DUST Search - A Curious Business Strategy.

Severus Smith wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

You are trying so hard but unfortunately you are wrong. The PS4 is an x86_64 architecture. That means Trinity2 would work natively with no change in code. Furthermore, UE3 is dead simple to port stuff into. Now granted, there is a HUGE amount of work going into working with the CELL architecture and network code, but at the end of the day, that doesn't explain the lack of content, since engine optimization and netcode are independent teams.

If the game was sitting on a hard drive somewhere then my opinion drops even further. They missed their deadline, they missed the joint marketing campaign, and they showed an exceptionally poor build off to the PS+ members. If the game is significantly more complete then we have seen, they are shooting themselves in the foot epicly. DUST has lost it's core vision and is very much in danger of never being successful.

Yeah... realized this after submitting my post. Was looking for PS3 to PS4 incompatibility reasons and realized its due to PS3 being CELL and PS4 being x86_64. They could have an internal CARBON build that's waiting on the PS4 release and are using UE3 in the interim. I don't know.

Either way, I just find it very odd that they suddenly switched from CARBON to UE3. Even being dead simple to port to the licensing on UE3 alone is immense. UE2 is ~ $750,000 and cost estimates for UE3 are pretty hard to come by. Why would they suddenly switch? Why license an engine when you have one in house? Perhaps Sony's developer estimate for PS4 release was pushed back a year from 2012 to 2013? Maybe CCP banked everything on XBOX 360 support for x86_64 and was screwed when Microsoft didn't play nicely and had to turn to Sony?

Something just doesn't add up. You don't just swap engines right before release unless something catastrophic happened. And since everything is NDA we can only guess at what caused the switch. There are only two players, CCP and Sony, one of them is to blame. And I have more faith in CCP than Sony.

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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3040	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:16:00 - [61] - Quote MASS DR1V3R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Would like to note that I don't see any dust 514 advertisments on any website on a computer that had its cookies scrubbed and one I havent been to a dust 514 website before. Not sure what advertising algorithms google uses to advert dust or eve but once I do they become overwhelming majority of the side ads. Sooo this. Blame Google, not CCP. /thread Well I just tried it just now, the libary computers are thin clients and dont store cookies, googled the new wizard of oz movie, and no matter what site it was, the web ads where there.
Don Von Hulio UnReaL. 118	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:23:00 - [62] - Quote Firefox, and adblock+ Ads dont even show before online videos hahahahahaha
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3040	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:39:00 - [63] - Quote Don Von Hulio wrote: Firefox, and adblock+ Ads dont even show before online videos hahahahahaha I only pop up block, i leave the website ones alone.
Severus Smith ZionTCD Legacy Rising 179	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:50:00 - [64] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: You are trying so hard but unfortunately you are wrong. The PS4 is an x86_64 architecture. That means Trinity2 would work natively with no change in code. Furthermore, UE3 is dead simple to port stuff into. Now granted, there is a HUGE amount of work going into working with the CELL architecture and network code, but at the end of the day, that doesn't explain the lack of content, since engine optimization and netcode are independent teams. If the game was sitting on a hard drive somewhere then my opinion drops even further. They missed their deadline, they missed the joint marketing campaign, and they showed an exceptionally poor build off to the PS+ members. If the game is significantly more complete then we have seen, they are shooting themselves in the foot epicly. DUST has lost it's core vision and is very much in danger of never being successful. Yeah... realized this after submitting my post. Was looking for PS3 to PS4 incompatibility reasons and realized its due to PS3 being CELL and PS4 being x86_64. They could have an internal CARBON build that's waiting on the PS4 release and are using UE3 in the interim. I don't know. Either way, I just find it very odd that they suddenly switched from CARBON to UE3. Even being dead simple to port to the licensing on UE3 alone is immense. UE2 is ~ $750,000 and cost estimates for UE3 are pretty hard to come by. Why would they suddenly switch? Why license an engine when you have one in house? Perhaps Sony's developer estimate for PS4 release was pushed back a year from 2012 to 2013? Maybe CCP banked everything on XBOX 360 support for x86_64 and was screwed when Microsoft didn't play nicely and had to turn to Sony? Something just doesn't add up. You don't just swap engines right before release unless something catastrophic happened. And since everything is NDA we can only guess at what caused the switch. There are only two players, CCP and Sony, one of them is to blame. And I have more faith in CCP than Sony.