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Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
The more I consider it, the more this piece of equip/gear worries me. I have my fingers crossed CCP limits it with game balance as the priority. I'd like to see...
A) It be an active module with a time limit/cool-down B) It require active manipulation like a weapon/the active scanner. If you switch to a weapon, the cloak dissipates. C) Max effectiveness that requires zero movement, be nice to see a "shimmer" or predator effect when guys are moving.
I've never played a game with a cloak so feedback from those who have is welcome, the devs have a good track record with not making equip unbalanced, but the cloak seems like it can be a balance nightmare. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1913
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:The more I consider it, the more this piece of equip/gear worries me. I have my fingers crossed CCP limits it with game balance as the priority. I'd like to see...
A) It be an active module with a time limit/cool-down B) It require active manipulation like a weapon/the active scanner. If you switch to a weapon, the cloak dissipates. C) Max effectiveness that requires zero movement, be nice to see a "shimmer" or predator effect when guys are moving.
I've never played a game with a cloak so feedback from those who have is welcome, the devs have a good track record with not making equip unbalanced, but the cloak seems like it can be a balance nightmare. I'd be shocked if it didn't have a timer and wasn't a mod that could we can put SP into to make last longer. Cloak works wonderfully in KZ3 - hope Dust can pull it off as well. |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
1019
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm sure that when the cloak is implemented CCP will be so nervous about people crying OP that it will be completely useless, and I am also sure people will still cry OP at it. |
Spademan
Hydra II-Omega
3
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Posted - 2013.04.02 00:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Agreed on all points. Also, another point I'd like to bring up, y'know those ships that drop in your vehicles? They've got a cloak, ever notice that loud noise they emit? (I'm sure you have) I personally would like to see that for infantry ones, if somewhat quieter, to "discourage" use in crowded areas. |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Big difference between people CRYING OP and something actually BEING OP. I'd like to think the more reasonable of us know the difference.
Someone hits their cloak, flanks wide and sneaks up on my tank and finishes me off with AV's, I have no issue.
That's more than fair. But some sniper lining up a shot while cloaked or a guy camping in a corner cloaked with his finger on R1 waiting for someone to pass by?
NO THANKS. |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
134
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Personally the only advantage it gives are to snipers and corner campers.
And 1. A good sniper can't be seen anyway 2. A corner camper is probably going to kill you anyway
Because supposedly it shimmers when you move and goes away when you fire. More for hiding than use in active combat |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
134
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think me and kush just posted the same thing at the same time ._. |
Xender17
Oblivion S.G.X
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Probably predator type thing going on. I would imagine variants like timed, mobility, appearance or attacking disruption. Timed:has no negative effects other then it being timed. Mobility: move slower when active. Appearance: shimmers when you move. Disruption: when you attack or are attacked the the cloak disappears. would be op if nova knives didn't affect cloak? |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1914
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cloaks for LAV plz. Black Ops LAV was very miss-leading in the testers tournament. |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Errrmmm....I'm confused. Sooooo you're saying snipers SHOULD be able to line up a shot while cloaked? A guy SHOULD be able to sit in a corner cloaked with his finger on the trigger?
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Protoman Is God
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2013.04.02 00:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:The more I consider it, the more this piece of equip/gear worries me. I have my fingers crossed CCP limits it with game balance as the priority. I'd like to see...
A) It be an active module with a time limit/cool-down B) It require active manipulation like a weapon/the active scanner. If you switch to a weapon, the cloak dissipates. C) Max effectiveness that requires zero movement, be nice to see a "shimmer" or predator effect when guys are moving.
I've never played a game with a cloak so feedback from those who have is welcome, the devs have a good track record with not making equip unbalanced, but the cloak seems like it can be a balance nightmare. I'd be shocked if it didn't have a timer and wasn't a mod that could we can put SP into to make last longer. Cloak works wonderfully in KZ3 - hope Dust can pull it off as well.
KZ3 was terrible in it's own right but the cloak was just broken. KZ2 implemented cloak wonderfully though. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1916
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Protoman Is God wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:The more I consider it, the more this piece of equip/gear worries me. I have my fingers crossed CCP limits it with game balance as the priority. I'd like to see...
A) It be an active module with a time limit/cool-down B) It require active manipulation like a weapon/the active scanner. If you switch to a weapon, the cloak dissipates. C) Max effectiveness that requires zero movement, be nice to see a "shimmer" or predator effect when guys are moving.
