DUST Search - Those who argue for no reset: what are your points?

Delta 749 wrote:

hooc order wrote:

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil.

To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position?

Be well.

I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be.

But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed.

I want the SP/level system removed from the game so i can have fun playing the game NOW. This is an FPS i want all my FPS toys to play with now not in some distant future. I also want to beat or be beat by players who are on par with me...not be face stomped by horrible FPS EvE players who spent the last 6 months AFKing in the MCC.

A thousand times this, the skill system in use is a terrible fit for the genre of game this is

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Justin Tymes Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:47:00 - [31] - Quote There are no points. People went into skills that did not do what they were suppose to, so obviously they deserve a respec. The only way you could have known anything about it would be to learn from those poor unfortunate souls who did spec into the skill. The research argument is horseshit.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:48:00 - [32] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: I want to see the sandbox pure. Bad decisions punished, -stability-. If respec is allowed now, will the path lead to more and more catering to mediocrity? EVE does not cater to mediocrity. It's a very unforgiving game and just that purity of design makes it stable and interesting. Dust needs to step up the standards and harden the f up so that it can one day become a part of the intriguing sandbox. This. Some of the Dusties see the skillsystem as grinding to get to the uber gear. Even modern RPGs take all decisionmaking out of the leveling process and devolve into a straight upward "lvl=power" progression(cough D3 cough). No wonder people are depressed when they realize they made the wrong decision when they don't feel that it's part of the process. Does not mean broken skills are your own fault min you.
Specter RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 78	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:55:00 - [33] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: There are no points. People went into skills that did not do what they were suppose to, so obviously they deserve a respec. The only way you could have known anything about it would be to learn from those poor unfortunate souls who did spec into the skill. The research argument is horseshit. Research argument? The hell is so friggin hard to press Triangle and read through what the skill does? Is it that hard to press a single button and read a simple few sentences? Really? You have seriously got to be kidding me.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:58:00 - [34] - Quote Specter RND wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: There are no points. People went into skills that did not do what they were suppose to, so obviously they deserve a respec. The only way you could have known anything about it would be to learn from those poor unfortunate souls who did spec into the skill. The research argument is horseshit. Research argument? The hell is so friggin hard to press Triangle and read through what the skill does? Is it that hard to press a single button and read a simple few sentences? Really? You have seriously got to be kidding me. Isn't the issue that the skill does not do what the triangle menu says it would? If not then i agree.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 416	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:59:00 - [35] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: There are no points. People went into skills that did not do what they were suppose to, so obviously they deserve a respec. The only way you could have known anything about it would be to learn from those poor unfortunate souls who did spec into the skill. The research argument is horseshit. The research argument is weak, why dont you try and counter point one of the strong arguments against it.
Specter RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 78	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:02:00 - [36] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Specter RND wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: There are no points. People went into skills that did not do what they were suppose to, so obviously they deserve a respec. The only way you could have known anything about it would be to learn from those poor unfortunate souls who did spec into the skill. The research argument is horseshit. Research argument? The hell is so friggin hard to press Triangle and read through what the skill does? Is it that hard to press a single button and read a simple few sentences? Really? You have seriously got to be kidding me. Isn't the issue that the skill does not do what the triangle menu says it would? If not then i agree. I know theres a skill in the entire skill tree that doesnt do what it says and that is that PG Skill for Vehicles and that's the only one I herd of. If there's more then that's a problem, but if there isn't I say these whiners deserve what they get.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 425	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:11:00 - [37] - Quote I have two views on this and they are opposed to each other. CCP has their normal answer, 'decisions have consequences' which I normally agree with. And in fact did in this case as well. CCP has so totally screwed over so many players, beta testers, berries new and old that I believe a respec is the absolute least they could do. Not only is the Skill Tree bad is it so bad that I would be hard pressed to recommend the game. If someone wants to play my answer now is: download the game, make a character, start passive SP and leave it alone for two months. After that then start playing three days a week to hit SP Cap as they decide how to spend the SP that they have been saving. If they want more than they need AUR so a Merc Pack will help move them along further but the two months wait is still the best solution. Hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement does it? Because it isn't.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 416	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:14:00 - [38] - Quote Specter RND wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Specter RND wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: There are no points. People went into skills that did not do what they were suppose to, so obviously they deserve a respec. The only way you could have known anything about it would be to learn from those poor unfortunate souls who did spec into the skill. The research argument is horseshit. Research argument? The hell is so friggin hard to press Triangle and read through what the skill does? Is it that hard to press a single button and read a simple few sentences? Really? You have seriously got to be kidding me. Isn't the issue that the skill does not do what the triangle menu says it would? If not then i agree. I know theres a skill in the entire skill tree that doesnt do what it says and that is that PG Skill for Vehicles and that's the only one I herd of. If there's more then that's a problem, but if there isn't I say these whiners deserve what they get. CCP could have prevented this by simply triple checking before going live, I know they are rushed or busy. Now if they allow a respec for this skill description error, they had better not make the same mistake and go live with an error in a year, because then I am sure there would be an uprising....so cheesy.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 268	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:20:00 - [39] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Purona wrote: they shjouldn't even think about respecs until new suits and vehicles are introduced And here we go, the respec would NOT be due to new content, there will always be new content. This is the danger of allowing respecs, people will think its for the wrong reasons and I can already see the "why no respec for new vehicles, you did it before, unfair!!!" threads that will roll in. Yes, but something like the commander or pilot suit getting added is different than us getting the missing scout and heavy suits. Those two, along with assaults and logis, are the 4 main roles, and I don't understand why CCP would ever release the game without them. (although it seems logis are now considered a secondary role ) It's simply unfair that scouts and especially heavies have no alternatives while assaults and logis have all 4 suits to choose from. This isn't just new content, it's content that should have been here by the time of release. The fact that it's not is a failure on CCP's part, and the players should not be punished because of it. So yes, we need a respec, but only once the rest of the content is here.
2100 Angels The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 97	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:33:00 - [40] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: hooc order wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed. I want the SP/level system removed from the game so i can have fun playing the game NOW. This is an FPS i want all my FPS toys to play with now not in some distant future. I also want to beat or be beat by players who are on par with me...not be face stomped by horrible FPS EvE players who spent the last 6 months AFKing in the MCC. A thousand times this, the skill system in use is a terrible fit for the genre of game this is If you both mean what you've just said, then neither of you are the target market for this game. Kindly take your suggestions promoting your own personal flavour of vanilla elsewhere. A game like call of duty or battlefield might suit your play style a little better.

