Because they've released all the info on Uprising

Dust is awesome. Wait till the beta is over and I'm sure your option will change completely and if not you don't have to stick around.

Dust is the first game of its kind so of course its not going to be all smooth sailing from the beginning. That's why we give feedback.

To be fair, Uprising IS full release

You know that Dust is still in BETA right?

Dust is awesome. Wait till the beta is over and I'm sure your option will change completely and if not you don't have to stick around.

Dust is the first game of its kind so of course its not going to be all smooth sailing from the beginning. That's why we give feedback.

1. Planetary Conquest is just bad and ccp should feel bad.

2. NO Player trading or market (lot of good loot will do - not to mention selling aurum items for isk to kill p2w arguement)

3. Only corp battles will be in PC (no grudge matches, tourneys, practice scrims, training set ups)

4. No reason for EvE pilots to care (sorry but POS stuff is lame because we will come blow your **** up aka you are a target, get griefed by beers)

5. No pve so noobs have something to do besides get farmed.


Thats mine, whats yours?

I've been in beta for a year. Lots of promises made and feedback given. CCP assumed incorrectly they could go live with almost no real features. The things that will make dust "awesome" and fully functional game are still builds away it seems. Thus, disappointing.

PvE is the only thing we really need right now CCP. It would be that factor to keep the casuals you want so badly coming back and a place to train them. I hope there's news you guys left out :(

What's worse - it'll be 4-6 months before another major update after this one. Lot of hopes going into this. With such high expectations there's bound to be a lot of dissapointments. But regardless I'll be around toasting to the future.

The games development speed is unaffected by your levels of disappointment.
CCP knows your not going anywhere beers,
they are doing this to spite you.

They get up in the morning and first thing they do is look at the beers disappointment levels whiteboard.

They then brainstorm for several hours how they can add more content you don't enjoy and focus on AUR items, and equipment packs.

Soon beers disappointment levels will be at a all time high.

The strategy goes like this
Stages
#1 Disappoint and antagonize beers
#2 ?
#3 PROFIT!

The games development speed is unaffected by your levels of disappointment.
CCP knows your not going anywhere beers,
they are doing this to spite you.

They get up in the morning and first thing they do is look at the beers disappointment levels whiteboard.

They then brainstorm for several hours how they can add more content you don't enjoy and focus on AUR items, and equipment packs.

Soon beers disappointment levels will be at a all time high.

The strategy goes like this
Stages
#1 Disappoint and antagonize beers
#2 ?
#3 PROFIT!

I will be afking in mcc like i always do. The only reason i even log in is to get sp. CCP has been able to hide behind the fact that its "still" in beta. Once it goes "full release" (even if we have been paying for a beta after they said we wouldn't) they can't hide if the game is bad.

To be fair, Uprising IS full release

The wording for this was off and has been amended. It should simply have stated that Uprising was going to be released so apologies if the message conveyed was incorrect.

To be fair, Uprising IS full release

Where have we said that?

Where have we said that?

Where have we said that?

PC is just bad and CCP should feel bad?

LOL

Lost interest after reading that.

I honestly can't say it is a disappointment because I have not played it.

Do I wish I had all the things now that CCP has mentioned they want in the game, yea, sure, of course I do.

I agree that Beers usually has good/constructive ideas and is so passionate because he cares and wants CCP and Dust to succeed, but I fail to see how this post is useful and/or achieves that goal.

If you have any understanding of eve and nullsec mechanics you would see ccp is simply repeating the same mistakes in dust sov.

The current PC design is broke. Why? it's way to expensive to attack and the only way increase the reward is via clones. Thus rewarding passive clone farming even more for those groups that dont fight. I can do the math for you but I can't make you understand it. I will try harder next time, sorry.

One thing I'd like to know...

Will CCP eventually go to a bi-monthly type update for game content. Not major expansions, I'm thinking more along the lines of Map Packs.

The lack of different maps so far is disappointing. How much work would it require to install 10 maps every 2 months?

I must have missed all the "math" in the original post of yours. All I read was the benign and overtly narrowly-focused assessment of "PC is bad and CCP should feel bad."

Sorry if I like my arguments to be a little bit more productive in terms of their assessment and portrayal of an opinion.

