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Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention
135
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm probably gonna get trolled the **** here for suggesting this but please try to be constructive in your replies....
Rather than changing the price, mod count and cpu and power. Why not give each suit a projectile damage resistance against their armor not shield.
For example, maybe not such a degree but Militia heavy suits get a 10% damage reduction, Standard get 25%, Advance 35% and Proto get a 50%. This would make the price o the suits more worth while and the lack of mod slots and CPU and Power could be chalked up to simply empowering the suits resistances.
With a buff like this Heavies won't be a laughing stock since people with AR's ect would struggle one vs one unless their using weapons like mass drivers or lasers ect.
Too much of a buff you think? or maybe numbers to high? |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
1013
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
AR people don't even want the Adv / Proto suits buffed by giving them more slots, and lowering the price on the Proto suits... you REALLY think they not gonna cry about a buff like this? |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like the idea but I think that 5%, 10%, 15%, 25%, and 35% would be more reasonable just because 50% is an insane amount of resistance. |
Chibi Andy
Destruction Initiative Enterprise
54
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit |
Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention
135
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
shellhead wrote:I like the idea but I think that 5%, 10%, 15%, 25%, and 35% would be more reasonable just because 50% is an insane amount of resistance.
Yeah I agree actually, more realistic numbers |
Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention
135
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:AR people don't even want the Adv / Proto suits buffed by giving them more slots, and lowering the price on the Proto suits... you REALLY think they not gonna cry about a buff like this?
Of course their gonna cry, god forbid that they lose their easy kills and advantage that they shouldn't have |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
301
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
...Really? Damage reduction is the best way to go? Even though a heavy has the highest amount of EHP in the game? Heavy =/= auto win button.
I can agree that heavies scale badly, but at the same time, introducing damage resistance isn't the way to go. There are other, much better ways to balance heavies.
Edit: There are already armor and shield resists - each weapon does a different amount of damage to shield than to armor. The proposal means a blanket x% decrease of damage to the heavy across the board. It doesn't fit in lore-wise, and it would wreck the balance of the game. It would mean a return of the game to the era when heavies with ARs dominated the game. |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Laheon wrote:...Really? Damage reduction is the best way to go? Even though a heavy has the highest amount of EHP in the game? Heavy =/= auto win button.
I can agree that heavies scale badly, but at the same time, introducing damage resistance isn't the way to go. There are other, much better ways to balance heavies. Such as? This is actually one of the best and most role-centric ideas I've seen so far. Everything else I've seen wouldn't help the heavy at all or would make it insanely OP. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
68
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit
Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
301
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Turning buff, slight speed buff, smaller hitbox, a buff to the armor plating modules, a buff to armor at the higher tiers... Anything but a damage reduction. Too much room for abuse. |
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shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout.
You mean the weakest class in the game with almost no armor and very small shields can't take out a class thats meant to be a walking anti-infantry suit? Damn, heavies sure are OP. |
Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention
136
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout.
They strafe faster than heavies can turn, that ALONE is unfair. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
68
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
shellhead wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout. You mean the weakest class in the game with almost no armor and very small shields can't take out a class thats meant to be a walking anti-infantry suit? Damn, heavies sure are OP.
Just saying all you guys whine how you die so fast in a gun fight. You have noooo idea what those words even mean. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
68
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout. They strafe faster than heavies can turn, that ALONE is unfair.
I keep hearing how Scouts strafe soooooo fast and they out run your bullets all the time.. I say learn to shoot cause I have absolutely XERO problem hitting them. |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Turning buff, slight speed buff, smaller hitbox, a buff to the armor plating modules, a buff to armor at the higher tiers... Anything but a damage reduction. Too much room for abuse. I don't see how added resistance has more room for abuse than a smaller hitbox or faster turning. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
1013
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Laheon wrote:...Really? Damage reduction is the best way to go? Even though a heavy has the highest amount of EHP in the game? Heavy =/= auto win button.
