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Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
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Posted - 2013.03.06 10:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
SMG has low range, low accuracy and lower dps than anything. you have to dump alot SP into it to make it decent and still anyone using it over AR should rethink it, AR offers more damage per clip, fires just as long before reload, reloads just as fast, offers more range, more dps and more flexilibility. SMG is also weaker against shields and type 2 assault (the most common suit on the field) has big shields. SMG is for people that cannot aim up close and want to spray because they lack skill 
btw specialist shotgun is way better then the SMG, minimal fitting requirements and you can still kill stuff faster than with the SMG up to 15 meters due to the fall off mechanics. SMG is terrible outside 10 meters due to the accuracy. the shotgun on the other hand will two shot anything at that range before the SMG goes through the shields.
oh, not to mention that the breach SMG is the worst weapon ingame, 30% less dps than regular SMG, 50% less than an AR and it only gets a slight accuracy boost |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 12:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:stuff
SMG "spray and pray" is closed beta mentality where scouts speed was insane and this mentality should remain in the past. lack of aiming skills is no argument as is your theorycraft. movement is slow now and keeping up aim is totally manageable. if you cant achieve atleast 30% hit rate with the AR up close then you are terrible by FPS standards. you also mentioned SMG sights, I hope you are joking... SMG sights slow down turn speed massively, even a heavy can outrun it. note that I have alot more SP invested in SMG than you and the AR is still superior with zero SP investment.
I suggest you to test this out by yourself: put points into shotgun and into primary weapon sharpshooter skill (but I guess you already have it anyway). take the specialist shotgun which has better fitting requirements than SMG (yeah the specialist shotgun, a primary weapon, is easier to fit than the SMG). go to a heavy suit that is 15m away from you. Now try to kill him. do the same with assault SMG and you will see how fast the heavy drops against the shotgun compared to the SMG. the shotgun has like 30 meters falloff, that means, it still deals incredible damage at 15 meter range despite having very low optimal. the SMGs accuracy and weakness against shields is a massive letdown in a game were most fights happen at around 20 meter range and the most common suit is the caldari assault type 2 with massive shields. there is not point to use a "close combat" weapon like the SMG when you can simply take the specialist shotgun with even better fitting requirements and there is no point taking the SMG over the AR as all purpose weapon anyway. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Yes, but you achieve that accuracy by NOT continuously firing, meaning you're still losing out on your DPS even if you're not losing as much in your damage per reload. The SMG with 30% accuracy will still be dealing more damage, faster, and will get the kill first in most cases, even when it's cheap Scout vs. expensive Assault.
Why would I fire in bursts close combat? The AR can hip fire continuously just fine.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
in CQC, yeah. At the kind of range where the accuracy improvement is useful, Scouts have to sprint to beat your turning speed. I wasn't talking about using SMG sights in CQC, because I'm not an idiot. Sorry to disappoint.
At ~15 meters range, heavy outsprints SMG sights turn speed. Type 2 suits and scout can simply outrun it without sprinting.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The Specialist Shotgun is nice. And you're TOTALLY right about the 24 CPU it requires being less than the 15 CPU required by the equivalent SMG, or the 18 CPU required by the Assault variant. It's also SUCH a big surprise that a primary CQC weapon is better for CQC than a Sidearm with a similar range profile. And please, tell me, exactly which suit are you using that allows you to pair that Shotgun with a Sniper Rifle or a Swarm Launcher?
When is CPU an issue for you? you can lower the CPU requirement by alot with skills for weapons and alot of other modules, you cant do the same with PG, my fittings are never tight on CPU. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Obviously haven't played against someone with good CQC skills if you're hitting consistently with hipfire in close quarters.
lack of aiming skill is no argument about weapon performance. hitting constantly is not hard in this game, the strafing speeds are low. I might as well use your fail monkey logic and claim that AR is underpowered cause when I miss my target it deals no damage if you have issue hitting someone with the AR up close, than it is you, not the weapon.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
So you're saying there are no PG increasing modules? And no skills that reduce PG use of any modules a Scout could conceivably be fitting? And ignoring the question about pairing the Shotgun with a Sniper Rifle or Swarm Launcher? Or did you forget that those are fitting requirements too?
first I ignored that question because not everyone uses a sniper rifle or swarm launcher and second not every suit has 2 weapon slots. also why would I want to waste a slot on a PG module, when I can just train a few skills to reduce CPU requirement and take the specialist shotgun to save PG and instead use that slot for something usefull.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
And that's why taking a comment about using the sights at EXTREME SMG RANGE out of context didn't help you at all. I never said a word about trying to use sights in close range. Or even mid-range for that matter.
