DUST Search - Those who argue for no reset: what are your points?

hooc order wrote:

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil.

To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position?

Be well.

I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be.

But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed.

I want the SP/level system removed from the game so i can have fun playing the game NOW. This is an FPS i want all my FPS toys to play with now not in some distant future. I also want to beat or be beat by players who are on par with me...not be face stomped by horrible FPS EvE players who spent the last 6 months AFKing in the MCC.

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Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Orion Empire 103	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:37:00 - [1] - Quote Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well.
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:39:00 - [2] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. My argument....CCP said that there was going to be NO MORE FULL SP RESETS.
Alina Heart DIOS EX. 108	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:39:00 - [3] - Quote I don't wanna have to spend 2-5 minutes reallocating my skill points. Damn those respec wanters, damn them!
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 382	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:42:00 - [4] - Quote After some deliberation with myself i've become torn between either wanting or not wanting another SP reset. Now, are we talking about a full SP wipe or just a reset?? (I assume the latter)
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 269	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:43:00 - [5] - Quote Skittles McDuckett wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. My argument....CCP said that there was going to be NO MORE FULL SP RESETS. Link?
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Orion Empire 103	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:45:00 - [6] - Quote XeroTheBigBoss wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. My argument....CCP said that there was going to be NO MORE FULL SP RESETS. Link? CCP specifically said no more resets, as in going to zero. I made an error in the original post. I meant respec. That post is here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=619126#post619126
Skittles McDuckett SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:46:00 - [7] - Quote Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset....
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 40	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:46:00 - [8] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 223	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:46:00 - [9] - Quote I don't see any need for a respec... maybe we could use a bit more RESPECT around here... but respec, nah.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 270	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:47:00 - [10] - Quote hooc order wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed. That's a core mechanic. No.

Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 382	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:48:00 - [11] - Quote I would like to respec, but I firmly believe in dealing with the consequences of your own actions (i.e. dumping all your SP into proto suits and broken weapons).
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Orion Empire 103	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:50:00 - [12] - Quote Skittles McDuckett wrote: Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset.... OP is sick and an idiot. OP meant respec ("Here, have your points back and respend") and not reset.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 416	Posted - 2013.05.09 21:51:00 - [13] - Quote The counter argument is that some worry it might set a standard of people demanding respecs whenever the slightest thing is not perfect or confusing. I am no longer opposed to a ONE TIME ONLY respec due to the skills being described differently. But I do not want respecs to be a part of this game after that.
Purona Militaires Sans Jeux 1	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:00:00 - [14] - Quote they shjouldn't even think about respecs until new suits and vehicles are introduced
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 559	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:03:00 - [15] - Quote I'd just like to see stupid people getting punished for their lack of patience and reading comprehenson, for once, there is generally too little of that going around.
Vethosis Universal Allies Inc. 33	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:04:00 - [16] - Quote We need a reset. Some of the aiming is horrible and it isn't fair for us to have to deal with it, at least give us the Skill Points back from weapons and dropsuits, as different dropsuits will use different weapons.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 40	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:05:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: hooc order wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed. That's a core mechanic. No. A core mechanic that is driving FPS players away from the game. Either it will go because CCP sees the light or it will go because the game isn't played by anyone. Note: one thing that could work is that a new player starts out with 5 million SP to fill a good role...more SP can be earned for a second role if they wanted it....this would allow players to delete characters at anytime if they didn't start off right...with no real loss. If i had to guess and CCP does see the light then this will probably be the direction they will go.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 416	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:05:00 - [18] - Quote Purona wrote: they shjouldn't even think about respecs until new suits and vehicles are introduced And here we go, the respec would NOT be due to new content, there will always be new content. This is the danger of allowing respecs, people will think its for the wrong reasons and I can already see the "why no respec for new vehicles, you did it before, unfair!!!" threads that will roll in.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Orion Empire 103	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:06:00 - [19] - Quote How the arguments so far are: 1. It sets a bad precedent to allow Respecialization. 2. People should live with the consequences. 3. I do not want to respend my points. Am I correct in this? Be well.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 195	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:09:00 - [20] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset.... OP is sick and an idiot. OP meant respec ("Here, have your points back and respend") and not reset. Why, what foul and disrespectful language. The OP would be disappointed in such name calling! ED: And on topic - I believe this game should get a standardized respec. We got our free one already. Players should have the option to pay something prohibitive, like say 50,000 AUR, to respec again and again should they want it bad enough. EVE gives you one free attribute respec a year, as I recall, and you can pay for more after that.

Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 642	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:12:00 - [21] - Quote Because skill points were reset to zero due to there being an almost complete change to the skill system. Now, they're simply adding new skills at release on the 14th. Who made mistakes at this opportunity to reallocate SP? Us. The ones with millions of SP. Now, is this not fair? New players can learn from OUR mistakes, OUR failures, and essentially gain an advantage over US. If we're going to give ourselves a chance to begin anew every bloody time we make a mistake, this world would be paradise. Learn from what we did wrong, teach the newbies what to do, and guess what? Suddenly, the SP system WORKS IN AN FPS. Bloody hell. Stop calling for another reallocation and start writing guides for newbies as to how they should go about spending SP wisely.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:12:00 - [22] - Quote The SP sytem is a means to define what your character can and can't do. By limiting SP accumulation and branching of the available options the system makes sure that every decision is a constant tradeoff that cannot be quickly rolled back, thus forcing you into watever role you chose for yourself and making your choices matter in the long run. Every respec undoes all decisions made by the players and allows them to define their role anew without any effort or time invested. It basically defeats the prime purpose of the underlying system. For this reason respecs should be avoided if at all possible in order to protect the integrity of the system. With the bugs in the skill system and changes already made after uprising we have somewhat of a special situation so i happen to believe a respec might be justified if a large enough number of the playerbase profits from it. What must not happen is going down the slippery slope and demanding a respec every time some change to skills or gear is performed because that will happen a lot down the road. Balancing is an ongoing effort, new eq or skills will be added over time and there will be a plethora of situations were part of the playerbase decides to abandon their role for the new FOTM. If they're allowed to so the SP system as a whole becomes obsolete. Hope this gives some perspective on the other side of the debate.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 416	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:12:00 - [23] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset.... OP is sick and an idiot. OP meant respec ("Here, have your points back and respend") and not reset. Why, what foul and disrespectful language. The OP would be disappointed in such name calling! The OP made a mistake, which is more forgivable than pure rudeness.
Delta 749 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 17	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:14:00 - [24] - Quote hooc order wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Note before we begin: we are all thinking human beings. I fully believe, even with the presence of total anonymity, that we can have rational and kind discussion. We may not agree on many things in our lives (the typical topics that divide us IRL) but we each played this game as Beta testers and we likely enjoyed it. So please, keep it civil. To those who state that there should be no more resets, what are your reasons for that position? Be well. I made a post about an SP reset yesterday. Th point of that post was to express a hypothetical so older players could step back and see the game in its current state as it is rather then what they hope it will be. But yeah I have 3 million SP and i think the whole SP/leveling system should be thrown in the garbage can. Not reset, trashed. I want the SP/level system removed from the game so i can have fun playing the game NOW. This is an FPS i want all my FPS toys to play with now not in some distant future. I also want to beat or be beat by players who are on par with me...not be face stomped by horrible FPS EvE players who spent the last 6 months AFKing in the MCC. A thousand times this, the skill system in use is a terrible fit for the genre of game this is
CYRAX SERVIUS The Generals EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:14:00 - [25] - Quote KingBabar wrote: I'd just like to see stupid people getting punished for their lack of patience and reading comprehenson, for once, there is generally too little of that going around. I agree 100%. Everyone went crazy getting proto this and super gun this, all of a sudden they have no skill points left. I have 8.5 mil sp and I did my reading and my math and research. I spent my sp damn wisely and thought about every skill and planned it out a week in advance. I got my proto with good skills to compliment it. Two solid mid price fits and a really good bpo fit and one weapon I really wanted. I'm doing just fine, now we skill up again to get all the goodies. To those of you that didn't think before you jumped, sorry.
