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NOT slap26
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2013.05.10 02:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:
Another topic are reimbursements for broken skill descriptions. Everyone should be refunded the SP spent on vehicle electronics and dropsuit shield skills taken for vehicle shields.
We should get all the SP we spent on vehicles back because we spent those skill point in good faith thinking that CCP would patch the pg skill and make it work. Instead they said that they "kittened" up the skill description that we all were counting on to create a fit. without that skill there is no point to go into vehicles if you want to have any chance of survivability.
Basically to give infantry guys an example, it would be like if they took away the dropsuit cpu skills while only giving you standard suits. Try and make a decent fit with that.
Also we don't have any skills that reduce the PG consumption of our weapons. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Orion Empire
105
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Posted - 2013.05.10 02:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
How the arguments so far are:
1. It sets a bad precedent to allow Respecialization. 2. People should live with the consequences. 3. I do not want to respend my points. 4. It would allow players to have Prototype gear extremely early
Am I correct in this?
Please try to include different arguments. I have a good grip on what the Pro side is speaking but have heard few different arguments from the Con side.
Be well. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
278
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Posted - 2013.05.10 02:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Purona wrote:they shjouldn't even think about respecs until new suits and vehicles are introduced This, ^ If CCP does it now, then people will complain when the new gear roles in. At least wait till that stuff is released. So when they release the MAV, or maybe they should wait for the jets, or maybe they should wait for MTACs, etc. I repeat.
Sloth9230 wrote:Yes, but something like the commander or pilot suit getting added is different than us getting the missing scout and heavy suits. Those two, along with assaults and logis, are the 4 main roles, and I don't understand why CCP would ever release the game without them. (although it seems logis are now considered a secondary role ) It's simply unfair that scouts and especially heavies have no alternatives while assaults and logis have all 4 suits to choose from. This isn't just new content, it's content that should have been here by the time of release. The fact that it's not is a failure on CCP's part, and the players should not be punished because of it. So yes, we need a respec, but only once the rest of the content is here.
Obviously there will always be new content, but there is certain content that should considered the bare minimum. That would include the other 5 racial suits, and the other 5-7(I think) vehicles. Why CCP would decide to release without them baffles me, but players shouldn't be punished because CCP wanted to go with a clever release date.
Edit: And CCP should flesh out our current roles/gear before they attempt to add new ones like the speeder. |
Professormohawk
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
51
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Posted - 2013.05.10 03:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
a undo is all that's needed. for the "oh, f%#$ me" mistakes, ones caught right after being made |
Mark0h
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
17
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Posted - 2013.05.10 03:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
I don't understand why a simple 5/14 respec would bother anybody. We tested the game for 8 days with the new skills. Some are broken(vehicle pg) some items that require sp were shadow nerfed (mass driver blast radius) and it's the official release!!! Cammaaaaan (= |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.05.10 03:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
I disagree with SP reallocation but in this case there are not racial variants of all suits and weapons. Either they should have released it a little faster or waited for full launch. The missing suits and weapons are the only reasons to justify the respec and then only into the wsapon or suit type.
Scrambler rifle would allow for light weapon only to be refunded. New Heavy suits for SP spent on the only heavy we have.
Though this would only cover the very first set of suits and weapons. ANYTHING after that would not be good. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
278
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Posted - 2013.05.10 03:26:00 -
[67] - Quote
It took me 2 mill SP just to figure out that the "class/role" bonuses from the racial skills don't stack , I blame CCPs bad wording!
lol, j.k. but a disclaimer would have been nice "Yo, the logistics bonus only applies to suits that require this skill tree, don't skill into another tree dumbass." |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
279
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Posted - 2013.05.10 03:31:00 -
[68] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:I disagree with SP reallocation but in this case there are not racial variants of all suits and weapons. Either they should have released it a little faster or waited for full launch. The missing suits and weapons are the only reasons to justify the respec and then only into the wsapon or suit type.
Scrambler rifle would allow for light weapon only to be refunded. New Heavy suits for SP spent on the only heavy we have.
