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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
239
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 20:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is not official; it is me running wild with stuff that CCP has hinted/said and imagining a system that I think would be cool.
Districts CCP has said that districts are hexagonal, and possibly about 200km in radius. They have also said that the heightmaps for battlefields are about 5km square. We know that each district will have only one kind of Surface Infrastructure (SI)- mining, manufacturing, etc. We also know that some districts are planned to have supplemental emplacements, which IGÇÖm calling Secondary Surface Infrastructure (SSI) as opposed to Primary Surface Infrastructure (PSI). This is all from the Seeding the Universe talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNmCRti9dFM
Wards CCP has already hinted that Districts might have Wards, based on the Gribakir and Fetalis maps that used to be in rotation. This suggests that there can be multiple battlefields in a District.
Rim These are purely my own invention, being small, outlying areas at the edge of districts.
This is a picture of what I think a District might look like under this system: http://imgur.com/Oa1NWyc
Primary Surface Infrastructure One Ward in each District hosts its Primary Surface Infrastructure. These include resource extraction, manufacturing, and something called a Surface Command Center (SCC) which is limited to one per planet and is tied to an Orbital Command Center (OCC). Each of these should be upgradeable with upgrading tied to some skill or other and costing lots of ISK.
- Surface Command Center GÇô Planetary Defense Hub
- Resource Extraction GÇô
-> Noble Metals (Garentium, Taplinum) -> Base Metals (Magazinium, Ulaminium) -> Heavy Metals (Iradium, Arunium) -> Proteins (Vegeproteins, Carnaproteins) -> Biofuels (Hydrocarbon Fuels, Carboniferous Fuels) -> Aqueous Liquids (Water, Hydrogen Fuels), and so on.
- Manufacturing GÇô
-> Light Manufacturing (Weapons, Modules) -> Medium Manufacturing (Dropsuits, Vehicle Modules) -> Heavy Manufacturing (Vehicles, Installations)
Secondary Surface Infrastructure These can be placed in the remaining six Wards of a district. The specific example given in the talk was an anti-ship cannon that attacked EVE ships that were near the OCC. However, there are many other types of SSI possible, from production enhancements and warehouses to spaceports and defensive bastions. Each of these should be upgradeable with upgrading tied to some skill or other and costing lots of ISK.
- Spaceport GÇô Three levels (Launchpad, Spaceport, Major Spaceport) each with improved ability to move goods and services off-world.
- Orbital Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Skywatch, Skyguard, Skyfire) each with improved levels of damage against ships in the DistrictGÇÖs skybox.
- Bastion GÇô Three levels (Redoubt, Fortress, Citadel) each creating a reinforced Defender position in a Ward that must be captured to take the district.
- Refinery GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) permitting conversion of raw materials into useful minerals/inputs for manufacturing- each level improves efficiency.
- Harvester GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) improving raw material yield for a Resource Extraction PSI.
Factories GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) improving efficiency of a Manufacturing PSI.
Tertiary Surface Infrastructure My own invention, these are smaller constructs that fit into the six Rim locations of a district. Each of these should be upgradeable with upgrading tied to some skill or other and costing lots of ISK.
- Warehouse GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) allowing storage of more materials, finished goods, etc. in the District.
- Transit Hub GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) allowing easier movement of goods from District to District across the surface.
- Bombard Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Firebolt, Firestorm, Firelord) that enable improved Precision Strikes on the planetGÇÖs surface even without a War Barge.
- ECM Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Haze, Shadow, Umbra) that limit the scale of Attacker deployments in the District.
- ECCM Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Candle, Lantern, Sunbeam) that reduce the effectiveness of enemy planetary ECM Emplacements.
- AA Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Cloudwatch, Cloudguard, Cloudfire) that prevent the deployment of Attacker MCC (1), Installations (2), Aircraft (3) in the district.
- Forward Base GÇô A special type of TSI that can only be built by Attackers who win control of a Rim space. A Forward Base replaces the DefendersGÇÖ TSI and enables the Attacker to bypass the effects of ECM and AA Emplacements in the district.
