Now the gazillion ISK question;- How could you do something so amazing with Eve and **** **** up with Dust?

Short answer?

Close to 10 years of development and still counting...

Now the gazillion ISK question;- How could you do something so amazing with Eve and **** **** up with Dust?

I wasn't around for EVE in 2003 when it was first released, but from the conversations I've had with people who were and screenshots I've seen from that era it wasn't anywhere near as smooth or polished as it is today. Making a game with that degree of customization and capability is a difficult and time consuming process. DUST will get there some day, too.

Did you ask that 10 years ago?

Welp! I have never played Eve untill last night and this is what I have to say;-

If you have a game like Eve which is your staple, you better live up to the expectations set by that game. After playing Eve for just 1 day I already see so many things in Eve that I would like to see in Dust. You dont create a high par product and then pub a really sub par product on the market.

If anything the gameplay in Dust should be as smooth as the gameplay in Eve.

As long as they dont remove AFK farming I am cool with everything. Hopefully I will be ready soon enough to drop them OBS on them QQers.

Eve and dust are two entirely different monsters.

And like you said you bought a sexy pc to play it.

Dust doesntbhave the luxury of an easily upgradeable platform and is stuck at one levl.

Im going to assume coding for a shooter is vastly different than coding for strategic internet spaceships.

Especially in controls and hit mechanics.

If you notice the fitting market and skill mechanics system all woek pretty well... partz of the game that easily transfer over from eve.

Give them time and experience im willing to bet it will be amazing.

Ohh hoo hoo hoo

This is how eve started:

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/EVEHistory/2000.06_Orion.jpg
2 Factions Caldari and Amarr
6 Ships
90 Star systems

(btw legacy code from this era is still haunting eve today, they've called in ghost busters to clean up one piece safely at a time.)

Again what does things 10 years ago has to do with now. I mean I still play Contra but it has no meaning or bearing on Eve/Dust.

It comes down to 2 things;-

Eve gameplay = Awesome
Dust gameplay = Crappy

Eve = CCP
Dust = CCP

Same Devs! Products that are eons apart.

I was just pointing out there is a great difference in starts though.

Ultimately we're doing pretty good in the beta, while most other developers would call this an alpha. CCP alpha's are more of a 'can we do this?' sort of software. For example there is a CCP alpha going around on tour on new avatar based game play of exploring abandoned stations having to balance between oxygen, radiation, puzzles, and loot. CCP touts it around shows the executives before getting green lighted to replace some extraordinarily awful graphics, and clunky design with everything a game should fully deserve eventually.

Sentient, make sure you drop by "Dust OB" with you Eve toon. You need to be in a milita to do OBs and they happen in Low-sec space. Would be happy to fill you in on more of the Eve-side details.

I whole heartedly agree with you. The baseline for Dust should be Eve. Eve gameplay should be the foundation of Dust gameplay and built upon that.



I dont think we are doing pretty good or for that matter good at all in the beta. For starters the gameplay itself is so bad. Its too clunky and the flow of controls is horribad. Straffing was nerfed to counter the hit detection bug and both are not fixed. Matching in pathetic. You either get redlined or red the enemy.

We played a pub match where they put the Imperfects and Red Star on the same team. Our team lost only 20 clones and we cloned out 150 clones of the enemy. And we went up against some really good corps. That was a boring match. And thats what is becoming of all pub matches now. Why would you even put high skill players on the same side?

CCP has had over a year for fix some of these basics. Not done yet!

as a eve player of 4 years i have watched eve evole into what it has become. i see dust and i can feel eve in it. to me it actully feels like a faster paced version of eve.

that being said ive seen ups and downs for ccp and i know this game is only going to get better with time. i never expected a finished product from dust even when it hits open beta. you need to change the way you think. ccp doesnt have finished products eve isnt finished. some of the things they are adding to eve are things they have wanted to do for years.

dont expect dust to be any different it will never be finished it will always change.

Let's not forget that Eve players pay (in one form or another) $14 per month for each account, on top of the 10+ years in constant development. You think anyone in the CCP Accounting Dept has ulcers from watching Dust unfold?

