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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1861
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 10:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
I just realised why all the good Scouts are disappearing. We didn't go anywhere. We just reduced our Scan Profile. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 10:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
SMG has low range, low accuracy and lower dps than anything. you have to dump alot SP into it to make it decent and still anyone using it over AR should rethink it, AR offers more damage per clip, fires just as long before reload, reloads just as fast, offers more range, more dps and more flexilibility. SMG is also weaker against shields and type 2 assault (the most common suit on the field) has big shields. SMG is for people that cannot aim up close and want to spray because they lack skill
btw specialist shotgun is way better then the SMG, minimal fitting requirements and you can still kill stuff faster than with the SMG up to 15 meters due to the fall off mechanics. SMG is terrible outside 10 meters due to the accuracy. the shotgun on the other hand will two shot anything at that range before the SMG goes through the shields.
oh, not to mention that the breach SMG is the worst weapon ingame, 30% less dps than regular SMG, 50% less than an AR and it only gets a slight accuracy boost |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1862
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 11:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:SMG has low range, low accuracy and lower dps than anything. you have to dump alot SP into it to make it decent and still anyone using it over AR should rethink it, AR offers more damage per clip, fires just as long before reload, reloads just as fast, offers more range, more dps and more flexilibility. SMG is also weaker against shields and type 2 assault (the most common suit on the field) has big shields. SMG is for people that cannot aim up close and want to spray because they lack skill btw specialist shotgun is way better then the SMG, minimal fitting requirements and you can still kill stuff faster than with the SMG up to 15 meters due to the fall off mechanics. SMG is terrible outside 10 meters due to the accuracy. the shotgun on the other hand will two shot anything at that range before the SMG goes through the shields. oh, not to mention that the breach SMG is the worst weapon ingame, 30% less dps than regular SMG, 50% less than an AR and it only gets a slight accuracy boost Toxin vs. GEK or Duvolle in CQC range.
If I'm using the Toxin (SMG Ops level 2 or 3, depending on which character I'm running), and I'm not going Scout vs. Heavy, then the Toxin wins at least 80% of the time. If I'm using the GEK or Duvolle, then the Toxin wins at least 70% of the time. If I'm watching a fight between players with Toxins and GEKs or Duvolles, the Toxin will win more often.
At the longer ends of SMG range, using the sights on the gun can provide a MASSIVE accuracy improvement, and in my experience, that accuracy buff combined with good aim on the move can tip the balance in my favour pretty consistently. In mid-range for SMGs, it practically doubles the damage output when aiming for a single target.
EDIT: There's also the fact that - as I've tried to argue in the past - lower precision can be an advantage in CQC. When you're in close, it's impossible to always anticipate a good player's movements and correct your aim, but having a weapon with spread like the SMG has gives you a wider margin for error when trying to follow an erratic target. Misreading your opponent when using a high-spread SMG only reduces your damage instead of cutting you off completely, and can usually be recovered from faster than missing with an AR as well. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 12:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:stuff SMG "spray and pray" is closed beta mentality where scouts speed was insane and this mentality should remain in the past. lack of aiming skills is no argument as is your theorycraft. movement is slow now and keeping up aim is totally manageable. if you cant achieve atleast 30% hit rate with the AR up close then you are terrible by FPS standards. you also mentioned SMG sights, I hope you are joking... SMG sights slow down turn speed massively, even a heavy can outrun it. note that I have alot more SP invested in SMG than you and the AR is still superior with zero SP investment.
I suggest you to test this out by yourself: put points into shotgun and into primary weapon sharpshooter skill (but I guess you already have it anyway). take the specialist shotgun which has better fitting requirements than SMG (yeah the specialist shotgun, a primary weapon, is easier to fit than the SMG). go to a heavy suit that is 15m away from you. Now try to kill him. do the same with assault SMG and you will see how fast the heavy drops against the shotgun compared to the SMG. the shotgun has like 30 meters falloff, that means, it still deals incredible damage at 15 meter range despite having very low optimal. the SMGs accuracy and weakness against shields is a massive letdown in a game were most fights happen at around 20 meter range and the most common suit is the caldari assault type 2 with massive shields. there is not point to use a "close combat" weapon like the SMG when you can simply take the specialist shotgun with even better fitting requirements and there is no point taking the SMG over the AR as all purpose weapon anyway. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1862
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:if you cant achieve atleast 30% hit rate with the AR up close then you are terrible by FPS standards. Yes, but you achieve that accuracy by NOT continuously firing, meaning you're still losing out on your DPS even if you're not losing as much in your damage per reload. The SMG with 30% accuracy will still be dealing more damage, faster, and will get the kill first in most cases, even when it's cheap Scout vs. expensive Assault.