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
239
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Example of Play Carebear Corporation A (CCA) wins control of an unclaimed District (GÇ£MithlondGÇ¥) and begins mining Reactive Metals with a Resource Extraction PSI. After awhile, they erect two Refineries, processing half of their raw ore into Magazinium and half into Ulaminium. This boosts their profit margin. They also add a Harvester to boost yields and a Spaceport to reduce shipping costs to the Market. Realizing that they are vulnerable, CCA builds an Orbital Emplacement and a Bastion, using up the last of their free Wards.
CCA also controls a Manufacturing District (GÇ£MordorGÇ¥), so they build a Transit Hub to reduce the cost of shipping materials to Mordor. They are small and have few members, so they install an ECM Emplacement and max it out, meaning that only Squad-sized battles can take place. They drop in an AA Emplacement and three Warehouses to finish out their Rim slots.
Griefer Allied National Corp. (GANC) decides to conquer Mithlond just so they can rename it GÇ£PoovilleGÇ¥ and erect a SCC. At first, they decide to attack the Bastion, figuring that if they take it, then they can take the PSI and win the District in two battles.
Unfortunately for GANC, the ECM Emplacement limits their deployment to a six-man Squad, which is totally stomped by CCAGÇÖs careberries because of the bastionGÇÖs automated defensive systems.
GANC rethinks their strategy and decides to go after the ECM Emplacement. CCA knew that this facility was vital and has hired some good mercs to defend it. GANC gets stomped again. They rethink their strategy again.
GANC decides to attack a Warehouse with the aim of converting it into a Forward Base. Since CCA didnGÇÖt think this was a high-value target, they left defense of it to Instant Battle Blueberries (IBBs) who get totally rolled by GANC. Now that GANC has a Forward Base, the ECM and AA facilities are useless and they can deploy a full 24-man team against the Bastion with RDVs and everything. CCA gets creamed at the Bastion and then again at the PSI, losing the District.
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
239
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved for refinements/clarificiation based on feedback. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
171
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Posted - 2013.03.01 21:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
This would be really cool, but crazy complicated, but really cool. +1 (x3 posts) |
Mercian Enforcer
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.03.01 21:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
The ideas are coming in quick and fast now....Love it!. +1 |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1116
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Posted - 2013.03.01 21:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is well thought out. Thanks for posting it. I will say its just really hard to properly evaluate it since the high level stuff is still unknown to us. I would hope CCP FoxFour or CCP Nullarbor would put up their dev blog regarding this ASAP. Once we see what they have for us then a lot of the detail you provided can be evaluated along with what ccp has designed.
+1 |
James Thraxton
The Exemplars
83
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:This would be really cool, but crazy complicated, but really cool. +1 (x3 posts)
Thats how CCP does it. . . +1 OP |
Necandi Brasil
Conspiratus Immortalis
246
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Posted - 2013.03.01 21:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
OP Ideas deserves more likes than I can give... +1 |
Sextus Hardcock
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
84
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Posted - 2013.03.01 22:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well thought out and well written. Its an exciting vision, but we'll have to see what CCP has in store... |
Etero Narciss
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
112
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Posted - 2013.03.01 22:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like the thought of the "Wards" breaking up the districts into more chunks to fight over. It has the potential of making campaigns out of certain districts. Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.
Anyway, +1 from me and a friendly bump! |
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
255
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 00:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:This is well thought out. Thanks for posting it. I will say its just really hard to properly evaluate it since the high level stuff is still unknown to us. I would hope CCP FoxFour or CCP Nullarbor would put up their dev blog regarding this ASAP. Once we see what they have for us then a lot of the detail you provided can be evaluated along with what ccp has designed.
+1
I agree. Part of my reason for posting this was in the hopes that we would see more on the topic from CCP. |
Athene Alland
Red Fox Brigade
108
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 14:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sounds good,
But i got the impression from CCP's fan fest presentation that Wards would have slots like ships and suits,
so for example the ward they used in presentation had slots for 1 large (high) installation, 2 mid installations and 3 small (low) installations,
This would likely mean that wards and districts could have many variations and be as individulistic as our suits and ships.