extreme range with SMG, cool story! what is extreme range for you? SMG has 15 meters optimal range, ~20 with skills. beyond 15m the spread starts to make miss alot of damage on a stationary assault suit. just because you use sights does not mean that the weapon is suddenly super accurate. beyond 20 meters and wont even scratch the shields before you die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJkDmzRK_A => at around 0:50 he engages a type 2 suit, stationary target. starts to shot him, it takes too long to even break the shield UP CLOSE on a STATIONARY target hitting every bullet, the assault suit simple walks way one second after realizing that someone is attacking him. few seconds later he engages the assault with no shields again at about 20 meter range, he uses sights to hit him but deals almost no damage cause the spread is too large. he gets hit 3 times from the AR hip fire and runs for his life. yeah SMG is "great" at "extreme range".
I have used the SMG for 1 month with good KDR and have the skills almost maxed so I obviously know what the weapon is capable of. also thanks to someone else I have a nice video as evidence of real battle situations that prove you wrong so I dont have to make them by myself. make a video and try to prove me wrong, but now you are just theorycrafting with false assumptions and zero evidence.
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Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 11:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:and now, as evidence I present you a nice video made by someone else. at around 0:50 it shows how bad the SMG really is UP CLOSE AGAINST a STATIONARY target and at around 20 meters range: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJkDmzRK_A => at around 0:50 he engages a type 2 suit, stationary target. starts to shot him, it takes too long to even break the shield UP CLOSE on a STATIONARY target hitting every bullet, the assault suit simple walks way one second after realizing that someone is attacking him. few seconds later he engages the assault with no shields again at about 20 meter range, he uses sights to hit him but deals almost no damage cause the spread is too large. he gets hit 3 times from the AR hip fire and runs for his life. yeah SMG sights "help" alot at range, when you deal no damage Nice example. When you say "up close" it looks like you mean "up close" as in "well out of CQC range and far enough that it's worth using sights on a stationary target" so yeah, that's up close now. And I'm assuming that almost half the shots missing and none of them landing as headshots because the guy can't keep his aim on target the whole time was meant to somehow count as "hitting every bullet", so with those assumptions covered... You're right, taking an undamaged SHIELD-TANKED Assault suit into armour damage in less than a second with a BPO weapon is definitely "too long" and "dealing no damage". Also, I like how you say he "simply walks away" when he immediately ducked into cover, knowing where he enemy was shooting from, and kept the cover between himself and the attacker until he could escape - as you'd describe it, "running for his life". As well he should when his suit is weighted in favour of shields as protection and already down to armour before he had time to react.
so you tell us, that if we are 2 meter infront of someone we should use sights with SMG
also he did not ducked for cover, he walked away without sprinting after getting hit for 1 second of full dps of the SMG but because of SMGs weakness against shields he barely broke his shields. he could not finish him off later becaus the spread made him miss every bullet at that range. scrambler would kill him on objective. shotgun would one shot this guy on objective, and 2 shot him later without shields. AR would leave him deep into armor and finish him off later. the spread makes the SMG useless beyond 10 meters, you can deny it as much as you want, the video shows it well. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 14:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
That was closer to 15m than 2m. Probably actually 10m, but why don't I play your game for a bit?
attacker was aiming the wrong way by the time he moved,
now you claim this is 15-10 meters away and he aimed in the wrong direction
sure that 3 meters are magically 10-15 meters and he wasnt aiming at him properly at all, but oh wait the video shows something else https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n4k18aswsyueyk/Clipboard01.jpg yeah that is "totally" 10 meters away and he is "totally" not aiming at him hahaha
no word can describe your cluelessness but I guess ignorance is a blessing in your case  |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 15:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
That was closer to 15m than 2m. Probably actually 10m, but why don't I play your game for a bit?
attacker was aiming the wrong way by the time he moved,
now you claim this is 15-10 meters away and he aimed in the wrong direction sure that 3 meters are magically 10-15 meters and he wasnt aiming at him properly at all, but oh wait the video shows something else https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n4k18aswsyueyk/Clipboard01.jpg yeah that is "totally" 10 meters away and he is "totally" not aiming at him hahaha no word can describe your cluelessness but I guess ignorance is a blessing in your case Lets look at the position he was firing from - but BEFORE he scoped in (he didn't move closer, he ONLY used the sights, which ZOOM YOUR VIEW IN): Link.That definitely looks a lot like 3m. You're totally right. Now lets look at how "on-target" he was as his target started to move: Link.Yep. On-target. Definitely.
your first screenshots shows him walking up to him
your second screenshot shows the assault guy walking away after receiving bullets for over a second.
so what is your point again? that you are a welp full of ignorance?
what is even more amusing is, that you still try to argue about something that you cant argue, everyone can check the video and see that you are full of bs
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