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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:You are dodging the question.
The other thing to think about is again, this isn't eve. While it exists in the same universe, it can not function the same way. Skill refunds so people can repsec allow casuals to keep up by not being penalized for not having the time to grind.
I'll answer for you then.
Respecing will simply allow players, especially those who have trained up tens of millions SP (some are currently up to at least 5 million in Dust) to be able to focus everything on one single flavor of the month and then once they get bored they simply move on to the next flavor of the month to respec into thus making each class into just some disposable set of skill books that people can just throw away.
But that's not the biggest problem. The big problem is that respeccing will take away the very essence of having meaningful choices by taking away permanent consequences. You are not the first to ask for a Respec and Dust is not the first game to see players ask for this. Eve players have asked for the same thing, but thankfully the vast majority of the playerbase in Eve oppose it for the very reasons I mentioned. What is the point of having meaningful choices if none of my choices have a permanent consequence for me to live with for the rest of my life?
Do you find it strange that I want to hinder myself like this? To choose to live with the mistakes of my past because my past has defined me and made me who I am? I made the choice of being a Nova Knifer only and I am glad to live with that choice even though I knew for a fact that there are better options out there. You're probably wondering "Maken, what if your profession is a bust?" Well then, that is my problem. Not yours. Stay out of it.
Let me live with my permanent consequences so that my choices are meaningful. |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.02.17 18:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Praetorian mentioned that a dropsuit dev blog is coming very soon and another on equipment just before that. Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks.
But wasn't that like 2-3 weeks ago? Makes no sense to see this thread now ;). |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
I feel no pity for the mercs that went straight for the higher tiered drop suits. Just because you raced for the best gear and didn't fill up your passives (which help all suits) doesn't mean you get a reset button.
I went to assault-A series because I figured it was the best survivability with the least amount of SP dumped into it. After that I have started filling out passives and my MD skills. I always figured they would be adding more items to the game and wanted to be able to skill into them without feeling I put all my sp into a role I wasn't going to always be playing.
Even last build before open I had over a million SP saved just incase they dropped new items. So because people don't have the foresight doesn't mean we should cater to their needs.
I am for a respec that cost AUR and a pretty penny at that and it gets more expensive the more you respec. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote: I read your argument of "serving the casuals" being stronger than "EVE hasn't really left beta." I don't see either one as supporting the discussion here. CCP's idea of beta is different than most other game companies, especially now that we are live on Tranquility.
That isn't my argument at all.... Dust 514 is still beta, the goal here is testing. This is a game not reality and not a simulation.
Quote: I don't see how not allowing respecs allows for harvesting noobs by the truck full.
Try playing with some and training them. Spend time in your local chat and see for yourself. There are players that have no idea what is going and spending their skills on what they think is important only to find that they made mistakes. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
633
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:The big problem is that respeccing will take away the very essence of having meaningful choices by taking away permanent consequences
We need to have choices before the choices can be meaningful. Right now we have one suit of each type to "pick" from. Refund just SP spent on dropsuit skills when they give us the ability to actually choose one to use, instead of be shoehorned into the only available option that we are right now. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Just a heads up guys, ALL races will be having ALL of variants eventually.
Only major difference is weapons and equipment.
However if you take a look at it now Amarr have the Laser Rifle Gallente have the plasma rilfe Caldari is getting a Gauss Rifle Does not mean the minmatar wont be getting Combat Rifle in the future.
So Every race will have a HAV, LAV, Dropship, and even MCCs. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 18:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Do you find it strange that I want to hinder myself like this? To choose to live with the mistakes of my past because my past has defined me and made me who I am? I made the choice of being a Nova Knifer only and I am glad to live with that choice even though I knew for a fact that there are better options out there. You're probably wondering "Maken, what if your profession is a bust?" Well then, that is my problem. Not yours. Stay out of it.
Let me live with my permanent consequences so that my choices are meaningful.
This isn't real life this is a video game. I'd rather have fun not worry about someones little libertarian wet dream. Honestly, if you like what Eve has to offer go play Spread-Sheets In Space. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
Do you find it strange that I want to hinder myself like this? To choose to live with the mistakes of my past because my past has defined me and made me who I am? I made the choice of being a Nova Knifer only and I am glad to live with that choice even though I knew for a fact that there are better options out there. You're probably wondering "Maken, what if your profession is a bust?" Well then, that is my problem. Not yours. Stay out of it.