-'Ad Mortis Nos Tripudio'- |
Schazla
WarRavens
161
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 14:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
+3 Great idea. |
Asaitiago
Mandalorian's
1
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Posted - 2013.03.02 15:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's cool because it does give a "landgrab" feel to what dust needs. I'm terrified that all dust is going to be are these different play modes with no real involvement (except in diplomacy) in the eve world. If a corporation is simply quantified by it's total Kill to death ratio, then this game could get boring. I just really don't want it to be Corporation A won 15 Skirmishes, and 35 Ambushes, and corporation B won 10 Skirmishes, and 15 Ambushes, so Corporation A wins. That doesn't make sense to me. No one "WINS" by winning more battles then the other side. They win by strategy and destroying the other side entirely until they are all dead,. or voluntarily (although reluctantly) retreat.
I hate to bring it up, because they seem to be mortal enemies, but Planet side 2 really has that land grab feel. I lost interest in it because no matter what you do, you never stomp out the enemy completely. They always have that damn warp gate that you can't touch. That is not what eve is about, and I know CCP isn't going to do anything like that. But the interface of having an overview map with definable front lines that change directly to your involvement. I really want that interface. I pray that CCP does have something like that where we can visually see a front line, and determine where we need to deploy to in order to stop them, or cut them off. Not just a board with tally marks on it. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
259
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 16:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Asaitiago wrote:What I want clarification on, is how will this affect Planetary Interaction in EVE online. My character in EVE is very involved with PI, and CCP said that they have installed PI with DUST 514 directly in mind. So I can't imagine the current PI changing too much from what it is, though I'm sure it will change some as realities of these two games interfacing begin to come to light. But as an EVE player, I want to see my PI involvement also make a difference. Possibly a new career in EVE online. A planetary base designer that is paid for his expertise, proven in battle, of designing and placing facilities.
What I took from the Seeding the Universe talk (link above) is that PI will be totally separate from SI for the time being. It's possible that they will integrate them more later- CCP has hinted a desire to remake PI previously. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 16:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote: AWESOME STUFF
I really hope this is what CCP is planning or this influences thier design. This is fricken awesome. I cannot give you enough likes.
CCP give this man a job.
Breath taking. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 17:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:
What I took from the Seeding the Universe talk (link above) is that PI will be totally separate from SI for the time being. It's possible that they will integrate them more later- CCP has hinted a desire to remake PI previously.
Incidently it was the DUST 514 team who designed PI.
Just saying.
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1225
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 17:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:This is not official; it is me running wild with stuff that CCP has hinted/said and imagining a system that I think would be cool. DistrictsCCP has said that districts are hexagonal, and possibly about 200km in radius. They have also said that the heightmaps for battlefields are about 5km square. We know that each district will have only one kind of Surface Infrastructure (SI)- mining, manufacturing, etc. We also know that some districts are planned to have supplemental emplacements, which IGÇÖm calling Secondary Surface Infrastructure (SSI) as opposed to Primary Surface Infrastructure (PSI). This is all from the Seeding the Universe talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNmCRti9dFMWardsCCP has already hinted that Districts might have Wards, based on the Gribakir and Fetalis maps that used to be in rotation. This suggests that there can be multiple battlefields in a District. RimThese are purely my own invention, being small, outlying areas at the edge of districts. This is a picture of what I think a District might look like under this system: http://imgur.com/Oa1NWycPrimary Surface InfrastructureOne Ward in each District hosts its Primary Surface Infrastructure. These include resource extraction, manufacturing, and something called a Surface Command Center (SCC) which is limited to one per planet and is tied to an Orbital Command Center (OCC). Each of these should be upgradeable with upgrading tied to some skill or other and costing lots of ISK.