I've never played a game with a cloak so feedback from those who have is welcome, the devs have a good track record with not making equip unbalanced, but the cloak seems like it can be a balance nightmare. I'd be shocked if it didn't have a timer and wasn't a mod that could we can put SP into to make last longer. Cloak works wonderfully in KZ3 - hope Dust can pull it off as well. KZ3 was terrible in it's own right but the cloak was just broken. KZ2 implemented cloak wonderfully though. I played the HELL out of KZ2 when it first came out. KZ3 had those cool movie scenes - but not the gaming glory. KZ2 is hard to play now though lol |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Here's what I've heard about the cloak:
It must be activated It is distorted when you move (shimmers or something), and running either disables or causes an even greater shimmer (can't remember) Firing your weapon disables it Countered by Scanning (think Active is better, though Passive too)
So, its going to be an equipment or mod that you select to activate, but then can switch to your weapon...actually, more that I think about it it'll be a mod, activated like you do in vehicles, without switching your weapon; if it follows that, they don't need to really tweak anything for a reactivation delay. Pretty much, I just see campers using this; both the sniper on the mountain and the guy hiding behind a corner with a shotgun (and you never see either until they fire at you anyway, so do they really get much of an advantage cloaking?); after all, you are seen unless moving at a terribly slow speed or not moving at all (any distortion in the graphics causes me to turn and see what's going on, I hope others are like that too) and scanning still shows your position (so if you really want to cloak, invest in those dampening skills)
Also, cloaks in EVE have penalties for use; you can only fit one per ship (otherwise none work), can't target for X-seconds after deactivating, can't activate modules while the cloak is in use, movement penalty is decreased by a lot (except for covert-ops mods on ships that can fit them), if anything comes within 2,000m the cloak auto-deactivates, and there is a reactivation delay. Covert-Ops (and the like) ships reduce or eliminate some of these penalties (so, yes, I bet there will be covert-ops dropsuits eventually). So, I do think the Dust cloaks are going to be similar to EVE cloaks, with slight differences for the gameplay.
EDIT: Forgot positives to cloaking in EVE...you can't be seen, targeted or scanned-down. |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
135
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:Errrmmm....I'm confused. Sooooo you're saying snipers SHOULD be able to line up a shot while cloaked? A guy SHOULD be able to sit in a corner cloaked with his finger on the trigger?
No just how the item was describe thats really the main group that will get the advantage from it, even though both groups wouldn't need the cloak to be annoying |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Probably predator type thing going on. I would imagine variants like timed, mobility, appearance or attacking disruption. Timed:has no negative effects other then it being timed. Mobility: move slower when active. Appearance: shimmers when you move. Disruption: when you attack or are attacked the the cloak disappears. would be op if nova knives didn't affect cloak?
timed would be terrible tbqh. higher tier ones should get more time, less shimmer and a shorter cooldown but like the op stated, switching to a weapon should disrupt the field. will be nova knife 514 if u let scout knifers run around with a 30 second cloak.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2330
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
The devs have confirmed that the cloak will be an Equipment item, not something that goes into a High or Low slot.
They've also stated that it won't (at least in the current plan) affect your scan profile, so sensors will still mark you on the minimap - but nobody's given a straight answer on whether you'll get the chevrons over a cloaked target's head.
At the moment, the plan is that moving will "disrupt" the cloak and make you more visible/less invisible.
Coolodown timer is confirmed, but not duration for either effect or cooldown. |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Winscar Shinobi wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:Errrmmm....I'm confused. Sooooo you're saying snipers SHOULD be able to line up a shot while cloaked? A guy SHOULD be able to sit in a corner cloaked with his finger on the trigger? No just how the item was describe thats really the main group that will get the advantage from it, even though both groups wouldn't need the cloak to be annoying
OK gotcha. Yeah i'd just like to see the item be as tactical as possible with low chance for abuse. One look at how snipers more of a "wound" class (which snipers have never stopped whining about, btw) tells us CCP isn't into the cheap kills.
I just hope they get this one right too. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2221
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Whatever it is, it needs to have high CPU/PG, like unreasonably high.
Then, scouts get a nice big % off of the CPU/PG cost to equip. Stealth is supposed to be the scouts realm. That doesn't mean that other suits shouldn't have the option to equip it, but they should suffer for doing so. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:... tells us CCP isn't into the cheap kills... I'm waiting for webs to come to Dust...when they do, tankers will cry rivers. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Whatever it is, it needs to have high CPU/PG, like unreasonably high.