I can agree that heavies scale badly, but at the same time, introducing damage resistance isn't the way to go. There are other, much better ways to balance heavies.
Edit: There are already armor and shield resists - each weapon does a different amount of damage to shield than to armor. The proposal means a blanket x% decrease of damage to the heavy across the board. It doesn't fit in lore-wise, and it would wreck the balance of the game. It would mean a return of the game to the era when heavies with ARs dominated the game.
So what you're saying is, Assault + AR is suppose to dominate in every aspect of the game. I don't think you realize how weak heavies are in the situation they're meant to be great at, CQC. A proto assault can down a proto heavy without a sweat in CQC situations.
If AR heavies dominated the game, maybe it's the AR's that people should be looking at |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:shellhead wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout. You mean the weakest class in the game with almost no armor and very small shields can't take out a class thats meant to be a walking anti-infantry suit? Damn, heavies sure are OP. Just saying all you guys whine how you die so fast in a gun fight. You have noooo idea what those words even mean.
I play as both Scout and Heavy and I feel like the scout plays roll so much better then the heavy. When I play as Scout I die quickly in pretty much any fight where I don't get the first shot in. Thats how it should be, thats why the scout has a small profile and high speed. However, when I play heavy unless I'm fighting someone decked out fully in Militia gear I have to somehow find a way to get the drop on them otherwise I'm going down. the Heavy currently isn't strong enough to play its roll as a slow moving death machine from mid to close quarters. As a heavy I shouldn't have to play cautiously as a scout in order to get kills. |
Medic 1879
The Tritan Industries
87
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Doesn't the uprising thing mention that dropsuit levels will give bonus's as well as unlocking the next tier so maybe they are implementing something like this. And if heavy's had added damage resistance the could become abusable if a logi +triage tool follows them, if the dam res is too high the repair tool might keep them at full armour or atleast make armour drop extremely slowly which would lead to complaints but then again what wont? |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
301
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Numbers: Heavy vk.0 has 650 armor and 100 shield. That gives it a total of 750 hp. I'm not going to go into EHP here, since ARs do more damage to shield than armor, etc.
A damage reduction of 35%.. Actually, let's do 20%. That would give a proto heavy a BASE hp of 900. Let's add armor plates on top of that. Complex armor plates, let's fit two of those. 115hp each, which gives 230hp. Take 20% damage reduction, that comes to a total of 276hp added on TOP of the 900, giving a total hp of 1176hp.
A Duvolle can dish out 47.45 damage per shot with AR Prof V, weap V and a complex damage mod. That would cause resultant heavy to die in just under 2 seconds, not including inherent damage effectiveness against shield/armor. It would be higher, as ARs do 90% to armor.
A heavy with a single complex damage mod would do, with a Boundless HMG, would kill (assuming the assault had about 700hp, complete overestimation) the assault in 0.86 seconds, not including the damage effectiveness. Assuming all bullets hit. Even if just 50% hit, you still kill a proto AR user in less time that it takes for him to kill you. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
68
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
shellhead wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:shellhead wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:well the buffs do sounds promising since at the moment going for proto heavy is pointless and they die too fast for a proto suit Play Scout than tell me Heavies die fast for a scout. You mean the weakest class in the game with almost no armor and very small shields can't take out a class thats meant to be a walking anti-infantry suit? Damn, heavies sure are OP. Just saying all you guys whine how you die so fast in a gun fight. You have noooo idea what those words even mean. I play as both Scout and Heavy and I feel like the scout plays roll so much better then the heavy. When I play as Scout I die quickly in pretty much any fight where I don't get the first shot in. Thats how it should be, thats why the scout has a small profile and high speed. However, the Heavy currently isn't strong enough to play its roll as a slow moving death machine from mid to close quarters. As a heavy I shouldn't have to play cautiously as a scout in order to get kills.
