Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Darkstar Matari
MoG Militia
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Ares Lawrens wrote:I was wondering if I could appoint an EVE player as Director in my corp or if that feature has not yet been implemented. Yes you can appoint EVE players as director, just make sure you trust them because it gives them a lot of access. Ares Lawrens wrote:I also wanted to know if there will ever be a feature to tax and pay corp members in Dust We have been discussing this internally. Would players be interested in corporation tax? What tax rate would you set? Should we add a tax to the NPC corporations to encourage players into player corps? Theses are the kind of questions being asked, and I would love to hear your feedback on them.
Yes, I would definitely love a tax system, tbh I was surprised when it was not there. Personally I would look at around 5-10%, pretty standard tax amount. Any sort of 'income gap' would be taken care of by a % tax, it's still (for example) 10% if you earn 200k or 200 mill.
People will expect their corp, being eve or dust side, to pay for certain assets so they can do Corp Battles, or at least make them more interesting. This should be payed for by corp taxes, so everyone in the corp is contributing.
I personally think their should be NPC Corp tax, so people get used to taxes immediately, instead of having them forced on them when they join a Player Corp. This also allows for the emergent gameplay, of tax evasion corps. Pure EvE style. Something I always found amusing, tbh.
Being a CEO, I have in the past (in eve) come across plenty of people who don't want to pay taxes, but expect the world from their corps. I had one bloke who insisted he absolutely hated playing taxes, yet expected use of the Corp POS. Yeah... no. Lol.
Maybe I am an ******** CEO, but the way I see it, the corp shouldn't have to pay for the world if the members aren't willing to contribute. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
205
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
DONT TAX THE NPC!!!!
there are too many 1 man corps as it is! That isnt healthy. Peeps will make their own corps and not interact with anyone. Put chat on auto for corp, make them realize there are talking peeps out there and have them band together in their own time. |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
199
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
For a mission running corp or a mining corp taxes might initially seem like charity to a new player in Eve. I'll get to how it *may* work for un-implemented features of Dust.
Many Eve corps eventually have corp assets like research and manufacturing POSes that need to be both bought and maintained, both with market resources and labor. If a member wants to use or in any way benefit from those assets, they need to be paid for by those using them or benefitting from them. Taxes. Wars come and defenses need to be mounted, or mercenaries hired. Taxes.
In any working environment, you are expected to bring the basics with you. For simplicity, let's call the basics a pair of boots and willingness to do the job. After that, it is expected that the employer foot the bill for any advanced materials and training.
In Dust, would you expect your army to fund themselves? If not, where does your corp get the money to keep fighting? From the CEOs personal wallet? Dust promises to those armies conquerable territories that can be upgraded for both defense and material productivity. Direct conflict to gain and hold those assets cost money. Where exactly do you expect that money to come from? Lemme guess, I dunno, so long as it ain't me. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Ares Lawrens wrote:I was wondering if I could appoint an EVE player as Director in my corp or if that feature has not yet been implemented. We have been discussing this internally. Would players be interested in corporation tax? What tax rate would you set? Should we add a tax to the NPC corporations to encourage players into player corps? Theses are the kind of questions being asked, and I would love to hear your feedback on them.
if it's the same as eve (where only bounties are due taxes) then i would set the tax rate at 95%. i don't want my corp fighting rats.
|
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
218
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
yes on all counts to corp tax yes to the amount too. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
218
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
or if you would prefer I would rather lose a percentage of my earnings then rely on trickle down economics(It doesn't work). |
Kray Dytt
THE DOLLARS
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Ares Lawrens wrote:I was wondering if I could appoint an EVE player as Director in my corp or if that feature has not yet been implemented. Yes you can appoint EVE players as director, just make sure you trust them because it gives them a lot of access. Ares Lawrens wrote:I also wanted to know if there will ever be a feature to tax and pay corp members in Dust We have been discussing this internally. Would players be interested in corporation tax? What tax rate would you set? Should we add a tax to the NPC corporations to encourage players into player corps? Theses are the kind of questions being asked, and I would love to hear your feedback on them.
A system allowing for tax/pay set by the Corp: Yes. Possible options: flat tax/pay (daily/weekly/monthly) and flexible tax/pay (based for instance on the number of corp matches played, equipment used in corp matches, etc.)
Tax in NPC corps: No, wouldn't do that. If someone doesn't want to join a player corps, then "forcing" them to is not going to make anyone happy. Would probably just cause a lot of "empty shell" or single player corps. |
gobbybobbyy
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
NPC corps in eve have like 11%~ tax. This should be the same in Dust
But Player corps should be able to set both EVE and DUST tax separately, if they want to.
|
Guilbert 515
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 10:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tax sounds cool. I wouldnt mind paying tax to my corp once they have the ability to supply me with the equipment i require to do my job. But then they also need the ability to produce equipments and so on.