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 671	Posted - 2013.03.08 23:08:00 - [65] - Quote Firestorm Zulu wrote: Aighun wrote: Whatever the strategy is it seems to be working. Most of the recent ramping up of promotions is targeted toward gamers and not the general public. It creates more interest in the game for people already interested in it. They probably aren't really going to advertise the game full out until it goes to full release and can be reviewed and given those numbers gaming sites hand out. So if there was nothing on the way, sure building interest would be premature. But building interest in the game just before a content update seems to make sense... Seems basskwards to me. If you are about to release new content, why would you sully the new impressions of the masses with this lack luster game we have currently? The same hype could have been had if they just waited 2 months to talk to the escapist,ign,etc. The Escapist is not the masses. Yes, it is some publicity and yes, It does seem strange to have them do a live stream with the current build which is about what, four months old now? But if I was the same more or less casual gamer that I was say 4 years ago, I still might not even know anything about Dust. I never bothered to read previews or hands on type of articles. I guess it will all depend on how much advertising they do when they are review ready.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 671	Posted - 2013.03.08 23:23:00 - [66] - Quote SoLJae wrote: Aighun wrote: They probably aren't really going to advertise the game full out until it goes to full release and can be reviewed and given those numbers gaming sites hand out. That's the thing that scares me the most. This notion or concept of a "full release" doesn't seem to be one that CCP feels comfortable with applying to their gaming properties. If you listen to all the hardcore EVE veterans, they will ALL tell you that even EVE online is NOT fully released, but rather it's still in beta. Will CCP apply this same development precedent to DUST 514, so that 3 or 4 years from now the game will still be considered as being in open beta, just like EVE? They surely don't feel comfortable with giving out proper dates like other companies do when releasing their own new games. When someone like Rockstar, Ubisoft or any of the other major publishers/developers releases a game they provide their customers and fans with an ACTUAL date for release. Why can't CCP do this? Why are they sooo special? It's almost as if they use the ambiguous "beta status" as a crutch or a shield to hide behind in order to deflect from criticism concerning missing and broken features. Yes. Both. Also neither. If you read the CSM minutes recently released that refer to DUST 514 you'll see that there was a lot of discussion about this sort of thing. It seems that someone went as far as to imply that DUST 514 might be vapor wareGÇª I think CCP realize that the console market will need something that looks a lot more like a "full release" to get started with than CCP may have been prepared to offer a year or so ago. So they could also be holding back because they realize that it will take some effort to get us all used to the ever evolving game kind of thing we see with EVE Online, and want to make a bigger splash for the initial review ready (let's say) version of the game.
Bald Crusader Two Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2013.03.08 23:32:00 - [67] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Nullarbor just told us this is the first weekend in a long time he's had off. So that should give somewhat of a hint to the pace of things and where they are now. Total burnout?
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2004	Posted - 2013.03.09 00:28:00 - [68] - Quote The biggest problem for me is that "content" means different things to different people. Some people want more skills/gear/vehicles. AUR variations and such are prime examples. I can understand CCP testing the waters. Regardless of that, I'll still run AR & Assault suit. For me, content means new game modes, not just a shuffle of the objectives. NEW maps. I just feel CCP isn't bringing us the true attraction of Dust, and are stuck balancing the FPS stuff. Corp battles are still just bragging rights (I know about the FW connection, but that's meta game stuff). I just hope we'll see more PROPER content soon.
Starshine Etherium Greywolf Syndicate 4	Posted - 2013.03.09 00:50:00 - [69] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: So, as with many things, SOONGäó. Pretty sure I hate the word soon. :( The only comment from a dev and he fails to answer to the crimes presented in this thread, instead opting to make jokes..... Id prefer a robotic, dry dev that gave us information rather than a cheeky one. At least we'd have some answers....
