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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
   |
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile. Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout. This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships. It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships. If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf. And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon? It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU.
And again, for Dropsuits it's confirmed to be EQUIPMENT, not a module.
No word (yet) on vehicle cloaking. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
330
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
As a person who played some of Killzone 3's,and quite a bit of Crysis 2's multiplayer,all I can say is that cloaks are a bad idea.
if you highly restrict them,then what's the use,other than calling in orbitals? If you make them where you can run around and sneak up on people while cloaked,well that's just trouble that nobody needs. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scout description makes them out to be a Covert Ops role already. Doesn't mean they will be tech-II (which all the stealth ships are) right away... I think it means they have less signature radius and are harder to detect and target (kinda like frigates in EVE). Signature profile is confirmed to be a function of frame size in DUST. Scouts are the only Small Frame suit we have at the moment, and have a VERY small Profile advantage compared with both current Medium Frame suits. If that's a "reduced" profile for their size, then something is very wrong, because that means other Small Frame suits will have a higher Profile than the Scout, which means they have to fit between 45 and 50, which is not only a tight margin with no clean numbers, but also too small a margin to make Small Frames worthwhile. Also, Scouts already have PG/CPU shortage compared with other suits, so NOT giving them some kind of fitting discount would make other suits more viable to cloak with. While I'm not entirely averse to the idea of a Logi cloaker with a Shotgun, I'm a little worried if that's going to be a better option than a cloaked Scout. This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships. It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships. If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf. And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon? It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU.
No ship in EVE can cloak (outside the cloak that happens when you exit a jumpgate) without a cloak mod. None of them.
Dust will not be different. You will have to activate a mod in order to cloak, and you will be penalized for cloaking.
Cloak-specialized ships are Tech-II in EVE...we only have Tech-I in Dust so far. Also, there are Covert-Ops Frigates (Scouts), Recon Cruisers (Assault), Blockade-Runner Transports (not exactly Logi, but whatever) and Black-Ops Battleships (Heavies) in EVE...all Tech-II, all can use the nifty Tech-II cloaks.
Heck, here's the description for the Helios, a Covert Ops frigate:
"Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavorable encounters.
Developer: Creodron
The Helios is Creodron's answer to the Ishukone Buzzard. After the fall of Crielere, the once-cordial relations between the Gallente Federation and the Caldari state deteriorated rapidly and, for a while, it seemed as if war might be brewing. It was seen by certain high-ranking officers within the Gallente navy as being of vital importance to be able to match the Caldari's cloaking technology in an effort to maintain the balance of power." |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
2224
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this.
I hope not, scouts have the least CPU/PG out of everything. I'll be pissed if assaults and logis are more effective stealth than scouts >_< |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1158
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
I don't play eve myself, and therefor have limited knowledge, but I'll still say this-
look to eve to see what to expect. If I've heard right, a titan trying to be sneaky with cloaking is a joke.
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Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:As a person who played some of Killzone 3's,and quite a bit of Crysis 2's multiplayer,all I can say is that cloaks are a bad idea.
if you highly restrict them,then what's the use,other than calling in orbitals? If you make them where you can run around and sneak up on people while cloaked,well that's just trouble that nobody needs.
What did I always use a cloaked Ghost for? Calling in Nukes... |
Sev Alcatraz
The Tritan Industries
202
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
The cloak system from crysis (2/3) is what dust needs |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. I hope not, scouts have the least CPU/PG out of everything. I'll be pissed if assaults and logis are more effective stealth than scouts >_<
The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... |
Schalac 17
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
If they implement it like the cloak in Halo then it will be perfect. The only problem I would see with it is they need to improve the graphics so that the "shimmer" effect actually stands out, because as it is right now it seems like the whole map is shimmering what with the low rez and blurred edges everything has when you play on a 1080p TV. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
183
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:This is why I think scouts / dropships will have a cloaking ability build into their suits/ships.