Then, scouts get a nice big % off of the CPU/PG cost to equip. Stealth is supposed to be the scouts realm. That doesn't mean that other suits shouldn't have the option to equip it, but they should suffer for doing so. It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. |
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Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:... tells us CCP isn't into the cheap kills... I'm waiting for webs to come to Dust...when they do, tankers will cry rivers.
I can dig it. "run now beeeootch!!"
Tank go BOOM. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2331
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Whatever it is, it needs to have high CPU/PG, like unreasonably high.
Then, scouts get a nice big % off of the CPU/PG cost to equip. Stealth is supposed to be the scouts realm. That doesn't mean that other suits shouldn't have the option to equip it, but they should suffer for doing so. It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Agreed on all points. Also, another point I'd like to bring up, y'know those ships that drop in your vehicles? They've got a cloak, ever notice that loud noise they emit? (I'm sure you have) I personally would like to see that for infantry ones, if somewhat quieter, to "discourage" use in crowded areas.
this is good. a light hum would be nice.
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Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Whatever it is, it needs to have high CPU/PG, like unreasonably high.
Then, scouts get a nice big % off of the CPU/PG cost to equip. Stealth is supposed to be the scouts realm. That doesn't mean that other suits shouldn't have the option to equip it, but they should suffer for doing so. It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away...
I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
183
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
discussion: It better save drop ships and be implemented for them in the next build
/end |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile.
Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile. Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout. In EVE, a Tech-I cloak costs 1 PG and 30 CPU, and fits in a high slot (alongside turrets). Pretty much any ship can fit it with little problems (may have to add a CPU booster if you want to fit all your slots in some frigates, but there's similar problems with other mods as well [I know warp scrambers have about that much CPU cost as well]) The Tech-II variant costs 1 PG and 10,000 CPU (Covert-Ops ships reduce the CPU cost)
I don't see it being that much different in Dust. Eventually we'll get Tech-II stuff, and the T2 cloaks will most likely allow movement while cloaked...but will really only be able to be used on a Covert-Ops dropsuit (which will have its own penalties for use) |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
183
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile. Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout.
This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships.
It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships.
If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf. And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon?
It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
183
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alternatively it could be a feature "Built in" to scouts and drop-ships with a market slot item available as well. ~See Mobile CRU and tier 3 drop-ships with a build in CRU. (see also huge waste of sp/isk in that case...)
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1879
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
I believe all suits should be able to fit the cloak, but allow specialization scout suits (especially the covert ops variants) to benefit more than the traditional dropsuits. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile. Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout. This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships. It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships. If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf. And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon? It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU. And again, for Dropsuits it's confirmed to be EQUIPMENT, not a module.
No word (yet) on vehicle cloaking. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
330
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
As a person who played some of Killzone 3's,and quite a bit of Crysis 2's multiplayer,all I can say is that cloaks are a bad idea.
if you highly restrict them,then what's the use,other than calling in orbitals? If you make them where you can run around and sneak up on people while cloaked,well that's just trouble that nobody needs. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile. Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout. This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships. It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships. If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf. And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon? It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU. No ship in EVE can cloak (outside the cloak that happens when you exit a jumpgate) without a cloak mod. None of them. Dust will not be different. You will have to activate a mod in order to cloak, and you will be penalized for cloaking.
Cloak-specialized ships are Tech-II in EVE...we only have Tech-I in Dust so far. Also, there are Covert-Ops Frigates (Scouts), Recon Cruisers (Assault), Blockade-Runner Transports (not exactly Logi, but whatever) and Black-Ops Battleships (Heavies) in EVE...all Tech-II, all can use the nifty Tech-II cloaks.
Heck, here's the description for the Helios, a Covert Ops frigate: "Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavorable encounters.
Developer: Creodron
The Helios is Creodron's answer to the Ishukone Buzzard. After the fall of Crielere, the once-cordial relations between the Gallente Federation and the Caldari state deteriorated rapidly and, for a while, it seemed as if war might be brewing. It was seen by certain high-ranking officers within the Gallente navy as being of vital importance to be able to match the Caldari's cloaking technology in an effort to maintain the balance of power." |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2224
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this.
I hope not, scouts have the least CPU/PG out of everything. I'll be pissed if assaults and logis are more effective stealth than scouts >_< |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1158
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
I don't play eve myself, and therefor have limited knowledge, but I'll still say this- look to eve to see what to expect. If I've heard right, a titan trying to be sneaky with cloaking is a joke.
