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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.02.03 00:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since our minds are instantly copy/pasted in new bodies when we die, we're not bound to any one body. There is no reason that we can't have genetically engineered bodies designed and specialized for specific roles; I don't mean like a superman, but something not even human like.
We could have like 6 arms to hold more guns. We could have bodies with leg setups similar to a tiger beetle (fastest animal for its size), and we could be like a centaur insect. For oceanic planets, we could have bodies similar to giant octopuses. We could also have bodies like pterodactyls designed for souring in the air.
I know Earth creatures are not relevant or known anymore, but these are just examples. EVE has its own flora and fauna for engineering lessons.
Crazy body types could further be augmented by dropsuits designed to fit them, and modules to maximize efficiency for whatever role.
I hear Jovians are really into genetic modification, I imagine they'd do something like this if they ever needed ground soldiers.
EDIT: If our new bodies go horribly wrong like with the Jovians, it doesn't matter since they are disposable and replaceable. Battlefield assets (like genetically engineered bodies) likely have to be thoroughly tested to make sure it doesn't mess up. Manufacturers would thoroughly test the bodies anyway to make sure they don't anger and get abandoned by their customers.
EDIT 2: Regarding incompatibility issues, it keeps coming up in the thread and I don't want to keep addressing it again and again so I'll add it here. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain in the creature clone, but with new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gelan Corbaine wrote:You realize of course what happened to the Jove as a result of their genetic manipulations right ? I think I'll stick with relatively sane enhancements . Or at least as sane as you can get with super solider cloning .
I never got that, seems dumb considering its a genetic disease. If they have genetic expertise, they should be able to fix it. If their genes are damaged beyond repair, why don't they just find samples of their original genes, or at least before they changed so much that they got sick, and start again from there? They could also take a sample from the the 4 main empires also. Also, we're immortal, our bodies are DISPOSABLE. If they're messed up by some terrible genetic glitch, we won't buy the clones, or we'll just suicide and return to normal human body.
EDIT: I also read the disease keeps them from being able to reproduce and grow their numbers. Easily fixed by cloning. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 02:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:I would think it has to do with "you" being human...there would be a lot of psychological trauma that cannot be undone (since it is your "mind" that is being preserved) if you suddenly found yourself in another body that isn't your own (even if you wanted it). Just trying to gain control over the new body would scar your mind, and then there are the body's own instincts and desires that you just cannot understand...even if you found your way back to your own body, you'd be damaged beyond repair, all but useless.
It would be a similar thing, maybe to a slightly lesser extent, if your "mind" were to be thrown into another human's body/clone...there are things about it, even though it is human, that you just won't be able to understand or control properly.
I wonder if your "mind" is even compatible with any body but your own...most likely not.
You make a good point, though I think new brain systems that combine human memory and personality parts with motor control and the right sensory processing parts (based on the senses available on that body) could be bioengineered if you were advanced enough to bioengineer entirely new creatures from scratch. So I think the compatibility issue could be bypassed.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Human Phsyce has to require a human body still.
While I think it would be cool to have wolf ears and that, the lore reasons where already stated before and the gallente found out the hard way you can't do what you mentioned. link so i can read plz? It was a dev post years ago... I would be a needle in a haystack find. Damn, I want to read it . Can you say the jist of what happened please? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 03:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gullegubben wrote:According to the novel "Templar One", which goes into some detail on the development of the cloning system, the somewhat modified human brain shape found on a stored Sleeper in one of their stations was a required part of the cloning system.
In EVE Online, normal bodies can be interfaced and their consciousnesses downloaded into cloned bodies thanks to the "pod", the containment system that holds capsuleer pilots in their ships. This system is capable of downloading the state of every neuron in the brain and transmitting it through a network to a medical cloning bay, which holds custom copies of the pilot's body.
To shrink this huge and advanced system into something that can fit in a skull is no easy task, and required some... interesting modifications. This technology was developed, but isn't easily modified, and can't currently be adapted to brains of non-human origin by any of the Empires. So sorry, no giant octopus bodies for dustbunnies. At least not yet.
What if the brain of the creature was a human brain with extra parts connected to it to allow for sensory processing and motor control, and the uneeded parts only relevant for specifically a human body was disabled? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 03:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mars El'Theran wrote:Our combat clones are already engineered. As for six arms, who's to say you'd have any idea how to use them? Your mind is still a Human pattern after all, and it stands to reason that your hosts mind should be too. Even if you had 6 arms, the chance is the other 4 would just hang limply at your sides. I already mentioned it before twice in the thread how it could work. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain, but new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 03:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well basically the guy was asking to have his mind shoved into a slaver hound body and the dev replied the 'human mind' couldn't handle that transition despite that we handle the transition into 'ships' all the time as their bodies but its all because the ships where built to the accommodation the mind entirely in its raw interfaces as though sitting at the ships own consoles or something.