3. Only corp battles will be in PC (no grudge matches, tourneys, practice scrims, training set ups)

I must have missed all the "math" in the original post of yours. All I read was the benign and overtly narrowly-focused assessment of "PC is bad and CCP should feel bad."

Sorry if I like my arguments to be a little bit more productive in terms of their assessment and portrayal of an opinion.

The game was never meant to be about smaller FPS mechanics, like corp battles. The current system is just a sideshow and I'm looking forward to it being retired. PC could use work and improvements (per the description given by the devs) but it should really be the one-and-only mode (with the assumption that PC will expand to include PvE, shipboard battles, etc.).

Here is the thread where I used real data from real 8v8 corp battles that I and other corps were involved in. Now project these numbers to 16 vs 16 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63845

Here is the dev blog and threadnaught regarding PC and SOV. You will notice that ccp foxfour is trying really hard to find a way to make attacking rewarding. Given that clones are used for both fighting/isk generate its hard to fine one. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63760&find=unread

Here is the thread where CCP foxfour looks for new ways to reward attacking
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63845

Here is the thread I discuss the mechanics in https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66524

glad i could help further your education

Op should rename this thread to

'5 opinions i pulled outta my ass'

1 is my opinion and if you read the above post where I Include links to back it up.

2 - 5 are facts that ccp already have told us will not be in the next "full release" build.

my forum pvp is strong so dont bring your weak **** into my thread unless you want to be slap'd down

Dust needs more then 1 thing to do.

I am focused on PC myself. I fully support the idea that there needs to be hisec pubs, FW, PVE, and PC/SOV. CCP can learn from zipper in the fact that they never gave mag real clan battles. Its already functionality that exists in game. Tweak it and put it in. CCP has had 6 months to work on this build.

Dust needs more then 1 thing to do.

I am focused on PC myself. I fully support the idea that there needs to be hisec pubs, FW, PVE, and PC/SOV. CCP can learn from zipper in the fact that they never gave mag real clan battles. Its already functionality that exists in game. Tweak it and put it in. CCP has had 6 months to work on this build.

Points 2, 4 and 5 were never expected in this build

3 is easy, fight over a district you dont care about or just attack each other anyways for the lulz

Also FW is getting added so noobs can just do what they want anyways, corps will at least do PC and maybe FW, normal matches might be clear for once

Where have we said that?

Not to sound like a fool, but I dislike shorthand -- what does PC stand for in this instance? It's not Personal Computer.

I had posted earlier about the broadcasted blood-sport/arena battles, which is where corp battles might ultimately find a home within the larger frame of PC. For example, what if your corp purchased several of the battlegrounds and hosted the 8v8 contests (not morally objectionable due to consciousness migration), reaping the rewards from viewership of the spectacle as it's broadcast to mercs, capsuleers, and the citizenry of a particular system? Combatants could fight for individual fame and sponsorship in the same way that current athletes do. Companies might pay for their services, although battlefield (as opposed to arena) effectiveness would be much reduced as a function of the higher player counts and less structured combat environment. That to me would be a compelling and lore-worthy reason for retaining CBs. What I like about Dust is that it is essentially a PC game on a console. Their scope and vision would suggest a niche market, but the F2P model ensures they get plenty of exposure. MAG's Shadow War fell apart and the only thing that made sense besides meaningless pubs was CBs. Dust, as yet, is in no such predicament. I hope they keep their focus on their unique vision without feeling the need to make concessions to be like other FPS'.

In summation, I'd support other modes as subsets of PC as long as they are overshadowed by the parent mode (if they start to become more popular and the focus shifts then limitations need to be introduced to refocus the community on the bread-and-butter) and it makes sense within the Eve canon.

Planetary conquest aka district to be controlled and fought over in corp battles by dust mercs.

One game mode very EVE-like but very dangerous on a console.

Not all modes need to tie into PC, let's keep in mind that some corps/individuals are pure mercs...If they can't accept contracts to attack a facility, steal stuff, capture a station or invade a Titan (I know, I know) something is wrong.

I'm concerned with PC a great deal but not providing alternatives for the less organized players is a bad idea. Maybe they can't commit to a full campaign but providing them contracts to "do a variety of different stuff" can be a good thing.

Some mercs don't want to manage huge corporations or take SOV, making their only other alternative Skirmish/Ambush is FAIL.