Let me live with my permanent consequences so that my choices are meaningful.
This isn't real life this is a video game. I'd rather have fun not worry about someones little libertarian wet dream. Honestly, if you like what Eve has to offer go play Spread-Sheets In Space.
I already play Spreadsheets in Space.
Also, just because this is a video game it doesn't mean it should cater to the lowest common denominator like big-business companies like EA and Microsoft do. If you want Dust to be dragged down to the level of scubs who just want everything handed to them, you are playing the wrong game. CCP is the kind of company (not unlike others) that is willing to put their players through the process of living with their choices for the rest of their lives even if those choices turned out to be bad choices.
Awe, you don't like that. Too frakking bad. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
372
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just a heads up guys, ALL races will be having ALL of variants eventually.
Only major difference is weapons and equipment.
However if you take a look at it now Amarr have the Laser Rifle Gallente have the plasma rilfe Caldari is getting a Gauss Rifle Does not mean the minmatar wont be getting Combat Rifle in the future.
So Every race will have a HAV, LAV, Dropship, and even MCCs. I want this so badly |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote: If you want Dust to be dragged down to the level of scubs who just want everything handed to them, you are playing the wrong game. CCP is the kind of company (not unlike others) that is willing to put their players through the process of living their choices for the rest of their lives even if those choices turned out to be bad choices.
Awe, you don't like that. Too frakking bad.
Casuals make games. Not hardcore players. A balance has to be struck. I get that you want to force others to play the game the way you want them to play it, that's a pretty common thread amongst gamers. Allowing a casual to chase flavor of the month doesn't impact anyone but allows the casual to enjoy himself.
If we were talking release with everything available instead of trickling in and matches that put militia gear with prototype suits sure, maybe I would agree. But right now, how it is, and for what the casuals are needed for. I disagree no matter how smug you are. |
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SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: If you want Dust to be dragged down to the level of scubs who just want everything handed to them, you are playing the wrong game. CCP is the kind of company (not unlike others) that is willing to put their players through the process of living their choices for the rest of their lives even if those choices turned out to be bad choices.
Awe, you don't like that. Too frakking bad.
Casuals make games. Not hardcore players. A balance has to be struck. I get that you want to force others to play the game the way you want them to play it, that's a pretty common thread amongst gamers. Allowing a casual to chase flavor of the month doesn't impact anyone but allows the casual to enjoy himself. If we were talking release with everything available instead of trickling in and matches that put militia gear with prototype suits sure, maybe I would agree. But right now, how it is, and for what the casuals are needed for. I disagree no matter how smug you are. I'd agree with you if CCP didn't make this
"If you're going to follow us to the top, harden the **** up."
Otherwise I agree when racial suits become available we should get refunded for the SP put into suits alone. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: If you want Dust to be dragged down to the level of scubs who just want everything handed to them, you are playing the wrong game. CCP is the kind of company (not unlike others) that is willing to put their players through the process of living their choices for the rest of their lives even if those choices turned out to be bad choices.
Awe, you don't like that. Too frakking bad.
Casuals make games. Not hardcore players. A balance has to be struck. I get that you want to force others to play the game the way you want them to play it, that's a pretty common thread amongst gamers. Allowing a casual to chase flavor of the month doesn't impact anyone but allows the casual to enjoy himself. If we were talking release with everything available instead of trickling in and matches that put militia gear with prototype suits sure, maybe I would agree. But right now, how it is, and for what the casuals are needed for. I disagree no matter how smug you are.
I'm not expecting you to agree with me. You answered exactly how I expected you would answer. Have a good day sir. If you decide to quit playing Dust, no one will miss you. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote: I'm not expecting you to agree with me. You answered exactly how I expected you would answer. Have a good day sir. If you decide to quit playing Dust, no one will miss you.
678 kills huh? For a second there I thought you actually played the game. I understand why you fear a respec now. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote: I'm not expecting you to agree with me. You answered exactly how I expected you would answer. Have a good day sir. If you decide to quit playing Dust, no one will miss you.
