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General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:The consciousness is a very sensitive thing, but something not unlike OP's idea happens to capsuleers, whose pod nuero-feedback systems cause them to essentially become the ship they are flying. It is likely to guess that most of the skillbooks deal with pyschological preparation for existing as a battlecruiser for potentially years on end, and therefore it can be assumed that New Eden technology allows infantry to take on a different physical form as well. The first faction to make use of this is the Sansha - ever seen the True Slave computer item? The person has become a datasystem, and only snaps out of it for long enough to frown for a second. In the same vein, I expect Sansha MTACs to be operated by heads-in-jars...
Of course, even though we can shift the consciousness to a new clone, I do not recollect any technology that allows the "soul" to enter anything else - a requirement for OP vision. The Sansha have subverted this by making use of head-in-jar technology, but that is far too macabre for the Four Empires or CONCORD. what's this about "souls"? never read anything about them in the EVE backstories. further explanation and definition of the "soul" required Make you wonder about star trek teleporters now doesn't it?
not a trecky |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:55:00 -
[62] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpgAlso I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech.
what about the DEV's? i thiught they got spiffy jovian ships? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpgAlso I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech. what about the DEV's? i thiught they got spiffy jovian ships?
Polaris =/= Jovian
Polaris ships are cream of the crop concord ships often armed with the dreaded pod jammer and some jovian weapons. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 17:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpgAlso I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech. what about the DEV's? i thiught they got spiffy jovian ships? Polaris =/= Jovian Polaris ships are cream of the crop concord ships.
AWW |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 18:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpgAlso I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech.
These changes may make them deviate enough to not be considered human, but they still look like us more than we look like chimps. I would guess the genetic difference would have to be less than a few percents (2-5%). Much of our genes could be useful for fixing their genetic problems.
Experiments can be done by growing new Jovians, and copy/paste different genetic codes from humans into Joves (from where our genes are different), or copy/paste Jove genetic code into humans, and keep going until they find out the root cause of the disease. If its a combination of multiple Jove genes, then they could try countless combinations of gene switching for a few hundred years on a mass scale until they find the root cause. If those genes code for traits that are essential to Jovian identity, then the gene can be re-engeneered to fix the problem while still producing the Jove traits, or new genes could be made to deal with the problem.
And seriously, why don't they just clone themselves to repopulate to get back their former glory? According to this, the lack of numbers is the only thing keeping them back from it.
Do they just not care about the disease? have they lost the innate drive to persist? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 19:20:00 -
[66] - Quote
or they died out... this is after all the third jovain empire, they nearly wiped out the last two times. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 19:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
But it should have been fixable before they died out (if they indeed died out). They had more than enough time, stupid Jovians. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
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Posted - 2013.02.03 19:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
Who says they didn't try? |
CLOSEDBETA TSTR-est E3
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.02.03 20:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Gelan Corbaine wrote:You realize of course what happened to the Jove as a result of their genetic manipulations right ? I think I'll stick with relatively sane enhancements . Or at least as sane as you can get with super solider cloning . I never got that, seems dumb considering its a genetic disease. If they have genetic expertise, they should be able to fix it. If their genes are damaged beyond repair, why don't they just find samples of their original genes, or at least before they changed so much that they got sick, and start again from there? They could also take a sample from the the 4 main empires also. Also, we're immortal, our bodies are DISPOSABLE. If they're messed up by some terrible genetic glitch, we won't buy the clones, or we'll just suicide and return to normal human body. EDIT: I also read the disease keeps them from being able to reproduce and grow their numbers. Easily fixed by cloning.
They were manipulating the genes for generations...there were no origninals.In the end its what happens when you dont have enough genetic diversity.Everyone gets sick and dies from the same cold instead of some beating the virus and surviving thereby passing on the antibodies.
I point to the bubonic plague as an example.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 20:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
CLOSEDBETA TSTR-est E3 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Gelan Corbaine wrote:You realize of course what happened to the Jove as a result of their genetic manipulations right ? I think I'll stick with relatively sane enhancements . Or at least as sane as you can get with super solider cloning . I never got that, seems dumb considering its a genetic disease. If they have genetic expertise, they should be able to fix it. If their genes are damaged beyond repair, why don't they just find samples of their original genes, or at least before they changed so much that they got sick, and start again from there? They could also take a sample from the the 4 main empires also. Also, we're immortal, our bodies are DISPOSABLE. If they're messed up by some terrible genetic glitch, we won't buy the clones, or we'll just suicide and return to normal human body. EDIT: I also read the disease keeps them from being able to reproduce and grow their numbers. Easily fixed by cloning. They were manipulating the genes for generations...there were no origninals.In the end its what happens when you dont have enough genetic diversity.Everyone gets sick and dies from the same cold instead of some beating the virus and surviving thereby passing on the antibodies. I point to the bubonic plague as an example.
They had access to the other races for genetic samples to use in place of "original" as a base to work from, or for diagnostic purposes. I describe how it could work here.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 20:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Who says they didn't try? Good point. It would be a dumb way to die, being gods of genetic manipulation, yet still fail at fixing a genetic problem. I'm inclined to think the disease affected them in such a way that it made them unable to care about their own survival; I think that's the best way I can rationalize it. |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 04:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:
what's this about "souls"? never read anything about them in the EVE backstories. further explanation and definition of the "soul" required
Forgot to mention that I use the terms "consciousness" and "soul" interchangeably - they mean the same thing, the only difference is that the former is the somewhat-scientific term, and the latter is often a spiritual term. I prefer the latter due to it simply being easier to spell.
The "soul" is described as successfully transferred in New Eden lore, hence you are truly immortal as a clone soldier or capsuleer. An example is the instant transfer mentioned in the "Immortals" trailer.