Hopefully PVE will offer even more stuff to do but modes are necessary IMO.

1. Planetary Conquest is just bad and ccp should feel bad.

2. NO Player trading or market (lot of good loot will do - not to mention selling aurum items for isk to kill p2w arguement)

3. Only corp battles will be in PC (no grudge matches, tourneys, practice scrims, training set ups)

4. No reason for EvE pilots to care (sorry but POS stuff is lame because we will come blow your **** up aka you are a target, get griefed by beers)

5. No pve so noobs have something to do besides get farmed.


Thats mine, whats yours?

Where have we said that?

I was really hoping that somehow "Uprising" would convince players not to latch onto preconceived notions and then doggedly defend them in the face of any and all evidence, views to the contrary, counter arguments, and that we would take a moment to step back, let the game play out for a few weeks, and then base our revised views of the game on actual observation.

1. Your argument on this matter is not only flawed and based on incomplete information, but relies on assumptions about the core mechanics of the system which have been directly contradicted by the official information available.

2. This is only a reason the game isn't finished yet, not a reason Uprising is disappointing.

3. There will be options to arrange queue-synced Corp Battles in FW as well.

4. Just because you can't see the reasons yourself, doesn't mean there aren't EVE pilots who care. I know of several who are looking forward to how Uprising turns out.

5. Until you realise that PC and FW will take a lot of the higher-end players out of the pubstomping pool - though not permanently/constantly. It's not going to eliminate Proto players from the pool entirely, but it should reduce their prevalence significantly. Many players with the skills to use Proto gear will avoid using it in pub matches because of the risk of losing something valuable for defending their territory in PC. Letting players use FW to create corp battles will make for a different Corp vs. Corp dynamic, and possibly get more DUST players interested and involved with EVE politics.

---

Also, half your arguments supporting the claims of disappointment are relying on the unfounded and unsupported claim that this is going to be the release build. While there hasn't been an official announcement to the contrary, there's plenty of reason to expect otherwise.

One game mode very EVE-like but very dangerous on a console.

Not all modes need to tie into PC, let's keep in mind that some corps/individuals are pure mercs...If they can't accept contracts to attack a facility, steal stuff, capture a station or invade a Titan (I know, I know) something is wrong.

I'm concerned with PC a great deal but not providing alternatives for the less organized players is a bad idea. Maybe they can't commit to a full campaign but providing them contracts to "do a variety of different stuff" can be a good thing.

Some mercs don't want to manage huge corporations or take SOV, making their only other alternative Skirmish/Ambush is FAIL.

Hopefully PVE will offer even more stuff to do but modes are necessary IMO.

You know that Dust is still in BETA right?

Dust is awesome. Wait till the beta is over and I'm sure your option will change completely and if not you don't have to stick around.

Dust is the first game of its kind so of course its not going to be all smooth sailing from the beginning. That's why we give feedback.

Didnt CCP state somewhere the system where corps can contract to fight each other (current FW setup) was coming back as just a setup match between corps without FW influence and other stuff? Cause i feel like I read that somewhere.

1. Planetary Conquest is just bad and ccp should feel bad.

2. NO Player trading or market (lot of good loot will do - not to mention selling aurum items for isk to kill p2w arguement)

3. Only corp battles will be in PC (no grudge matches, tourneys, practice scrims, training set ups)

4. No reason for EvE pilots to care (sorry but POS stuff is lame because we will come blow your **** up aka you are a target, get griefed by beers)

5. No pve so noobs have something to do besides get farmed.


Thats mine, whats yours?

1. flawed you say? why not be specific and lets us discuss the how and why of the mechanics. You think ccp and more specifically ccp foxfour would have been so engaging with the community if PC was super awesome already? Would ccp foxfour would be offering up more incentives to attack if he didn't know the economic realities of PC as it is. GOML or go fanboi somewhere else.

2. Dust like eve will never be finished. Your reasoning is ****. I want MTACs too but its not a core feature of the game and i accept that. EvE is epic because it has a disposable economy with a player market. CCP should have been able to put the basics of this in by full release. Not even asking for dust/eve economic integration, just the basics.