It maybe just because somewhere in that machinery the subconscious is still aware of the frail human body inside that pod.
I guess the best guess as to reason not why would be to google up phantom limbs.
However if they offered wolf shaped helmets for aurum I so buy up on that.
scifi furries |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Mars El'Theran wrote:Our combat clones are already engineered. As for six arms, who's to say you'd have any idea how to use them? Your mind is still a Human pattern after all, and it stands to reason that your hosts mind should be too. Even if you had 6 arms, the chance is the other 4 would just hang limply at your sides. I already mentioned it before twice in the thread how it could work. Human brain parts essential for personality and memory remain, but new parts are bioengineered for motor control and sensory processing of the nonhuman body. If you were advanced enough to bioengineer an entirely new creature, you may be advanced enough to bioengineer brain components and solve the neurological compatibility issues. Actually, I think it would fail not based on the brain, but based on the "you". Your "mind" doesn't have the knowledge of extra arms or another body, so forcing you into something alien would be a shock; at the very best, you'd have to go through a long period of time adjusting to your new form until you've become comfortable in it (though you'd probably never be as good as with your real body), at worst, you've just fried your mind (kinda like a capsuleer going into a clone way to "small" for them when podded), and going back to your body won't fix it. It would take years and years of research to find just how to fix that problem, IMO, since its not possible to "skill" for it until enough people that have gone through the process and given up their knowledge (or something like that...no clue how they work lol) I see the mind, or "identity" as a process or actions actively performed by the brain, and that the mind is not an entity. Changing the brain should change how the actions (or mind) being performed. I think the right brain changes would definitely solve the issue you bring up. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Regarding your question about clone updating, I have no idea. Never played EVE, just dabbled in lore. It may well be that the way I think of the mind isn't how the EVE writers think of it. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks for the clone info Iron. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 18:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Can someone explain why the Jovians can't just use genetic engineering to fix themselves? According to what I read, the disease effects their reproduction so they can't grow their numbers much. Can't they easily get a base human sample untainted by the disease from the races, and use that that (and edit it if they must) to make a new breed of Jovians? Can't they diagnose the code responsible from the disease? They had thousands of years to experiment with it in a controlled stetting and figure it out. Can't they substitute natural reproduction wit cloning?
The disease is the only thing keeping their current empire from flourishing because of reproductive problems it causes. Are Jovians just incompetent? Jovians are so evolved it be hard to call them human. Why the last time I saw one, they had translucent clammy skin. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110542692_6294773d7c.jpgAlso I believe Jovians went above and beyond the concept of human by their own tinkering. Why reproduce when you can clone the next generation? why have one heart? lets have two! Why have emotion? they get in the way of higher thinking! The simple fact they have the technology to do this quickly, effectively and over their own life times is what caused the 'condition' in the first place where the experiments can take them no further in development and in the process not only have they lost their humanity but probably what it means to be a functional life form. Nobody has seen a living Jovian in 8 years, all have been prerecorded smart AI personalities, message boxes, and left over tech.
These changes may make them deviate enough to not be considered human, but they still look like us more than we look like chimps. I would guess the genetic difference would have to be less than a few percents (2-5%). Much of our genes could be useful for fixing their genetic problems.
Experiments can be done by growing new Jovians, and copy/paste different genetic codes from humans into Joves (from where our genes are different), or copy/paste Jove genetic code into humans, and keep going until they find out the root cause of the disease. If its a combination of multiple Jove genes, then they could try countless combinations of gene switching for a few hundred years on a mass scale until they find the root cause. If those genes code for traits that are essential to Jovian identity, then the gene can be re-engeneered to fix the problem while still producing the Jove traits, or new genes could be made to deal with the problem.
And seriously, why don't they just clone themselves to repopulate to get back their former glory? According to this, the lack of numbers is the only thing keeping them back from it.
Do they just not care about the disease? have they lost the innate drive to persist? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 19:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
But it should have been fixable before they died out (if they indeed died out). They had more than enough time, stupid Jovians. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 20:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
CLOSEDBETA TSTR-est E3 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Gelan Corbaine wrote:You realize of course what happened to the Jove as a result of their genetic manipulations right ? I think I'll stick with relatively sane enhancements . Or at least as sane as you can get with super solider cloning . I never got that, seems dumb considering its a genetic disease. If they have genetic expertise, they should be able to fix it. If their genes are damaged beyond repair, why don't they just find samples of their original genes, or at least before they changed so much that they got sick, and start again from there? They could also take a sample from the the 4 main empires also. Also, we're immortal, our bodies are DISPOSABLE. If they're messed up by some terrible genetic glitch, we won't buy the clones, or we'll just suicide and return to normal human body. EDIT: I also read the disease keeps them from being able to reproduce and grow their numbers. Easily fixed by cloning. They were manipulating the genes for generations...there were no origninals.In the end its what happens when you dont have enough genetic diversity.Everyone gets sick and dies from the same cold instead of some beating the virus and surviving thereby passing on the antibodies. I point to the bubonic plague as an example.
