No, I'm not saying take tanks out of ambush. I'm saying if tank dirvers feel they are entitled to pull as many tanks as they want in regular ambush, fine. Give us a side version of ambush where tanks, or maybe even all vehicles, are not able to be called in.

Call it Ambush (NVS) [NVS=No Vehicle Support]

The thing I REALLY hate is all of the AV players and the vehicle pilots saying "Skill into AV and HTFU". So in order to play this game, I have to play it YOUR way, by skilling into the AV class even though playing AV holds no interest to me whatsoever? I should have to waste my SP on a class that I don't want to play because vehicle drivers are able to run rampant in CQC only maps? In EVE, is there anything you have to skill into just to take out one particular type of ship even though that one thing is nearly useless against anything but that ship?

Plenty of people have made the point that tankers should be allowed to use their tanks anywhere they want since anyone who spent their SP elsewhere can too. That's fine, just let those people who don't want to deal with tank trains in ambush play a different mode where they don't have to deal with that. Then maybe the AV players will filter into regular ambush and it will be a real AV vs Vehicle free-for-all.


This method is fair, balanced, and most importantly a good idea for new players who have not had the time to skill into anything that could even SCRATCH one of the high level tanks rolling around in ambush these days. Please give it a think over CCP.

Saying you don't want to skill Av because it holds no interest for you is like saying you won't skill secondary weapons because only Av interests you, you're setting yourself up for failure

TBH the real issue is the pub matchmaking system not taking specializations into account. It should try to balance each side both in terms of SP, and roles. Right now it's very arbitrary what kind of composition you end up with.

AV weapons are entirely different from secondary weapons, no comparison. AV is a player class, though everyone should have at least basic AV. That said, a full team of basic AV against a train of top tanks will do absolutely nothing. So, you are saying everyone should have to spec fully into AV so they can keep up with the new vehicles coming out? An assault/logi/scout player should have to spec into both heavy suits and forge guns JUST so they can handle tanks too? No, we shouldn't have to do any such thing.

Make a new game mode, the whole issue goes away.

That wouldn't stop a full squad of high-level tankers from joining a match together.

Who said anything about forge guns? Swarms work wonders and a new light av weapon is coming soon

And no using a secondary isn't different because that's an Av player's only defense from infantry

you won't skill secondary weapons because only Av interests you

Also there is a 4 vehicle max so a full av team would be 4v1

This part:



I read it wrong. I thought you were comparing the two, not expounding the importance of your sidearm when equipped with an AV weapon. You are correct in that. However, sidearms importance to AV is still not a proper comparison to AV-Main weapons. For an AV player, sure. But for those of us who specialize, AV is a waste of SP. I'd rather spend a whole match avoiding vehicles than wasting SP on it, I do it quite often and it suit me fine.

But at the same time we should have the ability to take a break from all being tank fodder for high level tanks when we want to. Getting the ground behind me razed by tank fire while I mop up infantry gets old after a while, and honestly I've been burnt out on dealing with tanks since the missile spam hell from 3+ months ago. I cannot remember the last time I went into a match and there were NO tanks whatsoever. No matter the match type, some guy always brings one in. In skirmish, I have no issue with it. In a forcibly CQC ambush however, it's stupid to force people to play with tanks on the field if they don't wish to. If someone doesn't spec AV but wants to play, they have to play skirmish to have a chance. There should be an ambush mode for them too.
Again, if you have such a prevalent problem with vehicles you're suppose to use anti vehicle weapons or just live with it, your choice
Edit: And swarms are crap against shields, and many armor tanks have some decent shield buffers as well.

Yes, except that those 16 AV players would have to deal with the other 12 NON AV players on the field to try to kill the tanks.

Sinboto= ignored

You forget that it doesn't take a full squad to bring down top tier tanks, and some of those 12 players are bound to be gunners.

12 ground units shooting at AV, plus 4 large turrets. Too much for AV to handle. If each tank has one gunner, that just means instead of using an AR they are shooting a blaster, and turret skills for everyone in the tank stack together. Yes, they might get one or even two, but this is in a hypothetical situation where EVERY ONE of the other team is running AV against top tier tanks. In the typical match you have maybe 3 at most with AV on the field. Even if they are running full proto AV, 4 top tier tanks is too much. It's not the HP or even the power of the turrets, but the hardners as well. a swarm on a shield tank with it's hardners activated, even a full proto swarm with 3 complex mods, isn't going to make a huge dent in the shields of a top tier shield tank with it's hardners on. Hell, I have a Soma that can take 5 swarm volleys when it's hardners are active.

The thing I REALLY hate is all of the AV players and the vehicle pilots saying "Skill into AV and HTFU". So in order to play this game, I have to play it YOUR way, by skilling into the AV class even though playing AV holds no interest to me whatsoever? I should have to waste my SP on a class that I don't want to play because vehicle drivers are able to run rampant in CQC only maps? In EVE, is there anything you have to skill into just to take out one particular type of ship even though that one thing is nearly useless against anything but that ship?

I kill tanks in ambush without SP, your post is invalid.

sure you do, militia maybe, two upper tier tanks or proto's without organized squad with sp'd av fits, highly unlikely.

team work + militia swarmers can kill spec'd HAV especially armour HAV, but alone they not so good.

biggest problem people hav is they use wrong weaponry against tanks, AV nades and swarmers kill a spec'd Madruger in a few seconds easy whereas against shield tanks they dont do much however Flux nades and Forge gun kill them very fast.

if people want to bring HAVs into game the only thing that should stop them is the enemy and not AR assaults who complain about everything, even exploits they're using (stacking damage mods).

if you want ambush without HAVs then kill all opposing HAVs.

oh and if its fair to ban tanks from ambush isnt it also fair to ban all custom drop suits and aquired skills? afterall thats what your trying to do to tankers.

No, I'm trying to make a new ambush mode. Where tanks are not allowed. They can still play ambush. Totally read my OP wrong.

This isn't call of duty, learn to play, HTFU, if you dont like vehicles skill into AV, if you dont want to skill into AV, keep away from vehicles, or get in a squad with someone who can AV, this is a team game so as long as a few of the people you are with can AV you should be fine, but we shouldn't be removing tanks from any games

no...i red it correct then thought about it... ALL INFANTRY would play this as its easier for them as it suits their specialisations leaving only tankers and AV specs on ambush.

AV specs will kill tanks causing them to quit (afterall AV kills HAV easily so 16 AVs will insta kill ANY tank)

so ambush will b obsolete therefore leaving only ambush without tanks... i just skipped ahead a week and this thought process in other posts.

Last time, I'm not suggesting we remove tanks. L2READ


So letting players play without tanks in the match is unfair to tankers? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You'd have people who can handle playing AV in matches with other AV players, and you'd have people who are anti AV and vehicle drivers playing together. It would be perfect training for protecting/attacking vehicles in corp battles.

Last time, I'm not suggesting we remove tanks. L2READ

[quote=Bruce3 Wayne3]
no it wouldn't as its seperation of specialisation... it would create more problems then it solves... their should be no seperation afterall this is just how everything starts to go wrong for the seperated.


if you or any1 else has problems with tanks than nut up or shut up (well shut up about segregation)
INFANTRY>AV>HAV>INFANTRY just because you cant do everything as a AR assault doesnt mean what you cant kill is OP.

A) I'm not an AR assault, I merely use it as an example in most cases since most people can relate to it.

B) AV=HAV. HAV can kill AV far easier than AV can kill HAV. Equal skilled AV player will keep an equal skilled HAV on the run. Unless that HAV has skilled gunners on it's small turrets, then the HAV has 2 potentially very powerful turrets able to keep an eye on 360 degrees around the tank with an additional set of eyes to the front. With the right skills, a small turret can be more powerful than any AR since the turret skills of everyone in the vehicle stack together. It's all circumstantial, but 1 equal skilled AV=1 equal skilled HAV. 2 ok AV=1 good HAV. 3 ok AV=1 GREAT HAV. But when you have a team of 5 ok AV and 3 good HAV's, there's nothing to do but leave the match or take a beating, which is not fair to the non-AV players.

C) There seems to be some misconception here. I have no real issue with tanks, I almost NEVER have no means of getting clear of them. However I can clearly see how people are having issue with them being able to call in so many in random spawning CQC matches. It's going end up in either tanks getting nerfed, tank limits in matches being reduced, or an alternate mode put in if things keep up the way they have been. I'm pointing to the method I think would be best for the community considering the issue, though honestly tankers themselves could keep anything from happening if they could just control themselves and not grief people by driving tank trains through that tiny Manus Peak ambush map.

D) Separation of specialization to an extent. Tank drivers can still run tankless matches, they just can't run their tanks. Just like OMS has off map support, this ambush wouldn't have RDV support. This would also be a good place for those QQers who whine about getting run over by LAV's.

AV has longer range than HAV AV > HAV
small turres are useless vs AV unless its operator jumps out of HAV and kills them.

5 ok AV scare gd drivers and kill bad 1s.
against 5 HAV 8 AV will always win (happened to me earlier, out of 5 simultaneous fielded tanks only 1 survived after 3 mins)

SEGREGATION doesnt help anything


out of curiosity what is your experience with HAV?

No, I'm not saying take tanks out of ambush. I'm saying if tank dirvers feel they are entitled to pull as many tanks as they want in regular ambush, fine. Give us a side version of ambush where tanks, or maybe even all vehicles, are not able to be called in.

Call it Ambush (NVS) [NVS=No Vehicle Support]

The thing I REALLY hate is all of the AV players and the vehicle pilots saying "Skill into AV and HTFU". So in order to play this game, I have to play it YOUR way, by skilling into the AV class even though playing AV holds no interest to me whatsoever? I should have to waste my SP on a class that I don't want to play because vehicle drivers are able to run rampant in CQC only maps? In EVE, is there anything you have to skill into just to take out one particular type of ship even though that one thing is nearly useless against anything but that ship?

Plenty of people have made the point that tankers should be allowed to use their tanks anywhere they want since anyone who spent their SP elsewhere can too. That's fine, just let those people who don't want to deal with tank trains in ambush play a different mode where they don't have to deal with that. Then maybe the AV players will filter into regular ambush and it will be a real AV vs Vehicle free-for-all.


This method is fair, balanced, and most importantly a good idea for new players who have not had the time to skill into anything that could even SCRATCH one of the high level tanks rolling around in ambush these days. Please give it a think over CCP.

what's next.
Ambush (NES) No Equipment Slots
Ambush (KO) Knives Only
Ambush (PO) Pistols Only
Ambush (ARO) Assault Rifles Only


these threads are dumb.

These threads are not dumb....That is really ridiculous? It was a great idea? Whats your problem how will it affect you. Thousands will still play the same modes this is just a mode to alleviate all the NOOBS u keep tanking ;) tanking is a great way to KEEP ppl away from our game as well (when used too much against noobs)

Get Dusted son.

Tanks just need a better hard counter. Add real Heavy Tanks. They decimate smaller tanks but their size, turn speed, and large gun limits their effectiveness against infantry. Solves the problem for infantry and gives tankers more toys.

Personally I'm not going to say take tanks out of ambush - cause I'm all about choice and the entire point of this game is to balance out risk and reward. What I don't get is why are people calling out tanks or dropships in an ambush in the first place. As mercenary I'm all about making money - making a profit. So basically you don't make any money, if your tank/dropship gets dropped - in fact you've lost money and quite a bit of ISK too. Last night I was in a match where I saw three tanks go down from the other side. Now I'm guessing that they were all part of the same corp and that is a significant lost of funds. I'd be furious to see people are taking tanks out only to get dropped for nothing - it's a common ambush there's nothing to gain out of it except ISK and SP. You're not taking over anything if you win - where that would justify losing a tank or other ship. So you've put up such a huge amount of risk for very little (if anything) of a reward. Most of the time I see a tank roll out I try to keep track of where they are and avoid them. I'm not AV, I'm Logi...so my chance against most vehicles is very slim, occasionally I'll run out with AV grenades, but not that often.

Tanks just need a better hard counter. Add real Heavy Tanks. They decimate smaller tanks but their size, turn speed, and large gun limits their effectiveness against infantry. Solves the problem for infantry and gives tankers more toys.

I help lead a tank squad on both ambush and skirmish, and I do not see how tanks could possibly be OP.
Indeed they are powerful, but also the most expensive items on the market. Neatly, you could always grab your own tank, forge gun, AV grenades, Swarmer Launchers, or your friendly neighborhood orbital strike to destroy a tank. My squad works as a team, 3-4 tanks as a team can cause quite some damage, but so can a well organized AV squad. We do ambush for getting lots of quick kills, sp, and isk because players hardly use the teamwork to kill 3-4 tanks at once -áand because tanks are so expensive. We also like to take a break from all the planning and organizing and seriousness
-áand just have a blast while getting paid in the process. Dust did say "Tanks are the backbone of any ground force."-á