Quote:you also mentioned SMG sights, I hope you are joking... SMG sights slow down turn speed massively, even a heavy can outrun it. In CQC, yeah. At the kind of range where the accuracy improvement is useful, Scouts have to sprint to beat your turning speed. I wasn't talking about using SMG sights in CQC, because I'm not an idiot. Sorry to disappoint.
Quote:note that I have alot more SP invested in SMG than you and the AR is still superior with zero SP investment. And you know this how? I've told you the SP investment I have into SMGs in the two characters I use who DON'T specialise in that weapon (one is a Shotgunner, the other a tank driver). Just because I'm using examples where I haven't invested NEARLY as much SP as my opponents NEEDED to have used to get their weapon of choice, doesn't mean I haven't skilled into SMGs properly.
Quote:I suggest you to test this out by yourself: put points into shotgun and into primary weapon sharpshooter skill (but I guess you already have it anyway). take the specialist shotgun which has better fitting requirements than SMG (yeah the specialist shotgun, a primary weapon, is easier to fit than the SMG). go to a heavy suit that is 15m away from you. Now try to kill him. do the same with assault SMG and you will see how fast the heavy drops against the shotgun compared to the SMG. the shotgun has like 30 meters falloff, that means, it still deals incredible damage at 20 meter range despite having only 9 meter optimal. the SMGs accuracy and weakness against shields is a massive letdown in a game were most fights happen at around 20 meter range and the most common suit is the caldari assault type 2 with massive shields. there is not point to use a "close combat" weapon like the SMG when you can simply take the specialist shotgun with even better fitting requirements. The Specialist Shotgun is nice. And you're TOTALLY right about the 24 CPU it requires being less than the 15 CPU required by the equivalent SMG, or the 18 CPU required by the Assault variant. It's also SUCH a big surprise that a primary CQC weapon is better for CQC than a Sidearm with a similar range profile. And please, tell me, exactly which suit are you using that allows you to pair that Shotgun with a Sniper Rifle or a Swarm Launcher? |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
429
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:SMG has low range, low accuracy and lower dps than anything. you have to dump alot SP into it to make it decent and still anyone using it over AR should rethink it, AR offers more damage per clip, fires just as long before reload, reloads just as fast, offers more range, more dps and more flexilibility. SMG is also weaker against shields and type 2 assault (the most common suit on the field) has big shields. SMG is for people that cannot aim up close and want to spray because they lack skill btw specialist shotgun is way better then the SMG, minimal fitting requirements and you can still kill stuff faster than with the SMG up to 15 meters due to the fall off mechanics. SMG is terrible outside 10 meters due to the accuracy. the shotgun on the other hand will two shot anything at that range before the SMG goes through the shields. oh, not to mention that the breach SMG is the worst weapon ingame, 30% less dps than regular SMG, 50% less than an AR and it only gets a slight accuracy boost Toxin vs. GEK or Duvolle in CQC range. If I'm using the Toxin (SMG Ops level 2 or 3, depending on which character I'm running), and I'm not going Scout vs. Heavy, then the Toxin wins at least 80% of the time. If I'm using the GEK or Duvolle, then the Toxin wins at least 70% of the time. If I'm watching a fight between players with Toxins and GEKs or Duvolles, the Toxin will win more often. At the longer ends of SMG range, using the sights on the gun can provide a MASSIVE accuracy improvement, and in my experience, that accuracy buff combined with good aim on the move can tip the balance in my favour pretty consistently. In mid-range for SMGs, it practically doubles the damage output when aiming for a single target. EDIT: There's also the fact that - as I've tried to argue in the past - lower precision can be an advantage in CQC. When you're in close, it's impossible to always anticipate a good player's movements and correct your aim, but having a weapon with spread like the SMG has gives you a wider margin for error when trying to follow an erratic target. Misreading your opponent when using a high-spread SMG only reduces your damage instead of cutting you off completely, and can usually be recovered from faster than missing with an AR as well. I have to agree with this. My completely untanked uplink scout carries a toxin and knives, and is a surprisingly good killer with the smg, with very few skills invested - ops at lvl 2 and support skills at lvl 1.