3. Queue syncing for corp battles is your solution? really? maybe ccp should hire you could help them build mag 2.

4. I'm an eve pilot and trust me when i say if your corp has POS's in lowsec expect it to get bashed by my EvE peeps. Not for any PC reason but just to grief you and those like you.

5. The reason i loathe the idea of no pve is that fact that is can and should be used as a way to "actively" farm districts you control. NOT relying on this passive clone idea that is part of whats broken in nullsec. the elite players will still be in pubs stomping every one next build. The reason is simple even if you fight 1 district battle a day you still need to grind sp and isk. Corp battles are isk sinks as ccp intended them to be.

come at me bro your forum pvp is weak

I will be afking in mcc like i always do. The only reason i even log in is to get sp. CCP has been able to hide behind the fact that its "still" in beta. Once it goes "full release" (even if we have been paying for a beta after they said we wouldn't) they can't hide if the game is bad.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY!?! Im really getting tired of the "Its a beta" excuse. Dear god, you people at this point should have a better excuse.

not in the next build.

so? whats your point? its coming at some point, so not a big deal.

1. Your argument against the current mechanics has been a blatant excuse to propose an alternative which directly contradicts your proclaimed goal. You say you want to reduce the "blue donut" effect then suggest things which can ONLY reinforce the kind of behaviour you're claiming you want to avoid. Of all the suggested methods for PC to work, the best system for avoiding the problems you claim to want CCP to avoid is the system they're suggesting, not anything you or the other forum warriors here have been promoting yourselves with.

2. Sorry, "finished" was probably the wrong wording. "Ready for release" would have been better. The next build isn't a release build.

3. Point 2 ties in here. Yes, I'm suggesting queue-syncing - IN A MODE WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO PICK SIDES (or did you forget that part of the announcement?) - by finding an empty battle and filling it with Corp squads, one Corp to each side.

4. And griefing is part of the fun. Just like when I run a level 10 character on the PVP server in DCUO. I don't see the problem.

5. So you dislike that a pre-release build doesn't have a feature intended for release day because it only encourages a partial withdrawal of pubstomping players instead of the total elimination of the problem that will never happen anyway no matter what CCP do? Seems legit.

Admittedly, as much as Free Beers doesn't have much of a point, this thread is a complaint about things he wishes we had in the next build, NOT features that are meant to be in the game by release.

Problem is that he, like many others, is assuming (without a reliable basis on which to make the assumption, and with plenty of implied evidence to the contrary) that Uprising is the release build. Apart from that huge unsupported leap of fail logic, claiming that a future feature will negate a complaint about next build is about as well-founded as claiming that 0.8 = 1.0 like Beers is.

Sometimes, people throw "it's a beta" at legitimate problems as a rationalisation for the problem not to matter.

That isn't happening here.

Here, people are throwing "DUST isn't ready for release" claims about and "it's a beta" is a perfectly valid response to those totally pointless complaints.

1. Planetary Conquest is just bad and ccp should feel bad.

2. NO Player trading or market (lot of good loot will do - not to mention selling aurum items for isk to kill p2w arguement)

3. Only corp battles will be in PC (no grudge matches, tourneys, practice scrims, training set ups)

4. No reason for EvE pilots to care (sorry but POS stuff is lame because we will come blow your **** up aka you are a target, get griefed by beers)

5. No pve so noobs have something to do besides get farmed.


Thats mine, whats yours?

Everyone in the Dust universe - "WE WANT PC!"

Beers - "PC?! **** that! Give me everything else, AND make it perfect before the games even halfway as good as EVE!

You make some valid points. But isn't 1 on 1 trading coming next build?

You miss understand. I am saying our only new real game feature is PC and is broke before we get it. There are other features that we should be getting but we aren't.

ccp uses beta when we ask why we dont have X or why Z doesn't work. Yet, its a commercial release so they can take our aurum. I have no issue with my aurum not being refunded, I have received fair value for it. Still the question is "what am I paying for then" if this is all we are getting in our bi annual build.

I'm still waiting for public source saying next build isn't the "full release" of dust. Everything I read from a public stand point has said it was full release.

Also if the may release isn't full release then we are still waiting 3-6 months for another release. next build we get revisions of existing features. We get like 5 maps with dynamic socket structures for pubs and FW. FW is a squad based combat system with LP involved. We get a very basic PC that is very flawed and still is intended to be an isk sink in dust (when its hard to grind isk let a lone sp).

