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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 03:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well basically the guy was asking to have his mind shoved into a slaver hound body and the dev replied the 'human mind' couldn't handle that transition despite that we handle the transition into 'ships' all the time as their bodies but its all because the ships where built to the accommodation the mind entirely in its raw interfaces as though sitting at the ships own consoles or something.
It maybe just because somewhere in that machinery the subconscious is still aware of the frail human body inside that pod.
I guess the best guess as to reason not why would be to google up phantom limbs.
However if they offered wolf shaped helmets for aurum I so buy up on that.
scifi furries |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Mars El'Theran wrote:Our combat clones are already engineered. As for six arms, who's to say you'd have any idea how to use them? Your mind is still a Human pattern after all, and it stands to reason that your hosts mind should be too. Even if you had 6 arms, the chance is the other 4 would just hang limply at your sides. I already mentioned it before twice in the thread how it could work. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain, but new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Actually, I think it would fail not based on the brain, but based on the "you". Your "mind" doesn't have the knowledge of extra arms or another body, so forcing you into something alien would be a shock; at the very best, you'd have to go through a long period of time adjusting to your new form until you've become comfortable in it (though you'd probably never be as good as with your real body), at worst, you've just fried your mind (kinda like a capsuleer going into a clone way to "small" for them when podded), and going back to your body won't fix it.
It would take years and years of research to find just how to fix that problem, IMO, since its not possible to "skill" for it until enough people that have gone through the process and given up their knowledge (or something like that...no clue how they work lol) |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well basically the guy was asking to have his mind shoved into a slaver hound body and the dev replied the 'human mind' couldn't handle that transition despite that we handle the transition into 'ships' all the time as their bodies but its all because the ships where built to the accommodation the mind entirely in its raw interfaces as though sitting at the ships own consoles or something.
It maybe just because somewhere in that machinery the subconscious is still aware of the frail human body inside that pod.
I guess the best guess as to reason not why would be to google up phantom limbs.
However if they offered wolf shaped helmets for aurum I so buy up on that. scifi furries Well, warriors throughout time have decorated themselves with animals to try to gain their "power" (whatever their culture places as a positive attribute the animal would give) to help them in battle. Don't see why it would be a bad thing now. |
Sontie
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
95
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Our minds are instantly transferable, but not instantly reprogrammed. It takes your entire brain wired just the way it is to work it in this current guise. Add alien **** to it, and it would need a freak ton more/new connections just to know how to move that 3rd arm. You'd have to learn a 10x skill for each arm you used and it would probably function worse than your normal arm til at least lvl 3
|
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Also it be a way for ccp to get more money while satisfying some customers. I mean what if they gave out a demonic looking helmet for the amarrian heavies? or some spokey mad max helmet for the minmatar assault suit? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Mars El'Theran wrote:Our combat clones are already engineered. As for six arms, who's to say you'd have any idea how to use them? Your mind is still a Human pattern after all, and it stands to reason that your hosts mind should be too. Even if you had 6 arms, the chance is the other 4 would just hang limply at your sides. I already mentioned it before twice in the thread how it could work. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain, but new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Actually, I think it would fail not based on the brain, but based on the "you". Your "mind" doesn't have the knowledge of extra arms or another body, so forcing you into something alien would be a shock; at the very best, you'd have to go through a long period of time adjusting to your new form until you've become comfortable in it (though you'd probably never be as good as with your real body), at worst, you've just fried your mind (kinda like a capsuleer going into a clone way to "small" for them when podded), and going back to your body won't fix it. It would take years and years of research to find just how to fix that problem, IMO, since its not possible to "skill" for it until enough people that have gone through the process and given up their knowledge (or something like that...no clue how they work lol) I see the mind, or "identity" as a process or actions actively performed by the brain, and that the mind is not an entity. Changing the brain should change how the actions (or mind) being performed. I think the right brain changes would definitely solve the issue you bring up. |
Patoman Radiant
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
53
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Human Phsyce has to require a human body still.
