Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

Gives random numbers, doesn't even understand what kind of impact those numbers make

Less range, lower base damage, AND the loss of two potential damage mods.

Sounds fair, right?

lol.

Yea, the HMG can go **** itself. There were already superior options, now it's just worthless. EVE is so lucky that it has a guy like soundwave who actually has a realistic idea of what things in his game actually do. This clearly isn't the case for Dust.

I don't know if you realize what one meter is, but it's insignificant. If you were referring to the one damage point, I think you should be so lucky that they only took off one point of damage.

lol w/e man

Edit: they should bring down ARs to 29 damage per shot while they're at it.

CCP did go a little far with the nerf. There is no reason to nerf the HMG...both range nor damage. Wiithout the SS skill, the HMG range was fine.

I definitely don't agree ......and I don't like heavies

Heavy is trash now.... cant wait to see the fat man eat flaylocks, lasers, scramblers, mass drivers.....

CCP logic = " so the heavy needs to be nerfed."
Other dev " why?"
"Well im not really sure why but apparently it can tickle people at 90 meters"
Other dev "huh... we could nerf range movement speed and dmg....."
" hey great idea! That way they cant shoot medium range, or deal mediocre dmg and they cant even move fast enough to engage people because they are slower...."
Other dev " yes.... I think we fixed it..."
" but dont you think they will be mad?"
Other dev " who cares most of our money comes from the AR assault player base... so screw the fatties."

Screw the minority to please the masses. Logic.

That does make sense actually lol

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

lolCCP and numbers. We're lucky we got patch notes.

Unnerf it CCP

Not gonna happen. # of Assault player > # of Heavies

#'s = money. More Assault players happy, the more money

Hey, Assault players are happy. That's all that matters bro.

Nerfing range was only needed when SS was still in. Without SS there was no reason for a range nerf but now nerfing dmg was just unnecessary.

Heavy solo != win.

Heavy in group or against vehicles == iWin button.


Heavies need to play their role and they will do just fine. Or perhaps... I dunno, maybe start doing AV? HP buff, HMG nerf... seems obvious to me. Tired of having to take up heavy slack and do AV myself as a glass cannon assault player.

1. Spec into heavy suits
2. Get a friend to spec into logi suits
3............
4. Profit!

I know what you are thinking. "Why should I need a second person to make my suit playable?" Because logi's need you just as much as you need them.

......?

I'm kinda finished with this whole heavies are worthless thing. Seeing and hearing heavies gonna switch roles to something else pretty much says it all.

But a serious question to the community...heavy haters and all. Was the damage nerf needed? I mean, I understand the range was part of all the "Heavies are OP" threads, but a damage nerf WITH a range nerf?!!

Seems overkill. We're talking about a minigun here basically. A dude in a fat suit, holding a ******* minigun. Let's forget about real life here for a second, cuz in real life those things have range.

Balance > Realism

The role is suppose to be defense / area denial / choke points. How is the role filled now, when the dmg and range has been nerfed? Can't an Assault player do the same job? Put down a nanohive, spam nades, and shoot his AR. Doesn't that seem viable? A logi can rep him the same way he can a heavy.

Just pointing out, that nerfing the damage on a HEAVY MACHINE GUN was not needed when the range was nerfed too. Yeah we got an HP buff... cool, but i would have gladly kept the same HP I have now if it meant I have the same dmg though, but w/e.

This is really disappointing. I guess all the haters can rejoice. I applaud your efforts on the forums. Game well played. I won't be making another thread on the matter. This disappointment only shows me that CCP doesn't care about heavies.

See you out there on the battlefield.

Oh, feel free to troll and laugh... I can use a couple good laughs

But a serious question to the community...heavy haters and all. Was the damage nerf needed? I mean, I understand the range was part of all the "Heavies are OP" threads, but a damage nerf WITH a range nerf?!!

Seems overkill. We're talking about a minigun here basically. A dude in a fat suit, holding a ******* minigun. Let's forget about real life here for a second, cuz in real life those things have range.