ca ronic Moffit Bros 9	Posted - 2013.05.09 23:57:00 - [41] - Quote Only good points I see are for a respec. So much changed they deemed it necessary to give us a respec. My question is why only one, why not two or three or five? Game got a lot deeper when they crushed the value of skill points. If they dont make any drastic changes to the weapons then going tactical assault rifle is kind of a no brainer. Be really funny if everybody respecs into assault rifle and then ccp gives it a big nerf. lol. Wouldnt surprise me, so I'd probably spec the same thiing I have now.
Iam Krogan Tuchanka Wrecking Crew 7	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:12:00 - [42] - Quote If respecs become a habit, why not have a respec every week then? Every day? Just allow people to undo skills whenever they want and get the SP back? Maybe remove the whole skill system while you're at it? And to make it even more fair, remove ISK too and let people just pick the gear they want. Yay, we have created Yet Another First-Person Shooter.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:15:00 - [43] - Quote ca ronic wrote: Only good points I see are for a respec. So much changed they deemed it necessary to give us a respec. My question is why only one, why not two or three or five? Game got a lot deeper when they crushed the value of skill points. If they dont make any drastic changes to the weapons then going tactical assault rifle is kind of a no brainer. Be really funny if everybody respecs into assault rifle and then ccp gives it a big nerf. lol. Wouldnt surprise me, so I'd probably spec the same thiing I have now. That one respec might be warranted. Not two five or whatever. The absolute value of Skillpoints has not changed. More SP meant an advantage in chromosome and still does. It's constant respecs that lower the value of SP since Specilization will have no consequences anymore. Not speccing into FOTM is the right call. Investing in an OP weapon in full knowledge of the imbalance makes you fully responsible if you end up with something you don't like, once it's back in line of the other roles.
ca ronic Moffit Bros 9	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:31:00 - [44] - Quote Dont make it a habbit. Just talking this one week leading up to the release. Let us try the new gear and test it, then we can prepare for planetary conquest.
ReGnUM Public Relations Imperfects Public Relations 208	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:32:00 - [45] - Quote My point: HTFU
DigiOps Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 205	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:34:00 - [46] - Quote Because running around with proto scrambler rifles the day they are released is a bit absurd. I'm in favor of a total wipe on the 14th.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 42	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:38:00 - [47] - Quote Iam Krogan wrote: Maybe remove the whole skill system while you're at it? And to make it even more fair, Fair...i don't see new players coming from other FPS games stomping on closed beta player faces as fair... But it would probably sell better....and i would actually play it. CCP has a choice: Keep it unfair as you claim and lose money or change it to my kind of unfair and maybe make money. Should we flip a coin as to which direction they will go?
Rannici Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 26	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:48:00 - [48] - Quote http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7677/1275813485144.jpg seriously. anyone screaming for another respec is a giant baby. ... do you think i'm happy to look like a banana/bumble bee in my proto logi gallente suit? no. but i'm going to suck it up and take one for the team. because that's what real men do. and i'm a man. ... or at least i'm pretty sure i have a *****. that means i'm a man right?
Lonnar KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 13	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:49:00 - [49] - Quote hooc order wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed. I want the SP/level system removed from the game so i can have fun playing the game NOW. This is an FPS i want all my FPS toys to play with now not in some distant future. I also want to beat or be beat by players who are on par with me...not be face stomped by horrible FPS EvE players who spent the last 6 months AFKing in the MCC. I'd have to politely disagree with you on this one. If you want to play an FPS game where everything is available to you either instantly or in a short space of time (cause even CoD has weapon unlocks at level ups), then go play a different FPS. As you have stated quite clearly, this game isn't for a traditional FPS player and in case you haven't noticed, it's perfectly intended to be this way. Take a look through FanFest 2012 videos regarding DUST 514 and you'll hear something interesting. It goes somewhat like this (I can't remember the words verbatim) "We wanted to show EvE players an aspect of the universe that's always been there ... just not nearly as detailed as we'd like it." In this they were referring to the surfaces of the thousands of planets in New Eden. And hey, after some meetings, discussions, ideas bounced around and whatever else they did. They ended up with the insane idea to make a MMOFPS game on the PS3, and they did it. Oh ... and in case you haven't noticed. CCP has heard about the AFK, MCC squatting scumbags and intends to do something about it. Look here at the Weekly Updates, there's a mention that the topic has in fact been seen and discussed. And hell, if you feel that the progress isn't enough on that front, take it up with one of our CPM members. I'm sure they'd be glad to push for a solution to that problem (if they haven't done so already)
ca ronic Moffit Bros 9	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:52:00 - [50] - Quote DigiOps wrote: Because running around with proto scrambler rifles the day they are released is a bit absurd. I'm in favor of a total wipe on the 14th. Works for me. I want to keep my isk though.