- Surface Command Center GÇô Planetary Defense Hub
- Resource Extraction GÇô
-> Noble Metals (Garentium, Taplinum) -> Base Metals (Magazinium, Ulaminium) -> Heavy Metals (Iradium, Arunium) -> Proteins (Vegeproteins, Carnaproteins) -> Biofuels (Hydrocarbon Fuels, Carboniferous Fuels) -> Aqueous Liquids (Water, Hydrogen Fuels), and so on.
- Manufacturing GÇô
-> Light Manufacturing (Weapons, Modules) -> Medium Manufacturing (Dropsuits, Vehicle Modules) -> Heavy Manufacturing (Vehicles, Installations)
Secondary Surface InfrastructureThese can be placed in the remaining six Wards of a district. The specific example given in the talk was an anti-ship cannon that attacked EVE ships that were near the OCC. However, there are many other types of SSI possible, from production enhancements and warehouses to spaceports and defensive bastions. Each of these should be upgradeable with upgrading tied to some skill or other and costing lots of ISK.
- Spaceport GÇô Three levels (Launchpad, Spaceport, Major Spaceport) each with improved ability to move goods and services off-world.
- Orbital Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Skywatch, Skyguard, Skyfire) each with improved levels of damage against ships in the DistrictGÇÖs skybox.
- Bastion GÇô Three levels (Redoubt, Fortress, Citadel) each creating a reinforced Defender position in a Ward that must be captured to take the district.
- Refinery GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) permitting conversion of raw materials into useful minerals/inputs for manufacturing- each level improves efficiency.
- Harvester GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) improving raw material yield for a Resource Extraction PSI.
Factories GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) improving efficiency of a Manufacturing PSI.
Tertiary Surface InfrastructureMy own invention, these are smaller constructs that fit into the six Rim locations of a district. Each of these should be upgradeable with upgrading tied to some skill or other and costing lots of ISK.
- Warehouse GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) allowing storage of more materials, finished goods, etc. in the District.
- Transit Hub GÇô Three levels (Basic, Standard, Advanced) allowing easier movement of goods from District to District across the surface.
- Bombard Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Firebolt, Firestorm, Firelord) that enable improved Precision Strikes on the planetGÇÖs surface even without a War Barge.
- ECM Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Haze, Shadow, Umbra) that limit the scale of Attacker deployments in the District.
- ECCM Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Candle, Lantern, Sunbeam) that reduce the effectiveness of enemy planetary ECM Emplacements.
- AA Emplacement GÇô Three levels (Cloudwatch, Cloudguard, Cloudfire) that prevent the deployment of Attacker MCC (1), Installations (2), Aircraft (3) in the district.
- Forward Base GÇô A special type of TSI that can only be built by Attackers who win control of a Rim space. A Forward Base replaces the DefendersGÇÖ TSI and enables the Attacker to bypass the effects of ECM and AA Emplacements in the district.
See, I like this because it contains several similar ideas to what I put forward in a thread of my own. +1 from me. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
271
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:See, I like this because it contains several similar ideas to what I put forward in a thread of my own. +1 from me.
Well, I guess you're just awesome too.
We should form an awesome club.
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Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
41
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
I want to play this version of Dust
+1 |
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
465
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 21:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
You've been quite busy Vaerana, +2! But I do have a question...
When you go on to talk about Infrastructure of Territory, and you talk about biological productions (Proteins-> Amino Acids, Biofuels, etc) do these types of Biological productions give an inherent bonus to clone supply should battle occur in the territory? Or even just in the general ward/rim? Or not at all?
So if I had Biomass Plant A in North Ward, would the whole territory have an inherent boost to clone supply, or just Northward, or not at all?
Although the Biomass plant has little to do with clones, wouldn't the resources it create supplement clone supply do to the nature of the production?
Good work though!
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Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
349
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 22:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is well done and pretty much where I've been expecting the game to be going over time.
I'm very very unclear WHEN any of this will happen.
There is such a mix out there of what CCP CAN do and what it MIGHT do and WHEN?
No timeline or set of milestones has been presented to clue us in. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
278
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 22:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:You've been quite busy Vaerana, +2! But I do have a question...
