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Judge Rhadamanthus
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.02.28 11:03:00 -
[91] - Quote
I think we need to look ahead not at now. In the future there will be bigger battles with more terrain to traverse. This is when your vehicle players will become of great use. This is when free lavs should go. Teams should learn to use the skills and machines of those players with sp investment into Drop ships, tanks or lavs. If they need transport they need to use the stronger options available and provided by other players.
However. In pubs what happens if one team has pilots and lav drivers and the other does not? Unbalanced. Sure, the games future is corp battles but pubs happen, people need to start somewhere so pubs need balance too.
The games will be deeper if players learn use the drop ships etc available rather then just spawning in a quick free lav and racing off alone into the fray. Cost based lavs may force a tighter group play. People will travel with the stronger lav spawned by a sp based driver, or DS pilot. This will keep groups together and thus stronger.
Perhaps lavs can be free in matches where no drivers or pilots are spawned? That way you get something, but if you have DS pilots and modded lavs available then no free ones. |
Kray Dytt
THE DOLLARS
10
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Posted - 2013.02.28 11:54:00 -
[92] - Quote
I love the free LAV's! They blow up so nicely when I throw an AV nade at them 
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Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
106
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:14:00 -
[93] - Quote
LAV's need a seat lock and a RDV evac option. Then we can think about getting rid of the free ones. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:50:00 -
[94] - Quote
Jax Saurian wrote:and as I said many times over in the right hands the LAV can be a useful tool but won't be seen as such since it is free and can be discarded
if we brought back free dropships people will see them only as disposable transport NOT a useful tool that it has shown itself to be
1. There's nothing stopping people from using the more expensive LAVs now. If they're really all that useful once you get past the starter LAV, then the starter LAVs serve as a great decoy for people who know how to use the better ones (i.e., your enemies expect a weak freebie and don't take you seriously until you've mowed half of them down). Have you had a lot of success with higher-tier LAVs?
2. Even when we had free dropships, people were using the more expensive ones because they were useful. If I recall, most of the ones using free dropships were snipers trying to get to remote locations. People using the dropships to fight or move troops were usually paying for something better.
Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote:I suggest a somewhat simple fix that might have people screaming foul. Don't take the free LAV away. Make it slower and take away its weapon and add a third seat. Most people who argue to keep the LAV in this thread all seem to have one thing in common: they all use the free LAV as a personal transport. Since few people suggest that the Light ASSAULT Vehicle is good for much else (as in, you hardly do much assaulting in the thing just fly to location and ditch out upon arrival), make the starter LAV a simple quick transport vehicle.
To evolve this idea--add a variant that squad leaders can call in, called "LTV" (transport), and instead of 3 seats, it has 4 (so you can take your whole squad with you). I think you'd be surprised how much this could cut down on the number of vehicles called. Currently the only way to transport your whole squad is to spawn a dropship, and most people don't want to spend that money just to get from A to B. We can then make any LTV spawns beyond the first one require a token war point expense (say 100 WP).
We'd have to re-think this if we get larger squads, though. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
167
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Posted - 2013.02.28 22:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
Nothing should be free in New Eden. LAV's included. Just make them cost 20K ISK each. That's still stupid cheap, but losing 5 of them will dent your earnings in our current matches and may keep spam down.
Or, if people just love free, make them explode upon impact with anything (merc included). If they're made of such inferior materials that they're being given away for free then they must be the Ford Pinto of the future. That limits them to transport only (which is what all the pro-free LAV people seem to want) because they absolutely suck at being a gun platform. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
415
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Posted - 2013.02.28 22:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
Free dropsuits get free guns, why not lavs? |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
460
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Posted - 2013.02.28 22:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:Jax Saurian wrote:and as I said many times over in the right hands the LAV can be a useful tool but won't be seen as such since it is free and can be discarded
if we brought back free dropships people will see them only as disposable transport NOT a useful tool that it has shown itself to be 1. There's nothing stopping people from using the more expensive LAVs now. If they're really all that useful once you get past the starter LAV, then the starter LAVs serve as a great decoy for people who know how to use the better ones (i.e., your enemies expect a weak freebie and don't take you seriously until you've mowed half of them down). Have you had a lot of success with higher-tier LAVs? .