It's been written about that both would have cloaking, and scouts in game description alludes to this. The dev blog from ...like 3 years ago mentions cloaking as a feature of drop-ships.
If either of the two were to require the CPU/PG/Slot occupation of another module it would be a huge wtf.
And it makes sense in light of this that it would not be a module which other suits or vehicles could purchase and equip. Cloaked tanks? lol Cloaked heavies...comeon?
It won't be a slot item and therefore shouldn't take PG/CPU. And again, for Dropsuits it's confirmed to be EQUIPMENT, not a module. Heavies have no equipment slots, therefore no cloaking. No word (yet) on vehicle cloaking. But personally, I can't see a problem with a fragile and low-damage tank that has a cloaking system. If you have to sacrifice enough to get a cloaked tank, it won't be OP. EDIT: Especially if the cloak is purely visual-spectrum and doesn't prevent Swarm lock-on.
um right, a 2 second scan of the map with swarms would reveal any and all cloaked DS then. Seems a little broken. |
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DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
2224
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Posted - 2013.04.02 01:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS...
That's not what I mean.
What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts.
Aka. Stupid >_< |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1879
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:It may have higher CPU/PG, but it will be for ALL suits...until they add Covert-Ops suits (and there will be one for each type of suit, eventually) which are made for this. I hope not, scouts have the least CPU/PG out of everything. I'll be pissed if assaults and logis are more effective stealth than scouts >_<
What's sad about that right now is that the logi is already the stealthiest suit in the game.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66800&find=unread
How surprising. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:um right, a 2 second scan of the map with swarms would reveal any and all cloaked DS then. Seems a little broken.
I can't think of a single map where there's literally no cover a cloaked Dropship can use.
And if you need the cloaked target to be lit up by non-visual means to be a valid target, then it's not broken. You still have to get someone close enough to pick it up on scanners before you can lock on, and if you lose the sensor tracking, you lose your lock. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1879
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_<
This. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1158
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
Schalac 17 wrote:If they implement it like the cloak in Halo then it will be perfect. The only problem I would see with it is they need to improve the graphics so that the "shimmer" effect actually stands out, because as it is right now it seems like the whole map is shimmering what with the low rez and blurred edges everything has when you play on a 1080p TV.
I'm actually thinking they'll have to do the opposite for the shimmer. If you've played in the "codex" build, you'll remember that everyone was ridiculously easy to see, because fog silhouetted them at a distance. I'm willing to bet that the shimmer with cloaking will result in having that glitch all over again. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Schalac 17 wrote:If they implement it like the cloak in Halo then it will be perfect. The only problem I would see with it is they need to improve the graphics so that the "shimmer" effect actually stands out, because as it is right now it seems like the whole map is shimmering what with the low rez and blurred edges everything has when you play on a 1080p TV. I'm actually thinking they'll have to do the opposite for the shimmer. If you've played in the "codex" build, you'll remember that everyone was ridiculously easy to see, because fog silhouetted them at a distance. I'm willing to bet that the shimmer with cloaking will result in having that glitch all over again.
Unless there's a range-based "when target is X metres away, render NOTHING" system which applies even while moving. |
Yani Nabari
One-Armed Bandits
Atrocitas
5
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Posted - 2013.04.02 02:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aw, no stealth heavies? I would love to hear them coming.
I'm really wondering how it will work now. In a way I'd like it to drain shield and remain active as long as you still have shields up. |
Talryn Vilneram
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I don't play eve myself, and therefor have limited knowledge, but I'll still say this-
look to eve to see what to expect. If I've heard right, a titan trying to be sneaky with cloaking is a joke.
Actually, in EVE, ALL ships can use a tech 1 prototype (the worst) or an improved cloak. They can actually use any of the officer and faction cloaks too. It is standard to have one of these cloaks fitted to your supercarrier or your titan almost all the time so you can hide these extremely expensive assets when they aren't in combat. You can't do anything when you are cloaked except move at a fraction of your subspace speeds. None of these ships can warp cloaked. Even tech 2 black ops battleships cannot warp cloaked. The only ships that can warp and move unimpeded are covert op ships that can fit covops cloaks. These ships are weaker then their non cloaky counterparts but the surprise factor balances out. And only stealth bombers have no locking penalty after decloaking and they blow up if you look at them too hard. Cloaks are pretty well balanced in EVE so I expect CCP will have no issues in DUST.