So basically: soul = consciousness ---- I simply picked the easier-to-type one.
P.S. the Star Trek teleporters are an enigma - there is no classical-physics transfer of brain activity between the two locations, so the soul is suspected by many to be lost in the transfer. However, it seems that the transporter (really a modified Replicator) may work by producing a quantum entanglement between the two bodies - in quantum physics, that means they occupy the same state and in some cases act like one body. If the bodies are indeed entangled, then a soul could "consider" both bodies as the same, producing the same effect as a New Eden clone jump. It's highly theoretical since both involve tech far beyond the 21st Century, but that could mean that a Star Trek transporter allows such a transfer, hence allowing you to be "yourself" when the teleport is completed.
P.P.S. To go further would delve into philosophy that has been pondered by the greatest minds since the beginning of human history, which is beyond the mental ability of many (including me). |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 05:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:
what's this about "souls"? never read anything about them in the EVE backstories. further explanation and definition of the "soul" required
Forgot to mention that I use the terms "consciousness" and "soul" interchangeably - they mean the same thing, the only difference is that the former is the somewhat-scientific term, and the latter is often a spiritual term. I prefer the latter due to it simply being easier to spell. The "soul" is described as successfully transferred in New Eden lore, hence you are truly immortal as a clone soldier or capsuleer. An example is the instant transfer mentioned in the "Immortals" trailer. So basically: soul = consciousness ---- I simply picked the easier-to-type one. P.S. the Star Trek teleporters are an enigma - there is no classical-physics transfer of brain activity between the two locations, so the soul is suspected by many to be lost in the transfer. However, it seems that the transporter (really a modified Replicator) may work by producing a quantum entanglement between the two bodies - in quantum physics, that means they occupy the same state and in some cases act like one body. If the bodies are indeed entangled, then a soul could "consider" both bodies as the same, producing the same effect as a New Eden clone jump. It's highly theoretical since both involve tech far beyond the 21st Century, but that could mean that a Star Trek transporter allows such a transfer, hence allowing you to be "yourself" when the teleport is completed. P.P.S. To go further would delve into philosophy that has been pondered by the greatest minds since the beginning of human history, which is beyond the mental ability of many (including me).
lol, you ised "soul" because it's easier to spell? my kind of person
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Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2013.02.05 02:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Good point. It would be a dumb way to die, being gods of genetic manipulation, yet still fail at fixing a genetic problem.. Tragic irony - a plot device of many classics, as it's equal parts fitting to the characters and warning to the audience. I would have to double-check the EVElopedia article, but I believe one of the final-term symptoms was a loss of the will to live - hence, you would be correct. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 02:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Good point. It would be a dumb way to die, being gods of genetic manipulation, yet still fail at fixing a genetic problem.. Tragic irony - a plot device of many classics, as it's equal parts fitting to the characters and warning to the audience. I would have to double-check the EVElopedia article, but I believe one of the final-term symptoms was a loss of the will to live - hence, you would be correct. It is... |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 04:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
The closer you try to be god the closer you realize how stupidly mortal you really are. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 05:49:00 -
[77] - Quote
I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The closer you try to be god the closer you realize how stupidly mortal you really are.
BAH!! i'm an immortal clone only god i worship is the ISK |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. Hmmm, what is a proper reaction to this news? Oh I know, PRAISE SANSHA KUVAKEI FOR HE CANNOT BE DEFEATED AGAIN. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. My great, great, great grandfather has finally redeemed himself |
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General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. Hmmm, what is a proper reaction to this news? Oh I know, PRAISE SANSHA KUVAKEI FOR HE CANNOT BE DEFEATED AGAIN.
he betrayed the Caldari. he must suffer eternal agony |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. Hmmm, what is a proper reaction to this news? Oh I know, PRAISE SANSHA KUVAKEI FOR HE CANNOT BE DEFEATED AGAIN. he betrayed the Caldari. he must suffer eternal agony Good luck fighting us bro |
usrevenge2
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
64
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
I would like to be a giant enemy crab. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:41:00 -
[84] - Quote
usrevenge2 wrote:I would like to be a giant enemy crab.
Why not Zoidberg? |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:44:00 -
[85] - Quote
And i want to be a lizard which can run up walls while shoting a laser rifle. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:41:00 -
[86] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. Got a source?
That would be bad if true... |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:44:00 -
[87] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently.
While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won. Got a source? That would be bad if true...
i wouldn't be surprised actually, when you have no morals, you can do anything you set your mind too(I.E. Stalin) |
Alejandro Pereira
Universal Allies Inc.
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 16:59:00 -
[88] - Quote
Anticitizen2501 wrote:Would be a funny prank to pull on someone.
"Okay guys, why am I a giant octopus?"
BWAAA HA HA HA |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
212
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Gelan Corbaine wrote:You realize of course what happened to the Jove as a result of their genetic manipulations right ? I think I'll stick with relatively sane enhancements . Or at least as sane as you can get with super solider cloning . I never got that, seems dumb considering its a genetic disease. If they have genetic expertise, they should be able to fix it. If their genes are damaged beyond repair, why don't they just find samples of their original genes, or at least before they changed so much that they got sick, and start again from there? They could also take a sample from the the 4 main empires also. Also, we're immortal, our bodies are DISPOSABLE. If they're messed up by some terrible genetic glitch, we won't buy the clones, or we'll just suicide and return to normal human body. EDIT: I also read the disease keeps them from being able to reproduce and grow their numbers. Easily fixed by cloning.
tell that to The Broker |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
212
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 17:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
god that would be hell on the psyche, not impossible tho you are right. that said they are in the first year of research on this tech, and have a lot of other problems to work out(both IRNL and in the game). but thta would be cool to see.
some one wanted to know what ccp will do after seven years??? this might be it. |
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