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mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
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Posted - 2013.01.22 03:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
The DPS argument is stupid when it comes to MD vs AR. Take an average AR user, if they are shooting at a moving target, they will miss with a number of their rounds. DPS is not an end all be all stat. Particularly if you miss with 1/3 of your shots. Or even 1/2 your shots. (depending on their aim)
With the MD, even if your aim isn't great, once you get the hang of it, you just have to get close. Getting close, nets you splash damage. Getting close with an AR, nets you jack ****. And getting close is easy with MD, you just shoot at the ground in front/behind and left/right. No direct hits necessary, just a few near misses, and the target is dead.
Truth is, the MD has had a couple buffs. (not just 1) It currently IS OP. It needs one of those buffs reversed. (not both, because it may be underpowered again, if that happened.)
I'd say EITHER reduce the rounds per drum back down to original numbers (2 less than currently) OR Reduce the splash damage radius to prior levels. This way, the shooters aim has to be pretty good, and someone with crap aim only gets marginal effect. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 03:48:00 -
[62] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Suggestions meaning little from someone who has never used the weapon.
Mass driver splash does pathetic damage. In order to get decent hits you have to land the ***** within two meters even with mass driver operation 5. And you have to do this with a round that doesn't travel in a straight line.
Plus assault suits and logi suits with any sort of shield extender setup pretty much chump MDs unless the MD can either get a lot of shots off accurately OR nail them with flux grenades.
Plus getting solid accuracy doesn't happen much past twenty meters. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.01.22 04:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:The DPS argument is stupid when it comes to MD vs AR. Take an average AR user, if they are shooting at a moving target, they will miss with a number of their rounds. DPS is not an end all be all stat. Particularly if you miss with 1/3 of your shots. Or even 1/2 your shots. (depending on their aim)
With the MD, even if your aim isn't great, once you get the hang of it, you just have to get close. Getting close, nets you splash damage. Getting close with an AR, nets you jack ****. And getting close is easy with MD, you just shoot at the ground in front/behind and left/right. No direct hits necessary, just a few near misses, and the target is dead.
Truth is, the MD has had a couple buffs. (not just 1) It currently IS OP. It needs one of those buffs reversed. (not both, because it may be underpowered again, if that happened.)
I'd say EITHER reduce the rounds per drum back down to original numbers (2 less than currently) OR Reduce the splash damage radius to prior levels. This way, the shooters aim has to be pretty good, and someone with crap aim only gets marginal effect.
You realize that the AR is hitscan right? your shots instantly hit a soon as you pull the trigger. MD however is a slow moving projectile with a very curved trajectory. This makes splash radius and damage totally fair.
The range argument is pretty weak. An MD has an advantage at close range, but an AR has an advantage against the MD user at mid-long range. Every gun has a range they excel at, the fact that the MD has a range where it kicks ass is not a problem at all considering how it becomes almost useless at mid-long range. You could actually beat an MD user in close range if you can do over 1 whole second of hitting your target because of the higher DPS, and its really hard to miss at close range. MD dominated is close range, yet you can still beat it with less than 2 seconds of hitting your target.
It takes at least 3 hits of splash damage (115) to kill someone, which is 3 seconds at least; not only can this be avoided by just jumping in the air to avoid the splash, but the AR user needs less than 2 seconds, so f your AR aim is good (which it should be ant close range) then you should win.
Ever thought maybe those mass driver users didn't miss? that they were intending to hurt you with splash damage? It isn't missing if its intentional.
Seriously, jumping up in the air, and dealing less than 2 seconds of damage at close range is not that hard. What's next, AR users are going to complain that shotguns are too good at close range? |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 04:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Check this out! Tear battalion! PRESENT ARMS!
QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7 QQ7
Now you have people to help you cry out that everything but the AR needs a nerf. Talk to them, because they don't think it's fair that people will disagree with you.
So tired of the nerf threads. The proper method of dealing with a weapon that you suck at surviving the answer is to incorporate it into your tactical doctrine for your corporation.
This is not a standard FPS. |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 04:43:00 -
[65] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:Man no fair all the good points to defend the MD are already pointed out I got nothing to add now.
Guess I gotta get to the forums faster. lol Goat, I was just thinking the same thing.
By the way, you probably don't recall it but you and I fought a great MD duel the other day. I have been waiting for a while to meet you like that on the field. Great fun!