678 kills huh? For a second there I thought you actually played the game. I understand why you fear a respec now.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh wow, since when does my KDR matter?
Have you ever considered this?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40601&find=unread
Maken Tosch wrote: Third thing I had to do was forget about SP and ISK. My job is to help my team by being a complete pest to the enemy. Imagine you see your team being annoyed by that one scout who seems to nova knife your team mates every now and then and can't seem to catch up to him as he does hit-n-run tactics. If you wish to be a ninja knifer, you have to forget about SP and ISK gains.
That means limited KDR as stabbing people doesn't amount to much kills. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Oh wow, since when does my KDR matter?
Didn't say anything about your KDR. Some needs to get better at reading comprehension. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
372
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
Oh wow, since when does my KDR matter?
Didn't say anything about your KDR. Some needs to get better at reading comprehension. What point were you trying to make then? because i came to the same conclusion as maken tosch that your post was about k/dr's |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
Oh wow, since when does my KDR matter?
Didn't say anything about your KDR. Some needs to get better at reading comprehension.
Hmm
Loss Tovas wrote: 678 kills huh? For a second there I thought you actually played the game. I understand why you fear a respec now.
What was this then?
Pointing out my limited amount of kills (which I don't give a rat's ass about) in this fashion pretty much implies that you think I'm scared about having my KDR negatively affected. Ask everyone around here if I care about my KDR and they will all tell you that the only thing I care about is stabbing players in the face or in the back.
You fail at best. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
What was this then?
Pointing out my limited amount of kills (which I don't give a rat's ass about) in this fashion pretty much implies that you think I'm scared about having my KDR negatively affected. Ask everyone around here if I care about my KDR and they will all tell you that the only thing I care about is stabbing players in the face or in the back.
You fail at best.
It was a comment about how much you play. Not a comment about how much you suck at playing. That's evident by your membership in PRO not your KDR and Warpoint count. |
Arbor Viridanus
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
196
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think we should get ONE optional skill respec once the alternate suits come out, and by "optional" I mean "if you opt out you never get a skill respec". That way the people who don't want to respec don't have to (and don't horde a skill respec to use if they hear something is broken later), while people who invested into a dropsuit because it was the only option aren't stuck with something they don't want.
I should point out that I don't care either way. If we get a respec, great. I'll compare dropsuits and pick out the one that I think will work best for me, as well as getting back the SP I wasted speccing into Lasers. If we don't, fine. I'll just have to live with the poor, impulsive speccing decisions I made.
gbghg wrote:Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
Oh wow, since when does my KDR matter?
Didn't say anything about your KDR. Some needs to get better at reading comprehension. What point were you trying to make then? because i came to the same conclusion as maken tosch that your post was about k/dr's
His point was about his total number of kills, not the K/D ratio.
It's still an odd point to be making, however. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
What was this then?
Pointing out my limited amount of kills (which I don't give a rat's ass about) in this fashion pretty much implies that you think I'm scared about having my KDR negatively affected. Ask everyone around here if I care about my KDR and they will all tell you that the only thing I care about is stabbing players in the face or in the back.
You fail at best.
It was a comment about how much you play. Not a comment about how much you suck at playing. That's evident by your membership in PRO not your KDR and Warpoint count.
I play a lot, dude. I just like using a knife which limits my use. Even if I do pick up a gun, I often find myself carefully picking targets rather than farming kills in a tank like Bad Furry.
Again, the number of kills don't matter. I also play support roles. |
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Arbor Viridanus wrote: It's still an odd point to be making, however.
Yes, a very odd point to make in a thread that is about SP resets/refunding. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
I play a lot, dude. I just like using a knife which limits my use. Even if I do pick up a gun, I often find myself carefully picking targets rather than farming kills in a tank like Bad Furry.
Again, the number of kills don't matter. I also play support roles.