So yea thats it. After 6 months of waiting and almost a year of "just wait for it" from ccp

Good stuff here. Lot's of passion. The fact that even the people going "CCP sucks and this all sucks" are not simply wandering off and playing COD or something means that they see the potential. They want this game to rock. And it will. Possibly not with Uprising though.

Some things to keep in mind about CCP's other game releases:
Eve Online's first Post-Beta release, called Second Genesis:
Had no Tech 2 ships
Had no Conquest system at all
Had no player conquerable structures
PVE missions were limited to level 1 (now there are 5)
5000 systems with 1 station apiece (now much bigger, much denser)

Conquerable stations were added 6 months after release, along with Tech 2 blueprints
Sovereignty was added a year later, along with battlecruisers and mining barges and formal alliances
Cap ships were introduced a year after that, and carriers and Titans 8 months later.

All in all there have been 16 free expansions in 10 years.

Hopefully we can all agree on this:
Uprising will expand on (hopefully improve) the build we're currently playing
Uprising will NOT contain all of the features we want, individually or collectively
End of Beta or no, six to eight months later, there will be another upgrade, and then another, and another, for a long time.

There are features that I'm still waiting on in Eve (I want to own a club on Jita 4-4, kitten!). There are features I'm waiting for in Dust (plants, water, more than 4 maps!) But I'm willing to wait, because there's never going to be a Dust 2, just better and better and more and more for as long as New Eden has players.

Eve Online Expansions

We dont get in

-no market or trading (never seen an mmo that you cant trade in)
-no ability to grudge match (which a lot of corps use for training, teaching, testing of stuff, friendly/fun matches)
-no pve

My point is we're not getting this in Uprising. We're going to get it. It's coming. I want it too. I want all that stuff. More maps, more depth, markets, alliances, corp tools, social spaces, station conquest. Hell I want quick matches to actually take place in tranquility instead and be visible from orbit instead of who-knows-where.

If you are an Eve junky, then you know that there will be more releases, and that they'll address the issues above in them.

The point of the Open Beta was not new functionality. It wasn't new maps, new weapons, or new gameplay. The point of the open beta was to let a million players loose in New Eden with assault rifles and see what shook loose. How big a draw distance can we get away with? How many players per match? How many concurrent matches? What happens when we hook up to TQ and there's a massive fleet battle in the same system? How many market transactions, chat channels, voice conversations can the system handle. How do we get the engine better? How can have textures and assets that can be downloaded from the web in a reasonable time when the game loads and still load fast and look good in game? Is hit detection really broken? Are tanks really OP? Making the maps small and reducing variability allowed devs to eliminate variables and zero in on problems. It forced high-intensity matches to maximize load. Limiting the suits to one of each type allowed the devs to refine the roles. Basically, the devs have been using the beta period to refine the core gameplay: boots in the dust shooting at each other, linked in real-time to a universe populated by half a million players who get very very bitchy when their gameplay is disrupted. That has gotten better over the last year. Less glitches, less bugs. Less honestly OP builds. Better hit detection.

Once the beta is over, the floodgates on the content that the core gameplay powers can open. Starting with Uprising, and continuing from there.

BTW I'm a huge fan of your books

The balancing and "beta purpurse" are easly done un 3 months of consistant testing yet we get 6 months per update.Hell for a fps You could balance under month in a half if you really work the shaft.


And relating to "we will get our features... in time"


Whats the timeframe for that 6+years?

AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT!

Obviously you've never been part of game development, or even followed it.

It takes a month for patches. It takes six if you're releasing major content. Some games take a year+ to release an expansion.

This, CCP take the ******* hint, even thou some corps do want to try out PC, it doesnt mean you need to squat other game modes, you have done the same thing regarding maps and well... people are still clamoring for more. You need to ADD things up, not switching them over.




Seriously? SERIOUSLY!?! Im really getting tired of the "Its a beta" excuse. Dear god, you people at this point should have a better excuse.

I've been in beta for a year. Lots of promises made and feedback given. CCP assumed incorrectly they could go live with almost no real features. The things that will make dust "awesome" and fully functional game are still builds away it seems. Thus, disappointing.