And pertaining to the string: Deadpool, there have been many times during this beta that I have disagreed with your position, but every post you've made in this string is spot on. Thanks to you and all the rest carrying the banner for those of us slinging this terrifically challenging and fun weapon. |
Enalie
Gentlemen's Foreign Legion Gentlemen's Agreement
4
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Posted - 2013.01.22 04:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
My suggestions for Mass Driver tuning involves a slight nerf to the current version, and adding a couple of more specialized variants. The numbers are purely fictional for the moment, and would probably be absolutely terrible if actually implemented as such (they're meant to be a guid
All mass drivers: Establish a minimum range for detonation. (About 10 meters or so)
Base Model: Slightly reduced rate of fire from current build ( maybe 45-55 RPM) Damage, range, splash, and magazine size unchanged unchanged
Variant 1: High DPS, low ROF Low rate of fire (35-40 RPM) Higher damage (20-30% more than base) Tight splash radius (2 meters?) Smaller clip Slower projectile speed (making it harder to accurately hit targets at range)
Variant 2: Wide range Higher rate of fire (60-65 RPM) Significantly lower damage (Half of base model) Wider splash range (5-6 meters) Clip size unchanged
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Goat of Dover
Shadow Company HQ
161
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 05:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:Goat of Dover wrote:Man no fair all the good points to defend the MD are already pointed out I got nothing to add now.
Guess I gotta get to the forums faster. lol Goat, I was just thinking the same thing. By the way, you probably don't recall it but you and I fought a great MD duel the other day. I have been waiting for a while to meet you like that on the field. Great fun! And pertaining to the string: Deadpool, there have been many times during this beta that I have disagreed with your position, but every post you've made in this string is spot on. Thanks to you and all the rest carrying the banner for those of us slinging this terrifically challenging and fun weapon.
Thank you and actually I remember most of the MD users that I come across on the battlefield and the name sanchez is ringing quite a bell. I hope to run across you again, maybe raining hell for the same team next time though. lol |
BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
95
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Posted - 2013.01.22 06:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
DEADPOOL5241 wrote:BMSTUBBY wrote:Tittle MD as a secondary weapon and give them only two rounds before they have to reload. LOL at this suggestion, guess some ones died to many times to a MD. You COD tryhards need to get off your AR horse and learn there are other weapons in games. HTFU merc.
Nope I do not die by them very often at all, because most of the time I kill the Merc using it before he can spam me with noob tubes.
Now you HTFU noob tube lover. Derp Derp! |
Ted Nugget
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
74
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 06:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
treat them like anything else that kills infantry really good and ruins the so called elites chance at owning with an ar... nerf the damage to **** and nerf the splash radius to a point to where you have to hit bullseye everytime..... let me guess you guys that put your precious sp in mass drivers wont like this.. just like i didnt like it when i put all my sp into smething and it gets nerfed to a point that its uselss.... i say that we go back to the gameplay in the e3 build when the game was actually the funnest |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 06:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:
Nope I do not die by them very often at all, because most of the time I kill the Merc using it before he can spam me with noob tubes.
Now you HTFU noob tube lover. Derp Derp!
Oh come on. you can do better than that. I give you a 1/10 on this retort because it was neither witty nor insightful. You are vomiting catchphrases that have been endlessly recycled and vomited, then eaten up and vomited again by yet more console kiddies over the years.
We demand a higher caliber of jackass and troll. HTFU and troll like a man. |
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lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
282
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 07:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
arimal lavaren wrote:Are we really saying mass driver's need nerfed instead of missiles need a slight radius buff maybe? This community seems to have learned nothing.
Some one is camping the supply depot with a mass driver.
What can we do to fix this problem?
my suggestions;
grab a laser.
grab a sniper.
get friends.
get another mass driver.
or if all else fails
HTFU.
I wish i was an octopus with 5 laser rifles and 3 snipers! Seems that people think its ok for one person to be able to spam t one hit one-3 kill rounds. Its all good though, everybody is doing it, and when the people that benifit from the mass driver are tired of being spammed on themselves,than it will change,but only when that select few gripes. I think its great watching the heavies get owned by the MD now that it seems like 75% of the population is heavy.....curious as to the % of heavy MD useser...that blows. |
Jackof All-Trades
Bojo's School of the Trades
78
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 09:17:00 -
[72] - Quote
I actually think Mass Drivers are the only weapon in the game that seems to have been completed. I've used Mass Drivers a couple of times and blown myself up plenty. Thing with Mass Drivers - bad for long range and extreme close range. AR's simply need to walk away to get distance, and the guy with the Mass Driver has to fire desperately at his elevation, while the AR just simply steps to the side.