As a shotgun scout, I agree the dual impact of shorter range and lower damage is too much nerf. I think their range was a bit too long, as I get mowed down from 50m in a second. But lowering damage at the same time doesn't make sense.

One thing that hasn't received much attention is the rather huge change that sprint strafing is enabled in Uprising, which will make the lives of heavies even harder.

Gives random numbers, doesn't even understand what kind of impact those numbers make

Lol that is the dumbist thing ive ever read. On par with the patch notes

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

Can't tell if you were referring to my post or his.

Well let's do a little comparison now?
Standard SMG: 21.0 damage, 1000 ROF.
Standard HMG:16 damage, 2000 ROF.

A heavy weapon. That's right, a mobile installation, does less damage than a sidearm. I think that's a bit heavy on the nerf hammer.

P.S. Don't even try to argue either, i have the game pulled up right now
Now let's do an optimal scenario: Proto HMG Vs. Assault SMG.
Boundless HMG: 17.6 Damage. 2000 ROF. 35200 DPM
Assault SMG: 21.0 Damage: 1052.6 ROF. 22092 DPM
Regardless of DPS. Shouldn't a FLIPPIN MINIGUN do MORE than a GODDAMN MACHINE PISTOL?!!
AR Whiny babies. Like CCP "used" to like to say to you guys: Harden The Kitten Up.

........?
Well, to begin with, Balance>Realism, which I believe Lance has said so himself, so your argument in invalid, but just so you know a minigun in real life USUALLY (don't hate on me for special case scenarios, I said "usually") fires 9mm bullets, the same as MOST real-life SMGs, so it would make sense that it does roughly the same damage.

........?
Well, to begin with, Balance>Realism, which I believe Lance has said so himself, so your argument in invalid, but just so you know a minigun in real life USUALLY (don't hate on me for special case scenarios, I said "usually") fires 9mm bullets, the same as MOST real-life SMGs, so it would make sense that it does roughly the same damage.

........?
Well, to begin with, Balance>Realism, which I believe Lance has said so himself, so your argument in invalid, but just so you know a minigun in real life USUALLY (don't hate on me for special case scenarios, I said "usually") fires 9mm bullets, the same as MOST real-life SMGs, so it would make sense that it does roughly the same damage.

To the dumb one

My point is that the HMG losing 1 point of damage would affect it more than if say an AR lost 1 point of damage.
1 point of damage is 6.25% percent of the HMG's damage

I forget what the AR damage is, but I'm pretty sure it's 31
31 x 6.25 = 1.9375
31 - 1.9375 = 29.0625

So go, cut their base power and then tell them they're lucky all they lost is 6.25% percent, see if they don't flip out.

The same is true for the range. 1 HMG meter is not equal to 1 AR meter, at least not percentage wise.

CCP did go a little far with the nerf. There is no reason to nerf the HMG...both range nor damage. Wiithout the SS skill, the HMG range was fine.

I definitely don't agree ......and I don't like heavies

You want the forum to crash?!!!! The amount of crying that will be seen here would be stuff even EVE will take note of.

That does make sense actually lol

As a shotgun scout, I agree the dual impact of shorter range and lower damage is too much nerf. I think their range was a bit too long, as I get mowed down from 50m in a second. But lowering damage at the same time doesn't make sense.

One thing that hasn't received much attention is the rather huge change that sprint strafing is enabled in Uprising, which will make the lives of heavies even harder.

Think of it this way:
CoDboys have been QQing about everything, HAV, LAV, AV, Snipers, Mass Drivers, and Heavies... again... and again... and... you get the point. They have the advantage 1v1, your gun shoots spitballs and they can now (literally) run circles around you. Step up your game. They might have won the nerf war with their tears, but there are plenty of tears to be shed at their expense. Take your beloved role, your nerfed weapon, terrible turning speed and take the fight to them in game. With everything so much easier to these ARs now, dying to you will be the ultimate insult. Make a list of all the players you killed to show how much they suck because they still can't kill a heavy, even when the game makes it as easy as possible. From may 6th and onward, any AR Assault that can't solo a heavy sucks at Dust 514.

