DUST Search - Camping CRUs: Cheap or Smart?

Nemo Bluntz wrote:

Telling someone to HTFU to what is a pretty obvious exploit/failed piece of game design is so mind blowingly stupid.

Yes, the game is unforgiving. A good example: you can lose 1.6 million isk in a single round if you call a tank in and it gets popped by a turret no one is even manning. Yadda, yadda, it's tough fact you have to live with, and it's supposed to be. But dying as you spawn because the other team wants to sit around and pad their kills instead of play the game as intended is bull. And yes, you're intended to take those points, that's why you get 50-100 points+(depending on squad commands) to take them. It's an incentive that's implemented to nudge you into doing it.

If you were truly intended to spawn camp, the other team's main spawn wouldn't be out of bounds. You could just walk in and mow them down since you have all the other possible spawn points and the round would end quickly. It's not that way because that's not fun. It shouldn't be fun for the people doing it, and it certainly isn't fun for the people it's happening to. As game designers, they realized this probably as early on as possible and addressed it.

To say that the current system in place is 100% perfect and could use no possible changes to improve it is short-sighted. Was it better or worse before the last spawn point update? Oh, it was worse everyone keeps saying? So it was worse, and now it's the gold standard of FPS spawning? I'm certain that's the case.

And for anyone saying "leave the game then. You won't be missed." Haha, I'm sure the designers of the game, who want people to play it and eventually spend money on it, don't necessarily agree with your elitist **** there.

