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Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
159
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
second to last than I fill w/ good stuff |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
159
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
ONE MORE, PLZ MODERATORS HAVE MERCY |
Smooth Head
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
I resisted the temptation. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2798
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Posted - 2013.05.04 12:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
I agree with almost everything you go over Heinrich, minus participating in afk and a few other minor things. Nice to see some well thought out responses, very thought provoking. |
Abu Stij
Immobile Infantry
0
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Posted - 2013.05.04 12:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:@Ironwolfsaber whats EOD?
EOD is Explosive Ordinance Disposal, this would include being able to remove items such as Claymores, C4, IED (Improvised Explosive Device), and more before they explode killing your teammates.
Iron Wolf's comment seems to be more geared toward adding the above explosive devices into the game for in the concept of breaching charges as opposed to "durr lets log a grenade" which most FPS games currently rely heavily upon.
This could, in effect, lead to a specific class being made by the players, not CCP directly, to handle those groups who love their explosives and would actually add a new layer to the game making it follow in CCP's vision of a "EVE-like" game since, despite the whining of some, DUST is part of EVE.
I would specifically like to know how the CPM0 plan to at least, in theory, prefer to have the next CPM elections sorted out. Do they want to just clone the CSM elections or are they more interested in making a slightly more customized format.
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Varr Sorgens
Immobile Infantry
0
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Posted - 2013.05.04 15:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:AFKing
framerate Goal should be 30 or better, but realistically 60 is really hard to pull off on current gens and 120 is out of the question (though 120 nearly has no 'real' effect since the human eye is tracked to 60.
Just want to tell you the old human eye tracked at XX FPS is bullshit. The human eye doesn't perceive frames per second, it percieves movement, and yes, there is a very discernable difference between 60 and 120 fps. Anyone with a 120hz monitor can tell you this for a fact. |
Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die
240
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Posted - 2013.05.04 15:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:would like to know ur views on LAV OHKs.
If LAVs are running you over then you have to be more careful, remember kids. Look both ways when crossing the road. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3821
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
Varr Sorgens wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:AFKing
framerate Goal should be 30 or better, but realistically 60 is really hard to pull off on current gens and 120 is out of the question (though 120 nearly has no 'real' effect since the human eye is tracked to 60.
Just want to tell you the old human eye tracked at XX FPS is bullshit. The human eye doesn't perceive frames per second, it percieves movement, and yes, there is a very discernable difference between 60 and 120 fps. Anyone with a 120hz monitor can tell you this for a fact.
The mk. 1 eyeball and the optical processor are very funny things and don't always work right in the most optimal conditions. http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/intospace.gif
120 frames is a bit smoother because at 60 there are times the game will hiccup or slow down during the most intense the but at 120 frames gives plenty of time to compensate and make up for missed frames. Also 120fps is required for interlaced monitors because it has to update half the picture twice as fast as the progressive monitors just to keep up.
There is also the human perception case and interlaced settings to mind as well. Interlaced are generally preferred for gaming as its much faster on the flow of information vs the progressive which is generally far better for movies as it seems to go a bit slower and lets you take it all in, and just because the human eyes can only go 60 its been proven that if you show 59 frames of the movie and 1 frame of something 'suggestive' the human eye will miss that one frame entirely, but the mind still catches it. FCC banned this in movies some times ago, stupid concession stand advertisements.
Once upon a time 10 frames a second was an acceptable movie format, most recent movie I known to use this was Indiana Johnes and the temple of doom, I am sure there been others more recently. |
XXfootnoteXX
DUST University Ivy League
241
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 16:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
Abu Stij wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:@Ironwolfsaber whats EOD? EOD is Explosive Ordinance Disposal, this would include being able to remove items such as Claymores, C4, IED (Improvised Explosive Device), and more before they explode killing your teammates. Iron Wolf's comment seems to be more geared toward adding the above explosive devices into the game for in the concept of breaching charges as opposed to "durr lets log a grenade" which most FPS games currently rely heavily upon. This could, in effect, lead to a specific class being made by the players, not CCP directly, to handle those groups who love their explosives and would actually add a new layer to the game making it follow in CCP's vision of a "EVE-like" game since, despite the whining of some, DUST is part of EVE. I would specifically like to know how the CPM0 plan to at least, in theory, prefer to have the next CPM elections sorted out. Do they want to just clone the CSM elections or are they more interested in making a slightly more customized format. Actually, CCP can we get a "Jita Park" & "Assembly Hall" sort of subforums going on here so any suggestions to the CPM are more centralized and not lost in the "General Discussion" subforum.