While I think it would be cool to have wolf ears and that, the lore reasons where already stated before and the gallente found out the hard way you can't do what you mentioned. link so i can read plz? Well, I know that the novel The Burning Life went into it a bit. One of the characters falls in with a Gallente subculture that is all about body modification and they are all pretty nuts. Damn Furries.
Speaking of which I don't get why in eve you can't switch gender and race on the fly, we are getting pretty good at it on earth in the 21st century using plastic surgery and bleaches and tanning salons. Stuff that is crude by comparison to what would be in a future with interstellar travel and nanobots.
Fur transformations would likely be able to be done in a hundred years or less here, so thousands of years in the future should obviously have it too.
Speaking of which, I have never seen the face of a dust merc, and we seem to be cloned by bulk at some MCC (regardless of who uses the 100 clones it has), its pretty obvious without the suits on we are probably some kind of hideous mutant clones that are massed produced. without the mask on like that one ******** guy from the goonies or furries. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Mars El'Theran wrote:Our combat clones are already engineered. As for six arms, who's to say you'd have any idea how to use them? Your mind is still a Human pattern after all, and it stands to reason that your hosts mind should be too. Even if you had 6 arms, the chance is the other 4 would just hang limply at your sides. I already mentioned it before twice in the thread how it could work. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain, but new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Actually, I think it would fail not based on the brain, but based on the "you". Your "mind" doesn't have the knowledge of extra arms or another body, so forcing you into something alien would be a shock; at the very best, you'd have to go through a long period of time adjusting to your new form until you've become comfortable in it (though you'd probably never be as good as with your real body), at worst, you've just fried your mind (kinda like a capsuleer going into a clone way to "small" for them when podded), and going back to your body won't fix it. It would take years and years of research to find just how to fix that problem, IMO, since its not possible to "skill" for it until enough people that have gone through the process and given up their knowledge (or something like that...no clue how they work lol) I see the mind, or "identity" as a process or actions actively performed by the brain, and that the mind is not an entity. Changing the brain should change how the actions (or mind) is being performed. I think the right brain changes would definitely solve the issue you bring up. But...what about, in EVE, when you die and forgot to keep your clone updated and so you lose things and have to retrain?
I think it would be more like that; the inferior clone is now more or less a foreign or "alien" body, and you don't "mesh" well with it, and so damage to "you" occurs |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Regarding your question about clone updating, I have no idea. Never played EVE, just dabbled in lore. It may well be that the way I think of the mind isn't how the EVE writers think of it. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Regarding your question about clone updating, I have no idea. Never played EVE, just dabbled in lore. It may well be that the way I think of the mind isn't how the EVE writers think of it. I just grabbed the cloning article from the EVElopedia; I'm guessing its as good a source on this as any, and its got at least a decent explanation on it. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cloning Maybe an EVE player can explain this whole thing better. |
|
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 05:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Weirdo stuff would require custom armor/etc built for the purpose. That would be far more expensive than using mass produced guns that billions of soldiers around the galaxy use regularly.
How would a human mind be able to accommodate something like additional limbs? Maybe it's not practical for a person to interface mentally with anything but a two-arm, two-leg, five-finger/toe biped. In the movie Avatar, for example, one thing I noticed is that the regular blue aliens had four digits (three fingers and a thumb) while the engineered ones had four fingers and a thumb. I thought that was kind of a little nod to the idea of people needing to be interfaced with something that has the same basic parts as their normal body, lest they be unable to move properly or coordinate their actions or whatever.
It's all fiction of course, so it's whatever they want to be, and all that aside the clear answer as to why not centaur-men wearing armor and using guns is that such a thing sounds fairly stupid and would look silly. Human clones with advanced armor is something most people who like sci-fi would be fans of. Beetle-legged things would be far lest endearing. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 05:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Clones come in a few varieties in eve.
The typical clone we're used to the plain jane copy of a person but they have thier own personality and the sorts no different than a biolgical twins. From what I understand they're frowned upon and are not 'useful' in normal means.
Flash clones which up to this point have been only normally used for organ replacement, they typically only do parts for those who can afford it.