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Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:As a person who played some of Killzone 3's,and quite a bit of Crysis 2's multiplayer,all I can say is that cloaks are a bad idea.
if you highly restrict them,then what's the use,other than calling in orbitals? If you make them where you can run around and sneak up on people while cloaked,well that's just trouble that nobody needs. What did I always use a cloaked Ghost for? Calling in Nukes... |
Sev Alcatraz
The Tritan Industries
202
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
The cloak system from crysis (2/3) is what dust needs |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. I hope not, scouts have the least CPU/PG out of everything. I'll be pissed if assaults and logis are more effective stealth than scouts >_< The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... |
Schalac 17
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
If they implement it like the cloak in Halo then it will be perfect. The only problem I would see with it is they need to improve the graphics so that the "shimmer" effect actually stands out, because as it is right now it seems like the whole map is shimmering what with the low rez and blurred edges everything has when you play on a 1080p TV. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
183
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships.
It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships.
If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf. And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon?
It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU. And again, for Dropsuits it's confirmed to be EQUIPMENT, not a module. Heavies have no equipment slots, therefore no cloaking. No word (yet) on vehicle cloaking. But personally, I can't see a problem with a fragile and low-damage tank that has a cloaking system. If you have to sacrifice enough to get a cloaked tank, it won't be OP. EDIT: Especially if the cloak is purely visual-spectrum and doesn't prevent Swarm lock-on.
um right, a 2 second scan of the map with swarms would reveal any and all cloaked DS then. Seems a little broken. |
|
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2224
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS...
That's not what I mean.
What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts.
Aka. Stupid >_< |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1879
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. I hope not, scouts have the least CPU/PG out of everything. I'll be pissed if assaults and logis are more effective stealth than scouts >_<
What's sad about that right now is that the logi is already the stealthiest suit in the game.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66800&find=unread
How surprising. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:um right, a 2 second scan of the map with swarms would reveal any and all cloaked DS then. Seems a little broken. I can't think of a single map where there's literally no cover a cloaked Dropship can use.
And if you need the cloaked target to be lit up by non-visual means to be a valid target, then it's not broken. You still have to get someone close enough to pick it up on scanners before you can lock on, and if you lose the sensor tracking, you lose your lock. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1879
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_<
This. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1158
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
Schalac 17 wrote:If they implement it like the cloak in Halo then it will be perfect. The only problem I would see with it is they need to improve the graphics so that the "shimmer" effect actually stands out, because as it is right now it seems like the whole map is shimmering what with the low rez and blurred edges everything has when you play on a 1080p TV. I'm actually thinking they'll have to do the opposite for the shimmer. If you've played in the "codex" build, you'll remember that everyone was ridiculously easy to see, because fog silhouetted them at a distance. I'm willing to bet that the shimmer with cloaking will result in having that glitch all over again. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Schalac 17 wrote:If they implement it like the cloak in Halo then it will be perfect. The only problem I would see with it is they need to improve the graphics so that the "shimmer" effect actually stands out, because as it is right now it seems like the whole map is shimmering what with the low rez and blurred edges everything has when you play on a 1080p TV. I'm actually thinking they'll have to do the opposite for the shimmer. If you've played in the "codex" build, you'll remember that everyone was ridiculously easy to see, because fog silhouetted them at a distance. I'm willing to bet that the shimmer with cloaking will result in having that glitch all over again. Unless there's a range-based "when target is X metres away, render NOTHING" system which applies even while moving. |
Yani Nabari
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aw, no stealth heavies? I would love to hear them coming.
I'm really wondering how it will work now. In a way I'd like it to drain shield and remain active as long as you still have shields up. |
Talryn Vilneram
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I don't play eve myself, and therefor have limited knowledge, but I'll still say this- look to eve to see what to expect. If I've heard right, a titan trying to be sneaky with cloaking is a joke.
Actually, in EVE, ALL ships can use a tech 1 prototype (the worst) or an improved cloak. They can actually use any of the officer and faction cloaks too. It is standard to have one of these cloaks fitted to your supercarrier or your titan almost all the time so you can hide these extremely expensive assets when they aren't in combat. You can't do anything when you are cloaked except move at a fraction of your subspace speeds. None of these ships can warp cloaked. Even tech 2 black ops battleships cannot warp cloaked. The only ships that can warp and move unimpeded are covert op ships that can fit covops cloaks. These ships are weaker then their non cloaky counterparts but the surprise factor balances out. And only stealth bombers have no locking penalty after decloaking and they blow up if you look at them too hard. Cloaks are pretty well balanced in EVE so I expect CCP will have no issues in DUST.