I would actually really like to see this. |
Lune Solitaire
Immobile Infantry
9
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: Matchmaking
I'll be really blunt about this one GÇô I really could care less about the mechanics that drive highsec matchmaking. To me the really interesting part of the game should be Faction Warfare, Planetary Conquest, and 0.0 interaction, along with stuff like the recently mentioned "Penetration" game play for EVE ships and structures, none of which will rely on matchmaking algorithms. Granted, this shouldn't be comically out of balance, and I'm hoping CCP continues to tweak and refine the formula based on player feedback, but much like EVE Online itself the best advice I have for a noob is to plug into a group right away, and not to rely on the game itself to hold your hand and teach you how to stay alive. New Eden isn't fair, EVE isn't fair, and I don't really care if Dust514 is all that fair either, in the end.
CCP's time and resources need to be spent first and foremost on making sure that there are enough hardcore sandbox tools for the dedicated community to chew on and be satisfied with so that we're resorting to random matches as little as possible to begin with. The more that elite players engage in corp battles over districts, the less time they're back in highsec stomping noobs, and the less need there is to continually micromanage for perfect matchmaking balance.
In other words you don't think it's an issue that a brand new player could select an Ambush match and immediately be faced off against 3 full squads of top tier corp members while his entire team is pubbies and new players like himself? And I'm not talking about 3 squads of the same corp that tried queue-syncing, I mean something like 4 SVER True Blood, 4 Imperfects, and 4 PFBH, randomly put together on the same team while the new player's team has no existing groups going into battle.
It's one thing to say that New Eden/EVE/Dust isn't fair, but you go on about wanting an active community, a thriving community, but if new players aren't even given a chance to get their bearings in their first few battles because they're constantly getting reamed by vets simply because the game randomly put all the vets on one team and none on the other then there's a balance problem. It's like saying you want everything balanced but then go on to say you have no interest in changing ARs to make other guns able to fight on an even playing field.
Corps won't have FW or PC available all the time and therefore these vets will continue to queue up for pub games. If there can't be anything done to check and see that there are 12 players on one side with a combined SP total of over 96,000,000 while the entirety of the other team has less than 8,000,000 between them and switch things up a bit then go the extreme route and segregate matchmaking by SP total.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: Prone
Meh. I really don't see a major need for this. One of the more common (and completely valid) community concerns is frustration over "eyeshots", or the fact that bullets technically emerge from our heads and not our waists where the gun is carried. The ability to shoot over hills when the weapons and lower torso is behind cover has frustrated many of us throughout the last year, and this problem would only be exacerbated by a prone position. If CCP wants to re-rig hit detection (and I'm always a fan of better gunplay physics, it should be the bedrock foundation of the game) to address the "eyeshot" problem, I could see experimenting with a prone position at that time, but not sooner.
Prone will actually fix the problem of where bullets come out when firing sniper rifles. If there's an issue where bullets come out of your face when your gun is actually at your hip then laying prone will make your gun be level with your face when firing. Battlefield BC2 didn't allow you to go prone and it was a huge pain in the ass to hide or otherwise make your presence less known. If you want a deep game where you can deploy multiple tactics then going prone should absolutely be included to allow your scan profile to be lowered, make firing more stable, and allow you to just generally hide better (especially if there is more vegetation employed than just short grass). If it takes some great programming feat to allow you to go prone then I can understand CCP's aversion to putting it in the game, but otherwise why deprive you of something 9 out of 10 shooters allow you to do. And to fix the problem of divers and such, make the process of going prone and standing up take a second or so to do making you vulnerable so that players aren't tempted to try it during a gunfight.
Those are really the only things I disagree with you on, everything else sounds reasonable to me. |
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Atlas Exenthal
mnemonic.