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3044	Posted - 2013.03.09 00:59:00 - [70] - Quote but I rather have cheeky devs. they have humor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXRFJ2ar_E

iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 307	Posted - 2013.03.09 01:37:00 - [71] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You are trying so hard but unfortunately you are wrong. The PS4 is an x86_64 architecture. That means Trinity2 would work natively with no change in code. Furthermore, UE3 is dead simple to port stuff into. Now granted, there is a HUGE amount of work going into working with the CELL architecture and network code, but at the end of the day, that doesn't explain the lack of content, since engine optimization and netcode are independent teams. If the game was sitting on a hard drive somewhere then my opinion drops even further. They missed their deadline, they missed the joint marketing campaign, and they showed an exceptionally poor build off to the PS+ members. If the game is significantly more complete then we have seen, they are shooting themselves in the foot epicly. DUST has lost it's core vision and is very much in danger of never being successful. Yeah... realized this after submitting my post. Was looking for PS3 to PS4 incompatibility reasons and realized its due to PS3 being CELL and PS4 being x86_64. They could have an internal CARBON build that's waiting on the PS4 release and are using UE3 in the interim. I don't know. Either way, I just find it very odd that they suddenly switched from CARBON to UE3. Even being dead simple to port to the licensing on UE3 alone is immense. UE2 is ~ $750,000 and cost estimates for UE3 are pretty hard to come by. Why would they suddenly switch? Why license an engine when you have one in house? Perhaps Sony's developer estimate for PS4 release was pushed back a year from 2012 to 2013? Maybe CCP banked everything on XBOX 360 support for x86_64 and was screwed when Microsoft didn't play nicely and had to turn to Sony? Something just doesn't add up. You don't just swap engines right before release unless something catastrophic happened. And since everything is NDA we can only guess at what caused the switch. There are only two players, CCP and Sony, one of them is to blame. And I have more faith in CCP than Sony. There is no big conspiracy. CARBON is only a virtual environment medium. CCPs network engine is called Jessica or something. UE3 is easier to run on PS3 because of the huge amount of external support, proven stabily on a console, and experience. CCP can draw on console talent to help make the game quickly rather than retrain people on thier in house middlewear. Also CARBON is designed for PC usage, it would probably melt a console (it almost melted SOA PCs when incarna was released) As for the dust client. All the intresting stuff is handled server side. The GUI and the platform its running on are irrelevant, they could literally make a client using the minecraft source code and it would still work. CCP clients are literally a console, not a gaming console, but a user interface for communicating with the server/network. I no nothing about computer science and this is obvious to me. The PS4 is not a "sky is falling" scenario. CCP is apparently commited to dust. Just enjoy it.
S Park Finner BetaMax. 95	Posted - 2013.03.09 02:08:00 - [72] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You are trying so hard but unfortunately you are wrong. The PS4 is an x86_64 architecture. That means Trinity2 would work natively with no change in code. Furthermore, UE3 is dead simple to port stuff into. Now granted, there is a HUGE amount of work going into working with the CELL architecture and network code, but at the end of the day, that doesn't explain the lack of content, since engine optimization and netcode are independent teams. If the game was sitting on a hard drive somewhere then my opinion drops even further. They missed their deadline, they missed the joint marketing campaign, and they showed an exceptionally poor build off to the PS+ members. If the game is significantly more complete then we have seen, they are shooting themselves in the foot epicly. DUST has lost it's core vision and is very much in danger of never being successful. Yeah... realized this after submitting my post. Was looking for PS3 to PS4 incompatibility reasons and realized its due to PS3 being CELL and PS4 being x86_64. They could have an internal CARBON build that's waiting on the PS4 release and are using UE3 in the interim. I don't know. Either way, I just find it very odd that they suddenly switched from CARBON to UE3. Even being dead simple to port to the licensing on UE3 alone is immense. UE2 is ~ $750,000 and cost estimates for UE3 are pretty hard to come by. Why would they suddenly switch? Why license an engine when you have one in house? Perhaps Sony's developer estimate for PS4 release was pushed back a year from 2012 to 2013? Maybe CCP banked everything on XBOX 360 support for x86_64 and was screwed