CCP has an intense fear of releasing things overpowered so they release things heavily nerfed and revisit them later. I waited 2 years before buying and using a BlackOps battleship because they were so pre nerfed and they JUST got buffed to usefulness on the last expansion. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't.
Tech-II Covert Ops suits will |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't. Tech-II Covert Ops suits will Source? |
|
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 03:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't. Tech-II Covert Ops suits will Source? EVE Online |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 03:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't. Tech-II Covert Ops suits will Source? EVE Online So you have no valid source saying it will work in a manner which is stupid for DUST, and we have plenty of reasons why it shouldn't work that way.
It could potentially go either way, but I'm reasonably sure it won't work that way when the Scout is described as having built-in equipment that's logical to tie in with a cloak system.. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2225
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 03:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:So you have no valid source saying it will work in a manner which is stupid for DUST, and we have plenty of reasons why it shouldn't work that way.
It could potentially go either way, but I'm reasonably sure it won't work that way when the Scout is described as having built-in equipment that's logical to tie in with a cloak system..
If anything, I can see Tech II scout suits offering you a good chunk off of your cooldown, or allowing you target faster (if there's a targeting delay), or just something else along those lines.
Locking that playstyle into such a narrow source....yea, I don't see that playing out too well. You're talking going past proto, just to be able to stealth effectively. That would be such a slap in the face, if you ask me. |
Eriknaught
666th Hellraisers
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 05:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Holy crap, uncloaking right before smashing someone with my DS!!!! OH MY GOD, THE TEARS!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.....sorry, the potential of these "cloak thingss" just hit me. And YES to the whole "Predator" thing...if anything else they should just completely rip-off the Predator's whole cloak set-up, I'd be fine with that...
...as for snipers: go ahead and make them nigh invisible for all I care....all the more fun for a REVENGE SMASH FROM MY DS!!!!!! |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
254
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Finally, afk farming equipment. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2229
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Finally, afk farming equipment.
Too bad they're active modules |
Tien TheSecond
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
306
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:Winscar Shinobi wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:Errrmmm....I'm confused. Sooooo you're saying snipers SHOULD be able to line up a shot while cloaked? A guy SHOULD be able to sit in a corner cloaked with his finger on the trigger? No just how the item was describe thats really the main group that will get the advantage from it, even though both groups wouldn't need the cloak to be annoying OK gotcha. Yeah i'd just like to see the item be as tactical as possible with low chance for abuse. One look at how snipers more of a "wound" class (which snipers have never stopped whining about, btw) tells us CCP isn't into the cheap kills. I just hope they get this one right too. Everything is 1hk for me, aside from heavies and Assault B Series. Nothing to whine about for me because players dump points into health and suits as much as I dump points into damage. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2333
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Finally, afk farming equipment. Too bad they're active modules No, they're Equipment. Still doesn't help for AFKing, but they're not modules. |
Rupture Reaperson
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 07:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
C) Definately |
Kalante Schiffer
UnReaL.
189
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 08:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
only noobs will use the cloak. |
|
Zeylon Rho
not in a corporation
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 12:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
You know... if these are equipment items, and weapons "decloak" you, then perhaps melee (as opposed to Nova/Shotgun) will be the way to go. You can already slot melee damage upgrades and use SP to upgrade hand-to-hand damage. You can do a melee strike regardless of what you're holding I believe. So, keep the cloak in your hands if you have to actively use it, slot some melee upgrades, run up, *thwack*. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 12:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
isnt melee actually hitting them with the gun since thats whats in your hand at the time? so ur going to hit them with the cloak? fail! |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
180
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:The more I consider it, the more this piece of equip/gear worries me. I have my fingers crossed CCP limits it with game balance as the priority. I'd like to see...
A) It be an active module with a time limit/cool-down B) It require active manipulation like a weapon/the active scanner. If you switch to a weapon, the cloak dissipates. C) Max effectiveness that requires zero movement, be nice to see a "shimmer" or predator effect when guys are moving.
I've never played a game with a cloak so feedback from those who have is welcome, the devs have a good track record with not making equip unbalanced, but the cloak seems like it can be a balance nightmare. I'd be shocked if it didn't have a timer and wasn't a mod that could we can put SP into to make last longer. Cloak works wonderfully in KZ3 - hope Dust can pull it off as well.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No
It was terrible
Sniper with a cloak could stay cloaked if he used a silenced weapon, he could kill cloaked
I did it with the silenced pistol all the time, even better if you found a silenced AR |
CAELAN Andoril
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:37:00 -
[64] - Quote
I've only played one game that had a cloak: Gotham City Impostors. Some people bitched and moaned about it, but I found it reasonably balanced for that game.