37
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:10:00 -
[71] - Quote
I'm in agreement with Hans for the most part, however I do have some reservations;
The AFK SP issue Removing SP from being a match (aside from kills etc etc) isn't that great an idea either, unless the points gained from kills is quite large. CCP wants people PLAYING the game, not sitting around waiting for their SP to go up without logging in.
Penetration Gameplay This excites me greatly, but would need a bunch of work on the EVE side of things. - used for destroying player built structures that have entered reinforced mode (stations, poses etc). - used for FW major plexes (maybe a new type), that requires a two pronged approach to capture. Current types are too quick to capture imo. - wormhole structures for fancy ****. - Titans (or any player owned ship), would be cool, but need some seriously fleshed out ideas.
Friendly Fire If you enable FF everywhere else, that allows people to play both sides of the fight. while this sounds good on paper, this is truly a terrible idea in a game like Dust. The griefing levels are already quite high when you've got organized squads steamrolling through blueberries. Adding FF to public matches would allow people to do the same thing, from both sides of the fight.
That is a ****** shitty ****** idea, and we both know that without significantly levels of punishment for TKing (not player-based), that the game will suffer.
I'm all for the whole "harsh reality of eve" thing, but that doesn't really work in the context of a shooter. Low-sec would become a wasteland or organized pirate corps playing both sides of the field. Null-sec would remain unaffected since that's where the *serious* players will be, and they won't take FF lightly. High-sec would be where the *rich* grind blueberries for SP (basically how the game is right now).
Unlike EVE, multitudes of people can't just happen across a pirate squads killing teammates, like you can in EVE. In Dust, you've got a fixed number of players playing in an enclosed environment, with no ability to defend or call for support. Redlining is already pretty bad and hated. How much do you think people will hate it when you can't even spawn in your own MCC?
It simply doesn't work. Low Sec D514 would be a waste of space. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 11:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Sup Prom.
I disagree about the friendly fire part; if the right penalties are instated, it can be discouraged enough that mass TK becomes a consequence laden choice, much like suicide ganking.
Some consequences off the top of my head in no particular order of severity: - Arbitrary amount of SP and ISK removed from match rewards - Forfeit rights to loot - Getting flagged as a TKer for 5 minutes, legal target for anyone without penalties - Killed and kicked from high sec pub matches for 15 minutes
Low sec would have less of these consequences than high sec.
People would still do it of course, but it makes Dust more of a sandbox and gives players options for punishing team players that screw them over. Yes, there will be grudge matches. Yes, there will be people losing Thales snipers to people who don't like snipers (already happens btw). Both should be embraced in typical New Eden style (don't risk what you can't afford to lose; trust is the most valuable commodity).
And that's why it's worth having FF in all areas of Dust. It just needs to be properly implemented. |
Abu Stij
Goonfeet
4
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Posted - 2013.05.07 16:46:00 -
[73] - Quote
XXfootnoteXX wrote:Abu Stij wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:@Ironwolfsaber whats EOD? EOD is Explosive Ordinance Disposal, this would include being able to remove items such as Claymores, C4, IED (Improvised Explosive Device), and more before they explode killing your teammates. Iron Wolf's comment seems to be more geared toward adding the above explosive devices into the game for in the concept of breaching charges as opposed to "durr lets log a grenade" which most FPS games currently rely heavily upon. This could, in effect, lead to a specific class being made by the players, not CCP directly, to handle those groups who love their explosives and would actually add a new layer to the game making it follow in CCP's vision of a "EVE-like" game since, despite the whining of some, DUST is part of EVE. I would specifically like to know how the CPM0 plan to at least, in theory, prefer to have the next CPM elections sorted out. Do they want to just clone the CSM elections or are they more interested in making a slightly more customized format. Actually, CCP can we get a "Jita Park" & "Assembly Hall" sort of subforums going on here so any suggestions to the CPM are more centralized and not lost in the "General Discussion" subforum. I would actually really like to see this.
The CPM elections format concepts or the Jita Park/Assembly Hall request?
I made a thread for the latter here - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=759204#post759204
I also got a tweet from CCP_Eterne about him "looking into it on Monday" so hopefully CCP sees the potential for such a set of subforums. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
885
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 01:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
- AFKing
I'll be clear on this. I love the idea of being able to go AFK and infuriate, and sabotage a team. What I don't like, is how rewarding it is. AFK'ing should be something someone does when they see a wallet flash in the warbarge from someone on the enemy team saying "Please don't kill me, here's something on the side to betray your team" The incentive to AFK needs to be drawn from player actions WITH player consequences (Including friendly fire) instead of free and easy rewards like it is now.
