Alright, I'll give you the DEV perspective, the answer is no. Because if it was then you would easily be making enough cash to be able to keep doing those things, since you can't and really haven't ever been able to and you know you can't you know it isn't viable.

Dropship, LAV and HAVs really are just this, alt character slots for your corp battles. If you are maining one of these then you are gimping yourself on skills that would be useful elsewhere.

*PS* There are always exceptions to the rule, I am sure there is one guy who flies a DS all day and never loses it and makes millions of isk being awesome. And as always, that guy can go 2#R@#$!@

If the answer is no, I think you will see a whole lot of isk farming type suits ie. snipers/ militia assault. The thing is, people who like to fly are still going to do so. If they have to sit in a two or three matches sniping in order do accomplish this, they will. If such is the case, I think it really takes away from the game in a big way.

In other words:
Game with Self Sufficient Pilots >>> Game with Pilots who must be constantly farming isk.

You should definitely be able to e.g. fly pilot your dropship and earn a good living doing it, provided that you're useful to your team.

Alright, I'll give you the DEV perspective, the answer is no. Because if it was then you would easily be making enough cash to be able to keep doing those things, since you can't and really haven't ever been able to and you know you can't you know it isn't viable.

Dropship, LAV and HAVs really are just this, alt character slots for your corp battles. If you are maining one of these then you are gimping yourself on skills that would be useful elsewhere.

*PS* There are always exceptions to the rule, I am sure there is one guy who flies a DS all day and never loses it and makes millions of isk being awesome. And as always, that guy can go 2#R@#$!@

I knew this sounded familiar...

From here.

Edit: And there's me in the next post, claiming I achieved a semi-erect state from the idea of dropship viability.

With the coming separation of the infantry and vehicle skill trees comes the question:

Is this pilot/driver role meant to be a distinct and playable alternative to infantry combat, or is it supposed to be a sideline that is only occasionally indulged in?

You owe it to the player base to make your philosophy clear before the respec lures some folks into going all in to a piloting role only to discover that it is unsustainable.

I realize this may be a more nuanced question than a simple yes/no, perhaps "Yes with a minimum of 6m SP investment".

With no Starter Vehicle fit to fall back on it is difficult to see how someone could skip the rep of creating a competitive infantry fit before going or a vehicl, yet I can only imagine the uproar over such a fit.

I can use a surya and keep my stock at 5 with proto everything while maintaining 30+ mil ISK

i have never seen your surya, all i know is that av nades hurt really bad.

This is more about Dropship "pilots" than Tankers, sure tanks are expensive, but they are great at killing, making it easier for them to accrue SP nd ISK, at least compared to DS pilots.

We need to know if there are mechanics in the game come May 6th to make Piloting aerial vehicles a viable profession.

yes sir, I`ll explain. (the following is considering no fragos)

a DSes role in the airial vehicle logi bro, they spawn troops in and transport them in addition (logi 10 SP, DS = 0 SP while the DSes do even more in cost and efficincy).

they (if a decent loadout / pilot) get a few kills (logis direct kills - kills = 25 WP - 50WP, DS vehicle kill assists = 38WP)

a rare BUT HIGHLY VALUABLE TO TANKS and pther vehicles/ instalations is that the DS is the best vehicle fit (in the long run considering pulses are limited and map size and shape etc) is that they can heal BOTH armor and sheild (Logi = 15 WP - 40 WP, DS for repping BOTH sheilds and armor even while lets say a tank kills mercs 0, 0 and 0)

I can keep going but as a DSes role (especily since the Logi version of a logi vehicle) are all transport based atm they gain NO WHERE NEAR THE DESERVED WP/SP, you can shout out ,'well theres an Assualt DS coming' but again, your a fool to beleive its the salution (any one here needs that explain? I would feel like a broken record to say it when everypne here in this thread knows), DSes are UP, you can also argue current map size but whats the diffrence? a slightly higher chance to live in a role that would still give you nothing? heres my thread argueing DS / SP inbalance please feel free to comment there aswell as reply here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68183&find=unread

You still don't honestly think that gaining 20% of all WP gained by WP-earning actions performed by dropped soldiers for one minute after they land isn't a viable solution? A merc can do a lot in one minute, and you'll ve dropping at least 4 of them at a time. It will encourage dropship pilots to perform their intended role as a carrier. I agree with what you say, though, vehicle pilots should get WP for repping. Note that the idea I posted is not my own, I found it on a dropship thread that was buried some time ago. Also, some WP for picking up mercs at less than 50% armor (maybe 25 WP?) would be nice.

With the coming separation of the infantry and vehicle skill trees comes the question:

Is this pilot/driver role meant to be a distinct and playable alternative to infantry combat, or is it supposed to be a sideline that is only occasionally indulged in?

You owe it to the player base to make your philosophy clear before the respec lures some folks into going all in to a piloting role only to discover that it is unsustainable.

I realize this may be a more nuanced question than a simple yes/no, perhaps "Yes with a minimum of 6m SP investment".

With no Starter Vehicle fit to fall back on it is difficult to see how someone could skip the rep of creating a competitive infantry fit before going or a vehicl, yet I can only imagine the uproar over such a fit.

@Shouper:

It's been said before, but how about this:

Pilot gets direct WP for repairs, but not to the point where it can be farmed by repairing their own DS on the ground. (don't want another Rep Nerf.)