Mass Drivers were very overpowered before, but I can't say so anymore. I'll get a better Mass Driver and double check, but I'm having perfect gameplay with the basic Mass Driver. |
Goat of Dover
Shadow Company HQ
161
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:arimal lavaren wrote:Are we really saying mass driver's need nerfed instead of missiles need a slight radius buff maybe? This community seems to have learned nothing.
Some one is camping the supply depot with a mass driver.
What can we do to fix this problem?
my suggestions;
grab a laser.
grab a sniper.
get friends.
get another mass driver.
or if all else fails
HTFU.
I wish i was an octopus with 5 laser rifles and 3 snipers! Seems that people think its ok for one person to be able to spam t one hit one-3 kill rounds. Its all good though, everybody is doing it, and when the people that benifit from the mass driver are tired of being spammed on themselves,than it will change,but only when that select few gripes. I think its great watching the heavies get owned by the MD now that it seems like 75% of the population is heavy.....curious as to the % of heavy MD useser...that blows.
How many people do you guys see that do this triple kill that is co commonly mentioned. I mean I see many people with the AR get consecutive kills up to three all the time and it take less time than the MD any day along with less planing and situational awareness.
Like stated before a lot of people are treating it like it is an AR trying to come straight at it or shoot uphill at it. The MD is devastating from above because you don't have to compensate as much for travel. On flat ground though I have had many AR users beat me from both mid and short range it is not strange at all to see. fighting uphill I have learned to give up on and retreat to engage at a different point. Much like an AR user should learn is not the way to approach the MD either. It is all situational awareness uphill is doable but not you best approach on an MD.
Not to stroke any thing but I am a good MD user ask the people I play with and have played against, no I am not great at the game but I am good with the MD. I am not that skilled with the AR but my KDR doesn't change a whole lot when I switch between the two. So this leads me to believe that people really need to try it out before they make judgements on it being OP. You might need to look at the people killing with the MD this might be the better MD users you are going against, the ones who took the time to learn how to aim it, have better situational awareness, friends to flank with, and all around know how to use the MD to its fullest.
On a serious not I would like to know how many people who call it OP have actually used it more than 10 times. Not to say some haven't just wanted to know how many actually have, hey not even ten just once. |
KA24DERT
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
Mass driver is fine. I rarely survive an encounter with a decent rifle user unless I get the drop on them. Most of my kills from from MD sniping and flanking groups of clustered enemies.
In a direct confrontation, If someone sidesteps just one of my shots, I'm done for.
And I think that's fair. |
James-5955
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
151
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:58:00 -
[75] - Quote
I find that shooting MD users works out pretty well, I've never really had a huge problem with MDs. I've seen people spam from a supply depot before but that's only crowd control and those stupid enough to run and stand in a area of constant explosions deserved to die. Just go to a supply depot and switch out for an AV fit and take out the depot he's using. |
arimal lavaren
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
186
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 18:11:00 -
[76] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:arimal lavaren wrote:Are we really saying mass driver's need nerfed instead of missiles need a slight radius buff maybe? This community seems to have learned nothing.
Some one is camping the supply depot with a mass driver.
What can we do to fix this problem?
my suggestions;
grab a laser.
grab a sniper.
get friends.
get another mass driver.
or if all else fails
HTFU.
I wish i was an octopus with 5 laser rifles and 3 snipers! Seems that people think its ok for one person to be able to spam t one hit one-3 kill rounds. Its all good though, everybody is doing it, and when the people that benifit from the mass driver are tired of being spammed on themselves,than it will change,but only when that select few gripes. I think its great watching the heavies get owned by the MD now that it seems like 75% of the population is heavy.....curious as to the % of heavy MD useser...that blows.
There is a category of equipment known as militia maybe you've seen it, I've heard it's really cheap.
Really now in order for me or any other mass driver user to get this supposed 3 kills with one round, all three of you would have to be practically spooning with your shields already broken and into some amount of armor.
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DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
231
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 18:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:Goat of Dover wrote:Man no fair all the good points to defend the MD are already pointed out I got nothing to add now.
Guess I gotta get to the forums faster. lol Goat, I was just thinking the same thing. By the way, you probably don't recall it but you and I fought a great MD duel the other day. I have been waiting for a while to meet you like that on the field. Great fun! And pertaining to the string: Deadpool, there have been many times during this beta that I have disagreed with your position, but every post you've made in this string is spot on. Thanks to you and all the rest carrying the banner for those of us slinging this terrifically challenging and fun weapon.
Im trying to fight the good fight, bu the opposition is so dead set on Nerfing something they have never tried to use or just want to QQ about MD because of something CCP did to their weapons so they feel the right to come to MD threads and whine.