Though this would only cover the very first set of suits and weapons. ANYTHING after that would not be good. Agree'd, but it should really apply to all dropsuit skills. I'm sure there's people who spec'd into medium suits because they didn't like the light or heavy suits available. |
Ziero01
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
12
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Posted - 2013.05.10 04:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Imo, the only reasons to allow respecs should be:
1) A massive change or addition to the skill system. When they add new gear, new skills, new vehicles and so forth, be should be able to access them to see if they work. It would be an infrequent event and would keep players having the same amount of SP total, but give players a chance to try out the new stuff and become proficient in that if they prefer it over the previous set ups.
OR
2) An annual, once a year thing. To keep older players who start getting bored with their fits interested, allowing them to spend all their points in something else to change up their roles. Again, infrequent and something players would have to live with until the next respec 364 days away.
OR
3) An Aurum based, time restricted reset option. You made a mistake and have to change your SP? Well you gotta pay for that. Having to pay rl cash would help limit some players on the amount of times they respeced while giving it a time restriction (once ever X months) would limit the rest. If players want to respec, they'd be able to, but they'd do it at the cost of giving CCP more money so the game can grow overall.
Respecs in and of themselves aren't terrible, as long as they're not a frequently repeated event.
p.s. to those who want to do away with the skill system all together, all I have to say is LOLno. If you want instant gratification go play something else. In this game, you have to fight for your rewards, and the harder the struggle the sweeter the victory. This isn't just another FPS, it's an MMOFPSRPG. This world is a living breathing entity and you're just a germ to it, New Eden will still go on whether you're here or not. This is not a game for people who want things "now", this is something you will need to invest lots of time and LOTS of effort into. But once you paid your dues, the enjoyment will come, and be far more gratifying then just having everything handed to you right from the start. |
DigiOps
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2013.05.10 04:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
No skill system would turn this into Call of Duty in space. We don't need more of those games around. I like that this game is so heavily focused on team work and I like working for that extra couple of percents in reload speed or CPU. Its very rewarding for me. |
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copy left
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
135
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Posted - 2013.05.10 05:25:00 -
[71] - Quote
HOW ABOUT THE FULL FLUCKING (READ THAT WORD AGAIN) GAME RELEASE IS IN 4 FLUCKING (AGAIN) DAYS .
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Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
681
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Posted - 2013.05.10 05:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
Don't want respec and laugh at those who cry about it, but in some ways I secretly wish for it cause they screwed HAVs to such an extend that I'd probably not spend all my SP on it next time. |
Rupture Reaperson
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
119
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Posted - 2013.05.10 05:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
I dont see an issue with it, especially considering various points. 1) 5/14 its a release date, so they can get away with the respec, since its "the launch day", sounds fitting and fits as a One time only deal. 2) HMG Heavies. 3) The whole PG tank debacle. 4) HMG Heavies. 5) What if someone want to be a minmatar heavy or an Amarr scout? 6) HMG heavies, I mean seriously poor folks whose only way to do decently its sinkin full proto suit/weapon and still struggle with matches outside of pubs. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
133
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Posted - 2013.05.10 05:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
I'm a bit concerned about respec.. density. There are lots of bugs being worked through now - the one where vehicle users had to use dropsuit skills to fit things is an obvious one. Now it's fixed I hear... they didn't get that SP back. They skilled into dropsuit shields TO use vehicles, it seems reasonable to do so... but it would be hard to handle all those on an individual basis. Respec makes sense there, no?
What about the nerf bat? People have skilled into Caldari logistics and other things because of it's perceived strength, or logi preference... whatever. It has a synergy of skills, slots, etc. that work for both I suppose. What if some of the suggestions for logi nerfs went through and restricted them to sidearms only (which Logis wouldn't skill because they have no sidearm slot), and/or cut their slots and changed their passives. That's a pretty drastic change to the basis of the class/role. Justified to let people respec then, right? They'd literally be unable to use the weapons they skilled up in that scenario.
What about new content? We haven't fixed uprising issues, and there's a batch of new content due on the 14th, what if they respec'd on the 14th and a whole new set of issues came up with scramblers, new suits, or balance changes that drastically changed things because of PC? Is another respec after that justified?
It seems like all of these are reasonable times to respec, I'd just be worried about the long-time integrity of the game if people were literally getting respec options every time anything changed slightly. However, I'd say a huge rebalance on something like Caldari logistics (as above) would seem to warrant it - that's 5 million SP flushed, more than many players even have if they completely changed something like that.