You could move as fast as your body type allowed while cloaked, but you constantly made sound and had a predator-style visual effect active at all times. They had the cloak last indefinitely, but honestly I doubt anyone would actually live that long cloaked unless they found an amazing hiding place. Also, they had it that you couldn't even hold your weapon cloaked, nor melee cloaked, and once uncloaked you had to switch to your weapon as if you had something else out all along. And as the game was fairly similar to CoD, they had perks, so one had to utilise certain perks to make themselves truly invisible because GCI also implemented two kinds of tracking equipment: a set of goggles that allowed the player to mark enemies and highlight them to the rest of their team, and a motion tracker that marked any enemy movement in a certain radius.
In the end, however, many people cried out about how the cloak was OP, which led someone to say one of my favourite phrases summing up that entire game: "Situational awareness is OP". |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2345
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:You know... if these are equipment items, and weapons "decloak" you, then perhaps melee (as opposed to Nova/Shotgun) will be the way to go. You can already slot melee damage upgrades and use SP to upgrade hand-to-hand damage. You can do a melee strike regardless of what you're holding I believe. So, keep the cloak in your hands if you have to actively use it, slot some melee upgrades, run up, *thwack*. There are certain equipment items which don't have melee.
Cloak is equipment.
It's possible that Cloak will be melee-disabled like some other equipment is. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Cloak distortion, or "Shimmer" as some may call it, is the worst thing that has happened to cloaks in the history of FPS gaming; it encourages its use for sniping and camping and not much else. Woe be to anyone who dares move! You see, the truth is: anything less than perfect invisibility actually stands out like a sore thumb.
The best way to balance cloaks (IMO) is with a very recognizable sound when cloaking and uncloaking, and a power mechanic for how long you can reliably use it (e.g. your basic cloak drains and restores x and y capacitor respectively while on or off), with power use amplified by movement. Taking damage, albeit only while cloaked, should drain power. Cloaks should require an amount of power to activate (a minimum threshold). Attacking should drain all remaining power and uncloak the user if cloaked.
For variants: Covert ops cloaks might be efficient enough to let the capacitor regenerate while cloaked as long as you're stationary. Maybe have a restock-able single use cloak variant (militia would be a variant of this). You might also not be able to move as fast while cloaked (unless you're using a Covert Ops suit?), so there could be a variant for that too. Cloaks that drain more power but also decrease your profile slightly. The list goes on...
Skills should affect power capacity, recharge, movement speed, and maybe even the volume of the sound made upon cloaking.
Finally, cloaks are very CPU hungry things which require fitting sacrifices. Forget complex damage mods, you're sacrificing damage output for the element of surprise (a good crutch for Nova Knives and Shotguns for example).
If a lot of what I'm typing seems familiar, it's because a lot of it is similar to how TF2 handles cloaking; TF2 does cloaking extremely well.
This is, of course, only my opinion. But I think there's enough evidence out there to prove that while "predator cloaks look awesome", but "awesome" does not make for balanced game play. I've probably missed a few points too.
Thoughts?
TL;DR/bottom line: Cloak distortion is a terrible mechanic by lazy game designers!
|
Zekain Kade
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1138
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
How's about cloak like halo 4's? It has a timer, and if you are near the person using it, it'll screw with your mini map to show you that there is a stalker nearby.
It would.t show the persons exact location. Itll create a cluster of fals red dots in the area around the cloaker. |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
104
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Cloak distortion, or " Shimmer" as some may call it, is the worst thing that has happened to cloaks in the history of FPS gaming; it encourages its use for sniping and camping and not much else. Woe be to anyone who dares move! You see, the truth is: anything less than perfect invisibility actually stands out like a sore thumb. The best way to balance cloaks (IMO) is with a very recognizable sound when cloaking and uncloaking, and a power mechanic for how long you can reliably use it (e.g. your basic cloak drains and restores x and y capacitor respectively while on or off), with power use amplified by movement. Taking damage, albeit only while cloaked, should drain power. Cloaks should require an amount of power to activate (a minimum threshold). Attacking should drain all remaining power and uncloak the user if cloaked. For variants: Covert ops cloaks might be efficient enough to let the capacitor regenerate while cloaked as long as you're stationary. Maybe have a restock-able single use cloak variant (militia would be a variant of this). You might also not be able to move as fast while cloaked (unless you're using a Covert Ops suit?), so there could be a variant for that too. Cloaks that drain more power but also decrease your profile slightly. The list goes on... Skills should affect power capacity, recharge, movement speed, and maybe even the volume of the sound made upon cloaking. Finally, cloaks are very CPU hungry things which require fitting sacrifices. Forget complex damage mods, you're sacrificing damage output for the element of surprise (a good crutch for Nova Knives and Shotguns for example). If a lot of what I'm typing seems familiar, it's because a lot of it is similar to how TF2 handles cloaking; TF2 does cloaking extremely well. This is, of course, only my opinion. But I think there's enough evidence out there to prove that while "predator cloaks look awesome", "awesome" does not make for balanced game play. I've probably missed a few points too. Thoughts? TL;DR/bottom line: Cloak distortion is a terrible mechanic by lazy game designers!
