
The biggest thing wrong about TAC AR is negligble hip fire kick - and the ability to autofire because of it!
Niote that scoped view has strongish kick which limits autofire. Hipfire is the 'Thing' for TACs.


Currently TAC AR can be used:
- at melee distance - hip with full autofire.
- at short (about 3-15m) distance - hip with full autofire.
- at medium (about 15-40m) distance - hip with full autofire.
- at medium long (about 40-60m) distance - hip with full autofire while somewhat suffering from lack of proper sights OR scoped with bursts of 3-4 shots of autofire
- at long (60+m) distance - scoped with bursts of 2-3 shots autofire


Of the above the short, medium are especially broken and TAC AR excels against it's intended role. Note these two are the most lethal distances in which most effective kills are made in Dust so these ranges should be emphasized while doing balancing. These are also the ones where autofire TACs have 'unfair' advantage.
Honestly, TAC autofiring at hip is a monster.

Medium long is close to being balanced, there's healty competition with normal AR while TAC is somewhat advantageous currently.

Currently, long distance works nicely as it requires scoping and autofire has it's limitations due to kick. Limitations mean it takes a ton of skill to try to keep dot on target while autofiring. True, TAC AR is stronger at long range than any other AR, but that is what it's supposed to be.

Actually, scoped burst-autofiring TAC AR use feels very very much like firing a real assault rifle by hand and gives one of the greatest shooting experiences in video games.

It takes a decent amount of skill to hit while keeping the success of hitting rewarding! I even dare to say this shooting balance might be worth exporting to other rifles as well!


WHAT TO FIX:
1st: Fix = nerf hipfiring by giving it huge kick. This does two things:
- Sets AR > TAC AR at short and medium distances, autofire or fingertrigger. If TAC is difficult to use and therefore poor compared to other rifles at those ranges things are good.
- Breaks the short and medium distance usage as machine gun by autofiring (IMPORTANT!)
This should be implemented ASAP to let testers (us) to see if there's need for another nerf!


2nd: Tune down the damage a bit. Probably the removal of recent +10% damage is enough.
If there has to be some other nerf besides the first, then this done with a scalpel not nerfhammer.


3rd: This is a further option if autofire needs more controlling: even smaller clip size




TLDR;
Nerf the short-medium range hipfire autofiring. Do this first.
Careful with other nerfs/tunedowns before fixing that.
TAC at scoped view (long range) is ok.

What you all seem to miss is that TAC AR aint supposed to be used with hip fire or under mid range... It's suppose to be half way between a classic AR and a classic Sniper Rifle.

Damage wise, it is
Range wise, it is
Clip Wise, it is
Bullet per bullet shot, it is.

Hip fire wise, it's not at all. Way too accurate. And very easy to shoot quicker than a breach AR can by taping like a maniac at close range. (been there, done it the entire build before chromosome...)

TAC AR at close range should be a pain to use. And its ROF should be below the Breach variant.

I take your point, but if it goes too low, you wont be able to down critical targets at critical moments.
The RoF recommendation was simply to prevent modded input....
Because under 400RPM is very slow, and not semi-auto friendly...

As it stands i think its all I've seen in the kill feed recently and sometimes it would seem 3 mercs on 1 clip in less than a couple of seconds is not that difficult. I know there ar some good shooters out there but that seems a bit fishy to me.