When you go on to talk about Infrastructure of Territory, and you talk about biological productions (Proteins-> Amino Acids, Biofuels, etc) do these types of Biological productions give an inherent bonus to clone supply should battle occur in the territory? Or even just in the general ward/rim? Or not at all?
So if I had Biomass Plant A in North Ward, would the whole territory have an inherent boost to clone supply, or just Northward, or not at all?
Although the Biomass plant has little to do with clones, wouldn't the resources it create supplement clone supply do to the nature of the production?
Good work though!
Hmm... That's a good question. I didn't really consider it. I still think of clones as being recycled corpses from the EVE lore ( http://community.eveonline.com/background/cloning/clon_02.asp ).
In my mind the major use of Proteins in Dust production was for building Dropsuits. If you look closely at them, most have flexible, fabric-like components. I just appropriated the PI resource and shifted it to a more Dust-y purpose. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
466
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 01:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Hmm... That's a good question. I didn't really consider it. I still think of clones as being recycled corpses from the EVE lore ( http://community.eveonline.com/background/cloning/clon_02.asp ). In my mind the major use of Proteins in Dust production was for building Dropsuits. If you look closely at them, most have flexible, fabric-like components. I just appropriated the PI resource and shifted it to a more Dust-y purpose. Ok I was thinking proteins as in Amino Acid productions.
Now I have another question,
In developing a ward/territory, would you add infrastructure via a simple fitting mechanic or would you actually get to choose the location that a said factory can be built?
For instance you have an open territory and want to place build it up. You want to place an Orbital Emplacement on a mountain to better defend it, would that be possible? Or would it be generically placed? |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
279
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 02:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Hmm... That's a good question. I didn't really consider it. I still think of clones as being recycled corpses from the EVE lore ( http://community.eveonline.com/background/cloning/clon_02.asp ). In my mind the major use of Proteins in Dust production was for building Dropsuits. If you look closely at them, most have flexible, fabric-like components. I just appropriated the PI resource and shifted it to a more Dust-y purpose. Ok I was thinking proteins as in Amino Acid productions. Now I have another question, In developing a ward/territory, would you add infrastructure via a simple fitting mechanic or would you actually get to choose the location that a said factory can be built? For instance you have an open territory and want to place build it up. You want to place an Orbital Emplacement on a mountain to better defend it, would that be possible? Or would it be generically placed?
I think it would be cool if we could choose, but my guess is that it's WAY beyond what the tech could do anytime soon. The problem is that only certain areas in a given heightmap are smoothed out to accept the buildings ("sockets").
So, for the next few years at least, I think the only way to implement it would be to stick to CCP's socket system, which means a simple fitting mechanic. |
Cygnus 2112
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 04:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
That would be amazing. Could consoles handle that though? |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
280
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 05:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cygnus 2112 wrote:That would be amazing. Could consoles handle that though?
To the best of my knowledge, the console load would not increase. The crux of my vision is in how the battlefields are identified and how those battlefields relate to one another. That's really more a matter for Tranquility than for the console.
On the console side, it would just require a static map of the District (probably already in the works) and the ability to select different areas in the district (possibly already in the works). Of course, the map would require some kind of Show Info and a build/defend/attack interface, but that's not a huge processor load. |
Passive SP Bonus
Ongoing Renovation Endless Renaissance
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 19:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sorry if tis was asked but how does this work with the reinforcement timers that they talked about in the Foxfour thread? |
ZiwZih
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 21:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bravo Vaerana, excellent idea!
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search I'm very very unclear WHEN any of this will happen. There is such a mix out there of what CCP CAN do and what it MIGHT do and WHEN?
Yes, CCP would do the best table-top RP games if they ever do them, they create great setting, print a book and let you dream. When it comes to software it takes them years and years to shape things. But it's good and with no real alternative.
They are a special flower or a fail corp -- depends on which day you look...
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DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
269
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 21:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
This sounds amazing!!
I WANT TO PLAY THIS NOW!!! |
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