I actually like cloak distortion. As long as it harder to see the distortion the further away its fine.
But both CPU hogging and recognizable sounds upon cloaking/uncloaking are great ideas. Will add those to the original post. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:I actually like cloak distortion. As long as it harder to see the distortion the further away its fine. I agree that it looks nice. But that's about as far as it goes for me. My beef with it lies from the fact that movement distortion encourages camping. The logic goes something like this: - My cloak distorts when I move. - Distortion makes me visible. - I do not want to be seen. - Therefore I will not move.
It has been suggested before that an inverse system - as long as you're moving and the module is on, you're invisible - could work, and I'd tend to agree though it makes about as little sense as HMG accuracy.
TBH it seems like a lot of things could be solved through variants.
e: Essentially, if you're not moving, you're not doing your job right. Even as a sniper. |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
104
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:04:00 -
[70] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:I actually like cloak distortion. As long as it harder to see the distortion the further away its fine. I agree that it looks nice. But that's about as far as it goes for me. My beef with it lies from the fact that movement distortion encourages camping. The logic goes something like this: - My cloak distorts when I move. - Distortion makes me visible. - I do not want to be seen. - Therefore I will not move. It has been suggested before that an inverse system - as long as you're moving and the module is on, you're invisible - could work, and I'd tend to agree though it makes about as little sense as HMG accuracy. TBH it seems like a lot of things could be solved through variants. e: Essentially, if you're not moving, you're not doing your job right. Even as a sniper.
My argument would be "camping isn't strategy" while snipers are a serious threat in Dust, an opponent who doesn't move isn't nearly as dangerous as one who does. Movement is necessary in FPS, most elite players are always moving.
If a guy wants to sit in one place camping with a cloak praying the guy he's behind doesn't hear it? FINE. I'll take guys who are advancing, taking ground and flanking over that every day of the week and TWICE on sunday. |
|
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
776
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=46129&p=3
This has some points already worked out ^
Maybe give it a read |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 17:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:I'll take guys who are advancing, taking ground and flanking over that every day of the week and TWICE on sunday.
This is exactly why I dislike regular distortion cloaks, and why I'm so opposed to things that encourage sitting still for extended periods of time. Those guys advancing, taking ground and flanking aren't going to use a cloak if it doesn't help them do what they need to do; being able to move unseen across open terrain is the wet dream of any soldier.
The RDVs are completely invisible until they deploy their payload, so obviously we have the level of tech to provide highly mobile units with perfect cloaking.
Ships in EVE are completely invisible while cloaked; and not only that but it also hides you from directional scans, probes, and lasts indefinitely as long as you don't get too close to anything.
Cloaks in Dust should by extension at least provide complete visual cloaking. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 17:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
Geez.. a lot of hate for cloaks. Even tho its not going to stop a good sniper from tagging you. Snipers don't move. Not after the first two shots at least. But thing is (again shows who's played a lot of FPS) like in KZ snipers, cloaked or not, are not hard to find. geez.. I'll give you a hint. They are not in the middle of map.