Been thinking that when core skills are maxxed(grid, cpu, fitting, armor, sheild, mobility, scanning, damping, hacking) I'll be joining the ranks of the smg scouts.
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Gaechti
BetaMax.
77
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
KryptixX wrote: But group fire chews through scouts, and we are seeing more mob style play with the new spawn system.
/signed |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
252
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
This Dual smg scout does just fine
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=591937
Maaaabbbbbbeeeeyyyy certain builds are only good for certain situations and maps and game modes shocking I know..... |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Yes, but you achieve that accuracy by NOT continuously firing, meaning you're still losing out on your DPS even if you're not losing as much in your damage per reload. The SMG with 30% accuracy will still be dealing more damage, faster, and will get the kill first in most cases, even when it's cheap Scout vs. expensive Assault.
Why would I fire in bursts close combat? The AR can hip fire continuously just fine.
Garrett Blacknova wrote: in CQC, yeah. At the kind of range where the accuracy improvement is useful, Scouts have to sprint to beat your turning speed. I wasn't talking about using SMG sights in CQC, because I'm not an idiot. Sorry to disappoint.
At ~15 meters range, heavy outsprints SMG sights turn speed. Type 2 suits and scout can simply outrun it without sprinting.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The Specialist Shotgun is nice. And you're TOTALLY right about the 24 CPU it requires being less than the 15 CPU required by the equivalent SMG, or the 18 CPU required by the Assault variant. It's also SUCH a big surprise that a primary CQC weapon is better for CQC than a Sidearm with a similar range profile. And please, tell me, exactly which suit are you using that allows you to pair that Shotgun with a Sniper Rifle or a Swarm Launcher? When is CPU an issue for you? you can lower the CPU requirement by alot with skills for weapons and alot of other modules, you cant do the same with PG, my fittings are never tight on CPU. |
rpastry
Carbon 7
30
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gaechti wrote:KryptixX wrote: But group fire chews through scouts, and we are seeing more mob style play with the new spawn system.
/signed
group fire chews through anyone, at least with a scout you have a chance to run for it. |
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Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die
55
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
I have a dual SMG scout.
Its pretty fun!
Only problem is I have to get close to people to even have a chance of killing them and thats very difficult to do with the new mob spawn system. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
216
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
I've started reskilling my AR scout. Used to play it exclusively and do pretty good. I hate being the 'supposedly' op class of the month so switched to logi and assault when people were saying that scouts were broken due to hit detection issues in E3. I play my scout every so often now, but want to wait until I have a few more skill points in all the right areas before playing it regularly. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
422
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
I do SMGs as a primary weapon, but you don't often see me in a Scout suit beyond the first spawn of a Skirmish match. Whenever I expect more than token resistance by the reds, I switch back to Assault. Perhaps I will go back after maxing out passive stealth skills, but the low eHP and fitting resources really hamstring them in combat.
I don't think the problem is that nobody is rolling Scout, but that fewer and fewer people are bothering with non-shotgun combat fittings for them. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1864
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Why would I fire in bursts close combat? The AR can hip fire continuously just fine. Obviously haven't played against someone with good CQC skills if you're hitting consistently with hipfire in close quarters.
Quote:At ~15 meters range, heavy outsprints SMG sights turn speed. Type 2 suits and scout can simply outrun it without sprinting. I am talking about forward speed movement, not sidestep movement but this illustrates how horrible the sights actually are. And that's why taking a comment about using the sights at EXTREME SMG RANGE out of context didn't help you at all. I never said a word about trying to use sights in close range. Or even mid-range for that matter.