Well you see, the LAV is the A to B transport combined with attack. Now what happens with free LAVs is that it diminishes the value of the tiers above it by undermining a perk to having an LAV/skills in it. Free Dropships are the same way, everyone used them as transport and the value of tiers above it diminishes. It's an issue of how the free LAV is causing a flood of LAVs, so that the tiers above kind of get washed away because everyone has an LAV. There's nothing special about the LAV because anyone and everyone has it for free, which isn't how it should be. There should be something special about an LAV. |
Thrillhouse Van Houten
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2013.02.28 23:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:To evolve this idea--add a variant that squad leaders can call in, called "LTV" (transport), and instead of 3 seats, it has 4 (so you can take your whole squad with you). I think you'd be surprised how much this could cut down on the number of vehicles called. Currently the only way to transport your whole squad is to spawn a dropship, and most people don't want to spend that money just to get from A to B. We can then make any LTV spawns beyond the first one require a token war point expense (say 100 WP).
We'd have to re-think this if we get larger squads, though.
I likey...
You wouldn't have to accommodate squads of every size. Or even squads at all. The LTV idea has great merit.
Rather than costing WP (a mechanic that seems borrowed from other FPS with little insight, imo) which punishes people not in squads or newbies who have no clue what they are doing, I read another post in another thread that suggested that the purchase cost be deducted from your contract earnings at the end of the match. The idea is that you are being paid by some entity to fight this battle for them and LAVs cost them money. It basically is the same as pre-paying, I guess, but you don't pay if you don't spawn a LAV. It would still be sub-militia grade, like the free LAV is.
The original post was a touch more draconian and suggested that all starter suit be deducted for many of the same reasons as the OP here wants LAVs to not be free. If you really think about it, so long as the cost of starter fits and LAVs is LOW, LOW, LOW then the notion isn't ridiculous. It makes perfects sense (the corp hiring you is paying for your newbie equipment at a far reduced cost). Most importantly for new players, CCP could set the cost of starter gear when they will not be able to set the cost of militia gear once the market becomes truly open.
Don't want to hijack the thread...focus on my LAV related ideas.
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Kincate
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.03.01 04:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
Id have to agree that free LAVs (FAVs) need to go. You can argue the transport thing all you like but honestly, your in a heavy suit, your a pain in the ass to kill sometimes, and you move slow. So your saying that you deserve a free LAV because your Heavy suit moves slow. Why cant you just use team work and coordination to move yourself around quickly?
Then you come to the surviveability of LAVs. Its quite possible to survive an entire match in one LAV and with a good gunner end high on points. I do it frequently so Im speaking from experience, I have sps invested in LAVs and with a good gunner theyre worth it. Its not easy and LAVs have alot of issues that need worked out. Thats one of the big reasons FAVs, who really takes LAVs seriously right now? With so many balochs and onikumas spammed and ditched in one match. All most people see of LAVs in general is FAVs and theyre drivers. So thats one big reason they need to go, so LAVs can be taken seriously. I know thats more of a meta issue, so Ill jump back to earlier in my post and say so that you can transport yourself somewhere for free which is a game balance issue, if the guy in the heavy suit can move himself from place to place faster than a scout suit for free when a big drawback to a heavy suit is supposed to be speed then your effecting balance. Also how can you accurately determine if something like AV grenades or swarm launchers are working to well when the majority of the vehicles they target are viewed as expendable. You can find plenty of good reasons to get rid of FAVs but can you really present one for keeping them?
The two big arguements (I need transport, or I wanna know what an LAV drives like) dont hold up because A. HTFU and find someone to carry you or walk yourself. B paying for militia tanks and dropships works out fine for seeing if I want those vehicles why not LAVs? |
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