But before implementing it, i think it would require loot drops to increase on the level of the equipment you loose, In order to balance it out, giving the possibility to create income on both sides the corp and the individual.
That again would require NPC missions where an individual can generate income for the corp and aquire some loot which he can sell of on the market or use himself.
Right now the vision that a player actually receives likewise or advance gear he actually uses in a battle when winning is not really the case. And one cant even sell of the goods that he doesnt need or trade it with goods that actually pay off for the loss.
|
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 12:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:We have been discussing this internally. Would players be interested in corporation tax? What tax rate would you set? Should we add a tax to the NPC corporations to encourage players into player corps?
Theses are the kind of questions being asked, and I would love to hear your feedback on them.
I'd say put the NPC-corp tax on the todo list, but wait with enabling it for a couple years.
There's quite a bit of 'stuff' that we EVE players are willing to live with, and even see the larger benefit of, however players from other gaming communities might feel somewhat snubbed by such a tax. This will not be such a factor later when DUST is a more established game. |
|
Yosef Autaal
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
22
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 12:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Taxes should be seperate for dusters and capsuleers, reason is there are corps out there who use taxes to encourage (force) group operations i.e. setting corps tax to 100% while there is CTA so no one is ignoring it and ratting in a corner hiding away pretending to be afk..
If you make Dust and Eve share same tax it will make these sort of operations difficult and make one side suffer when they cant participate in first place, obviously some people will say that corps who do these practises should find another way to encourage CTAs and such activites but thats not what this is about individuals should make there own polices using what is available to them and giving corps the option (default as same tax but corps can change to charge different taxes).
NPC corps should always tax players else why would they ever be encouraged to leave, the NPC tax should be higher then the average tax of player corps so encourage people to move out the npc.
Final note: if CCP does allow corps to set different taxes for dusters and eve pilots why not take it further and give corps the option to tax different income types i.e. a corp who wants to encourage its members to do industry has a 5% tax on industrial activites and a 15% tax on ratting.
|
Monkxx
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 12:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Give the CEO tools to set up taxes as he wants. Do not restrict the tax possibilities to only couple of things. I thought New Eden was all about choices we can make. |
3 bird
DUST University Ivy League
90
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 12:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
YES
Tax as % of income AND Tax as monthly/weekly lump sum. Give the option for one or the other to allow different corp styles. Some prefer % rate, some prefer the idea of having a monthly/weekly fee for being a corp member.
As for NPC corp taxes YES If anything id say stick it around the 10% mark, high enough to be a substantial loss in tax and motivate people to move into player corps not so high that people who don't want to join a player run corps cant swallow the pill, but NPC corps should not be a tax haven. |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 12:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Ares Lawrens wrote:I was wondering if I could appoint an EVE player as Director in my corp or if that feature has not yet been implemented. Yes you can appoint EVE players as director, just make sure you trust them because it gives them a lot of access. Ares Lawrens wrote:I also wanted to know if there will ever be a feature to tax and pay corp members in Dust We have been discussing this internally. Would players be interested in corporation tax? What tax rate would you set? Should we add a tax to the NPC corporations to encourage players into player corps? Theses are the kind of questions being asked, and I would love to hear your feedback on them.
yes yes yes yes... please implement taxes just like in eve as well as a better way for corps to pay mercs from corp battles. right now to pay your mercs is a very tedious affair requiring spreadsheets and sending money individually to each member from the corp wallet which is hard when you have large corp. |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
955
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 13:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
3 bird wrote:YES
Tax as % of income AND Tax as monthly/weekly lump sum. Give the option for one or the other to allow different corp styles. Some prefer % rate, some prefer the idea of having a monthly/weekly fee for being a corp member.
As for NPC corp taxes YES If anything id say stick it around the 10% mark, high enough to be a substantial loss in tax and motivate people to move into player corps not so high that people who don't want to join a player run corps cant swallow the pill, but NPC corps should not be a tax haven.
The weekly lump sums are tough to do because what if it puts the users wallet into the negative? |
|
|
ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
136
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 13:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
A corp tax is s good idea, however until there's a working market/hangar that actually allows a corporation to purchase/provide items to the merc it feels kinda useless except for "stealing" money from the mercenary.
/c |
|
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 13:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:3 bird wrote:YES
Tax as % of income AND Tax as monthly/weekly lump sum. Give the option for one or the other to allow different corp styles. Some prefer % rate, some prefer the idea of having a monthly/weekly fee for being a corp member.