Your measly 86k warpoints don't really suggest that. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
931
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lets make this game ********. Give us all infinite skill respecs. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
372
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
stats don't decide how good a player is, for example i'm a decent logi/ds pilot and i get **** k/dr's every match and when i fly DS i don't get huge amounts of wp either, i would quite happily take someone with crap stats but i know to be a good team players then some lone wolfer with a high k/dr |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I play a lot, dude. I just like using a knife which limits my use. Even if I do pick up a gun, I often find myself carefully picking targets rather than farming kills in a tank like Bad Furry.
Again, the number of kills don't matter. I also play support roles.
Your measly 86k warpoints don't really suggest that.
What the hell are you trying to do? Belittle me? Humiliate me? Good luck with that. I'm not the kind of person who cares about that. |
Arbor Viridanus
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
196
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I play a lot, dude. I just like using a knife which limits my use. Even if I do pick up a gun, I often find myself carefully picking targets rather than farming kills in a tank like Bad Furry.
Again, the number of kills don't matter. I also play support roles.
Your measly 86k warpoints don't really suggest that.
I find that people only resort to mocking another's stats if they have no logical rebuttal to their argument.
It's pretty much an admission of defeat. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Arbor Viridanus wrote:Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I play a lot, dude. I just like using a knife which limits my use. Even if I do pick up a gun, I often find myself carefully picking targets rather than farming kills in a tank like Bad Furry.
Again, the number of kills don't matter. I also play support roles.
Your measly 86k warpoints don't really suggest that. I find that people only resort to mocking another's stats if they have no logical rebuttal to their argument. It's pretty much an admission of defeat.
This.
Notice he's now distracting us with unrelated points like this that don't contribute to the original topic of SP resets/refunds. |
Loss Tovas
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 20:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
What the hell are you trying to do? Belittle me? Humiliate me? Good luck with that. I'm not the kind of person who cares about that.
I am pointing out that all your quips about me quitting, failing, or whatever keyboard-ninja nonsense you have to come up with is meaningless and that your attempt to paint me as the kind of player you need me to be to validate your point will only work on the others around here who won't understand what I am talking about in the first place or don't know me.
I don't have to humiliate you, battle you, I don't have to look at your stats to know you're a scrub. I brought them up to illustrate that you talk a big talk, just like your corp and just like your corp, you can't back it up. I felt that was important because normally when a person goes out of their way to have me grief them if I see them on the field, it is normally because they want the challenge not because the forum is the only place they can look cool.
You started in here by linking to a comment you made in another thread. Then you went on to cry and cry about how much my idea was terrible without offering another point. When I pointed out you were dodging you finally responded and continued to ignore what I was saying about casuals and the kind of impact they need to have while crying FAILURE and NO ONE WILL MISS YOU!!!! I know what's going on here. Just thought I'd give PRO a chance to not be full of complete jokes. |
BaD FuRrYV2
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 20:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Since we are getting new suits, how about a skill reset so we can respec, CCP?
NO NOOB ! |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
372
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 20:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Loss Tovas wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
What the hell are you trying to do? Belittle me? Humiliate me? Good luck with that. I'm not the kind of person who cares about that.
I am pointing out that all your quips about me quitting, failing, or whatever keyboard-ninja nonsense you have to come up with is meaningless and that your attempt to paint me as the kind of player you need me to be to validate your point will only work on the others around here who won't understand what I am talking about in the first place or don't know me. I don't have to humiliate you, battle you, I don't have to look at your stats to know you're a scrub. I brought them up to illustrate that you talk a big talk, just like your corp and just like your corp, you can't back it up. I felt that was important because normally when a person goes out of their way to have me grief them if I see them on the field, it is normally because they want the challenge not because the forum is the only place they can look cool. You started in here by linking to a comment you made in another thread. Then you went on to cry and cry about how much my idea was terrible without offering another point. When I pointed out you were dodging you finally responded and continued to ignore what I was saying about casuals and the kind of impact they need to have while crying FAILURE and NO ONE WILL MISS YOU!!!! I know what's going on here. Just thought I'd give PRO a chance to not be full of complete jokes. Maken tosch is a scrub? i never knew and nova ninja's are crazies who deserve your respect, they bring much needed variety and lol's to the battlefield. and for the record he's right that this game shouldn't cater to the every need of casual players, if they can't live with the skills they specced into they can make a new toon or GTFO. |
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