Then there are the replacement clones, these clones that only the super wealthy can only afford (for those of you not familiar of the buy power of interstellar kredits or isk. 12,000 isk will retire an entire family comfortably for the rest of their lives.) These clones use a similar process of mind transferal however the technology is known for not working all that well for non-capsuleers and it doesn't fix the end results of fighting age related problems. (apperant they cant clone to a younger body either)
Then there are the emperyans, or eve capsuleers. Genetics makes them one in a billion able to handle the technologies behind the Jovian techniques involved with ship mind control interface. A technology they have learned from sleepers and have tuned to perfection. Why exactly the Jovians gave the mortals this technology is a mystery, but I suspect they are either looking for a cure to their extinction though us one way or another. Empyrean technology transfers individual consciousness upon breaching the pod causes a fast scan which fries the brain but preserves the consciousness. As with dust clones they to have to pass the initiation of disposing of the body they where born with. It is also believed that a slow scan can be accomplished allowing empyrean to leave their pods and not get permanently killed but they may forget everything to that last backup. However capsuleers have been permanently killed in the past usually by destroying the clone that is going to replace them and cancelling their clone contracts rarely done by Concord.
Empyrean technology allows a human mind to control massive starships with significantly lesser crew, enhance the ship's performance beyond any star ship captain's wildest dreams net resulting in an extremely cost effective platform. A battleship is normally crewed by up to 12,000 people, all specialist in certain fields of higher degrees of technologies thus on a standard ship crew is very expensive, years of training supplies. Then having that ship destroyed all that training gone. Empyrean controlled battleships can change shield resonances on the fly. harden armor without thinking, activate modules by mere emotion and just by simply directing anger at a target can cause its destruction all of this in a package of 1k crew size battleship. It takes nearly 10-20 ships with the best crew any empire navy can put together to fight one empyrean in the same class of ships and that is not even guaranteed victory.
Then there is us. A combination of a customized flash clone and replacement clone with military enchantments that would make a halo spartan-2 jealous. Unlike capsuleers it doesn't matter if when and how we die, our mind transfers to another generic clone. Unlike capsuleers we have any choice of any generic clone, its not some pre-designated body HOWEVER there seems to be a helium 4 fluid router in which the implants are made with involved in handling the data transfer, so its possible to suspend one's data from reaching a new clone. For in station environments for socializing we may have a similar clone to the capsuleers a highly sophicated normal looking humanish clone with the implant still to allow a clone jump to whatever battlefield router is up at location of the fight.
Jump clones are empyrean secondary bodies and serve similar function to our reserve clones in the CRU.
The skill-books are really just software that subconsciously programs our minds, its a slow careful process though and like learning higher concepts basic concepts must first be understood before attempting more difficult rerouting. |
Tregar Kerrigan
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 05:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bad things start to happen when you mess with bodies. Your brain is very specifically wired to have the limbs you have, and nothing more. When you lose a limb, people report still being able to feel it. Now imagine that in reverse, where you have extra limbs and no idea how to move them in unison. |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 05:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
The consciousness is a very sensitive thing, but something not unlike OP's idea happens to capsuleers, whose pod nuero-feedback systems cause them to essentially become the ship they are flying. It is likely to guess that most of the skillbooks deal with pyschological preparation for existing as a battlecruiser for potentially years on end, and therefore it can be assumed that New Eden technology allows infantry to take on a different physical form as well. The first faction to make use of this is the Sansha - ever seen the True Slave computer item? The person has become a datasystem, and only snaps out of it for long enough to frown for a second. In the same vein, I expect Sansha MTACs to be operated by heads-in-jars...
Of course, even though we can shift the consciousness to a new clone, I do not recollect any technology that allows the "soul" to enter anything else - a requirement for OP vision. The Sansha have subverted this by making use of head-in-jar technology, but that is far too macabre for the Four Empires or CONCORD. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 05:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
This is why we suspect Sansha ships as of late have gotten extremely dangerous.
When you attempt to marry a consciousness into a ship without the proper genetics that makes them emperyan they suffer a condition known as watergraving, thus can never be unplugged ever.
Sansha kidnapped a few million people in the opening days of his return and this is likely what he did with those poor souls scooped the important parts of individuality out of their brains and water-graved them all.
As for us we are just as capable of embodiment as the empyrean are. Why do you think your drop suit gets 5% more effective health armor points when you train up the field mechanics skill? The largest ships we may be commanding with our minds is probably the MCC. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
Thanks for the clone info Iron. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:04:00 -
[47] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Clones come in a few varieties in eve.
The typical clone we're used to the plain jane copy of a person but they have thier own personality and the sorts no different than a biolgical twins. From what I understand they're frowned upon and are not 'useful' in normal means.
Flash clones which up to this point have been only normally used for organ replacement, they typically only do parts for those who can afford it.
Then there are the replacement clones, these clones that only the super wealthy can only afford (for those of you not familiar of the buy power of interstellar kredits or isk. 12,000 isk will retire an entire family comfortably for the rest of their lives.) These clones use a similar process of mind transferal however the technology is known for not working all that well for non-capsuleers and it doesn't fix the end results of fighting age related problems. (apperant they cant clone to a younger body either)
Then there are the emperyans, or eve capsuleers. Genetics makes them one in a billion able to handle the technologies behind the Jovian techniques involved with ship mind control interface. A technology they have learned from sleepers and have tuned to perfection. Why exactly the Jovians gave the mortals this technology is a mystery, but I suspect they are either looking for a cure to their extinction though us one way or another. Empyrean technology transfers individual consciousness upon breaching the pod causes a fast scan which fries the brain but preserves the consciousness. As with dust clones they to have to pass the initiation of disposing of the body they where born with. It is also believed that a slow scan can be accomplished allowing empyrean to leave their pods and not get permanently killed but they may forget everything to that last backup. However capsuleers have been permanently killed in the past usually by destroying the clone that is going to replace them and cancelling their clone contracts rarely done by Concord.
Empyrean technology allows a human mind to control massive starships with significantly lesser crew, enhance the ship's performance beyond any star ship captain's wildest dreams net resulting in an extremely cost effective platform. A battleship is normally crewed by up to 12,000 people, all specialist in certain fields of higher degrees of technologies thus on a standard ship crew is very expensive, years of training supplies. Then having that ship destroyed all that training gone. Empyrean controlled battleships can change shield resonances on the fly. harden armor without thinking, activate modules by mere emotion and just by simply directing anger at a target can cause its destruction. It takes nearly 10-20 ships with the best crew any empire navy can put together to fight one empyrean in the same class of ships and that is not even guaranteed victory.
Then there is us. A combination of a customized flash clone and replacement clone with military enchantments that would make a halo spartan-2 jealous. Unlike capsuleers it doesn't matter if when and how we die, our mind transfers to another generic clone. Unlike capsuleers we have any choice of any generic clone, its not some pre-designated body HOWEVER there seems to be a helium 4 fluid router in which the implants are made with involved in handling the data transfer, so its possible to suspend one's data from reaching a new clone. For in station environments for socializing we may have a similar clone to the capsuleers a highly sophicated normal looking humanish clone with the implant still to allow a clone jump to whatever battlefield router is up at location of the fight.
Jump clones are empyrean secondary bodies and serve similar function to our reserve clones in the CRU.
The skill-books are really just software that subconsciously programs our minds, its a slow careful process though and like learning higher concepts basic concepts must first be understood before attempting more difficult rerouting.
you betamax guys are the geeks that keep the rest of us in the loop, cudos on the post mate |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:The consciousness is a very sensitive thing, but something not unlike OP's idea happens to capsuleers, whose pod nuero-feedback systems cause them to essentially become the ship they are flying. It is likely to guess that most of the skillbooks deal with pyschological preparation for existing as a battlecruiser for potentially years on end, and therefore it can be assumed that New Eden technology allows infantry to take on a different physical form as well. The first faction to make use of this is the Sansha - ever seen the True Slave computer item? The person has become a datasystem, and only snaps out of it for long enough to frown for a second. In the same vein, I expect Sansha MTACs to be operated by heads-in-jars...
Of course, even though we can shift the consciousness to a new clone, I do not recollect any technology that allows the "soul" to enter anything else - a requirement for OP vision. The Sansha have subverted this by making use of head-in-jar technology, but that is far too macabre for the Four Empires or CONCORD.
what's this about "souls"? never read anything about them in the EVE backstories. further explanation and definition of the "soul" required |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:i want to be a terminator!! The T-800 (Arnie's / Sam "JakeSully" Worthington's) were biological bodies with Terminator endoskeletons, with what was basically a Sansha-style implant controlling them. So in theory, we could be made into Terminators, even though dropsuit technology actually renders the Terminator system obsolete.
P.S. they are T-800s right?
P.P.S. Octopus? ah well, at least you aren't a fish with eyeglasses... A high school teacher pulled out an old Don Knotts movie that involved that particular kind of thing (yes, THAT Don Knotts) |
Michael Cratar
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
179
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Since our minds are instantly copy/pasted in new bodies when we die, we're not bound to any one body. There is no reason that we can't have genetically engineered bodies designed and specialized for specific roles; I don't mean like a superman, but something not even human like.
We could have like 6 arms to hold more guns. We could have bodies with leg setups similar to a tiger beetle (fastest animal for its size), and we could be like a centaur insect. For oceanic planets, we could have bodies similar to giant octopuses. We could also have bodies like pterodactyls designed for souring in the air.
I know Earth creatures are not relevant or known anymore, but these are just examples. EVE has its own flora and fauna for engineering lessons.
Crazy body types could further be augmented by dropsuits designed to fit them, and modules to maximize efficiency for whatever role.
I hear Jovians are really into genetic modification, I imagine they'd do something like this if they ever needed ground soldiers.
EDIT: If our new bodies go horribly wrong like with the Jovians, it doesn't matter since they are disposable and replaceable. Battlefield assets (like genetically engineered bodies) likely have to be thoroughly tested to make sure it doesn't mess up. Manufacturers would thoroughly test the bodies anyway to make sure they don't anger and get abandoned by their customers.
EDIT 2: Regarding incompatibility issues, it keeps coming up in the thread and I don't want to keep addressing it again and again0 so I'll add it here. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain in the creature clone, but with new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues.
Finally somebody brought this up! Ok, here are my thoughts.
I still think this immortal tec is still very controversial in new Eden. Moral questions are still being asked like "Is this right?", or "are we going too far?" On the other hand, a lot of people don't care.
As for body modification. you have to think about the physiological effects this might have. if it is a modified human body it should not take long to get accustomed to and should not have many *if any at all* side effects. But if you were something inhuman, it might take longer to learn how to use the body and could have severe physiological effects. Also, if it was a slightly modified clone of yourself. you already know how to use your body so the learning curve for the slight adjustments will be very low. Allowing you to be more effective, faster.
I think it is much easier to modify equipment than it is to modify a human body or make a whole new creature.
You also got to think. if you make a creature. what is stopping it from forming its own consciousness. If it dose. What do you do with it? |
|
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:i want to be a terminator!! The T-800 (Arnie's / Sam "JakeSully" Worthington's) were biological bodies with Terminator endoskeletons, with what was basically a Sansha-style implant controlling them. So in theory, we could be made into Terminators, even though dropsuit technology actually renders the Terminator system obsolete. P.S. they are T-800s right?
only know of the T-1000's, 1001's, and the T-X's srry and we could still transfer bodies upon destruction, it would just be a more durable form
EDIT: the T-800's were the arnold models |
Model T-1001
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:i want to be a terminator!! The T-800 (Arnie's / Sam "JakeSully" Worthington's) were biological bodies with Terminator endoskeletons, with what was basically a Sansha-style implant controlling them. So in theory, we could be made into Terminators, even though dropsuit technology actually renders the Terminator system obsolete. P.S. they are T-800s right? only know of the T-1000's, 1001's, and the T-X's srry and we could still transfer bodies upon destruction, it would just be a more durable form EDIT: the T-800's were the arnold models
The slaved human models were found to be too independent, experiment, terminated. |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote: and we could still transfer bodies upon destruction, it would just be a more durable form EDIT: the T-800's were the arnold models
Until you want to shield-tank... And yes, you could still clonejump, but the dropsuit is more heavily armored than something that has to be the size of a skeleton, and is easier to upgrade at will than something that is inside the clone.
However, I don't see anything wrong with a T-800 wearing a dropsuit - Might give us a little more meatbag health to work with...
P.S. oh great, that is probably what the Sansha have been kidnapping bodies for - to throw at us waves of T-800-style soldiers that are also wearing dropsuits. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:35:00 -
[54] - Quote
Michael Cratar wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Since our minds are instantly copy/pasted in new bodies when we die, we're not bound to any one body. There is no reason that we can't have genetically engineered bodies designed and specialized for specific roles; I don't mean like a superman, but something not even human like.
We could have like 6 arms to hold more guns. We could have bodies with leg setups similar to a tiger beetle (fastest animal for its size), and we could be like a centaur insect. For oceanic planets, we could have bodies similar to giant octopuses. We could also have bodies like pterodactyls designed for souring in the air.
I know Earth creatures are not relevant or known anymore, but these are just examples. EVE has its own flora and fauna for engineering lessons.
Crazy body types could further be augmented by dropsuits designed to fit them, and modules to maximize efficiency for whatever role.
I hear Jovians are really into genetic modification, I imagine they'd do something like this if they ever needed ground soldiers.
EDIT: If our new bodies go horribly wrong like with the Jovians, it doesn't matter since they are disposable and replaceable. Battlefield assets (like genetically engineered bodies) likely have to be thoroughly tested to make sure it doesn't mess up. Manufacturers would thoroughly test the bodies anyway to make sure they don't anger and get abandoned by their customers.
EDIT 2: Regarding incompatibility issues, it keeps coming up in the thread and I don't want to keep addressing it again and again0 so I'll add it here. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain in the creature clone, but with new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Finally somebody brought this up! Ok, here are my thoughts. I still think this immortal tec is still very controversial in new Eden. Moral questions are still being asked like "Is this right?", or "are we going too far?" On the other hand, a lot of people don't care. As for body modification. you have to think about the physiological effects this might have. if it is a modified human body it should not take long to get accustomed to and should not have many *if any at all* side effects. But if you were something inhuman, it might take longer to learn how to use the body and could have severe physiological effects. Also, if it was a slightly modified clone of yourself. you already know how to use your body so the learning curve for the slight adjustments will be very low. Allowing you to be more effective, faster. I think it is much easier to modify equipment than it is to modify a human body or make a whole new creature. You also got to think. if you make a creature. what is stopping it from forming its own consciousness. If it dose. What do you do with it?
We are a wee bit ahead of this culture trend...
Current culture trend these days is one of absolute fear. Imagine shooting a guy dead, the next day hes back and hes pissed. Now imagine no matter what you do you cannot kill this man... This man has no fear either, and no regards to you, nobody can really tell him what is right and what is wrong and if he has to nuke a station just to get back at you, he will.
Emperyians are considered to be remorseless Demigods. We are their angles of war, it may take a while for us to start having the just as awful though processes, but we either start breaking down our humanity or our humanity starts breaking us down. Imagine trying to seek death, but not finding it?
As for you last question... we exterminate it with extreme vigor. We accidentally did this once and now we're their food source. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 07:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Since our minds are instantly copy/pasted in new bodies when we die, we're not bound to any one body. There is no reason that we can't have genetically engineered bodies designed and specialized for specific roles; I don't mean like a superman, but something not even human like.
We could have like 6 arms to hold more guns. We could have bodies with leg setups similar to a tiger beetle (fastest animal for its size), and we could be like a centaur insect. For oceanic planets, we could have bodies similar to giant octopuses. We could also have bodies like pterodactyls designed for souring in the air.
I know Earth creatures are not relevant or known anymore, but these are just examples. EVE has its own flora and fauna for engineering lessons.
Crazy body types could further be augmented by dropsuits designed to fit them, and modules to maximize efficiency for whatever role.
I hear Jovians are really into genetic modification, I imagine they'd do something like this if they ever needed ground soldiers.
EDIT: If our new bodies go horribly wrong like with the Jovians, it doesn't matter since they are disposable and replaceable. Battlefield assets (like genetically engineered bodies) likely have to be thoroughly tested to make sure it doesn't mess up. Manufacturers would thoroughly test the bodies anyway to make sure they don't anger and get abandoned by their customers.
EDIT 2: Regarding incompatibility issues, it keeps coming up in the thread and I don't want to keep addressing it again and again0 so I'll add it here. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain in the creature clone, but with new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Finally somebody brought this up! Ok, here are my thoughts. I still think this immortal tec is still very controversial in new Eden. Moral questions are still being asked like "Is this right?", or "are we going too far?" On the other hand, a lot of people don't care. As for body modification. you have to think about the physiological effects this might have. if it is a modified human body it should not take long to get accustomed to and should not have many *if any at all* side effects. But if you were something inhuman, it might take longer to learn how to use the body and could have severe physiological effects. Also, if it was a slightly modified clone of yourself. you already know how to use your body so the learning curve for the slight adjustments will be very low. Allowing you to be more effective, faster. I think it is much easier to modify equipment than it is to modify a human body or make a whole new creature. You also got to think. if you make a creature. what is stopping it from forming its own consciousness. If it dose. What do you do with it? We are a wee bit ahead of this culture trend... Current culture trend these days is one of absolute fear. Imagine shooting a guy dead, the next day hes back and hes pissed. Now imagine no matter what you do you cannot kill this man... This man has no fear either, and no regards to you, nobody can really tell him what is right and what is wrong and if he has to nuke a station just to get back at you, he will. Emperyians are considered to be remorseless Demigods. We are their angles of war, it may take a while for us to start having the just as awful though processes, but we either start breaking down our humanity or our humanity starts breaking us down. Imagine trying to seek death, but not finding it? As for you last question... we exterminate it with extreme vigor. We accidentally did this once and now we're their food source.
the furries? |
G Torq
ALTA B2O
88
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 10:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
Barnabas Wrex wrote:I thought I was a robot.... Am I human wearing a suit? The rest of us are humans ..... in your case, the jury is still out |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
89
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 14:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:This is why we suspect Sansha ships as of late have gotten extremely dangerous.
When you attempt to marry a consciousness into a ship without the proper genetics that makes them emperyan they suffer a condition known as watergraving, thus can never be unplugged ever.
Sansha kidnapped a few million people in the opening days of his return and this is likely what he did with those poor souls scooped the important parts of individuality out of their brains and water-graved them all.
As for us we are just as capable of embodiment as the empyrean are. Why do you think your drop suit gets 5% more effective health armor points when you train up the field mechanics skill? The largest ships we may be commanding with our minds is probably the MCC. I wonder what would happen if they captured some Dust mercs... |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:The consciousness is a very sensitive thing, but something not unlike OP's idea happens to capsuleers, whose pod nuero-feedback systems cause them to essentially become the ship they are flying. It is likely to guess that most of the skillbooks deal with pyschological preparation for existing as a battlecruiser for potentially years on end, and therefore it can be assumed that New Eden technology allows infantry to take on a different physical form as well. The first faction to make use of this is the Sansha - ever seen the True Slave computer item? The person has become a datasystem, and only snaps out of it for long enough to frown for a second. In the same vein, I expect Sansha MTACs to be operated by heads-in-jars...
Of course, even though we can shift the consciousness to a new clone, I do not recollect any technology that allows the "soul" to enter anything else - a requirement for OP vision. The Sansha have subverted this by making use of head-in-jar technology, but that is far too macabre for the Four Empires or CONCORD. what's this about "souls"? never read anything about them in the EVE backstories. further explanation and definition of the "soul" required
Make you wonder about star trek teleporters now doesn't it? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent?
Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpg
Also I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form.
Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech. |
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