Now the gazillion ISK question;- How could you do something so amazing with Eve and **** **** up with Dust?

Just walk away from Dust now and come back in 10 years, it will blow your mind out as Eve just did with all its complexity.

Sorry. This is not an option. As I told CCP before and I am telling you;- competetive FPS is a whole different beast. If you havent game battled or something equivalent you wont know what I am talking about. Leaving Dust with no catch up system in place if just going to mean other people who stick one will be ahead of me. You may not understand it but every single SP/advantage counts. The 1 extra SP, 1 extra shield, that 25% increase in reload speed counts.

You either give Dusters the option to catch up or make the game fun. No 2 ways about it in FPS!

Sentient Archon I will say this to you.

Stay with dust a short while, you'll see something amazing happen. I experienced it in eve, watching an mmo grow and become refined, it was not like most other expansions like world of warcraft, it really felt like the game was evolving.

Dust 514 will evolve and we got front row seats. One day, 10 years from now you can tell dust players on how we only had 4 suit classes 4 guns, 2 tanks, and 3 maps.

So in the end, get better, stop s*cking, kill efficiently.

bro your gaming rig is waaaay OP for eve lol

LOL. Do you even check a players stat before you tell them to get better or stop sucking or kill efficiently?

Go check my stats up sonny boy. And as far gaming is concerned I have seen it and done it all. 8080, 8088, XTs, ATs;- seen it all.

That however is far far away from why Dust is Eons away from Eve.

I checked your stats before hand and still posted it, your KDR only shows me that you don't die allot. It doesn't say if its because you are playing with a dedicated squad, hiding in a tank are redline sniping, or switching of your PS3 if something happens out of your control.

Ive not seen you on any battle myself but if we ever do, the only thing i can go by is your QQ about getting behind on the SP curve.

I checked your stats before hand and still posted it, your KDR only shows me that you don't die allot. It doesn't say if its because you are playing with a dedicated squad, hiding in a tank are redline sniping, or switching of your PS3 if something happens out of your control.

Ive not seen you on any battle myself but if we ever do, the only thing i can go by is your QQ about getting behind on the SP curve.

Again what does things 10 years ago has to do with now. I mean I still play Contra but it has no meaning or bearing on Eve/Dust.

It comes down to 2 things;-

Eve gameplay = Awesome
Dust gameplay = Crappy

Eve = CCP
Dust = CCP

Same Devs! Products that are eons apart.

*Sigh* Yet more people assuming they know everything there is to know about developing a genre-breaking FPS.

Assumptions is the mother of all **** ups. Hence I dont assume if that post was directed towards me.

Anyone who knows everything is a fool!

And although I may not know "everything" about developing a genre-breaking FPS I know enough to get me job offers from EA Games and EA Sports out here.

You cannot make a world-class bottle of wine, and then be expected to build your own high-performance sports car as well.

Lamborghini actually did it. Dont believe me! Check it out yourself!

Kingfisher in India did something similar.

But what do I know.

And I'm sure they managed to do it perfectly the first time, because they were already so good at making cars.

There are more stats than KD you know. There is WL, WP and Corp Wins.

you are playing with a dedicated squad : Guilty and not Guilty
redline sniping : Guilty and not Guilty

switching of your PS3 if something happens out of your control : Shows you know nothing about competetive gaming. You dont win games by switching off your PS3 LOL!

The only way you will ever know is if you see me ingame

Edit: My QQ is about the game being more fun because contrary to popular belief I actually like this game a lot. And about getting ahead of the curve I am 5 mil SP and way ahead of most of y'all right now.

Now you are just arguing for the sake of it instead of discussing it. Only idiots argue. Im done with you. Unless you have anything more meaningful than just being a CCP fanboy let me know and we can discuss this futher.

He Arch maybe that dude up there needs to be shown your game. Set up a CB with him and his corp. so we can kill him for downing our Director. That dude has to die, i do believe it will be wonderfull to redline them, Dont you.