Me, I don't mind cloaks. Balancing? If a whole squad cloaked can win an ambush match, then don't blame the cloaks. Re-evaluate your team. |
Solarisjock
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 17:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
I think Cloaks should work very similar to EVE. Proximity drops it, and a lock on timer. I think if you get within 20-25m of someone, it automatically drops cloak (maybe40- 50m for vehicle cloaks) and when it does your HUD goes to static because of "insert correct lore themed reason here" so you cannot see your cross hairs/sights/ammo etc for 5 seconds. have the main skill lower the CPU/PG cost, with two supplemental skills, one for proximity, and another for HUD Fuzz. Tech/Meta level stuff will increase or decrease the default proximity and fuzz timers. Issue with this is no aim weapons like mass driver and shotgun are still highly exploitable. |
Schalac 17
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Solarisjock wrote:I think Cloaks should work very similar to EVE. Proximity drops it, and a lock on timer. I think if you get within 20-25m of someone, it automatically drops cloak (maybe40- 50m for vehicle cloaks) and when it does your HUD goes to static because of "insert correct lore themed reason here" so you cannot see your cross hairs/sights/ammo etc for 5 seconds. have the main skill lower the CPU/PG cost, with two supplemental skills, one for proximity, and another for HUD Fuzz. Tech/Meta level stuff will increase or decrease the default proximity and fuzz timers. Issue with this is no aim weapons like mass driver and shotgun are still highly exploitable. So cloaking would remove the ability for you to put the gun on your shoulder? Also, no hud is easily exploited with a dry erase marker. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Geez.. a lot of hate for cloaks. Even tho its not going to stop a good sniper from tagging you. Snipers don't move. Not after the first two shots at least. But thing is (again shows who's played a lot of FPS) like in KZ snipers, cloaked or not, are not hard to find. geez.. I'll give you a hint. They are not in the middle of map.
Me, I don't mind cloaks. Balancing? If a whole squad cloaked can win an ambush match, then don't blame the cloaks. Re-evaluate your team.
or evaluate ur game smarty. thankfully ur not a ccp game designer. any idiot can see this game has several weapons and large maps that would make the wrong kind of cloak an exploit. |
Den-baron Tredje
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:07:00 -
[77] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Also, cloaks in EVE have penalties for use; you can only fit one per ship (otherwise none work), can't target for X-seconds after deactivating, can't activate modules while the cloak is in use, movement penalty is decreased by a lot (except for covert-ops mods on ships that can fit them), if anything comes within 2,000m the cloak auto-deactivates, and there is a reactivation delay. Covert-Ops (and the like) ships reduce or eliminate some of these penalties (so, yes, I bet there will be covert-ops dropsuits eventually). So, I do think the Dust cloaks are going to be similar to EVE cloaks, with slight differences for the gameplay.
EDIT: Forgot positives to cloaking in EVE...you can't be seen, targeted or scanned-down.
I also think they'r going to be somewhat like cloaks are in eve. Maybe they can only be fitted to scout suits ( or some black ops suit in the future )
Maybe you wont be able to fire your weapon AT ALL when cloaked. That way the sniper lining up his shoot won't be OP as he has to fiddle to his module screen, turn off the cloak and then will be able to fire. Same deal for the corner camper. To rule out the guys who sneak up on someone with an active cloak as OP, maybe you ( as in eve ) get some kind of attacking delay. FX an assault dude can't uncloak and unleash his gek into the back head of someone but he has to look at the other guys bumm for a bit. This way the specific suits can have individual attack delays so that heavy has a lot, assault less, and scout little ( B-OPS suit none ?? ) |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
173
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Posted - 2013.04.25 22:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
So...cloak confirmed for Uprising. Sure hope its balanced by making it have a time limit, rendering the user fully invisible only when he's still, making it a device you need to hold like the scanner and giving a distinctive sound when the user cloaks/uncloaks.
We'll see on May 6th... |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
424
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Posted - 2013.04.25 22:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:So...cloak confirmed for Uprising. Sure hope its balanced by making it have a time limit, rendering the user fully invisible only when he's still, making it a device you need to hold like the scanner and giving a distinctive sound when the user cloaks/uncloaks.
We'll see on May 6th...
what are you talking about confirmed for uprising? the only "cloak" I saw was spawn protection. There was no mention of any modules or anything that involved cloak.
Though, my question to CCP is how do you explain a suit that spawns cloaked, yet has no cloaking module. Some sort of "materializing cloak" no doubt. *shrug*
but it was not an "active" cloak they were using. If it were, they'd have put it on their list of included features. I mean, thats kinda a thing. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2604
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 22:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:So...cloak confirmed for Uprising. Sure hope its balanced by making it have a time limit, rendering the user fully invisible only when he's still, making it a device you need to hold like the scanner and giving a distinctive sound when the user cloaks/uncloaks.
We'll see on May 6th... Cloak confirmed as a spawn protection and not something available to equip and use.
Cloak confirmed recently to NOT be coming on release of Uprising.
We won't see on May 6th, we'll see when cloaking is ACTUALLY released. |
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