So Heavies have to play even harder while AR users can just easy mode their way though the game? Even the best heavies right now can't top the best AR users Kill wise. Their great range and excellent hip fire accuracy make ARs supremely good at killing things from all but the longest of ranges, While heavies with HMGs have to slowly, painfully, maneuver closer to enemies only to be swarmed by 3 or 4 guys with ARs because you light up like a nuke on everyone's minimap from a mile away.

So heavies are sidelined to being defense only. Which is what people want it sounds like.

You're missing my intended point. Don't let CCP appealing to the lowest denominator kill your love of variety. If the ARs want to nerf you to paper armor with spitball bullets. Fine! But this works two fold. As weak as you are now, killing an AR should be a slap to the face of them as everything is to their advantage now. So when they QQ to the forums about how heavies are still OP, everyone can tell them to HTFU!

So heavies are sidelined to being defense only. Which is what people want it sounds like.

They just want you to be defense only so that they can say "lol camper, learn to play noob"

While ignoring the fact that they've forced you into the role

^ this guy mad about something? All I see is obvious butthurt from being molested by an HMG too many times.

Ice now, heat later. Takes the pain away.

........?
Well, to begin with, Balance>Realism, which I believe Lance has said so himself, so your argument in invalid, but just so you know a minigun in real life USUALLY (don't hate on me for special case scenarios, I said "usually") fires 9mm bullets, the same as MOST real-life SMGs, so it would make sense that it does roughly the same damage.

No, dozens of baw thread will happen everyday and the Heavy will be nerfed AGAIN, this has been the case since the beta began. Nerf after nerf until the heavy is nothing but a slower, less slotted version of the Assault with more HP but greatly reduced speed.

**** that, I'm running logi.

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

^ this guy mad about something? All I see is obvious butthurt from being molested by an HMG too many times.

Ice now, heat later. Takes the pain away.

You goddamn idiot. I'm trying to skill up to use the Gastun's HMG. I already have the Ishukone forge gun. All of my arguments are in FAVOR of everything heavy-related.

If you weren't referring to me, then I apologize. Next time, quote who you're talking to.

With the HMG nerf.. I propose to only use forge guns.. Even against infantry. Nothing makes ppl rage more than seeing a militia forge gun killed you lol.

Boycott the HMG to show how bad they screwed up!!

So while having the lowest HP in the game, you think you die too fast? Maybe you should ask CCP to buff scout suits, instead of nerfing the machine guns.

Well I've been reading this long thread for a quite some time now with an analytical mind , guys, and you guys know that I like to analyse all possible information before going over board with a knee jerk reaction, boys and girls. Now everyone who knows me, know that I used to be a heavy last build, so I guess I you could say I know a thing or two about the topic. Now I've commented on a few heavy threads before and managed to calm the heavy community down (some people thought heavies will go extinct monday) a notch by explaining the raw logic behind the whole sharpshooter thing. Well, guys, let me hit you from the "Ric Barlom angle" here and maybe I can help you guys with some perspective on this whole issue.

Now first of all let me address this whole range nerf, and guys let's be exact here: We're talking about MAX range reduction here. Optimal range will still be the same. You see, most heavy dudes know that it's very hard to kill people at the maximum range with the HMG because of the bullet spread so this nerf will most likely have a very little effect on the battlefield situation. And oh yeah, it's still a nerf, I get it. Let's be honest though, not that of a big deal.

Now let's talk about that damage nerf. Well, guys, this is a bigger deal no question about it but I'd like to advice the heavy community to calm down a notch because let's be honest here, guys: We don't know the numbers. And let me tell you something else while I'm at it: we can look at the individual changes and get pissed off all we want, but until we see the bigger picture of how all of these different changes work together, we don't really know ****!