Once the Commander role becomes viable in the MCC, there should be a direct WP accrual for a pilot making a precision drop on coordinates of the Commander's choosing. The closer you are to the coords, the better your WP. This would encourage the Commander to make sound decisions, and it would encourage the DS to make high-risk runs into questionable territory to break the back of an enemy surge. As also stated before, this would require a light to activate the Drop command for the crew being carried, or an option to eject the mercs as actual Dropsuit cargo. Living bombs, if you will. Bonus WP if you manage to eject the living bombs onto the "bulls-eye" of the requested coordinates.

While there is the potential for the mechanic to be abused, that's just part of the danger of living in New Eden. You have to trust that your pilot isn't a d**k.


And to ensure pilots have sustainable gains, a slow passive WP counter that accrues while you have the DS in the match. The better you are at flying, the higher your overall WP. If you continue to get show down, your WP will be negligible.

These are all ideas that have been postulated before, in other threads, and I believe in this one as well, though I'm too lazy to go back and re-read it.

[I really like the idea except the part where we have to hope no 1 cheats the system to farm, if there is a way for it to happen, many will flok to it, but I`m going to stick to your idea anyways and think of a way we can make sure it isn`t farmable.

How about this:

To avoid "AFK DS", the WP accrual is paused if you exceed a height parameter. Say 2/3 the flight ceiling. (We'd need to raise the flight ceiling, so it's still tactically viable to fly without hampering WP). Once you descend below the ceiling cap, you continue to accrue WP where you left off. If you return to the ceiling cap more than 5 times within 1 min, your WP gains are reset to the starting point. This will minimize farming, while also encouraging tactical flight training. If you have to do more than just go up to survive, you earn more WP. This would also require an overall Buff to DS survival stats.

To avoid the Rep Nerf that occurred originally, you cannot gain WP for repping your own DS on the ground. This can still be farmed by a team of 2 pilots repping each others DS, but to that point, they should just stay airborne and rep away to boost WP anyway. To encourage team play, passenger Logi's should be able to repair the DS from the cargo bay, and the pilot can gain 25% WP from the cargo rep, but these reps are still subject to the existing Rep cap, so it cannot be farmed by keeping the Logi in the cargo bay long term.

As for the Commander scenario, I don't really see a way to farm that, unless a Commander daisy chains drop orders. But at that point, you just have a d**k for a Commander, and they should be kicked from the MCC. That's external to the DS Pilot and farming exploits should be minimal. The skill involved in hitting a bulls-eye marked by another individual should encourage skill, and should minimize farming goals as I see it.

I look forward to any further ideas, or counter points you have to make to these ideas.

thinking about my post some more, having the server calculate how much time you spend in a drop ship would be kinda lame, and limiting, what about that Pilot Dropsuit Idea, if you get the WP and lose your ride while wearing the Pilot Dropsuit (Which only has a Sidearm Slot and can only fit vehicle enhancing/interfacing mods) Then you get the BPC.


I don't know about increasing the ISK rewards to allow people to drive this stuff all the time. Because then you will just have people in HAVs at super long range bombing people to ISK farm, basically just like having sniper fights (Which are lame if its the whole conflict). Or you have a troll drop a uplink and then get in his HAV and just farm points from people spawning at his uplink. With my idea the balance is you have to lose the vehicle and you only get back what you lose so I didn't see a way to "farm" massive ISk with it that would break the standard ISK generation of other careers.

[Edit:] Or a troll in his DS parked in a safe high spot letting people spawn on him for free WP for massive ISK payouts.

The Dropship one is easy: don't let the uplink work unless the vehicle is active, so it stays on the radar. Also, with new attack oriented aircraft coming in, there won't be any such thing as a high safe spot anymore.

thinking about my post some more, having the server calculate how much time you spend in a drop ship would be kinda lame, and limiting, what about that Pilot Dropsuit Idea, if you get the WP and lose your ride while wearing the Pilot Dropsuit (Which only has a Sidearm Slot and can only fit vehicle enhancing/interfacing mods) Then you get the BPC.


I don't know about increasing the ISK rewards to allow people to drive this stuff all the time. Because then you will just have people in HAVs at super long range bombing people to ISK farm, basically just like having sniper fights (Which are lame if its the whole conflict). Or you have a troll drop a uplink and then get in his HAV and just farm points from people spawning at his uplink. With my idea the balance is you have to lose the vehicle and you only get back what you lose so I didn't see a way to "farm" massive ISk with it that would break the standard ISK generation of other careers.

[Edit:] Or a troll in his DS parked in a safe high spot letting people spawn on him for free WP for massive ISK payouts.

[ The problems you cite can and should be solved in other ways than trying to limit ISK rewards. It hasn't stopped redline sniping, so it isn't likely to stop vehicular farming either.

That translates directly to DUST. Hit the pubs with a cheap suit and build up your bank account right now. Try and have 30m ISK or more at the start. That way you don't have to fly scared and can sustain losses as you learn what the new ships can do and what dangers the new AV poses. You don't want to be grinding ISK 4-5 matches between each flight or you risk never getting good enough to sustain your career.

The other thing you can do is share expenses with other pilots. Start a flying club with other pilots in your corp or go looking for them in the public channels. I'm not sure if the old 0K0D channel is still operational, but if so it's a great place to look. Practice in groups of three. One flies while the other two gun and keep watch.

That does three things:
1) Splits the cost. You buy one third the ships you would otherwise.
2) Teaches you what sort of flying your gunners need from you. There's no better way to learn the many ways you can frustrate your gunners than to do it yourself.
3) Provide feedback. Debrief after the match and offer constructive criticism to each pilot. We could probably devote a whole thread to how to get the most out of this.