I honestly think the system is like most MMOs Rock paper Scissor kinda game play. Assaults lose to Logi, Heavies lose to Assault, Logi loses to Scout, Scout loses to Heavy. That's the way I feel about it. Although all roles can overcome each other. |
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shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Medic 1879 wrote:Doesn't the uprising thing mention that dropsuit levels will give bonus's as well as unlocking the next tier so maybe they are implementing something like this. And if heavy's had added damage resistance the could become abusable if a logi +triage tool follows them, if the dam res is too high the repair tool might keep them at full armour or atleast make armour drop extremely slowly which would lead to complaints but then again what wont?
Heres a little tip from TF2; Shoot the medic first. |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:
I honestly think the system is like most MMOs Rock paper Scissor kinda game play. Assaults lose to Logi, Heavies lose to Assault, Logi loses to Scout, Scout loses to Heavy. That's the way I feel about it. Although all roles can overcome each other.
But that isn't how it should be. Each roll should be dynamic and able to beat every other roll if the player is using that roll well. A heavy should be able to kill everything as long as its well supported and well covered, an assault roll should be able to kill anything by working together/smart use of equipment/ surprise, A scout should be able to kill anything by using speed and stealth, and a logi should be able to kill anything through teamwork/smart equipment usage. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
68
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
shellhead wrote:Quote:
I honestly think the system is like most MMOs Rock paper Scissor kinda game play. Assaults lose to Logi, Heavies lose to Assault, Logi loses to Scout, Scout loses to Heavy. That's the way I feel about it. Although all roles can overcome each other.
But that isn't how it should be. Each roll should be able to beat every other roll if the player is using that roll well. A heavy should be able to kill everything as long as its well supported and well covered, an assault roll should be able to kill anything by working together/smart use of equipment/ surprise, A scout should be able to kill anything by using speed and stealth, and a logi should be able to kill anything through teamwork/smart equipment usage.
Everything can kill everything. I seen Heavies kill Assaults all the time. |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:shellhead wrote:Quote:
I honestly think the system is like most MMOs Rock paper Scissor kinda game play. Assaults lose to Logi, Heavies lose to Assault, Logi loses to Scout, Scout loses to Heavy. That's the way I feel about it. Although all roles can overcome each other.
But that isn't how it should be. Each roll should be able to beat every other roll if the player is using that roll well. A heavy should be able to kill everything as long as its well supported and well covered, an assault roll should be able to kill anything by working together/smart use of equipment/ surprise, A scout should be able to kill anything by using speed and stealth, and a logi should be able to kill anything through teamwork/smart equipment usage. Everything can kill everything. I seen Heavies kill Assaults all the time.
I know that but the game shouldn't become any more of an RPS system than it already is. |
Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention
136
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Numbers: Heavy vk.0 has 650 armor and 100 shield. That gives it a total of 750 hp. I'm not going to go into EHP here, since ARs do more damage to shield than armor, etc.
A damage reduction of 35%.. Actually, let's do 20%. That would give a proto heavy a BASE hp of 900. Let's add armor plates on top of that. Complex armor plates, let's fit two of those. 115hp each, which gives 230hp. Take 20% damage reduction, that comes to a total of 276hp added on TOP of the 900, giving a total hp of 1176hp.
A Duvolle can dish out 47.45 damage per shot with AR Prof V, weap V and a complex damage mod. That would cause resultant heavy to die in just under 2 seconds, not including inherent damage effectiveness against shield/armor. It would be higher, as ARs do 90% to armor.
A heavy with a single complex damage mod would do, with a Boundless HMG, would kill (assuming the assault had about 700hp, complete overestimation) the assault in 0.86 seconds, not including the damage effectiveness. Assuming all bullets hit. Even if just 50% hit, you still kill a proto AR user in less time that it takes for him to kill you.
Your right, A heavy having the advantage one vs one is totally unfair |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
301
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Let's put it in perspective. I've seen assaults go 0/7. I've seen snipers go 1/4. I've seen logis go 0/5 (to be expected, but their WP was low, too), and I've seen heavies go 3/8. I've also seen assaults go 30/1, snipers go 30/0, logis go 10/2 (and loads of WP), and heavies go 20/2.
