So heavies are sidelined to being defense only. Which is what people want it sounds like.

They just want you to be defense only so that they can say "lol camper, learn to play noob"

While ignoring the fact that they've forced you into the role

^ this guy mad about something? All I see is obvious butthurt from being molested by an HMG too many times.

Ice now, heat later. Takes the pain away.

........?
Well, to begin with, Balance>Realism, which I believe Lance has said so himself, so your argument in invalid, but just so you know a minigun in real life USUALLY (don't hate on me for special case scenarios, I said "usually") fires 9mm bullets, the same as MOST real-life SMGs, so it would make sense that it does roughly the same damage.

No, dozens of baw thread will happen everyday and the Heavy will be nerfed AGAIN, this has been the case since the beta began. Nerf after nerf until the heavy is nothing but a slower, less slotted version of the Assault with more HP but greatly reduced speed.

**** that, I'm running logi.

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

^ this guy mad about something? All I see is obvious butthurt from being molested by an HMG too many times.

Ice now, heat later. Takes the pain away.

You goddamn idiot. I'm trying to skill up to use the Gastun's HMG. I already have the Ishukone forge gun. All of my arguments are in FAVOR of everything heavy-related.

If you weren't referring to me, then I apologize. Next time, quote who you're talking to.

With the HMG nerf.. I propose to only use forge guns.. Even against infantry. Nothing makes ppl rage more than seeing a militia forge gun killed you lol.

Boycott the HMG to show how bad they screwed up!!

So while having the lowest HP in the game, you think you die too fast? Maybe you should ask CCP to buff scout suits, instead of nerfing the machine guns.

Well I've been reading this long thread for a quite some time now with an analytical mind , guys, and you guys know that I like to analyse all possible information before going over board with a knee jerk reaction, boys and girls. Now everyone who knows me, know that I used to be a heavy last build, so I guess I you could say I know a thing or two about the topic. Now I've commented on a few heavy threads before and managed to calm the heavy community down (some people thought heavies will go extinct monday) a notch by explaining the raw logic behind the whole sharpshooter thing. Well, guys, let me hit you from the "Ric Barlom angle" here and maybe I can help you guys with some perspective on this whole issue.

Now first of all let me address this whole range nerf, and guys let's be exact here: We're talking about MAX range reduction here. Optimal range will still be the same. You see, most heavy dudes know that it's very hard to kill people at the maximum range with the HMG because of the bullet spread so this nerf will most likely have a very little effect on the battlefield situation. And oh yeah, it's still a nerf, I get it. Let's be honest though, not that of a big deal.

Now let's talk about that damage nerf. Well, guys, this is a bigger deal no question about it but I'd like to advice the heavy community to calm down a notch because let's be honest here, guys: We don't know the numbers. And let me tell you something else while I'm at it: we can look at the individual changes and get pissed off all we want, but until we see the bigger picture of how all of these different changes work together, we don't really know ****!

So guys I know we're all passionate about this game, and let me tell you there's not many people who are more passionate about this game than I am, but I'd suggest that we test these things out before we start planning protests and calling out CCP developers and game designers idiots and assholes! These guys are people too so let's give them a break because being a developer isn't a cake walk of a job anyways! Peace out!

the optimal range will not be changed, the optimal of the proto HMG will still be the same as the proto AR.
what is going to be reduced is the max. range aka falloff by a minor amount.

the damage nerf is also minor, you will be still doing the most dps up close. you will also still be the one with the most suit ehp and being able to carry a heavy weapon.

and what many people forget is that the cost of the suits and the weapons will be normalized, that means you will pay the same amount of isk as any other suit and you also get that much performance you paid for. you are not supposed to get more than you paid for. isk matters and is also a big factor in balance.

So you're saying currently my 250K proto suit means I have a tank? Pretty sure it has the same stats as a B- series.

So it's alright if my suit is over priced, but all of a sudden it's "you are not supposed to get more from less isk than everyone else"... double standards.

Again, using price as logic fails. They added 75 more HP to the suit, so that means my suit SHOULD cost 250K++ right? Your logic says I'm not suppose to get more for less ISK.

The way you speak makes me laugh

Nobody called the devs "assholes" and "idiots"...and tbh, I'm not comfortable with that language in a thread that I tried to keep flame free, and as troll less as possible.

I asked if it was right to nerf both range and damage at the same time. No need to go on a tangent.

The way you speak makes me laugh

Nobody called the devs "assholes" and "idiots"...and tbh, I'm not comfortable with that language in a thread that I tried to keep flame free, and as troll less as possible.

I asked if it was right to nerf both range and damage at the same time. No need to go on a tangent.

Well you might have a point there, 2ballz, perhaps this "R Bomb" like I tend to call my more analytical posts, is more suited to one of the other threads, man. And to answer your question if it was a right thing to do to nerf the HMG in two different ways at the same time, man, well let me hit you from a different angle here: I don't know because we haven't tested the build. You see, br, it's the big picture that matters and not the individual changes so let's calm down and wait until we get to test things out. Pece out!

I agree about waiting and seeing. I've always said it, but my cynical attitude compels me to express my concerns. I agree we should test it out, but I still think nerfing both at the same time wasn't the correct way of doing it.

Nerf one thing, test it out, see how that goes, then decide to nerf the other. Well, at least that's how I imagined things get balanced.

Anyone remember what happened to missile turrets? Yeah they nerfed it, but we saw how that was nerfed. Too much tweaking done at the same time.

While CCP has a history of over reacting with their changes, many of their more careful balance changes have been successful too. We tend to focus on the **** ups though! Now in this case it all depends on the numbers on the damage nerf. And, 2ballz, I still think that the MAX range nerf won't be a big deal, and quite honestly, man, I'm pretty sure you think so too!

My problem, as stated a number of times, is nerfing both dmg and range at once. You can say CCP's had success in the past with balancing, and I can disagree, and we'll both be right cuz CCP has made some good changes, and made some bad ones.

Do you have specific numbers? For all you know the range was nerfed by 1 meter and damage by 1 point. How about you wait til you play the build to decide what you think is OP and UP?

Hell yeah. +1

People complaining about nerfs on a patch where everything changed, laughable.

Llan Heindell.

People have a right to complain, or in this case discuss. I asked a question, and the thread is about answers...or to be more precise,opinions.

What's your input in the matter? Or are you here to complain about "complainers"...

Here is my opinion on the matter:
You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't yet played the patch.
Bring this thread back after may 6th. So you'll have some base to support your theory that heavies are terrible and bla bla.

Llan Heindell.

Here is my opinion on the matter:
You don't know what you're talking about because you haven't yet played the patch.
Bring this thread back after may 6th. So you'll have some base to support your theory that heavies are terrible and bla bla.

Llan Heindell.