As for NPC corp taxes YES If anything id say stick it around the 10% mark, high enough to be a substantial loss in tax and motivate people to move into player corps not so high that people who don't want to join a player run corps cant swallow the pill, but NPC corps should not be a tax haven. The weekly lump sums are tough to do because what if it puts the users wallet into the negative?
then the corp ceo gets a notice that it failed and they can either choose to ignore it or whatever
i think the weekly sum is a good idea but if not possible to do then not absolutely necessary |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
329
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 13:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
I run a corp with well over 700 people in it. Dozens of emails warning me that dudes are poor is *just* what I was looking for. |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 14:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:I run a corp with well over 700 people in it. Dozens of emails warning me that dudes are poor is *just* what I was looking for.
yep i agree i wouldnr really use the set weekly amount i would use the percentage myself for my corp but can see the benefit of it for other corps and liukely the ones who would use trhat method would be smaller anyway.... but again was just suggesting a way to handle a failure of payment
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 15:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
All taxes should be taken straight off the top, all other methods should be disregarded. Rat bounties get taxed straight off the top, all things that can/will be taxed, should be taxed straight off the top.
A thought that I had while reading about corps using taxes as a CTA-leash: Why not allow us to tax different activities individually? Manufacturing tax, merc tax, PI tax, ratting tax, sales tax etc; give us the ability to tax each income generating activity individually. Beyond that, why not give us the ability to assign a Wallet Division to each corp member? I am not talking about giving them access to it with roles or titles, I am talking about assigning which wallet division their taxes are deposited into. Another thought that occurs is to allow us to assign a Wallet Division to activities as a whole. For example, all rat taxes go into the Military Wallet Division, all sales taxes go into the Sales Wallet Division and so on. Each Wallet Division could then have a flat general tax on its income which would then be deposited into the Master Wallet. |
|
boba's fetta
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Gathering Of Nomadic Explorers
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:We would likely do it as a percentage of ISK earned for each battle, and even show it on the end of battle screen. this is the way to go. prevents corps bank rupting players who dont play all the time. |
Odayian Dust Bunny
One-Armed Bandits Orbital Rights
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tax can go multiple ways, just like in EVE. Honestly, if the player doesn't like it, they can leave. There will be corps out there tossing on 100% tax, there will be others with 0% tax.
Typically a Corp can charge between 5-10% where it has minimal impact on the player but as a whole, it benefits the entire Corporation.
That ISK can go into purchasing items for corp battles, installations (once implemented), reimbursement, and player events.
It should also be taken out of each fight, not weekly. Just like in EVE, when you finish a mission, the tax is instantly removed before it hits your personal wallet.
Average fight would yield 200k ISK, tax at 5% and that merc still has 190k isk, the Corp gets the other 10k. If a Merc is complaining about not having any money with that low of a bracket then they're either A) in the wrong fitting or B) have too much overhead in inventory. If you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. |
GeneralButtNaked
Burnwall Industries
69
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
No tax until we can trade items to our corp members.
I should not be able to take their money if I can provide no service in return |
BursegSardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 19:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:All taxes should be taken straight off the top, all other methods should be disregarded. Rat bounties get taxed straight off the top, all things that can/will be taxed, should be taxed straight off the top.
A thought that I had while reading about corps using taxes as a CTA-leash: Why not allow us to tax different activities individually? Manufacturing tax, merc tax, PI tax, ratting tax, sales tax etc; give us the ability to tax each income generating activity individually. Beyond that, why not give us the ability to assign a Wallet Division to each corp member? I am not talking about giving them access to it with roles or titles, I am talking about assigning which wallet division their taxes are deposited into. Another thought that occurs is to allow us to assign a Wallet Division to activities as a whole. For example, all rat taxes go into the Military Wallet Division, all sales taxes go into the Sales Wallet Division and so on. Each Wallet Division could then have a flat general tax on its income which would then be deposited into the Master Wallet.
YES. I want to tax market transactions! And remove ratting taxes, and put mission rewards around 25%, so my guys will be encouraged to rat in our systems and not be off running missions.
And another layer on that, tax LP or allow a corp as a whole to earn them. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 19:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yeah, it would be nice if we were able to tax every currency available, AUR, ISK and LP. |
Cal Predine
StarKnight Security
37
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
With respect Cortez, you're making a few unfounded or unsupportable assumptions here.
Cortez The Killer wrote: For a mission running corp or a mining corp taxes might initially seem like charity to a new player in Eve. I'll get to how it *may* work for un-implemented features of Dust. Although I've never been in either a mission running or mining corp, you're right - taxes seemed like charity to me as a new Eve player. And here, 9.5 years of Eve playing later, they still seem like charity - a fundamentally backwards model where you pay your employer for the right to work for them, which has only been made to work by the creativity of Eve Corps. And I would indeed be interested to read your views on how taxation may work in Dust, although as I noted, it can and has been made to work.