when Microsoft didn't play nicely and had to turn to Sony? Something just doesn't add up. You don't just swap engines right before release unless something catastrophic happened. And since everything is NDA we can only guess at what caused the switch. There are only two players, CCP and Sony, one of them is to blame. And I have more faith in CCP than Sony. I think you may be on to something with the business issues. A plausible scenario is: CCP is in discussions with both Microsoft and Sony. They like Microsoft because of the strong relationship they have with Microsoft and because of the experience in development environments / tools / middleware CCP already has. The deal they are working with Microsoft falls through. Now they have only Sony, the second choice. They fall back to Unreal Engine 3. It's future proof, it will be developed for years to come and for all platforms. CCP will have to do the back end work for integration over but the the front end graphics are off loaded to a proven developer. Ports to something like PS4 will be eased to that extent. But the flip side is the content pipeline has to be re-done. Those same Carbon related tools that CCP have such an investment in may well not be compatible with UE3. To some extent that might explain the state of the graphics. As for the release time line, Sony could push CCP, driven by their PS4 schedule, and CCP, with no alternative for leverage, would have to step up. In IRC I've noted some folks at CCP questioning if Sony really understands what CCP is up to, indicating some frustration with them. Also, the "Open Beta" has been acknowledged to be as much an artifact of linking DUST 514 to EVE. Once they did that the beta was "Open" no mater what CCP wanted. So why is CCP pushing DUST 514 now? I would suggest a combination of economic motivations and playing the hand they've been dealt. CCP's CEO has voiced some frustration with getting funding for new ventures in Iceland. The upheaval in development outlined above has got to have been expensive. The open beta is a fait accompli. Since it opened up the possibility of some cash flow from DUST 514. Advertising the game could increase that as folks try it out. How's that for a long series of completely unsupported suppositions?
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 69	Posted - 2013.03.09 05:26:00 - [73] - Quote I believe it goes like this. 2005-2006 CCP decides to take EVE online and make it bigger and better by creating DUST514 (title to be decided) the basic idea is to have ground troops fighting along the space pilots. Because YAY more money!!! 2006-2007 Ok, cool we planned this thing las year its time to start doing something, but wait, HOW IN THE HELL are we going to make this two games for PC (because its what our customers use) work. Hey this is and idea lets star to build this game engine especially with the purpose of making the games able to connect. 2007-2008 So ok, we have EVE on CARBON, lets start to put the other game (Dust514) on carbon too.... 2009_fanfest_2010 Well, we got all of this EVE player nerding all over the place for this game now (DUST514) (title now anounced) but wait somebody in upper management thinks - Wait a minute, if they are playing DUST they can-¦t play EVE at the same time... crap we can-¦t make EVE not for PC now, but we can have DUST on consoles so we get a hole new player market without loosing any EVE monthly paying players... BRILLIANT! 2010-2011 Well crap we were ready to launch on 2011 but now we have to get on consoles, not much of a problem. Wait what, microsoft doesn-¦t want to support the interconnection between the two games. (or couldn-¦t you choose) hell no!!! that is what the game is all about, ok, nintendo is out of the cuestion sooo SONY!!!! 2011-2011 Well, kitten me sideways, what do you know CARBON doesn-¦t work on PS3... you asian dumbasses... Ok we need to MAKE this game work , we have invested to much time and money in it to leave now. So what options do we have. A) Go crying to your mama. B) Redo the game on something PS3 capable ( that piece of japanese crap) 2011-2012 Well look at this, this is what we got, this is what we have been able to do because we had to star over. And we are rushing EVERYTHING because we need to get this game out NOW!! 2012-2013 Adds... adds... more last minute development.... adds... adds 2013-SOONtm Hey the game is out, we have no idea what to do with the PS4, but hey you got your game, now give us money and time to keep developing... FYI: I love DUST514, SONY, PS3 and PS4. XD
Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 58	Posted - 2013.03.09 06:40:00 - [74] - Quote Firestorm Zulu wrote: Dalton Smithe wrote: Firestorm Zulu wrote: Skihids wrote: I get the same feeling. It's a beta, a real beta, but it's being marketed as if it were a released product. The discontinuity is palpable. Every time I see another general audience ad or a special sale I have to work harder to remind myself that this isn't a real game yet and it's ok to have all these broken and missing parts. And I've been here for nine months. The new guys don't have that experience as a counterweight. NEWS FLASH: ITS NOT A REAL BETA I have yet to see a single fix or improvement that other game betas were not capable of, the only difference here is CCP is slow to the punch and the beta is in 1+ year of 'development' And by development I mean, they ran out of cash and are now milking the hardcore fanbois for every cent they can get out of them b/c they can't get a releasable version in time. Just because the fixes aren't implemented right now, doesn't mean that they aren't working on it. NEWS FLASH: YOU ARE NOT A PROGRAMMER Shut up and let them do their job. When it gets closer to release, they will implement fixes and what not to make the game closer to what they planned. This isn't a real beta? WTF, haven't you read the top of the screen when you brought the game up, IT SAYS IT RIGHT THERE. Just because games like BF3 and CoD want to release their games and do fixes as they are played(with a "finished" product) Doesn't mean that is what CCP wants to focus on. Give them time...yes it has been a year in Beta..but good things come to those who wait.... you have got to be brand new here. You'll learn soon(tm) enough that what your promised won't ever come. Or if it does, it so long aways that by the time you do get you've since moved on. Oh the moxy of a new forum warriror. Good luck keeping that attitude up as CCP proves to dissapoint over and over and over and over.... Sorry to disappoint. I am not new here, I have been here, maybe not since the beginning, but I have been here long enough to see them work in many features since early September. Just because they don't work in everything you want, don't get all pissy about what they are doing. Also, saying I am new here when you still belong to a NPC corp, well that just makes me chuckle inwardly. I don't post unless I have something relevant to say, that is, a horse that hasn't been beaten to death. If your looking for instant gratification, go play BF3 or CoD, or whatever other game your fickle mind takes you too. CCP never does anything quickly for the simple fact that when you rush something you make mistakes.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 483	Posted - 2013.03.09 07:03:00 - [75] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: There is no big conspiracy. CARBON is only a virtual environment medium. CCPs network engine is called Jessica or something. UE3 is easier to run on PS3 because of the huge amount of external support, proven stabily on a console, and experience. CCP can draw on console talent to help make the game quickly rather than retrain people on thier in house middlewear. Also CARBON is designed for PC usage, it would probably melt a console (it almost melted SOA PCs when incarna was released) As for the dust client. All the intresting stuff is handled server side. The GUI and the platform its running on are irrelevant, they could literally make a client using the minecraft source code and it would still work. CCP clients are literally a console, not a gaming console, but a user interface for communicating with the server/network. I no nothing about computer science and this is obvious to me. The PS4 is not a "sky is falling" scenario. CCP is apparently commited to dust. Just enjoy it. WRONG CARBON is the whole framework, which includes the network, db, python, etc layers, and graphics engines. It is more than UE3, and parts of it is used in DUST like the python, network, etc.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3051	Posted - 2013.03.09 13:17:00 - [76] - Quote Carbon is a framework engine similar to frost byte 2 engine is. You attach other engines into them to make it all work together. Other engines Like enlighten, havok, emotion & unreal. The overall goal of carbon was that assests created by one game can be shared/used/utilized in another game. For example planets (graphics) in eve online are a direct result of planets in dust 514. If world of darkness creates an awesome hair/cloth flowing animation that could be ported over into eve online's avatars ect. ect. Or dust 514's avatars and environs.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 312	Posted - 2013.03.09 13:51:00 - [77] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: WRONG CARBON is the whole framework, which includes the network, db, python, etc layers, and graphics engines. It is more than UE3, and parts of it is used in DUST like the python, network, etc.[/quote] Yes but does it really nullify my point. CCP engineered a whole framework. There must be some crossover in dust otherwise it would work with UE3 or the PS3. People are wailing and gnashing there teeth in this thread about the PS4, does it really matter the eaxct specifics of the the framework used? The point is the sky isn't falling and there is probably a very good reason why they choose the UE3 engine for the PS3. My actual point (regardless of my erronious statements) still stands. The sky isn't falling, there is no big conspiracy.