Like said before, try a MD on a flat surface vs an AR. or AR player is above you, shooting up to a higher elevation, you can't actually hit someone. These things that AR, Tanks players don't get is how a Mass Driver works bother me when they post with a lack of any knowledge.
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Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 20:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
I've said it before, if the MD needed a nerf then you would see a lot more people using them. I haven't logged on a lot this past week, but in the previous weeks I was frequently the only person in a game using the MD. |
Goat of Dover
Shadow Company HQ
161
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
There has been a small in flux of MDs but, it is mostly the same people I see using them not a bunch of different people. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
blow up supply depot? |
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Goat of Dover
Shadow Company HQ
161
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:blow up supply depot?
But that my friend is strategy. |
Grendel Aurelius
Prototype Technology Corp.
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
I very rarely get a 1 shot 1 kill with my MD, and that only happens with the planets align and some ****** runs into a launched grenade head first. I don't typically have very much difficulty killing other players who use a MD against me because of some very simple/fundamental things like taking cover when grenades fly at me.
I've killed clusters of people with several grenades, never just one. If they are stupid enough to keep standing there then really it just seems like MD assisted suicide to me.
The weapon is hard to use compared to an AR and the only thing I wish they would change about it is allowing the grenades to bounce off of things at close range so I can bounce them around a corner. Give you whiney bitches something to really cry about. |
Grendel Aurelius
Prototype Technology Corp.
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:49:00 -
[83] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:blow up supply depot? But that my friend is strategy.
Strategy is OP, nerf it. |
Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:There has been a small in flux of MDs but, it is mostly the same people I see using them not a bunch of different people.
Hopefully I'll find some time to log in this week, I'd like to see the scourge of MD's that have caused these threads to pop up lol |
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:11:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mass drivers are fairly alright the only thing I hate is how when up close they can shoot u directly and kill u in 1 shot with no explosion. The mass drive should have seriosly low velocity rounds with nothing but the explosion to hurt others in a since that unexploded round that didnt reach its arming distance shouldve just bounced off my shields.
I also wouldnt mind if shields gave a little more buffer towards explosions |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
No need to nerf damage....just add reload after two grenades. Or, slow the fire rate |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
215
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:27:00 -
[87] - Quote
develsgun wrote:Mass drivers are fairly alright the only thing I hate is how when up close they can shoot u directly and kill u in 1 shot with no explosion. The mass drive should have seriosly low velocity rounds with nothing but the explosion to hurt others in a since that unexploded round that didnt reach its arming distance shouldve just bounced off my shields.
I also wouldnt mind if shields gave a little more buffer towards explosions
They do have a weakness to shields already.
Im sorry that my MD skills have created so much hate toward the weapon but its the strategy and methodology in which i use the weapon that makes is so freaking awesome not the weapon itself. In the hands of a noob its a failhard. |
Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:32:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:No need to nerf damage....just add reload after two grenades. Or, slow the fire rate
Horrible idea. If you land both shots on the body (and you won't) you'd do about 450 damage which would be immediately followed by a 4 second reload time. More likely you'd land 2 splash damage for 250 damage which would be immediately followed by a 4 second reload time. Sounds like a ton of fun. |
DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
231
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:37:00 -
[89] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:develsgun wrote:Mass drivers are fairly alright the only thing I hate is how when up close they can shoot u directly and kill u in 1 shot with no explosion. The mass drive should have seriosly low velocity rounds with nothing but the explosion to hurt others in a since that unexploded round that didnt reach its arming distance shouldve just bounced off my shields.
I also wouldnt mind if shields gave a little more buffer towards explosions They do have a weakness to shields already. Im sorry that my MD skills have created so much hate toward the weapon but its the strategy and methodology in which i use the weapon that makes is so freaking awesome not the weapon itself. In the hands of a noob its a failhard.
Seriously +1, if I would have known this many cry babies were on Dust I would have brought out my Mass Driver sooner
Curious all of these players that want MD nerfed (god I hate that word), how much EHP do you have? (EHP is shields and armor total), cause if any of us MD users are killing you in one shot, then its not the MD that is the problem, its YOU.
HTFU or STFU, either way... My Mass Driver kills all the boys in the yard, because its better then yours.
DeadpoolGäó |
Morathi III
Rebelles A Quebec
57
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:49:00 -
[90] - Quote
MD is ok, no need to get this weapon less dammage, i dont see a lot of player with this why? I guess because this is a situationnal weapon very good in some situation bad in other i think CCP make a good move if the MD STAY like that |
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