They had access to the other races for genetic samples to use in place of "original" as a base to work from, or for diagnostic purposes. I describe how it could work here.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 20:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Who says they didn't try? Good point. It would be a dumb way to die, being gods of genetic manipulation, yet still fail at fixing a genetic problem. I'm inclined to think the disease affected them in such a way that it made them unable to care about their own survival; I think that's the best way I can rationalize it. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 06:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
usrevenge2 wrote:I would like to be a giant enemy crab.
Why not Zoidberg? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 20:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:god that would be hell on the psyche, not impossible tho you are right. that said they are in the first year of research on this tech, and have a lot of other problems to work out(both IRNL and in the game). but thta would be cool to see.
some one wanted to know what ccp will do after seven years??? this might be it.
I didn't make this thread to seriously request it, its mostly just thinking about the lore, but that would be one hell of an expansion. It would be sooo much content.
Each organism type would have skills needed to operate. Each would have many racial dropsuits per role.
Mollusk: fast in water Insectoid: 4 arms (dual weilding) Human: medium at everything Lizard: climing bonus (maybe) Avians: capable of short flight
INSECTOIDS Insectoid body > assault > Caldari Insectoid body > assault > Gallente Insectoid body > assault > Minmatar Insectoid body > assault >Amarr
Insectoid body > logistics > Caldari Insectoid body > logistics > Gallente Insectoid body > logistics > Minmatar Insectoid body > logistics > Amarr
Insectoid body > scout > Caldari Insectoid body > scout >Gallente Insectoid body > scout >Minmatar Insectoid body > scout >Amarr
Insectoid body > scout > heavy > Caldari Insectoid body > scout >Gallente Insectoid body > scout >Minmatar Insectoid body > scout >Amarr
Insectoid body > pilot > Caldari Insectoid body > pilot > Gallente Insectoid body > pilot > Minmatar Insectoid body > pilot > Amarr
Insectoid body > crusader/command > Caldari Insectoid body > crusader/command > Gallente Insectoid body > crusader/command > Minmatar Insectoid body > crusader/command > Amarr
MOLLUSK mollusk body > assault > Caldari mollusk body > assault > Gallente mollusk body > assault > Minmatar mollusk body > assault >Amarr
mollusk body > logistics > Caldari mollusk body > logistics > Gallente mollusk body > logistics > Minmatar mollusk body > logistics > Amarr
mollusk body > scout > Caldari mollusk body > scout >Gallente mollusk body > scout >Minmatar mollusk body > scout >Amarr
mollusk body > scout > heavy > Caldari mollusk body > scout >Gallente mollusk body > scout >Minmatar mollusk body > scout >Amarr
mollusk body > pilot > Caldari mollusk body > pilot > Gallente mollusk body > pilot > Minmatar mollusk body > pilot > Amarr
mollusk body > crusader/command > Caldari mollusk body > crusader/command > Gallente mollusk body > crusader/command > Minmatar mollusk body > crusader/command > Amarr
LIZARD Lizard body > assault > Caldari Lizard body > assault > Gallente Lizard body > assault > Minmatar Lizard body > assault >Amarr
Lizard body > logistics > Caldari Lizard body > logistics > Gallente Lizard body > logistics > Minmatar Lizard body > logistics > Amarr
Lizard body > scout > Caldari Lizard body > scout >Gallente Lizard body > scout >Minmatar Lizard body > scout >Amarr
Lizard body > scout > heavy > Caldari Lizard body > scout >Gallente Lizard body > scout >Minmatar Lizard body > scout >Amarr
Lizard body > pilot > Caldari Lizard body > pilot > Gallente Lizard body > pilot > Minmatar Lizard body > pilot > Amarr
Lizard body > crusader/command > Caldari Lizard body > crusader/command > Gallente Lizard body > crusader/command > Minmatar Lizard body > crusader/command > Amarr
HUMAN what we already have
AVIANS avian body > assault > Caldari avian body > assault > Gallente avian body > assault > Minmatar avian body > assault >Amarr
avian body > logistics > Caldari avian body > logistics > Gallente avian body > logistics > Minmatar avian body > logistics > Amarr
avian body > scout > Caldari avian body > scout >Gallente avian body > scout >Minmatar avian body > scout >Amarr
avian body > scout > heavy > Caldari avian body > scout >Gallente avian body > scout >Minmatar avian body > scout >Amarr
avian body > pilot > Caldari avian body > pilot > Gallente avian body > pilot > Minmatar avian body > pilot > Amarr
avian body > crusader/command > Caldari avian body > crusader/command > Gallente avian body > crusader/command > Minmatar avian body > crusader/command > Amarr |
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