Quote:When is CPU an issue for you? you can lower the CPU requirement by alot with skills for weapons and alot of other modules, you cant do the same with PG, my fittings are never tight on CPU. I know scouts CPU is low but it is manageable after skilling up those skills that lower CPU requirement. So you're saying there are no PG increasing modules? And no skills that reduce PG use of any modules a Scout could conceivably be fitting? And ignoring the question about pairing the Shotgun with a Sniper Rifle or Swarm Launcher? Or did you forget that those are fitting requirements too? |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 16:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
They are all just biding their time and waiting for Minmatar Scout suits. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 16:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
I run Assault rather than Scout suits, but I have trained SMG to 5 and SMG Proficiency to 2. It makes me feel a lot less vulnerable when running fits that include a Sniper Riffle, Laser, or Swarm Launcher. On Urban maps I have shifted my thinking so that I consider my long range weapon to be my secondary/situational weapon. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Obviously haven't played against someone with good CQC skills if you're hitting consistently with hipfire in close quarters.
lack of aiming skill is no argument about weapon performance. hitting constantly is not hard in this game, the strafing speeds are low. I might as well use your fail monkey logic and claim that AR is underpowered cause when I miss my target it deals no damage if you have issue hitting someone with the AR up close, than it is you, not the weapon.
Garrett Blacknova wrote: So you're saying there are no PG increasing modules? And no skills that reduce PG use of any modules a Scout could conceivably be fitting? And ignoring the question about pairing the Shotgun with a Sniper Rifle or Swarm Launcher? Or did you forget that those are fitting requirements too?
first I ignored that question because not everyone uses a sniper rifle or swarm launcher and second not every suit has 2 weapon slots. also why would I want to waste a slot on a PG module, when I can just train a few skills to reduce CPU requirement and take the specialist shotgun to save PG and instead use that slot for something usefull.
Garrett Blacknova wrote: And that's why taking a comment about using the sights at EXTREME SMG RANGE out of context didn't help you at all. I never said a word about trying to use sights in close range. Or even mid-range for that matter.
extreme range with SMG, cool story! what is extreme range for you? SMG has 15 meters optimal range, ~20 with skills. beyond 15m the spread starts to make miss alot of damage on a stationary assault suit. just because you use sights does not mean that the weapon is suddenly super accurate. beyond 20 meters and wont even scratch the shields before you die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJkDmzRK_A => at around 0:50 he engages a type 2 suit, stationary target. starts to shot him, it takes too long to even break the shield UP CLOSE on a STATIONARY target hitting every bullet, the assault suit simple walks way one second after realizing that someone is attacking him. few seconds later he engages the assault with no shields again at about 20 meter range, he uses sights to hit him but deals almost no damage cause the spread is too large. he gets hit 3 times from the AR hip fire and runs for his life. yeah SMG is "great" at "extreme range".
I have used the SMG for 1 month with good KDR and have the skills almost maxed so I obviously know what the weapon is capable of. also thanks to someone else I have a nice video as evidence of real battle situations that prove you wrong so I dont have to make them by myself. make a video and try to prove me wrong, but now you are just theorycrafting with false assumptions and zero evidence.
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Volgair
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
207
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 18:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
What happened to the scout? They now move to slow and tank to little. Assaults now have the comparable mobility and 3 times (about 1.5 seconds of survival time under concentrated fire.) the tank of its scout counter part. (.5 seconds of survival time under concentrated fire.) If such is the case then why bother, if your good as a scout you'll be near unstoppable as an Assault for the same reasons.
I have stated many times, give scouts the speed they used to have back and people will find a reason to use them once again. (I can not recall the exact speeds but it was something like 6.2m/s strafe and 10.2m/s sprint.) While the hit boxes are still a little clumsy they are much better now then they were in July, this alone warrants the scout getting buffed back to its rite full place as the "fast-utility suit." |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 20:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Don't all good scouts go to heaven? |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
240
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 21:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Now I only see Snipers and Shotgunners who use the Scout Suit. Granted, some of them are good at it, but where are all the AR and SMG users of old? Off the top of my head, Satori was pretty beast.
I run alone now with my Ishukone SMG, and wish some more people would join me. It's a good life. my smg is still here |
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Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
424
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 22:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:I run Assault rather than Scout suits, but I have trained SMG to 5 and SMG Proficiency to 2. It makes me feel a lot less vulnerable when running fits that include a Sniper Riffle, Laser, or Swarm Launcher. On Urban maps I have shifted my thinking so that I consider my long range weapon to be my secondary/situational weapon.
