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Since we are getting new suits....

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Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:03:00 - [1] - Quote Since we are getting new suits, how about a skill reset so we can respec, CCP?
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 967	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:05:00 - [2] - Quote No. New gear is always going to be coming. No more resets.
Mark Smith Jr Outer Haven Patriots 17	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:05:00 - [3] - Quote pardon my dumb question, but when you say reset your just talking about all the points we've spent being returned to us so we can respend them? or do we lose them and have to get them all over again?
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:06:00 - [4] - Quote Yes so we can respend them. I guess I should have said skill refund.
Mark Smith Jr Outer Haven Patriots 17	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:08:00 - [5] - Quote yeah, would have been nice. thanks for answering my question. if its just a refund then im down with it
General John Ripper Baltar Research 22	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:10:00 - [6] - Quote I just have an assault suit 1. I find it better to first level up all your core skills first while trying out different load outs so you can have a good idea on what you would like to do best. My first instinct was to go AR but I have just tried out LR for the first time its its something new for me and fun. I still have a few hundred thousand sp to earn before i decide on what to specialize in.
GoD-NoVa Imperfects Negative-Feedback 174	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:19:00 - [7] - Quote lol
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 372	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:22:00 - [8] - Quote no because then i would have to put 2mil sp back into where they were, i like my current sp placement and am patient enough to wait to specialise into other suits
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:26:00 - [9] - Quote You put points in that suit because it was available and you used it. You earned kills using that suit and it is reflected in your permanent history. Feel free to cross train into something else but I bet you'll appreciate having the option to switch to that suit again at some point. Most pilots strive to cross train and the same thing will happen for mercenaries. Doctrine may dictate a different approach depending on who you are going up against. It could be heavy armor one battle and ultra light guerrilla tactics the next. This isn't some lame run and gun. It's about making a commitment. At least you have the option to change direction since the only classes are those defined by the skills you've trained and the suit you are wearing at that very moment.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:29:00 - [10] - Quote I am just going to post this link right here for you to read For god sake people, do a search of the forums. The SEARCH function is there for a reason.

Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:41:00 - [11] - Quote gbghg wrote: no because then i would have to put 2mil sp back into where they were, i like my current sp placement and am patient enough to wait to specialise into other suits It would only take a few minutes. It seems a bit ridiculous to be against this because you will be slightly inconvenienced. Reav Hannari wrote: This isn't some lame run and gun. It's about making a commitment. At least you have the option to change direction since the only classes are those defined by the skills you've trained and the suit you are wearing at that very moment. Being able to respend so I can better specialize doesn't cheapen my gaming experience. A skill refund would allow players to not feel frustrated or left out and isn't even something new to Eve since CCP has done it for Capsuleers. Maken Tosch wrote: For god sake people, do a search of the forums. The SEARCH function is there for a reason. And I know this might be hard for you wrap your head around, but I am talking a skill refund, not a hard reset.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:49:00 - [12] - Quote Quote: A skill refund would allow players to not feel frustrated or left out and isn't even something new to Eve since CCP has done it for Capsuleers. The only time CCP ever reimbursed us for the SP we trained for is when they officially removed the "Learning" skills and revamped the attribute system due to the fact that the "Learning" skill books were a hindrance to the immersion of Eve for trial users. Since then there has been no SP reimbursements. That was YEARS ago.