Dusters lack patience and I am guilty of the same. ... Maybe Eve can train me to be patient.

That it will.

Skill up in mining. Now THERE is patience.

To address your initial point, the two games are also based on different engines. EVE is based on Carbon (CCP's in-house engine) and Dust is based on Unreal.

I have heard (not confirmed) that early Dust plans were to use Carbon because it had a lot of the stuff already built in and they knew how it worked. Once they realized that the available consoles couldn't handle it, they switched to Unreal and that set the development of many of the features back.

In order to get around this, CCP opened a completely new development office in Shanghai (so not the same devs) to allow those people to focus on Dust without impacting EVE development. My guess is that a lot of the FPS basics worked just fine in-house, even on PS3 hardware.

Once they connected to Singularity, which was optimized for Carbon- all hell broke loose. Suddenly, things that worked fine in-house lagged, misapplied, etc. They spent most of a year fixing that (and killed Skirmish 1.0 in the process).

Once that seemed pretty stable, they ported it over to the big gun- Tranquility. TQ is a much larger server cluster, so they figured that with things mostly optimized on Sisi, moving to TQ would bring MOAR POWER (sorry, Tim Allen) to the party. Unfortunately, TQ is also a much more complex environment that is tied into things like 3,000 ship space battles.

They can Time Dilate space battles, but not FPS action. That must've created a whole other batch of headaches.

Meanwhile, the accountants are tapping CCP's senior management on the back, glaring at them, and saying "You told us this would be making money six months ago!"

I absolutely feel your pain, Mr. Archon. I really want Dust to be the game that they told us about. Maybe it's all those years of mining Veldspar talking, but I feel like they are doing pretty good for building the most complicated MMOFPSRPG ever attempted. If they had just made an FPS without any of the EVE tie-ins, it would probably be a lot smoother by now.

Actually Dust has been in Development for 3 years give or take and still the basics of a FPS are not covered. In Eve the basic gameplay is mindblowing. Thats just me day 1 on Eve. How many people on Dust can say that?

By this logic then Eve has been around/in development for 15 years as I think I was in beta for Eve back in 2000-2001 and had been watching the game for about a year before that, making Eve and all of its polish older then some of the people playing the big brother to this game.

There are more stats than KD you know. There is WL, WP and Corp Wins.

you are playing with a dedicated squad : Guilty and not Guilty
redline sniping : Guilty and not Guilty

switching of your PS3 if something happens out of your control : Shows you know nothing about competetive gaming. You dont win games by switching off your PS3 LOL!Lol

The only way you will ever know is if you see me ingame Lol

Edit: My QQ is about the game being more fun because contrary to popular belief I actually like this game a lot. And about getting ahead of the curve I am 5 mil SP and way ahead of most of y'all right now.

So after being trolled in Dust and then returning the favor to my fellow dusters, I decided to try out Eve. My reason for doing so;- is to make those QQers QQ more by dropping a **** load of OBS on them. I didnt know what to do and didnt have a clue about how to go about it. A friendly post and some nice replies from my fellow Eve pilots I decided to take the plunge.

Equipment: Alienware with 32 GB of RAM and 6 I7 Processors at 3400 GHz. So I bought a PC just for Dust. It cost me a little over $2200 with insurance but imma write it off a business expense . So there ya go ya QQers who complained about you buying a PS3 just for Dust and it being boring;- for a Duster to get into Eve its more expensive.

So I downloaded the game and installed it in a couple of hours. I created my account and logged in and started playing!

Observations:

Eve is ******* mind blowing! I mean the level of customizations I can do after just day 1 is truely amazing! And thanks to AFK farming I could get all the SP I needed in Dust and complete my missions in Eve at the same time. The things you can do and the places you can go is truely amazing. The graphics are so smooth. They actually have a rookie channel where fellow Eve pilots actually try to help the pilots. Watch out for scams though. I already got challenged to a duel on my very first day .

Progression in Eve is slow as ****. However thats a good thing. Skill training is time based and you cannot rush into anything.