Cortez The Killer wrote: Many Eve corps eventually have corp assets like research and manufacturing POSes that need to be both bought and maintained, both with market resources and labor. If a member wants to use or in any way benefit from those assets, they need to be paid for by those using them or benefitting from them. Taxes. Wars come and defenses need to be mounted, or mercenaries hired. Taxes.
In any working environment, you are expected to bring the basics with you. For simplicity, let's call the basics a pair of boots and willingness to do the job. After that, it is expected that the employer foot the bill for any advanced materials and training.
In Dust, would you expect your army to fund themselves? If not, where does your corp get the money to keep fighting? From the CEOs personal wallet? Dust promises to those armies conquerable territories that can be upgraded for both defense and material productivity. Direct conflict to gain and hold those assets cost money.
Again, all good points, except that repeating the word "taxes" doesn't make it the only possible way for a corp to raise funds. You ask the very question yourself right there - where does your corp get the money to keep fighting? And then you give the answer (or one of many possible answers) - those conquerable territories. The manufacturing facilities on them. The players will already be paying for those things in blood, seems only fair they shouldn't also be taxed! These territories should be revenue generators, not sinks (other than when, as you note, you have to fight to keep them). And we're mercenaries, so it's not unreasonable to expect our Corp to be paid to fight - as indeed they already are for Corp matches. Now if we can just have a method to filter some of that wealth down to players - say the corp CEO assigns a percentage of corp battle income which is divided among participating players based on their contribution in the match (WP seems a good enough measure, although I'm sure others are possible). this could get calculated and paid at the end of each match, no lingering book-keeping, all done by the time the credits have rolled. Meanwhile, the corp slice can be invested in buying (possibly eventually manufacturing) warfighting equipment for the soldiery, or funding territorial conquests/ upgrades to make the corp more attractive to new recruits - exactly the kind of choices Eve corps make about how to spend their wealth
Under this system ,mercenaries would still have the option to take a private contract (instant battle). Maybe you get no stores support from your corp, and the pay's lower, but it goes straight to you and you get to keep it all. There's real economics in action, because if the corp gets too greedy and takes too large a slice of the battle income, it will make more financial sense for the most efficient mercs to "go solo" and pay for their own gear... While this is exactly the type of player that corps will want in corp battles - effective soldiers who are "cheap to run". your reputation becomes, literally, valuable.
Cortez The Killer wrote: Direct conflict to gain and hold those assets cost money. Where exactly do you expect that money to come from? Lemme guess, I dunno, so long as it ain't me. Agreed on all counts, but you say that money shouldn't come from you... Then you advocate taxing corporation members... Am I missing something here? If it's tax, then it *is* coming from you. Isn't that the very point I made in the first place?
Paying your employer for the right to work for them.
All I'm saying - quite simply - is that there are other ways for corps to gain income than taxing their members. one of these is already in place, and it's entirely fitting that a mercenary corp is rewarded for fighting for the big factions.
I'd like everyone to stop and think if they really want corp taxes... Or if they just want a sensible and effort-based method for the corp to raise funds. Dust is still new - these don't have to be the same thing. It's an ambitious game, we can be ambitious too. |
Assi9 Ventox
The Hellspawned
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:We would likely do it as a percentage of ISK earned for each battle, and even show it on the end of battle screen.
This would be fantastic and much needed so CEO's don't have to keep begging members to deposit isk. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
I've actually heard that there are corps who demand 200k per day from every member or they get booted. I think that is hilarious. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
588
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dust Corps are supposed to be the same as EVE corps yes? In which case I don't see why you would NOT have the ability to assign a Corp Tax. It's a valuable tool that allows a corp to operate and support its members. Corp funds can be used to help new players buy skill books and gear, or purchase equipment for corp battles. Really Dust needs to have all the corp functions that EVE has.
Obviously that isn't all going to happen overnight, but I think if I had to pick the 3 most important functions Dust needs in its corp system, it would be:
1. The ability to set a % tax rate which is deducted from the earnings after every battle. And yes, NPC corps need a 11% tax rate.
2. The ability to trade items/isk. Hangars are not needed immediately if a corp used a "Hangar" character to just store and trade gear, but the ability to trade items and isk directly between characters is a must in the short term.
3. More options when it comes to roles. We only have Director at the moment which leads to a lot of risk when it comes to giving anyone power. We need some more specific roles so I'm not opening my corp up to getting screwed if I want to give someone the ability to accept a corp contracts but don't want to give them full access to everything else.
|
Ares Lawrens
Phoenix Security Solutions
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
I believe the tax should happen as the match ends that way players would be forced to do better and actually play the objective and stop mass rushing across the maps like this is WWII |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |