DUST Search - We don't really have to be human...

Michael Cratar wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Since our minds are instantly copy/pasted in new bodies when we die, we're not bound to any one body. There is no reason that we can't have genetically engineered bodies designed and specialized for specific roles; I don't mean like a superman, but something not even human like.

We could have like 6 arms to hold more guns.
We could have bodies with leg setups similar to a tiger beetle (fastest animal for its size), and we could be like a centaur insect.
For oceanic planets, we could have bodies similar to giant octopuses.
We could also have bodies like pterodactyls designed for souring in the air.

I know Earth creatures are not relevant or known anymore, but these are just examples. EVE has its own flora and fauna for engineering lessons.

Crazy body types could further be augmented by dropsuits designed to fit them, and modules to maximize efficiency for whatever role.

I hear Jovians are really into genetic modification, I imagine they'd do something like this if they ever needed ground soldiers.

EDIT: If our new bodies go horribly wrong like with the Jovians, it doesn't matter since they are disposable and replaceable. Battlefield assets (like genetically engineered bodies) likely have to be thoroughly tested to make sure it doesn't mess up.
Manufacturers would thoroughly test the bodies anyway to make sure they don't anger and get abandoned by their customers.

EDIT 2: Regarding incompatibility issues, it keeps coming up in the thread and I don't want to keep addressing it again and again0 so I'll add it here. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain in the creature clone, but with new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues.

Finally somebody brought this up! Ok, here are my thoughts.

I still think this immortal tec is still very controversial in new Eden. Moral questions are still being asked like "Is this right?", or "are we going too far?" On the other hand, a lot of people don't care.

As for body modification. you have to think about the physiological effects this might have. if it is a modified human body it should not take long to get accustomed to and should not have many *if any at all* side effects. But if you were something inhuman, it might take longer to learn how to use the body and could have severe physiological effects. Also, if it was a slightly modified clone of yourself. you already know how to use your body so the learning curve for the slight adjustments will be very low. Allowing you to be more effective, faster.

I think it is much easier to modify equipment than it is to modify a human body or make a whole new creature.

You also got to think. if you make a creature. what is stopping it from forming its own consciousness. If it dose. What do you do with it?


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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 01:57:00 - [1] - Quote Human Phsyce has to require a human body still. While I think it would be cool to have wolf ears and that, the lore reasons where already stated before and the gallente found out the hard way you can't do what you mentioned.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 02:03:00 - [2] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Human Phsyce has to require a human body still. While I think it would be cool to have wolf ears and that, the lore reasons where already stated before and the gallente found out the hard way you can't do what you mentioned. link so i can read plz? It was a dev post years ago... I would be a needle in a haystack find.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 02:30:00 - [3] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Human Phsyce has to require a human body still. While I think it would be cool to have wolf ears and that, the lore reasons where already stated before and the gallente found out the hard way you can't do what you mentioned. link so i can read plz? Well, I know that the novel The Burning Life went into it a bit. One of the characters falls in with a Gallente subculture that is all about body modification and they are all pretty nuts. Damn Furries.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 03:33:00 - [4] - Quote Well basically the guy was asking to have his mind shoved into a slaver hound body and the dev replied the 'human mind' couldn't handle that transition despite that we handle the transition into 'ships' all the time as their bodies but its all because the ships where built to the accommodation the mind entirely in its raw interfaces as though sitting at the ships own consoles or something. It maybe just because somewhere in that machinery the subconscious is still aware of the frail human body inside that pod. I guess the best guess as to reason not why would be to google up phantom limbs. However if they offered wolf shaped helmets for aurum I so buy up on that.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 04:12:00 - [5] - Quote Also it be a way for ccp to get more money while satisfying some customers. I mean what if they gave out a demonic looking helmet for the amarrian heavies? or some spokey mad max helmet for the minmatar assault suit?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 05:29:00 - [6] - Quote Clones come in a few varieties in eve. The typical clone we're used to the plain jane copy of a person but they have thier own personality and the sorts no different than a biolgical twins. From what I understand they're frowned upon and are not 'useful' in normal means. Flash clones which up to this point have been only normally used for organ replacement, they typically only do parts for those who can afford it. Then there are the replacement clones, these clones that only the super wealthy can only afford (for those of you not familiar of the buy power of interstellar kredits or isk. 12,000 isk will retire an entire family comfortably for the rest of their lives.) These clones use a similar process of mind transferal however the technology is known for not working all that well for non-capsuleers and it doesn't fix the end results of fighting age related problems. (apperant they cant clone to a younger body either) Then there are the emperyans, or eve capsuleers. Genetics makes them one in a billion able to handle the technologies behind the Jovian techniques involved with ship mind control interface. A technology they have learned from sleepers and have tuned to perfection. Why exactly the Jovians gave the mortals this technology is a mystery, but I suspect they are either looking for a cure to their extinction though us one way or another. Empyrean technology transfers individual consciousness upon breaching the pod causes a fast scan which fries the brain but preserves the consciousness. As with dust clones they to have to pass the initiation of disposing of the body they where born with. It is also believed that a slow scan can be accomplished allowing empyrean to leave their pods and not get permanently killed but they may forget everything to that last backup. However capsuleers have been permanently killed in the past usually by destroying the clone that is going to replace them and cancelling their clone contracts rarely done by Concord. Empyrean technology allows a human mind to control massive starships with significantly lesser crew, enhance the ship's performance beyond any star ship captain's wildest dreams net resulting in an extremely cost effective platform. A battleship is normally crewed by up to 12,000 people, all specialist in certain fields of higher degrees of technologies thus on a standard ship crew is very expensive, years of training supplies. Then having that ship destroyed all that training gone. Empyrean controlled battleships can change shield resonances on the fly. harden armor without thinking, activate modules by mere emotion and just by simply directing anger at a target can cause its destruction all of this in a package of 1k crew size battleship. It takes nearly 10-20 ships with the best crew any empire navy can put together to fight one empyrean in the same class of ships and that is not even guaranteed victory. Then there is us. A combination of a customized flash clone and replacement clone with military enchantments that would make a halo spartan-2 jealous. Unlike capsuleers it doesn't matter if when and how we die, our mind transfers to another generic clone. Unlike capsuleers we have any choice of any generic clone, its not some pre-designated body HOWEVER there seems to be a helium 4 fluid router in which the implants are made with involved in handling the data transfer, so its possible to suspend one's data from reaching a new clone. For in station environments for socializing we may have a similar clone to the capsuleers a highly sophicated normal looking humanish clone with the implant still to allow a clone jump to whatever battlefield router is up at location of the fight. Jump clones are empyrean secondary bodies and serve similar function to our reserve clones in the CRU. The skill-books are really just software that subconsciously programs our minds, its a slow careful process though and like learning higher concepts basic concepts must first be understood before attempting more difficult rerouting.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 05:52:00 - [7] - Quote This is why we suspect Sansha ships as of late have gotten extremely dangerous. When you attempt to marry a consciousness into a ship without the proper genetics that makes them emperyan they suffer a condition known as watergraving, thus can never be unplugged ever. Sansha kidnapped a few million people in the opening days of his return and this is likely what he did with those poor souls scooped the important parts of individuality out of their brains and water-graved them all. As for us we are just as capable of embodiment as the empyrean are. Why do you think your drop suit gets 5% more effective health armor points when you train up the field mechanics skill? The largest ships we may be commanding with our minds is probably the MCC.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 06:35:00 - [8] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Since our minds are instantly copy/pasted in new bodies when we die, we're not bound to any one body. There is no reason that we can't have genetically engineered bodies designed and specialized for specific roles; I don't mean like a superman, but something not even human like. We could have like 6 arms to hold more guns. We could have bodies with leg setups similar to a tiger beetle (fastest animal for its size), and we could be like a centaur insect. For oceanic planets, we could have bodies similar to giant octopuses. We could also have bodies like pterodactyls designed for souring in the air. I know Earth creatures are not relevant or known anymore, but these are just examples. EVE has its own flora and fauna for engineering lessons. Crazy body types could further be augmented by dropsuits designed to fit them, and modules to maximize efficiency for whatever role. I hear Jovians are really into genetic modification, I imagine they'd do something like this if they ever needed ground soldiers. EDIT: If our new bodies go horribly wrong like with the Jovians, it doesn't matter since they are disposable and replaceable. Battlefield assets (like genetically engineered bodies) likely have to be thoroughly tested to make sure it doesn't mess up. Manufacturers would thoroughly test the bodies anyway to make sure they don't anger and get abandoned by their customers. EDIT 2: Regarding incompatibility issues, it keeps coming up in the thread and I don't want to keep addressing it again and again0 so I'll add it here. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain in the creature clone, but with new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Finally somebody brought this up! Ok, here are my thoughts. I still think this immortal tec is still very controversial in new Eden. Moral questions are still being asked like "Is this right?", or "are we going too far?" On the other hand, a lot of people don't care. As for body modification. you have to think about the physiological effects this might have. if it is a modified human body it should not take long to get accustomed to and should not have many if any at all side effects. But if you were something inhuman, it might take longer to learn how to use the body and could have severe physiological effects. Also, if it was a slightly modified clone of yourself. you already know how to use your body so the learning curve for the slight adjustments will be very low. Allowing you to be more effective, faster. I think it is much easier to modify equipment than it is to modify a human body or make a whole new creature. You also got to think. if you make a creature. what is stopping it from forming its own consciousness. If it dose. What do you do with it? We are a wee bit ahead of this culture trend... Current culture trend these days is one of absolute fear. Imagine shooting a guy dead, the next day hes back and hes pissed. Now imagine no matter what you do you cannot kill this man... This man has no fear either, and no regards to you, nobody can really tell him what is right and what is wrong and if he has to nuke a station just to get back at you, he will. Emperyians are considered to be remorseless Demigods. We are their angles of war, it may take a while for us to start having the just as awful though processes, but we either start breaking down our humanity or our humanity starts breaking us down. Imagine trying to seek death, but not finding it? As for you last question... we exterminate it with extreme vigor. We accidentally did this once and now we're their food source.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 16:46:00 - [9] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Zat Earthshatter wrote: The consciousness is a very sensitive thing, but something not unlike OP's idea happens to capsuleers, whose pod nuero-feedback systems cause them to essentially become the ship they are flying. It is likely to guess that most of the skillbooks deal with pyschological preparation for existing as a battlecruiser for potentially years on end, and therefore it can be assumed that New Eden technology allows infantry to take on a different physical form as well. The first faction to make use of this is the Sansha - ever seen the True Slave computer item? The person has become a datasystem, and only snaps out of it for long enough to frown for a second. In the same vein, I expect Sansha MTACs to be operated by heads-in-jars... Of course, even though we can shift the consciousness to a new clone, I do not recollect any technology that allows the "soul" to enter anything else - a requirement for OP vision. The Sansha have subverted this by making use of head-in-jar technology, but that is far too macabre for the Four Empires or CONCORD. what's this about "souls"? never read anything about them in the EVE backstories. further explanation and definition of the "soul" required Make you wonder about star trek teleporters now doesn't it?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 16:53:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning? The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpg Also I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 16:58:00 - [11] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning? The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpg Also I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech. what about the DEV's? i thiught they got spiffy jovian ships? Polaris =/= Jovian Polaris ships are cream of the crop concord ships often armed with the dreaded pod jammer and some jovian weapons.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.03 19:20:00 - [12] - Quote or they died out... this is after all the third jovain empire, they nearly wiped out the last two times.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:26:00 - [13] - Quote The closer you try to be god the closer you realize how stupidly mortal you really are.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.05 05:49:00 - [14] - Quote I just remembered one disturbing detail of where Jovian are recently. While seemingly unlikely, Its suspected Sansha's nation has invaded their space and won.