I actually declined a mission because I had to train a **** load of stuff before I could do that and the AI agent actually gave me attitude LOL.

All in all Eve is phenominal. Thumbs up CCP for Eve!

Now the gazillion ISK question;- How could you do something so amazing with Eve and **** **** up with Dust?

Actually Dust has been in Development for 3 years give or take and still the basics of a FPS are not covered. In Eve the basic gameplay is mindblowing. Thats just me day 1 on Eve. How many people on Dust can say that?

Example of a good on-topic reply to the OP, not resorting to petty insults for no reason.

Opposite of the above in every single way + trolling

So after being trolled in Dust and then returning the favor to my fellow dusters, I decided to try out Eve. My reason for doing so;- is to make those QQers QQ more by dropping a **** load of OBS on them. I didnt know what to do and didnt have a clue about how to go about it. A friendly post and some nice replies from my fellow Eve pilots I decided to take the plunge.

Equipment: Alienware with 32 GB of RAM and 6 I7 Processors at 3400 GHz. So I bought a PC just for Dust. It cost me a little over $2200 with insurance but imma write it off a business expense . So there ya go ya QQers who complained about you buying a PS3 just for Dust and it being boring;- for a Duster to get into Eve its more expensive.

So I downloaded the game and installed it in a couple of hours. I created my account and logged in and started playing!

Observations:

Eve is ******* mind blowing! I mean the level of customizations I can do after just day 1 is truely amazing! And thanks to AFK farming I could get all the SP I needed in Dust and complete my missions in Eve at the same time. The things you can do and the places you can go is truely amazing. The graphics are so smooth. They actually have a rookie channel where fellow Eve pilots actually try to help the pilots. Watch out for scams though. I already got challenged to a duel on my very first day .

Progression in Eve is slow as ****. However thats a good thing. Skill training is time based and you cannot rush into anything.

I actually declined a mission because I had to train a **** load of stuff before I could do that and the AI agent actually gave me attitude LOL.

All in all Eve is phenominal. Thumbs up CCP for Eve!

Now the gazillion ISK question;- How could you do something so amazing with Eve and **** **** up with Dust?

Equipment: Alienware with 32 GB of RAM and 6 I7 Processors at 3400 GHz. So I bought a PC just for Dust. It cost me a little over $2200 with insurance but imma write it off a business expense . So there ya go ya QQers who complained about you buying a PS3 just for Dust and it being boring;- for a Duster to get into Eve its more expensive.

Also who managed to derail this troll post into KDR debate?

Let me remind you the flamebaits were forking serious cash (as if 2k is serious) into a computer, afk farming, and dust being bad. Get back on tracks folks.

Still in the womb and already crying *-*

Again what does things 10 years ago has to do with now. I mean I still play Contra but it has no meaning or bearing on Eve/Dust.

It comes down to 2 things;-

Eve gameplay = Awesome
Dust gameplay = Crappy

Eve = CCP
Dust = CCP

Same Devs! Products that are eons apart.

Past is past. Let it remain buried. People who dwell in the past are just dooming their future. I couldnt give a rats ass about things 10 years ago. I only care about now.

Your logic of how things were done 10 years ago is absolutely illogical. Things change over 10 years. If CCP has any sort of code and config management they will know how not to use code that does not work and use code that works.

So after being trolled in Dust and then returning the favor to my fellow dusters, I decided to try out Eve. My reason for doing so;- is to make those QQers QQ more by dropping a **** load of OBS on them. I didnt know what to do and didnt have a clue about how to go about it. A friendly post and some nice replies from my fellow Eve pilots I decided to take the plunge.

Equipment: Alienware with 32 GB of RAM and 6 I7 Processors at 3400 GHz. So I bought a PC just for Dust. It cost me a little over $2200 with insurance but imma write it off a business expense . So there ya go ya QQers who complained about you buying a PS3 just for Dust and it being boring;- for a Duster to get into Eve its more expensive.

So I downloaded the game and installed it in a couple of hours. I created my account and logged in and started playing!