Himiko Kuronaga Greatness Achieved Through Training 14	Posted - 2013.03.09 14:29:00 - [78] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You are trying so hard but unfortunately you are wrong. The PS4 is an x86_64 architecture. That means Trinity2 would work natively with no change in code. Furthermore, UE3 is dead simple to port stuff into. Now granted, there is a HUGE amount of work going into working with the CELL architecture and network code, but at the end of the day, that doesn't explain the lack of content, since engine optimization and netcode are independent teams. If the game was sitting on a hard drive somewhere then my opinion drops even further. They missed their deadline, they missed the joint marketing campaign, and they showed an exceptionally poor build off to the PS+ members. If the game is significantly more complete then we have seen, they are shooting themselves in the foot epicly. DUST has lost it's core vision and is very much in danger of never being successful. Yeah... realized this after submitting my post. Was looking for PS3 to PS4 incompatibility reasons and realized its due to PS3 being CELL and PS4 being x86_64. They could have an internal CARBON build that's waiting on the PS4 release and are using UE3 in the interim. I don't know. Either way, I just find it very odd that they suddenly switched from CARBON to UE3. Even being dead simple to port to the licensing on UE3 alone is immense. UE2 is ~ $750,000 and cost estimates for UE3 are pretty hard to come by. Why would they suddenly switch? Why license an engine when you have one in house? Perhaps Sony's developer estimate for PS4 release was pushed back a year from 2012 to 2013? Maybe CCP banked everything on XBOX 360 support for x86_64 and was screwed when Microsoft didn't play nicely and had to turn to Sony? Something just doesn't add up. You don't just swap engines right before release unless something catastrophic happened. And since everything is NDA we can only guess at what caused the switch. There are only two players, CCP and Sony, one of them is to blame. And I have more faith in CCP than Sony. The problem may be more simple than you think. You may recall that Carbon in Eve runs a lot of cards hot.... a little too hot, some would say. And that's with one small room and a single character standing in it. Do you know what else has a reputation for running a little too hot for comfort? Yes... your PS3. I don't think we're using UE3 because of some backwards compatibility issue. I think we're running UE3 so our houses don't burst into flames. Carbon just wasn't a very well built engine to begin with.
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 42	Posted - 2013.03.09 15:42:00 - [79] - Quote Just throwing this out but has anyone else noticed that the time between bulids have gotten longer in addition to little to nothing noticable. in the bulid after the E3 bulid with skirmsh 1.0 there was a month between the two and had enough to complety chqnge the feel of the game, but the Chromesome and Codex bulids have taken more then they have given and kept the same rotten feel. I hoped this same rotten feel would have passed but with all ive been played it seems that this is the way CCP wants the game to be. not mention that we still have had many broken features for months now hoping that they will be fixed in the next bulid (like the LAVs). When I played about six months ago It wasnt like the 2009 beta but in ways you saw and could believe that Dust was going to be better then that 09 bulid. Personally all i thought it needed was a stabilty fix, some fixs to the controls maybe, and some content and that could have been the game. However since skirmsh 1.0 was taken from us I feel that CCP has been trying to turn this deep and dynamic world into a COD wannabe. CCP has made some progress but only noticable thing i see is the stabilty. I Someetimes wonder why Ign and game informer and all of them gave Dust such a high rating as they do the people who played it a year ago wouldve thought that the E3 bulid was 10 times better then the one we now even with its massive stabilty problems. Were they playing the same bulid as us some fixed up privite verson just for the crics or were they bribed. I dont know but what i read about Dust isnt in the concieveable future for what i played. All in all CCP said this is the last bulid before launch so i really hope that by actual launch they would have a bunch of content and realivant fixs to complety change the game back to the right direction. I want Dust 514 to a truly deep game thats worthy of be one of the top console games. I wanna love Dust and i do but the dissapointments are killing my faith.


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