So guys I know we're all passionate about this game, and let me tell you there's not many people who are more passionate about this game than I am, but I'd suggest that we test these things out before we start planning protests and calling out CCP developers and game designers idiots and assholes! These guys are people too so let's give them a break because being a developer isn't a cake walk of a job anyways! Peace out!

the optimal range will not be changed, the optimal of the proto HMG will still be the same as the proto AR.
what is going to be reduced is the max. range aka falloff by a minor amount.

the damage nerf is also minor, you will be still doing the most dps up close. you will also still be the one with the most suit ehp and being able to carry a heavy weapon.

and what many people forget is that the cost of the suits and the weapons will be normalized, that means you will pay the same amount of isk as any other suit and you also get that much performance you paid for. you are not supposed to get more than you paid for. isk matters and is also a big factor in balance.

So you're saying currently my 250K proto suit means I have a tank? Pretty sure it has the same stats as a B- series.

So it's alright if my suit is over priced, but all of a sudden it's "you are not supposed to get more from less isk than everyone else"... double standards.

Again, using price as logic fails. They added 75 more HP to the suit, so that means my suit SHOULD cost 250K++ right? Your logic says I'm not suppose to get more for less ISK.

The way you speak makes me laugh

Nobody called the devs "assholes" and "idiots"...and tbh, I'm not comfortable with that language in a thread that I tried to keep flame free, and as troll less as possible.

I asked if it was right to nerf both range and damage at the same time. No need to go on a tangent.

The way you speak makes me laugh

Nobody called the devs "assholes" and "idiots"...and tbh, I'm not comfortable with that language in a thread that I tried to keep flame free, and as troll less as possible.

I asked if it was right to nerf both range and damage at the same time. No need to go on a tangent.

Well you might have a point there, 2ballz, perhaps this "R Bomb" like I tend to call my more analytical posts, is more suited to one of the other threads, man. And to answer your question if it was a right thing to do to nerf the HMG in two different ways at the same time, man, well let me hit you from a different angle here: I don't know because we haven't tested the build. You see, br, it's the big picture that matters and not the individual changes so let's calm down and wait until we get to test things out. Pece out!

I agree about waiting and seeing. I've always said it, but my cynical attitude compels me to express my concerns. I agree we should test it out, but I still think nerfing both at the same time wasn't the correct way of doing it.

Nerf one thing, test it out, see how that goes, then decide to nerf the other. Well, at least that's how I imagined things get balanced.

Anyone remember what happened to missile turrets? Yeah they nerfed it, but we saw how that was nerfed. Too much tweaking done at the same time.

While CCP has a history of over reacting with their changes, many of their more careful balance changes have been successful too. We tend to focus on the **** ups though! Now in this case it all depends on the numbers on the damage nerf. And, 2ballz, I still think that the MAX range nerf won't be a big deal, and quite honestly, man, I'm pretty sure you think so too!

My problem, as stated a number of times, is nerfing both dmg and range at once. You can say CCP's had success in the past with balancing, and I can disagree, and we'll both be right cuz CCP has made some good changes, and made some bad ones.

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

Hell yeah. +1

People complaining about nerfs on a patch where everything changed, laughable.

Llan Heindell.

People have a right to complain, or in this case discuss. I asked a question, and the thread is about answers...or to be more precise,opinions.

What's your input in the matter? Or are you here to complain about "complainers"...

Here is my opinion on the matter:
You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't yet played the patch.
Bring this thread back after may 6th. So you'll have some base to support your theory that heavies are terrible and bla bla.

Llan Heindell.

Here is my opinion on the matter:
You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't yet played the patch.
Bring this thread back after may 6th. So you'll have some base to support your theory that heavies are terrible and bla bla.

Llan Heindell.

The smallest caliber a mini gun fires is 7.62, most certainly NOT 9mm. They go up to 30mm, which is what the GAU-8 Avenger fires. Our mini guns must be firing pellets of sand to do so little damage.

[quote=Spkr4theDead][quote=Logi Bro][quote=Lynn Beck][quote=Logi Bro] The A-10 Warthog is one of the baddest planes ever to fly.

because we have history on our side, CCP never TWEAKS heavy suits and weapons, they fuckin SMASH them to bits with their nerf hammer