Observations:

Eve is ******* mind blowing! I mean the level of customizations I can do after just day 1 is truely amazing! And thanks to AFK farming I could get all the SP I needed in Dust and complete my missions in Eve at the same time. The things you can do and the places you can go is truely amazing. The graphics are so smooth. They actually have a rookie channel where fellow Eve pilots actually try to help the pilots. Watch out for scams though. I already got challenged to a duel on my very first day .

Progression in Eve is slow as ****. However thats a good thing. Skill training is time based and you cannot rush into anything.

I actually declined a mission because I had to train a **** load of stuff before I could do that and the AI agent actually gave me attitude LOL.

All in all Eve is phenominal. Thumbs up CCP for Eve!

Now the gazillion ISK question;- How could you do something so amazing with Eve and **** **** up with Dust?

Sorry. This is not an option. As I told CCP before and I am telling you;- competetive FPS is a whole different beast. If you havent game battled or something equivalent you wont know what I am talking about. Leaving Dust with no catch up system in place if just going to mean other people who stick one will be ahead of me. You may not understand it but every single SP/advantage counts. The 1 extra SP, 1 extra shield, that 25% increase in reload speed counts.

You either give Dusters the option to catch up or make the game fun. No 2 ways about it in FPS!

To all those who trolled my post;- see ya in space when I drop an OBS on your face Lol

Past is past. Let it remain buried. People who dwell in the past are just dooming their future. I couldnt give a rats ass about things 10 years ago. I only care about now.

Your logic of how things were done 10 years ago is absolutely illogical. Things change over 10 years. If CCP has any sort of code and config management they will know how not to use code that does not work and use code that works.

Its going to be a while before you can navigate low sec :p

Again what does things 10 years ago has to do with now. I mean I still play Contra but it has no meaning or bearing on Eve/Dust.

It comes down to 2 things;-

Eve gameplay = Awesome
Dust gameplay = Crappy

Eve = CCP
Dust = CCP

Same Devs! Products that are eons apart.

It will be enough time before Dust goes live. Meanwhile if you ever do decide to climb out of your hole and stop being a whimp let me know and we can schedule a corp battle. High Stakes. 20 Million ISK. I will put the money up from my personal wallet.

What i'm waiting for is the EVE core engine rewrite - when that gets done the result will be truly mindblowing - and at that point, i'm betting that EVE + PS4 DUST 514 will see our Viking developers, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, treading the jeweled thrones of the MMO and the FPS worlds under their sandaled feet. =)

I feel like the fact that EVE is amazing is one of the reasons DUST isn't (yet).

If you started from scratch and picked up a team to make a shooter, you'd probably pick a very different development team. You'd probably start out with very different ideas about what you're trying to build. You'd probably be much better at the things people are expecting you to be good at right away. And in the end, you'd probably make a forgettable shooter that disappears after a couple years. At best, you'd make a Team Fortress or a MAG. But it wouldn't be anything revolutionary or truly lasting.

But we're starting with people who have a lot of experience developing one really amazing thing over a very long timeline. Unless I'm mistaken, this is only the second time CCP has ever done a new release (although individual developers must have worked on other projects). And their last release was a game nothing like this. Hit detection? EVE just needs to make a bunch of calculations and then animate the result. There's no such thing as hit detection. They don't even need to have tight synchronization. If somebody changes course and it takes half a second for you to see it, that won't change the outcome of an encounter nearly as much as it might in an FPS.

And then, even if you hire people who understand FPS-specific issues (which I'm sure they did), the fact that you're trying to put these two games on the same server means you're dealing with traditional problems in a non-traditional environment. If my experience in R&D holds, that fact alone makes it far more challenging to, for example, "just fix hit detection" on this game than it would be on a dedicated FPS.

I expect the initial development process to take a lot longer with CCP than it would with a seasoned FPS developer. And I expect it to require some patience, as they have very little experience communicating and managing expectations around a console game, an FPS, or really any completely new product. But I expect the outcome to be totally unique, totally spectacular, and totally worthwhile.