- sharpshooter skill
I like that they are establishing a range baseline, it makes balancing much easier down the road. It's pretty clear that the general ranges of engagement are poorly suited to map design, and cover-to-cover firefights are simply not possible with most ranges. This forces someone to pretty much always have to charge, and someone to play defence. Guess who usually wins? The guy who stuck with cover. Yawn. I want goodfights where both sides can use cover. (Either properly or improperly)
- friendly fire
Absolutely necessary to go in, ASAP. CCP wants to protect pubs from this; I say that FF is a essential part of balance, as many things that are deemed "OP" are largely due to the circumstances in which they are used. (Splash weapons + grenades + reckless vehicle driving being abundant without fear of harming one's team lead to nothing but bad balance. Dust is supposed to be a hard game. CCP doesn't need to hold anyone's hand. They just need to make it clear that making brand new characters to specifically grief/teamkill is unacceptable. They disallow making Trials to grief in Eve, same concept.
- prox chat
A debate as old as the dust forums. In fact, the first proxy chat thread was the first post to hit over 100 pages, IIRC. Anyways ; I am not against proxy chat, but I feel it is important for people to be able to opt out of it. The level of communication one participates in online should always be their choice. (I could go on, but ask me elsewhere to elaborate)
- breach weapons
These actually got some serious ninja love in uprising. They're not the hands-down best rifles like they used to be... but the breach is definitely back, baby.
- matchmaking
It's broken, and CCP needs to admit that a system that doesn't work with low sample data is probably not a good system and likely wouldn't work with high sample data either. Needs TLC.
- leaving matches to avoid losing assets
I have no idea what this refers to. You already lose whatever you've died in/spawned in during a battle, unless it's still alive when the match ends, or you use a supply depot. If this isn't the case, there's a serious bug. Someone clarify for me what the question is about?
- framerate
It /was/ better at fanfest. CCP is just as confused as we are, as to why things suddenly broke in a build that wasn't changed.
- armor tanking vs shield tanking
Armor being **** compared to shields is something we've been making posts about since april 2012. Endless debates have been had. Endless solutions proposed. It's bad, and desperately needs to change.
- the lack of game modes
Domination is coming, which plays a lot like a king of the hill match where uplinks are super critical. I had fun with it during the playtest, and it'll at least shake things up a bit for a while. While PC isn't a new game mode (And shouldn't ever be called such by CCP) it is definitely something 'new' to do. Another shakeup. But I will say this : I want conquest mode. I want it asap. And I want Skirmish 1.0 and my beloved craterlake battleground back. I am super butthurt about the loss of craterlake. One of the best designed terrains of any outdoors FPS map I have ever played. (But at least we got fishbowls to replace it, right? *grimace*)
- laser rifles being OP
Main "OP" thing about laser rifles is/was 'pre-heating' the rifle. I actually think they need a damage BUFF, but need to ditch the idea of increased damage based on the duration of firing. Or at least, making it increased damaged based on time sustained on target. (This keeps lasers pretty useful against shield vehicles)
- unlimited ammo for tanks
Vehicles are a completely different ball of wax. Ammo is not the problem. Their problems lay elsewhere and I will elaborate if asked.
- command structure
Unclear what this refers to. Squads? Teams? Chat channels? Corps? Please clarify the question.
- proto pub stomping
This is only a major issue because of the lack of high end gameplay. The fact that there's simply nothing else for 'protobears' to do but farm pubs, is the main issue here. Of course, you're always going to have the risk averse crowd who want to shout about their epeen and stats and how amazing they are because they just hide in pubs and stomp noobs... But that can be mitigated somewhat through a better matchmaking and battle finder system.
- scrambler pistol 450% headshot dmg mod
This is just plain broken. Drop it to 200% and the pistol suddenly becomes fine.
- prone
- drones as assets
Both of these : Over my rotting carcass.
I've made dozens of posts on prone. I don't want to make another. Just search for that. Prone is bad for strafe games, awesome for twitch reflex shooters. Simple as.