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:52:00 - [13] - Quote [quote=Maken Tosch] Quote: That was YEARS ago. So we agree. They've done it before so they can do it again. I think a lot of people oppose this because it would allow a lot of the new players to undo their mistakes and catch up to the more hardcore players. The way the game is set up right now it isn't very user friendly and frankly that's not good. I think a refund would help casuals even the playing field and make the game all around more enjoyable.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:54:00 - [14] - Quote I support the idea of a respec when some new (and this major) comes out. I need all the SP I can get to put into being a full time pilot.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:55:00 - [15] - Quote Loss Tovas wrote: So we agree. They've done it before so they can do it again. I think a lot of people oppose this because it would allow a lot of the new players to undo their mistakes and catch up to the more hardcore players. The way the game is set up right now it isn't very user friendly and frankly that's not good. I think a refund would help casuals even the playing field and make the game all around more enjoyable. You are right. they can do it again but only if a case similar to the removal of the "Learning" skills were to happen or if London gets destroyed. That is not expected to happen as CCP is being careful with how skill books are being arranged. Currently, they are revamping the entire skill tree for Eve Online and so far... ABSOLUTELY NO ONE expects any SP refund of any kind.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:56:00 - [16] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I support the idea of a respec when some new (and this major) comes out. I need all the SP I can get to put into being a full time pilot. NO. Terrible idea. I would rather see to it that the entire game economy is burned to the grown like what happened to Jita back in 2012 then to see a respec happen. I'm not alone in that opinion.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 633	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:59:00 - [17] - Quote Personally, I would like to see an option for SP spent on dropsuit skills to be refunded. Why? For a while there, racial variants etc was an eventuallyGäó kind of thing that we'll get one day, then all of a sudden it's "loljk, nope, soon." So some of us have been investing because we didn't expect to see new suits for a long while still, and we went with our only available options. I think this affected heavies the most, where you HAD to spec THIS heavy in order to use heavy weapons. (don't give me the should have used militia heavy line, when it's the only instance left of hp difference between suit tiers and it's a significant difference) But still, everyone else also had to spec into the single specific suit we have now in order to use that suit type. We have zero choices right now, really. Even if the new suits take advantage of some of the existing invested SP, people may not even want that suit type anymore. If there's an assault suit that does what I want better than when I'm currently getting out of the logi suit, all that SP in logi suits is wasted for me. It's not as simple as "oh it's new content so you'll have to skill it." We're currently restricted to only having one choice right now. We HAVE to invest if we want anything above militia, and to expect us all to be hanging out in militia suits still, however many weeks we are currently at, is pretty ridiculous.
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:59:00 - [18] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I support the idea of a respec when some new (and this major) comes out. I need all the SP I can get to put into being a full time pilot. NO. Terrible idea. I would rather see to it that the entire game economy is burned to the grown like what happened to Jita back in 2012 then to see a respec happen. I'm not alone in that opinion. Why? It makes little sense, this is still beta.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:06:00 - [19] - Quote If anything they are only going to refund the effected skill so you can change races, nothing more but potential far less (as in do nothing.)
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:14:00 - [20] - Quote The first major refactoring of the ship skill tree is coming this summer. Two major classes of ships which depending on a single skill each are being split across racial lines. The only points being refunded are for any strange cases where someone trained those particular skills without having related racial skills leading up to them. For everyone else the racial skills will be computed based on what they have trained and automatically added. There will be no choice in the matter. (But there are a fair number of very confused people) At no other time when new equipment or ships were added have skills been refunded. When something new comes out everyone can make a choice and start training into it. The suit skills we have today are clearly identified by race. They have two directions they can take. They could add new racial skills for each suit type or split it across "Minmatar Dropsuit" and "Scout Dropsuit" so you can more easily cross train across all of your races suits or across the racial variants, but doing both will take a long time. The weapons are racial in nature but their skills are not labelled that way. Using the above as a precedent we may automatically get racial weapon skills, but more likely the existing ones will simply be renamed. Assault Rifle may become Gallente Assault Rifle, Mass Driver to Minmatar Grenade Launcher, etc.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:16:00 - [21] - Quote Loss Tovas wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I support the idea of a respec when some new (and this major) comes out. I need all the SP I can get to put into being a full time pilot. NO. Terrible idea. I would rather see to it that the entire game economy is burned to the grown like what happened to Jita back in 2012 then to see a respec happen. I'm not alone in that opinion. Why? It makes little sense, this is still beta. Eve Online is still beta as well if you think about it.
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:18:00 - [22] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Loss Tovas wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I support the idea of a respec when some new (and this major) comes out. I need all the SP I can get to put into being a full time pilot. NO. Terrible idea. I would rather see to it that the entire game economy is burned to the grown like what happened to Jita back in 2012 then to see a respec happen. I'm not alone in that opinion. Why? It makes little sense, this is still beta. Eve Online is still beta as well if you think about it. You are dodging the question. The other thing to think about is again, this isn't eve. While it exists in the same universe, it can not function the same way. Skill refunds so people can repsec allow casuals to keep up by not being penalized for not having the time to grind.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:23:00 - [23] - Quote Loss Tovas wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Loss Tovas wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I support the idea of a respec when some new (and this major) comes out. I need all the SP I can get to put into being a full time pilot. NO. Terrible idea. I would rather see to it that the entire game economy is burned to the grown like what happened to Jita back in 2012 then to see a respec happen. I'm not alone in that opinion. Why? It makes little sense, this is still beta. Eve Online is still beta as well if you think about it. You are dodging the question. The other thing to think about is again, this isn't eve. While it exists in the same universe, it can not function the same way. Skill refunds so people can repsec allow casuals to keep up by not being penalized for not having the time to grind. Allowing casuals to respec is a stronger argument? CCP hasn't been pushing the single shard, actions have consequences theme for DUST less than they have for EVE?