CCP has an intense fear of releasing things overpowered so they release things heavily nerfed and revisit them later. I waited 2 years before buying and using a BlackOps battleship because they were so pre nerfed and they JUST got buffed to usefulness on the last expansion. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_<
They won't.
Tech-II Covert Ops suits will |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't. Tech-II Covert Ops suits will
Source? |
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Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
154
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Posted - 2013.04.02 03:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't. Tech-II Covert Ops suits will Source?
EVE Online |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2332
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 03:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:The cloak is disrupted by movement (any) and does not block scanning...so yes, a scout cloaked will be hidden better than any other suit...when not moving. Moving, everyone's pretty much the same when in another's LOS... That's not what I mean. What I mean is that if scouts don't receive some kind of bonus for fitting a cloak, they will have to run severely hindered fits in order to be able to stealth. Logistics and Assault players will have much more breathing room for fits, and thus, will be more effective stealth units than scouts. Aka. Stupid >_< They won't. Tech-II Covert Ops suits will Source? EVE Online
So you have no valid source saying it will work in a manner which is stupid for DUST, and we have plenty of reasons why it shouldn't work that way.
It could potentially go either way, but I'm reasonably sure it won't work that way when the Scout is described as having built-in equipment that's logical to tie in with a cloak system.. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
2225
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 03:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:So you have no valid source saying it will work in a manner which is stupid for DUST, and we have plenty of reasons why it shouldn't work that way.
It could potentially go either way, but I'm reasonably sure it won't work that way when the Scout is described as having built-in equipment that's logical to tie in with a cloak system..
If anything, I can see Tech II scout suits offering you a good chunk off of your cooldown, or allowing you target faster (if there's a targeting delay), or just something else along those lines.
Locking that playstyle into such a narrow source....yea, I don't see that playing out too well. You're talking going past proto, just to be able to stealth effectively. That would be such a slap in the face, if you ask me. |
Eriknaught
666th Hellraisers
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 05:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Holy crap, uncloaking right before smashing someone with my DS!!!! OH MY GOD, THE TEARS!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.....sorry, the potential of these "cloak thingss" just hit me. And YES to the whole "Predator" thing...if anything else they should just completely rip-off the Predator's whole cloak set-up, I'd be fine with that...
...as for snipers: go ahead and make them nigh invisible for all I care....all the more fun for a REVENGE SMASH FROM MY DS!!!!!! |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
254
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Finally, afk farming equipment. |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
2229
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Finally, afk farming equipment.
Too bad they're active modules  |
Tien TheSecond
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
306
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:Winscar Shinobi wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:Errrmmm....I'm confused. Sooooo you're saying snipers SHOULD be able to line up a shot while cloaked? A guy SHOULD be able to sit in a corner cloaked with his finger on the trigger?  No just how the item was describe thats really the main group that will get the advantage from it, even though both groups wouldn't need the cloak to be annoying OK gotcha. Yeah i'd just like to see the item be as tactical as possible with low chance for abuse. One look at how snipers more of a "wound" class (which snipers have never stopped whining about, btw) tells us CCP isn't into the cheap kills. I just hope they get this one right too.
Everything is 1hk for me, aside from heavies and Assault B Series. Nothing to whine about for me because players dump points into health and suits as much as I dump points into damage. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2333
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Finally, afk farming equipment. Too bad they're active modules
No, they're Equipment. Still doesn't help for AFKing, but they're not modules. |
Rupture Reaperson
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
72
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
C) Definately |
Kalante Schiffer
UnReaL.
189
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Posted - 2013.04.02 08:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
only noobs will use the cloak. |
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