Pump up Sidearm Sharpshooter to the same level and it's a perfectly viable primary weapon. |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
44
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 23:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
I've been running Scout Type II with only the Assault Scrambler Pistol, alternate using my two equipment slots for uplinks/explosives and nanoinjector/repair tool. The latter is basically a super fast logi. Having played a lot of logi previously, I can tell you I prefer the extra speed over the extra armor/shields. Makes more sense as a logi, I'm not going to be in many head-to-head fights and need to be able to reach people quickly before they are downed or bleed out. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
471
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 00:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Now I only see Snipers and Shotgunners who use the Scout Suit. Granted, some of them are good at it, but where are all the AR and SMG users of old? Off the top of my head, Satori was pretty beast.
I run alone now with my Ishukone SMG, and wish some more people would join me. It's a good life. maybe it's because a small insignificant nerfed strafe isn't worth having your health cut by over one third (the difference is much larger if you level out the skills). not to mention the shield assault suits are way better and can deal just as much damage as a scout suit of equal level.
unnerf strafe and maybe there would be a larger spike in usage. bunny hopping and hitting A and D rapidly already makes the game look silly so having circle strafing wouldn't be much of a difference other than hurt the one suit that could use it. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 08:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
After playig the shottyscout for a few days it really isnt that effective anymore compared to afew months ago before the strafe nerfs. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1169
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 08:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Now I only see Snipers and Shotgunners who use the Scout Suit. Granted, some of them are good at it, but where are all the AR and SMG users of old? Off the top of my head, Satori was pretty beast.
I run alone now with my Ishukone SMG, and wish some more people would join me. It's a good life.
Am i the only one who kinda sung the Thread Title with a jack johnson melody ?
'"Where have all the great scouts goOOoooone?" "I've been searching social i dont see them on the leaderbooaaard"
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1871
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 08:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:and now, as evidence I present you a nice video made by someone else. at around 0:50 it shows how bad the SMG really is UP CLOSE AGAINST a STATIONARY target and at around 20 meters range: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJkDmzRK_A => at around 0:50 he engages a type 2 suit, stationary target. starts to shot him, it takes too long to even break the shield UP CLOSE on a STATIONARY target hitting every bullet, the assault suit simple walks way one second after realizing that someone is attacking him. few seconds later he engages the assault with no shields again at about 20 meter range, he uses sights to hit him but deals almost no damage cause the spread is too large. he gets hit 3 times from the AR hip fire and runs for his life. yeah SMG sights "help" alot at range, when you deal no damage Nice example.
When you say "up close" it looks like you mean "up close" as in "well out of CQC range and far enough that it's worth using sights on a stationary target" so yeah, that's up close now. And I'm assuming that almost half the shots missing and none of them landing as headshots because the guy can't keep his aim on target the whole time was meant to somehow count as "hitting every bullet", so with those assumptions covered...
You're right, taking an undamaged SHIELD-TANKED Assault suit into armour damage in less than a second is definitely "too long" and "dealing no damage".