Drones? Under no circumstances do I want to see AI allies in a PVP environment. Under no circumstances do I want little remote buddies that let some jerk hide in his spawn near a supply depot while he does stuff that 'help' his team.
Now, if you're talking about drones you could send to attack an enemy and trigger PVE to disrupt their districts? Awesome. But I will fight tooth and nail to keep the former out of Dust.
- heavies being OP
Simply cannot be summarized. The heavy suit is not OP. Things they use have their own balance issues. The suit type itself is fine.
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
885
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 01:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
- AV vs tanks
Another thing that has been broken since day 1. CCP acknowledged this in the meeting we had today. Vehicles VS infantry is in a bad spot, and they're working to fix that. Honestly? I'm dubious to see what they come up with, but I'll be prodding heavily and urge all vehicle drivers and AV specs to talk to the CPM in the coming days.
- flash & smoke grenades
- mcc commanders
Both things coming 'down the road' and I don't really care to comment on vague futurestuff when so much stuff is wrong NOW.
- corp training rooms
- corp armories
Coming, but can't come fast enough. (Giggity?)
- AUR rewards and contracts
Not a fan of the idea or direct aurum transfers. A secure method of trading aurum tokens (an existing but unused asset) that have yet to be redeemed would be preferred. This could tie into contracts, but like i said : I'm hesistant to see aurum rewards for things like pve or pvp matches that are generated by the system.
- player trading market
Again : Coming, but can't come fast enough. Absolutely necessary to mitigate P2W arguments for aurum items like boosters and to appease jealous customers who want sexy outfits but don't wanna shell out RL cash.
- sky spawning
It'd be nice, and solve some issues. But raises more questions. Good threads about it in the past. Worth having more goodposts about this.
- cloaking
Very, Very uneasy about the proposed cloaking system. I don't like the focus on immobility it places and find it encourages campy attitudes rather than being mobility tool. See my thoughts here : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=643806#post643806
- claymores
Would be interesting, but I'd be wary. I tend to prefer RE's as I highly dislike 'fire and forget' weapon systems in FPS games. These could easily cause a whole lot of lamesauce.
- what are your opinions on penetration gamplay?
Boarding stations and POS towers? Love it.
Boarding actual eve players' ships? Pipe dream. It's an awesome idea on paper but will never be possible in a practical sense during fleet engagements. The only time it'd be remotely useful is when you catch some moron ratting alone in a fancy ship. Even then... I don't like the idea of theft or destruction, merely dehabilitation via dust. There's too many problems with this concept to summarize and I'd be happy to elaborate in another post if asked.
- how do you feel about the mass driver?
I think it was fine before they buffed it the first time, TBH. The cycle of buff/nerf/buff/nerf has taken it's toll on pretty much everything in the game, and everything seems to end up worse because of it. The mass driver however, i feel is in a decent place right now. Regular users might complain about the nerf, and it might need some minor tweaks... but I'm happy enough with it as it is.
- how do you feel about LAVs being a OHK?
I don't mind it. Honestly, I don't. What I do mind is seeing LAV's screaming through their own teammates into groups of enemies trying to roadkill. If FF was on, they'd either never try that or their team would just blow them up.
Sorry for being in summary mode. Normally I'd go full blast like Heinrich did, but I'm just getting back into the swing of things after being away. Multitasking like crazy but I promised GNN I'd get this done! (Love you GNN) [/list] |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
384
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 22:00:00 -
[76] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:LAVs being a OHK?
Not a problem in the least. It's still a small truck, and if you get run over you should die. If you're in a match against me, please, please, please spawn more LAV's and come find me. In fact, throw a couple friends in the empty seats while you're at it. A little extra weight will make it hit twice as hard, right? :) [u]
Good post overall but you do realize that a LAV is lethal to any player at literally 1mph right?
It's a got a bumper of insta-death.
Full speed hits seem reasonable as a lethal weapon but that's not the situation. |
Ulysses Knapse
Bojo's School of the Trades
363
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 22:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:
scrambler pistol 450% headshot dmg mod
This is just plain broken. Drop it to 200% and the pistol suddenly becomes fine. And ruin the most unique part of the weapon? No, I don't think that's a good idea. |
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