Kane Fyea BetaMax. CRONOS. 168	Posted - 2013.05.10 00:57:00 - [51] - Quote I say if you want another respec you should have to give 1mil SP or something.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 215	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:10:00 - [52] - Quote hooc order wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed. I want the SP/level system removed from the game so i can have fun playing the game NOW. This is an FPS i want all my FPS toys to play with now not in some distant future. I also want to beat or be beat by players who are on par with me...not be face stomped by horrible FPS EvE players who spent the last 6 months AFKing in the MCC. You didn't get face stomped because of afk.
BobThe843CakeMan Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 307	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:15:00 - [53] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: I say if you want another respec you should have to give 1mil SP or something. i'm not being punished because of CCPs mistakes.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 215	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:16:00 - [54] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset.... OP is sick and an idiot. OP meant respec ("Here, have your points back and respend") and not reset. Why, what foul and disrespectful language. The OP would be disappointed in such name calling! ED: And on topic - I believe this game should get a standardized respec. We got our free one already. Players should have the option to pay something prohibitive, like say 50,000 AUR, to respec again and again should they want it bad enough. EVE gives you one free attribute respec a year, as I recall, and you can pay for more after that. You can re allocate attributes that influence skill training but you cannot reallocate SP.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 196	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:39:00 - [55] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: You can re allocate attributes that influence skill training but you cannot reallocate SP. Very good point. I think I'm starting to come around to another respec being a bad idea...
ugg reset ZionTCD Unclaimed. 269	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:41:00 - [56] - Quote I didn't want the last respec or the one before that one. I'm sick of them so just let us play.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits 229	Posted - 2013.05.10 01:58:00 - [57] - Quote Purona wrote: they shjouldn't even think about respecs until new suits and vehicles are introduced This, ^ If CCP does it now, then people will complain when the new gear roles in. At least wait till that stuff is released.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 422	Posted - 2013.05.10 02:02:00 - [58] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Purona wrote: they shjouldn't even think about respecs until new suits and vehicles are introduced This, ^ If CCP does it now, then people will complain when the new gear roles in. At least wait till that stuff is released. So when they release the MAV, or maybe they should wait for the jets, or maybe they should wait for MTACs, etc.
Nstomper The Sangheli 396	Posted - 2013.05.10 02:03:00 - [59] - Quote My point https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75274&find=unread
Frontline Medic On-Sight-Response 6	Posted - 2013.05.10 02:06:00 - [60] - Quote did you not read the skills before putting point into them? I did and Im happy with my choices. no need for another respec,next time read up.



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