2-5 have been confirmed by ccp and 1 is just my edjamacated opinion

Before I agree or disagree with any of your points, I'd really like to see a source for this....

PC is what puts the MMO in Dust's FSPMMORPG genera, it will be the games bread and butter. If you don't like PC, then you should probably stop playing Dust right now and move on. Because that is what the game will be centered around, likely for it's lifetime.

Player market will also be huge, but without PC it really wouldn't mean much in the long run.

The games development speed is unaffected by your levels of disappointment.
CCP knows your not going anywhere beers,
they are doing this to spite you.

They get up in the morning and first thing they do is look at the beers disappointment levels whiteboard.

They then brainstorm for several hours how they can add more content you don't enjoy and focus on AUR items, and equipment packs.

Soon beers disappointment levels will be at a all time high.

The strategy goes like this
Stages
#1 Disappoint and antagonize beers
#2 ?
#3 PROFIT!

After 83 posts on the subject Beers I was starting to think you liked planetary conquest

It's great that there is so much passion for this game to be done properly and we thank you for sticking with us and seeing this through. As for the features you are after that (might) not be in the next build I can only restate that everything you listed is on our roadmap. It will be done when it gets done, and not a moment later. I've tried jumping up and down yelling "faster faster" but it doesn't seem to help. People just look at me funny.

After 83 posts on the subject Beers I was starting to think you liked planetary conquest

It's great that there is so much passion for this game to be done properly and we thank you for sticking with us and seeing this through. As for the features you are after that (might) not be in the next build I can only restate that everything you listed is on our roadmap. It will be done when it gets done, and not a moment later. I've tried jumping up and down yelling "faster faster" but it doesn't seem to help. People just look at me funny.

What about arena battle eSports

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

1. Planetary Conquest is just bad and ccp should feel bad.

2. NO Player trading or market (lot of good loot will do - not to mention selling aurum items for isk to kill p2w arguement)

3. Only corp battles will be in PC (no grudge matches, tourneys, practice scrims, training set ups)

4. No reason for EvE pilots to care (sorry but POS stuff is lame because we will come blow your **** up aka you are a target, get griefed by beers)

5. No pve so noobs have something to do besides get farmed.


Thats mine, whats yours?

After 83 posts on the subject Beers I was starting to think you liked planetary conquest

It's great that there is so much passion for this game to be done properly and we thank you for sticking with us and seeing this through. As for the features you are after that (might) not be in the next build I can only restate that everything you listed is on our roadmap. It will be done when it gets done, and not a moment later. I've tried jumping up and down yelling "faster faster" but it doesn't seem to help. People just look at me funny.

Don't try and sweet talk me nully your fanbois will get jealous I got room for 1 concubine in dust and that's Nova.

Just sit behind your computer and loathe me everytime I post and we will get along just fine. I'll continue to hold ccp to higher expectations than they hold themselves. It's what I do.















PS Maybe get foxfour some velcro shoes. The ones with zippers on the side so he can slide in a quarter for ice cream after lunch

After 83 posts on the subject Beers I was starting to think you liked planetary conquest

It's great that there is so much passion for this game to be done properly and we thank you for sticking with us and seeing this through. As for the features you are after that (might) not be in the next build I can only restate that everything you listed is on our roadmap. It will be done when it gets done, and not a moment later. I've tried jumping up and down yelling "faster faster" but it doesn't seem to help. People just look at me funny.

Be open and truthfull with your fans/customers and any delays are forgiven.

What bothers me is not that its being done slowly but instead its the SECRECY of haveing to dig for a simple response to a question of when there was going to be new content??

Back in January I noticed that there were no mentions of more bandwith and this had me go huh? but with open beta and a then probable new content release in Feb. there needed to be more server bandwith but nothing?? so I did a thread on the IGN stream where I asked about " CCP: three to six months for new build" and I just got told Fanfest for stuff this then confirmed to me the importance of a date with 5/14 in it.

My point is why just not then say " hey folks we are going with a 5/14 release for a new build since it is Dust 514"

But no we get secrecy instead until just a week or so ago.

And those that did know the importance of 5/14 or put two and two together kept quiet about it.
Wheres the icon for mad at CCP but I forgive you.

Blame PR, if we let him FoxFour would probably just keep talking about the game till we fell asleep from sleep deprivation