Also, I like how you say he "simply walks away" when he immediately ducked into cover, knowing where he enemy was shooting from, and kept the cover between himself and the attacker until he could escape - as you'd describe it, "running for his life". As well he should when his suit is weighted in favour of shields as protection and already down to armour before he had time to react. |
SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
253
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 09:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
Planning to go Scout after I max my assault more.. but pls refer to me as Kreayshawn in the future :3 |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 11:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:and now, as evidence I present you a nice video made by someone else. at around 0:50 it shows how bad the SMG really is UP CLOSE AGAINST a STATIONARY target and at around 20 meters range: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJkDmzRK_A => at around 0:50 he engages a type 2 suit, stationary target. starts to shot him, it takes too long to even break the shield UP CLOSE on a STATIONARY target hitting every bullet, the assault suit simple walks way one second after realizing that someone is attacking him. few seconds later he engages the assault with no shields again at about 20 meter range, he uses sights to hit him but deals almost no damage cause the spread is too large. he gets hit 3 times from the AR hip fire and runs for his life. yeah SMG sights "help" alot at range, when you deal no damage Nice example. When you say "up close" it looks like you mean "up close" as in "well out of CQC range and far enough that it's worth using sights on a stationary target" so yeah, that's up close now. And I'm assuming that almost half the shots missing and none of them landing as headshots because the guy can't keep his aim on target the whole time was meant to somehow count as "hitting every bullet", so with those assumptions covered... You're right, taking an undamaged SHIELD-TANKED Assault suit into armour damage in less than a second with a BPO weapon is definitely "too long" and "dealing no damage". Also, I like how you say he "simply walks away" when he immediately ducked into cover, knowing where he enemy was shooting from, and kept the cover between himself and the attacker until he could escape - as you'd describe it, "running for his life". As well he should when his suit is weighted in favour of shields as protection and already down to armour before he had time to react. so you tell us, that if we are 2 meter infront of someone we should use sights with SMG
also he did not ducked for cover, he walked away without sprinting after getting hit for 1 second of full dps of the SMG but because of SMGs weakness against shields he barely broke his shields. he could not finish him off later becaus the spread made him miss every bullet at that range. scrambler would kill him on objective. shotgun would one shot this guy on objective, and 2 shot him later without shields. AR would leave him deep into armor and finish him off later. the spread makes the SMG useless beyond 10 meters, you can deny it as much as you want, the video shows it well. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1876
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 12:06:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:so you tell us, that if we are 2 meter infront of someone we should use sights with SMG also he did not ducked for cover, he walked away without sprinting after getting hit for 1 second of full dps of the SMG but because of SMGs weakness against shields he barely broke his shields. SMG could not finish him off later because the spread made him miss alot of bullets at that range. scrambler would kill him on objective and one shot him with a clear headshot. shotgun would one shot this guy on objective, and 2 shot him later without shields. AR would leave him deep into armor and finish him off later. the spread makes the SMG useless beyond 10 meters, you can deny it as much as you want, but the video shows truth well.
That was closer to 15m than 2m. Probably actually 10m, but why don't I play your game for a bit?
And your "20m" shots were more like 30. If I wanted to be reasonable, I'd say 25, but why don't I take things as far as you did with your 2m claim, and call it 50m? That sounds fair, right?
And he walked in a direction which PUT THE OBJECTIVE BETWEEN HIM AND THE SHOOTER ALMOST INSTANTLY. Thus making it an effective "duck for cover" as I said. Particularly effective given the fact that his attacker was aiming the wrong way by the time he moved, anticipating a move away from the cover instead of into it, and moving in a direction other than where the shots were going means he's even less likely to take damage regardless of the cover he was aiming for as soon as he started moving.
And it was definitely NOT "full DPS" when at the same range, a player with good aim can consistently have ALL their shots (instead of barely more than half) hitting the target and more than half of those hitting the head for more damage than those bodyshots. A Scrambler Pistol, aimed as well as that SMG was, and with MORE SP investment than that SMG needed, would also land the same amount of headshots (NONE), and wouldn't even break the shields before running out of ammo and needing to reload, allowing the Assault time to turn, shoot him in the head with the AR, and get a clean kill that the SMG didn't give him an option for. If it was a player with better aim, then it would be an unfair comparison. You're comparing a player with good ranged combat skills using a weapon better-suited to that situation with a player who has good situational awareness but terrible aim, using a weapon that better plays to their strengths. A good player knows their limits, and can work within them. This guy isn't good enough at going for headshots to be effective with a Scrambler Pistol. To be perfectly honest, neither am I, but I'm better at it than he is. I think he's possibly a bit better at taking advantage of cover than I am though. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
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Posted - 2013.03.07 14:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: That was closer to 15m than 2m. Probably actually 10m, but why don't I play your game for a bit?
attacker was aiming the wrong way by the time he moved,
now you claim this is 15-10 meters away and he aimed in the wrong direction sure that 3 meters are magically 10-15 meters and he wasnt aiming at him properly at all, but oh wait the video shows something else https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n4k18aswsyueyk/Clipboard01.jpg yeah that is "totally" 10 meters away and he is "totally" not aiming at him hahaha
no word can describe your cluelessness but I guess ignorance is a blessing in your case |
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