Kyle Drysden Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:21:00 - [26] - Quote To be honest, I'm torn on this subject. I JUST got back into Dust yesterday, after having been gone for many months. When I last played, I was running in Proto AR gear but I've always fancied sniping, so I started to distribute my SP into Sniping. When I logged in yesterday, I took advantage of the respec and now I'm just about maxxed out in the Sniping tree, and I've leveled up a few in Dropsuits and Upgrades. To my disappointment, there seems to be major problems with sniping as of right now. I'll fire off a shot at a non-moving target and it just passes through them, and the aiming is so clunky it takes me forever to line up a shot. But would I respec? Probably not. I'm still doing quite good for the problems I'm having, and I'm not just playing for the K/D ratio. There's a difference in playing a sniper and playing a mercenary with a sniper rifle. I call out targets and warn teammates. The physical problems are problems with mechanics, which HOPEFULLY will be fixed in time. Plus, it's not anyone's fault but mine that I didn't come to the forums first to read up on the issues that snipers are having. I'm a firm believer that your SP is YOUR SP, and how you spend it is your responsibility. But what about the people who do feel cheated? I'm seeing a lot of posts on here about skills not doing what they advertise they do. I can sympathize with these people and in this case, it isn't their fault that they invested SP into a broken skill tree. Broken skills are gameplay mechanic problems, such as the aiming issues and hit detection. These things should be fixed in time. The question is how long, and are you willing to wait? I am, but not everyone is. When I logged in yesterday, I was given a dropsuit to redeem. Why, I don't know... so, it had me thinking. If you want to solve the problem, on 5/14 when the game is released, you are given a respec token of some sort to redeem when you log in. You have 24 or hours or so from the initial log in to redeem it. This will cater to both the for and the against
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Orion Empire 103	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:22:00 - [27] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset.... OP is sick and an idiot. OP meant respec ("Here, have your points back and respend") and not reset. Why, what foul and disrespectful language. The OP would be disappointed in such name calling! The OP made a mistake, which is more forgivable than pure rudeness. Don't worry Jin. Disturbingly Bored was not being rude. He was having a laugh at the fact that (if you look closely) I am the one who called myself an idiot. I just spoke in the third person. Be well.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 416	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:27:00 - [28] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Skittles McDuckett wrote: Are we talking about respec or reset? The post title says respec, but the OP says reset.... OP is sick and an idiot. OP meant respec ("Here, have your points back and respend") and not reset. Why, what foul and disrespectful language. The OP would be disappointed in such name calling! The OP made a mistake, which is more forgivable than pure rudeness. Don't worry Jin. Disturbingly Bored was not being rude. He was having a laugh at the fact that (if you look closely) I am the one who called myself an idiot. I just spoke in the third person. Be well. Ok no worries. I misunderstood, Its just that the forums are finally starting to be more productive and I want that trend to continue.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2888	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:31:00 - [29] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Because skill points were reset to zero due to there being an almost complete change to the skill system. Now, they're simply adding new skills at release on the 14th. Who made mistakes at this opportunity to reallocate SP? Us. The ones with millions of SP. Now, is this not fair? New players can learn from OUR mistakes, OUR failures, and essentially gain an advantage over US. If we're going to give ourselves a chance to begin anew every bloody time we make a mistake, this world would be paradise. Learn from what we did wrong, teach the newbies what to do, and guess what? Suddenly, the SP system WORKS IN AN FPS. Bloody hell. Stop calling for another reallocation and start writing guides for newbies as to how they should go about spending SP wisely. I'm just going to ask... You ARE aware of the problems with several vehicle skills not actually applying the bonus in their description, right? Vehicle Engineering being a notable one for which the description is something not merely useful, but important for many builds from Chromosome, and the actual effect is almost totally worthless for any build. Many tankers, LAV racers and Dropship Pilots have invested heavily into skills that don't actually combine the way the descriptions told us they would, and because of that, we need a way to at least clear our vehicle tree so we can start over - preferably with the skill descriptions and effects actually matched up this time.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 371	Posted - 2013.05.09 22:36:00 - [30] - Quote I want to see the sandbox pure. Bad decisions punished, -stability-. If respec is allowed now, will the path lead to more and more catering to mediocrity? EVE does not cater to mediocrity. It's a very unforgiving game and just that purity of design makes it stable and interesting. Dust needs to step up the standards and harden the f up so that it can one day become a part of the intriguing sandbox. Another topic are reimbursements for broken skill descriptions. Everyone should be refunded the SP spent on vehicle electronics and dropsuit shield skills taken for vehicle shields.



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