I've run into a heavy, as an AR user, and they've gunned me down in seconds, from medium range. As a heavy, I've walked around a corner into two assaults and killed them both before they could get me into half armor.
Heavies may need a buff, but damage reduction isn't the way to go. The best way to buff a heavy is to *learn how to play with one*. Walking head-first into enemy fire generally isn't the best idea. You're not a walking fortress, you're a mobile machine gun nest/anti-tank cannon. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
68
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Laheon wrote:Numbers: Heavy vk.0 has 650 armor and 100 shield. That gives it a total of 750 hp. I'm not going to go into EHP here, since ARs do more damage to shield than armor, etc.
A damage reduction of 35%.. Actually, let's do 20%. That would give a proto heavy a BASE hp of 900. Let's add armor plates on top of that. Complex armor plates, let's fit two of those. 115hp each, which gives 230hp. Take 20% damage reduction, that comes to a total of 276hp added on TOP of the 900, giving a total hp of 1176hp.
A Duvolle can dish out 47.45 damage per shot with AR Prof V, weap V and a complex damage mod. That would cause resultant heavy to die in just under 2 seconds, not including inherent damage effectiveness against shield/armor. It would be higher, as ARs do 90% to armor.
A heavy with a single complex damage mod would do, with a Boundless HMG, would kill (assuming the assault had about 700hp, complete overestimation) the assault in 0.86 seconds, not including the damage effectiveness. Assuming all bullets hit. Even if just 50% hit, you still kill a proto AR user in less time that it takes for him to kill you. Your right, A heavy having the advantage one vs one is totally unfair
Ok so in your whacky world teams should need a squad to battle a heavy? Get real. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
301
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Your right, A heavy having the advantage one vs one is totally unfair
Even without the damage reduction, you still kill the assault in less time than he takes to kill you. 2 / 1.35 = 1.48 seconds. You still kill the assault 1.7 times faster than he takes to kill you. |
shellhead
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Coleman Gray wrote:Your right, A heavy having the advantage one vs one is totally unfair Even without the damage reduction, you still kill the assault in less time than he takes to kill you. 2 / 1.35 = 1.48 seconds. You still kill the assault 1.7 times faster than he takes to kill you.
Isn't that how it should be considering the Heavies only job is killing things? I think the numbers are also a little skewed since in order for it to be true both parties have to have perfect aim and start firing at the same time. The assault suit can aim and move much faster then the heavy making the heavies raw time advantage fair. |
Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention
136
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Coleman Gray wrote:Laheon wrote:Numbers: Heavy vk.0 has 650 armor and 100 shield. That gives it a total of 750 hp. I'm not going to go into EHP here, since ARs do more damage to shield than armor, etc.
A damage reduction of 35%.. Actually, let's do 20%. That would give a proto heavy a BASE hp of 900. Let's add armor plates on top of that. Complex armor plates, let's fit two of those. 115hp each, which gives 230hp. Take 20% damage reduction, that comes to a total of 276hp added on TOP of the 900, giving a total hp of 1176hp.
A Duvolle can dish out 47.45 damage per shot with AR Prof V, weap V and a complex damage mod. That would cause resultant heavy to die in just under 2 seconds, not including inherent damage effectiveness against shield/armor. It would be higher, as ARs do 90% to armor.
A heavy with a single complex damage mod would do, with a Boundless HMG, would kill (assuming the assault had about 700hp, complete overestimation) the assault in 0.86 seconds, not including the damage effectiveness. Assuming all bullets hit. Even if just 50% hit, you still kill a proto AR user in less time that it takes for him to kill you. Your right, A heavy having the advantage one vs one is totally unfair Ok so in your whacky world teams should need a squad to battle a heavy? Get real.
If their only using projectile weapons yes, explosive damage and lasers would stil chew through them |
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