zeek1227 zeek1227 Blitzkrieg Co. 144	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:23:00 - [24] - Quote It would be better if there was no sp and we just had to level up to unlock gear Then once we got to a certain point we would restart taking only 1 weapon with us also we don't need dropsuits or armor just make gun customizing better And the sci di theme is dumb make it modern day Also shrink the maps A LOT and please lower the player count This is how you make a good game
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:24:00 - [25] - Quote zeek1227 zeek1227 wrote: It would be better if there was no sp and we just had to level up to unlock gear Then once we got to a certain point we would restart taking only 1 weapon with us also we don't need dropsuits or armor just make gun customizing better And the sci di theme is dumb make it modern day Also shrink the maps A LOT and please lower the player count This is how you make a good game
Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 31	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:26:00 - [26] - Quote What's this about new suits? Have I missed some announcement or is this just speculation based on what somebody dug up in the item database?
Sebastian Seraphim Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 25	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:26:00 - [27] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Eve Online is still beta as well if you think about it. It's really not, I'm fed up of people saying that it is. It's a released product, it's just gaining expansions just like any other released game. Builds are different to expansions, builds are comprised of new content that isn't fully tested nor permanent, it contains temporary features that people have access to and then the game developer gains feedback of each feature and whether or not to keep that feature. Expansions are fully tested packs of content, like a map pack. Now yes, expansions can have bugs that need to be fixed but all in all their generally tidied versions of builds with less or more content added. On the idea of respec, I am against it. It just allows players that were stupid to basically fix up their wasted skill points, not to mention characters with 2 mill + (like me) will be able to just go, "Oh I don't need any of these useless skills, I'll just stick all the SP into getting prototype drop-suits and complex shield extenders without working up the tech ladder."
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:27:00 - [28] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Allowing casuals to respec is a stronger argument? CCP hasn't been pushing the single shard, actions have consequences theme for DUST less than they have for EVE? A stronger argument against what? No one has offered a counter argument. Actions have consequences, yeah I get that. But how can we be beta testing when basically I am being told that I shouldn't have specced the Scout suit and have to live with my choices even though the Amarr variant was available. I honestly believe that the only reason people oppose a refund is because then they'd actually have to get better at their gun game instead of just harvesting noobs by the truck full.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:29:00 - [29] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: What's this about new suits? Have I missed some announcement or is this just speculation based on what somebody dug up in the item database? CCP Praetorian mentioned that a dropsuit dev blog is coming very soon and another on equipment just before that. The Shanghai office has another week of holiday I believe so I'd expect it them to be published shortly after that, once they've had a chance to get back into the groove and review things. Racial weapons may follow that but it was less definite. He also mentioned that not all suit variations may be ready in time for the next build but what they had looked very impressive.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:37:00 - [30] - Quote Loss Tovas wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Allowing casuals to respec is a stronger argument? CCP hasn't been pushing the single shard, actions have consequences theme for DUST less than they have for EVE? A stronger argument against what? No one has offered a counter argument. Actions have consequences, yeah I get that. But how can we be beta testing when basically I am being told that I shouldn't have specced the Scout suit and have to live with my choices even though the Amarr variant was available. I honestly believe that the only reason people oppose a refund is because then they'd actually have to get better at their gun game instead of just harvesting noobs by the truck full. I read your argument of "serving the casuals" being stronger than "EVE hasn't really left beta." I don't see either one as supporting the discussion here. CCP's idea of beta is different than most other game companies, especially now that we are live on Tranquility. I fully believe that CCP will approach the new suit variants as if the megacorporations just added new products to the market. There is no way to remap your brain and experience just because something new came along. We are pioneers in the mercenary business. Those products just weren't available before and if you want to use them then start using them. I don't see how not allowing respecs allows for harvesting noobs by the truck full.



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