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Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2021	Posted - 2013.03.17 19:32:00 - [61] - Quote Cheap and I don't like it being part of the game. It takes no skill to kill someone spawning in. There is no challenge. No risk. Thread I posted about it; https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64169&find=unread
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 44	Posted - 2013.03.17 20:13:00 - [62] - Quote I'm on the side of learn not to spawn their. i've spawned into tanks, orbitals, snipers, my own team hitting me with an lav, and just about every other possible way you can conceive dieing in this game, and at the end of the day my usual response is "well not spawning their anymore", and move on. spawn choices are part of the game.
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.03.17 21:05:00 - [63] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Cheap and I don't like it being part of the game. It takes no skill to kill someone spawning in. There is no challenge. No risk. Thread I posted about it; https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64169&find=unread If I am squad leader I always tell my squad to work on capping all but 1 objective then we will setup a blockade so that we can prevent anyone from getting out. If CCP thought this was an illegitimate tactic they would do something to change it. They haven't so we will continue to do so.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2021	Posted - 2013.03.17 22:08:00 - [64] - Quote @Gunnut I agree, but the same could be said for AFK SP farming. I think we need to explain our actions and reasoning as you have. I would simply state if you like the way it is or if you could think of something better also.
Thog A Kuma Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 39	Posted - 2013.03.17 22:19:00 - [65] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: @Gunnut I agree, but the same could be said for AFK SP farming. I think we need to explain our actions and reasoning as you have. I would simply state if you like the way it is or if you could think of something better also. CCP has said they intend to "address" AFK farming (while killing friendly grenade self cooking) so you have to pick another one :-)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2021	Posted - 2013.03.17 22:33:00 - [66] - Quote They said they are "looking at" spawning. So shhh :P
Nemo Bluntz Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:19:00 - [67] - Quote It's cheap and there should be some in game counter measure to it. The intention of a spawn point isn't "free kills" the intention of a spawn point is to have a place to spawn in. There's a reason there's a point incentive for capturing it. I know it's generally considered scrubbish to point out an exploit in a game (especially coming from Fighting communities), but in FPS it's far different in the scenarios that you find yourself in. Many of you are also assuming that just because someone is spawning on a camped CRU that it's their 3rd or 5th or 10th time doing it "cuz dey r scrubnoobs". I've been spawn killed at CRUs and beacons before having any idea that it's being camped. It's an excuse for a flawed, or unfinished bit of the game's design to say "well, they released it this way so it must be perfect. everyone on the team is a game developing genius and no possible exploits got through the cracks." Otherwise a common thing I would read certainly wouldn't be "well, it used to be much worse, now it's not as bad." I think an easy counter that could be implemented would be to simply have a range around a CRU that shows you if there are enemies hanging out close to it. Or the other more obvious things like spawn invincibility, or having it if you die in the first few seconds of a spawn, you don't lose that suit. Especially that last way, it does give guys like me, who often spawn at camped points unknowingly, a mulligan against such weak ass "tactics."
King Kobrah SyNergy Gaming 65	Posted - 2013.03.18 02:25:00 - [68] - Quote PROTIP: if you see a bunch of tiny little men on your spawn map around your CRU that aren't blue dots, you probably shouldn't spawn there!
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.03.18 08:04:00 - [69] - Quote If you get spawncamped its your fault for spawning in the same place as reds are at. Sorry you just need to HTFU or go back to BF3 where they hold your hand cuz that's obviously more for you.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 522	Posted - 2013.03.18 08:36:00 - [70] - Quote Gunnut88 wrote: If you get spawncamped its your fault for spawning in the same place as reds are at. Sorry you just need to HTFU or go back to BF3 where they hold your hand cuz that's obviously more for you. Yeah, sometimes I'm in my tank and just keep shooting and shooting and shooting, overheating my gun from how many people just keep spawning right in front of me.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2052	Posted - 2013.03.18 09:18:00 - [71] - Quote EXCEPT when the Ambush spawn system keeps throwing you into the same meat-grinder you're trying to avoid, spawn-camping is totally legitimate. There are 2 problems: 1. Ambush spwaning needs a significant rebalance. 2. People don't read on-screen notifications that tell them pressing square will let them choose a random spawn instead of the default.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2021	Posted - 2013.03.18 10:06:00 - [72] - Quote Gunnut88 wrote: If you get spawncamped its your fault for spawning in the same place as reds are at. Sorry you just need to HTFU or go back to BF3 where they hold your hand cuz that's obviously more for you. Right you are. I should just spawn in the red and snipe for the rest of the game. Secondly what if it's a sniper or a tank camping it from 200+m? Still my fault for spawning on the battlefield lol? Is EvE uni all **** spawn campers or just you? I ask because you seem to want a mechanic which provides skill free kills. Not cool, not good. You feel this is the best possible spawn system? As for digging at bf3? When Dust has friendly fire, maybe you'll be able to say something about hand holding. But I say you are having your hand held with such an easy system to spawn camp. Free kills = hand held.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 522	Posted - 2013.03.18 10:16:00 - [73] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Right you are. I should just spawn in the red and snipe for the rest of the game. Secondly what if it's a sniper or a tank camping it from 200+m? Still my fault for spawning on the battlefield lol? Is EvE uni all **** spawn campers or just you? I ask because you seem to want a mechanic which provides skill free kills. Not cool, not good. You feel this is the best possible spawn system? As for digging at bf3? When Dust has friendly fire, maybe you'll be able to say something about hand holding. But I say you are having your hand held with such an easy system to spawn camp. Free kills = hand held. You sound very very angry. Did you by chance lose some expensive suits to some spawn campers? And could you please let us know when you play, cause the tears taste delicious.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2021	Posted - 2013.03.18 11:26:00 - [74] - Quote Leave this discussion to those who aren't fatsuit redline scrub snipers ratscrub. You're still ** after a year. Go play some ** space game where time played > skill.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 525	Posted - 2013.03.18 13:15:00 - [75] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Leave this discussion to those who aren't fatsuit redline scrub snipers ratscrub. You're still ** after a year. Go play some ** space game where time played > skill. They're going to fix the MCC SP thing shortly, so I need to exploit it while I can so not going to leave.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 14	Posted - 2013.03.18 14:14:00 - [76] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Smart, idiots gonna be idiots
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries 15	Posted - 2013.03.18 14:30:00 - [77] - Quote Smart.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 32	Posted - 2013.03.18 16:54:00 - [78] - Quote What do you considered camping? When I take an objective I never ever try to cap it until I have substantial backup. I will kill the defenders, then camp the objective/cru or whatever killing any respawns until reinforcements arrive to watch my back while I cap it. No reason to risk a spawn on me. On the flip side, ill sometimes drop a uplink hidden near a base we already own incase it gets taken, I can spawn in safely without being spawn killed. But you can also sort of see if there is anyone circling the spawn before you actually spawn in from the map. If your talking about leaving a spawn open and just sitting there killing folks who come in. I guess that's cheap? But all your doing is giving a third front to defend instead of just the MCC and the redline spawn. I guess it could trick a couple guys into throwing a clone away and padding your stats. But the risk is that they actuallu gain a foothold there. Basically, it strategically has no advantage to the team, and can be used to pad stats, so in that regard its cheap, not smart. You're risking a redline lockdown victory for some cheap/easy kills.
Ademis Kalel WarRavens 4	Posted - 2013.03.18 17:51:00 - [79] - Quote Its all a matter of opinion whether its part of the game or not. can you spawn kill for 20 minutes sure, its a matter of ethics. if your sitting there padding your stats knowing they dont even see you before your barrage rains down then just take the damn thing. other wise jsut take out the K/D stat it was usless in MAG and it appears to be usless in this game.
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.03.18 18:36:00 - [80] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Gunnut88 wrote: If you get spawncamped its your fault for spawning in the same place as reds are at. Sorry you just need to HTFU or go back to BF3 where they hold your hand cuz that's obviously more for you. Right you are. I should just spawn in the red and snipe for the rest of the game. Secondly what if it's a sniper or a tank camping it from 200+m? Still my fault for spawning on the battlefield lol? Is EvE uni all ** spawn campers or just you? I ask because you seem to want a mechanic which provides skill free kills. Not cool, not good. You feel this is the best possible spawn system? As for digging at bf3? When Dust has friendly fire, maybe you'll be able to say something about hand holding. But I say you are having your hand held with such an easy system to spawn camp. Free kills = hand held. It is only free kills when people are to stupid to realize "hey wait I shouldn't spawn there". Is it handholding, no I dont think so but definitely a problem with stupid ***** people

Tex Mex Aztec Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2013.03.18 18:37:00 - [81] - Quote Smart
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2023	Posted - 2013.03.18 18:42:00 - [82] - Quote K/D stat isn't the problem. It's the fact that containing 1 objective > taking all objectives. That is the problem. Btw people grow a pair please and say if you WANT spawn killing. If so we might as well go back to the Replication build spawn points. Trollolol, they were SO bad lol. I still remember people saying it was "a legit tactic" right up until Xjumpman got to a KDR of 25 or so by camping people's spawn. Everyone cried then. Next was E3. Park vehicle ontop of tower, rain missiles and rail shots into the enemy spawn. 100+ for 0 deaths was common enough. Remember CCP are hoping you'll spend AUR as often as possible. I can't see someone spending 500 AUR making a super cool suit, then being spawn killed and spawning in it again. People will accept spawn killing, and then use cheap gear, just like when someone caps all letters in a game of skirmish. Lack of incentive.
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.03.18 20:53:00 - [83] - Quote I could really care less if they change, but right now it is part of the game so my squads will continue to use it as a legit tactic. If it is changed I will adapt my tactics accordingly. Most of the tactics I use in game stem from my time in the military, spawncamping is merely a well laid out ambush. If they choose to make it so you can no longer camp crus then I will look for spots close to the CRUs where I can have my squad set up an ambush on anyone attempting to leave a CRU. Edit: If you don't like it HTFU or leave I guarantee you will not be missed.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 426	Posted - 2013.03.18 22:04:00 - [84] - Quote both... personally my e-honor doesn't let me just blatently camp CRUs. that being said, if i'm alone and have reason to believe enemies will be spawning there soon (like because i just killed one there) i won't expose myself by hacking it. i'll wait for a teammate to move up and cover my ass, or i'll cover his while he hacks. i guess you could consider that "camping" the CRU?
Nemo Bluntz Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.03.18 22:14:00 - [85] - Quote Telling someone to HTFU to what is a pretty obvious exploit/failed piece of game design is so mind blowingly stupid. Yes, the game is unforgiving. A good example: you can lose 1.6 million isk in a single round if you call a tank in and it gets popped by a turret no one is even manning. Yadda, yadda, it's tough fact you have to live with, and it's supposed to be. But dying as you spawn because the other team wants to sit around and pad their kills instead of play the game as intended is bull. And yes, you're intended to take those points, that's why you get 50-100 points+(depending on squad commands) to take them. It's an incentive that's implemented to nudge you into doing it. If you were truly intended to spawn camp, the other team's main spawn wouldn't be out of bounds. You could just walk in and mow them down since you have all the other possible spawn points and the round would end quickly. It's not that way because that's not fun. It shouldn't be fun for the people doing it, and it certainly isn't fun for the people it's happening to. As game designers, they realized this probably as early on as possible and addressed it. To say that the current system in place is 100% perfect and could use no possible changes to improve it is short-sighted. Was it better or worse before the last spawn point update? Oh, it was worse everyone keeps saying? So it was worse, and now it's the gold standard of FPS spawning? I'm certain that's the case. And for anyone saying "leave the game then. You won't be missed." Haha, I'm sure the designers of the game, who want people to play it and eventually spend money on it, don't necessarily agree with your elitist **** there.
Gunnut88 DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2013.03.19 03:38:00 - [86] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Telling someone to HTFU to what is a pretty obvious exploit/failed piece of game design is so mind blowingly stupid. Yes, the game is unforgiving. A good example: you can lose 1.6 million isk in a single round if you call a tank in and it gets popped by a turret no one is even manning. Yadda, yadda, it's tough fact you have to live with, and it's supposed to be. But dying as you spawn because the other team wants to sit around and pad their kills instead of play the game as intended is bull. And yes, you're intended to take those points, that's why you get 50-100 points+(depending on squad commands) to take them. It's an incentive that's implemented to nudge you into doing it. If you were truly intended to spawn camp, the other team's main spawn wouldn't be out of bounds. You could just walk in and mow them down since you have all the other possible spawn points and the round would end quickly. It's not that way because that's not fun. It shouldn't be fun for the people doing it, and it certainly isn't fun for the people it's happening to. As game designers, they realized this probably as early on as possible and addressed it. To say that the current system in place is 100% perfect and could use no possible changes to improve it is short-sighted. Was it better or worse before the last spawn point update? Oh, it was worse everyone keeps saying? So it was worse, and now it's the gold standard of FPS spawning? I'm certain that's the case. And for anyone saying "leave the game then. You won't be missed." Haha, I'm sure the designers of the game, who want people to play it and eventually spend money on it, don't necessarily agree with your elitist **** there. I'm sure that you have noticed that you and those that agree with you are in the minority. If it is changed then strategies will adapt to the changes but so far it has not even been hinted at that they plan to change it so yes HTFU. You will not be missed because the majority are just fine with the way it is.
Nemo Bluntz Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.03.19 04:08:00 - [87] - Quote Gunnut88 wrote: I'm sure that you have noticed that you and those that agree with you are in the minority. If it is changed then strategies will adapt to the changes but so far it has not even been hinted at that they plan to change it so yes HTFU. You will not be missed because the majority are just fine with the way it is. I'm in the minority of the comparative few voices of everyone playing who are actually contributing to this particular forum about it. There's a consistent strawman argument set up to the camping nay-sayers. "Why keep spawning there, you idiot scrub?" Or "you see red dots there and you're still spawning?! htfu noob." Those kinds of responses fail to address so many different things. Like the problem of you spawning at the CRU in ambush regardless of hitting square / R. Or spawning in to an unknowingly camped CRU and losing a (potentially expensive) suit and having to sit there for an additional, frustrating 10 seconds. But even beyond that suit losing crap. QQ over your suit, scrub, whatever. Games are meant to be, at their very core, fun. Spawn killing noobs who have no idea what's going on, while saying "harden the ** up!!!!!" is no way to hold a large amount of players. People can and will get frustrated early on with a game like this, on top of every other reason they have to be that isn't in-game player created, and will bail. Not to say it should be Battlefield 3.5, or Call of Dusty or whatever. But if you can sit there straight faced and say that this game has a 100% flawless spawn system that could be in no way improved. That CCP has done it. That they've seen the mountain top, and the mountain top is a delay when you spawn in, with a black screen, an inability to move your character, and a solid amount of time to die before even taking a step forward with nothing but consequence for you, regardless of what your map said when you clicked to jump in. That all of this is the best spawn system a first person shooter can ever have, and they should look no further to make it just a little better, a little more balanced, for the sake of the player. If you can say that the older system wasn't** worse, but only just a different, but equally good system. Then yes, I can see what your stance on it is pretty clearly. Otherwise, by default, you have to admit that it can be improved in some way. Not that there has to be a solid agreement on what that way is, but that there is room there to make a better system and overall better game.
XiBangBang Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 04:26:00 - [88] - Quote Gunnut88 wrote: Im a lil tw@t Why yes, yes u are. Maybe it's your parents fault, or maybe the kids at school who pick on you. Either way qft
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2024	Posted - 2013.03.19 09:52:00 - [89] - Quote +1 XiBangbang @Gunnut We're in the minority thinking Spawn camping is a ** mechanic for CCP to actually build into their game? Have you played since replication? I think you just don't want to have to work for your ISK. My whole point is that while everyone currently spawn camps, it's rubbish and boring, takes no skill to shoot a stationary target on a black screen. But we all do it because it's currently the best way to win. Don't you see all the people here saying "I think it's BS but I still do it because I ain't going to hack it"? Perhaps read the thread again. Quite clear people think it's **, but have no choice currently.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2060	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:19:00 - [90] - Quote If you're alone at a CRU, camping it until someone turns up to cover you is smart. If you find an enemy Uplink, camping it is risky because if 2 or 3 people sync their spawn, you might get slaughtered, and sometimes a Heavy can spawn and survive long enough to kill you in the right situation. If you suck bad enough, camping a spawn can get you killed because you can't get rid of the spawning enemy before they return fire and kill you first. The only problem, like I keep saying, is in Ambush, where the problem ISN'T spawn camping, it's the spawn mechanics occasionally throwing you in at the CRU/right next to the Uplink because that's where your whole team is even though everyone's dying there.



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