The staggered release of suits is also troubling, because you know some people would prefer variants that aren't out yet, and what happens when they are released? Do we get a respec.. or is it skilling from ground zero even if you wanted to be a Minmatar heavy from the get-go. The problem with the suit release is there are no set dates. If we knew "new suits in June", that's different from "new suits in October" as far as deciding to save points knowing there won't be a respec. It's hard to "plan" or save at all if you can't know what will come. |
Lonnar
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
15
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:I'm a bit concerned about respec.. density. There are lots of bugs being worked through now - the one where vehicle users had to use dropsuit skills to fit things is an obvious one. Now it's fixed I hear... they didn't get that SP back. They skilled into dropsuit shields TO use vehicles, it seems reasonable to do so... but it would be hard to handle all those on an individual basis. Respec makes sense there, no?
What about the nerf bat? People have skilled into Caldari logistics and other things because of it's perceived strength, or logi preference... whatever. It has a synergy of skills, slots, etc. that work for both I suppose. What if some of the suggestions for logi nerfs went through and restricted them to sidearms only (which Logis wouldn't skill because they have no sidearm slot), and/or cut their slots and changed their passives. That's a pretty drastic change to the basis of the class/role. Justified to let people respec then, right? They'd literally be unable to use the weapons they skilled up in that scenario.
What about new content? We haven't fixed uprising issues, and there's a batch of new content due on the 14th, what if they respec'd on the 14th and a whole new set of issues came up with scramblers, new suits, or balance changes that drastically changed things because of PC? Is another respec after that justified?
It seems like all of these are reasonable times to respec, I'd just be worried about the long-time integrity of the game if people were literally getting respec options every time anything changed slightly. However, I'd say a huge rebalance on something like Caldari logistics (as above) would seem to warrant it - that's 5 million SP flushed, more than many players even have if they completely changed something like that.
The staggered release of suits is also troubling, because you know some people would prefer variants that aren't out yet, and what happens when they are released? Do we get a respec.. or is it skilling from ground zero even if you wanted to be a Minmatar heavy from the get-go. The problem with the suit release is there are no set dates. If we knew "new suits in June", that's different from "new suits in October" as far as deciding to save points knowing there won't be a respec. It's hard to "plan" or save at all if you can't know what will come.
I like your reasoning. In fact I agree with it completely.
However something you must have noticed is that you're describing events that happen on an individual basis. Understandably, there are a large number of Heavies, a large number of people going for the Scrambler Rifle and so on, but let's take your suit example and expand upon it a little bit here.
If I remember rightly, the new Pilot suit will be a Light Frame suit. I don't recall if there was a race attached to it when it was announced (perhaps Caldari?) so inform/correct me if I'm mistaken. Now let's say, I've skilled into Dropships and Minmatar Logistics. We can already deduce by just this that I'm flying a Dropship, and when I'm not flying I'm probably a LogiBro. Since I do have skills in a vehicle, it would only seem natural that I'd want a respec in my suit related skills in order to get the Pilot suit right? Now let's also say that ... there are about 500 other players out there who share similar situations. It would also be safe to assume that all 500 of those other individuals would want to respec into the Pilot suit as well right? So then what happens? CCP can't exactly refund all the SP related to dropsuits to every single player, there's only 501 of us who want it. Conversely, CCP can't exactly refund all dropsuit SP to all 501 of us one at a time ... it would take too much time. Time they could be spending on fixing bugs, working on new content, and so on. If they devised a system to refund all dropsuit SP to everyone who skilled up in vehicle skills ... what happens to those who actually don't want to Pilot suit (since I imagine there's more than 500 people out there who specced into vehicles)? They'd get a semi-intentional SP refund to use on skills they were already plugged into before. Refunding specific skills for specific new content is sketchy. Best leave that alone tbh.
On your final point, I do agree that we need to be given clearer information as to when certain new content is being released so we as players can plan for its arrival. If I knew exactly when the Pilot suit would be launched, I'd be one of the first in line to start saving up my SP in order to get it on release. But that's what our CPM is there for right? To help deliver that information to us more promptly and more clearly than ever before. |
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