Pretty much title, remove the majority of the starter fits including the free LAV except the Frontline starter fit.

Reasons for the majority of starter suits:
They're simply not needed, we have a sniper fit which allows new players to just sit on the red line and camp without wasting a single bit of ISK/Aur or SP to actually use them. I've sniped a few times and honestly see no reason to go waste cash on anything when I have this available. You then have the free Swarms and Forge Guns yet I see no free tanks or dropships? AV Players say that they're not strong enough to be useful so I'm pretty sure they'd support my arguement, right?

Reason for the LAV:

The vehicle is ridiculous, I can run around and go 20+/0 because I was just running people over. I can use it for free to haul my heavy around and jump out with no issue as I gun people down. Removing this gives a reason not to have free AV but also provides Dropship Pilots/LAV Drivers with a transport use and lowers the possibility of you get ran over by newbs.

Since LAVs are 1-hit-kills when they run over infantry, there needs to be some sort of balancing. LAVs should take some damage when they run over infantry. Not a lot; running over infantry should still remain a viable tactic, but LAVs should take enough to keep people from running over 5 players with the same LAV. I think the damage done to the LAV should be based on the mass of the dropsuit, so that hitting scouts do the least damage to the LAV and hitting heavies do the most damage to the LAV.
I also think it should be possible for a heavy to survive an LAV hit with a sliver health left considering that heavies are very well armored, and they are largely designed to handle vehicles.

If you are reading and you're one of those people who is all about "realism", consider that your car can get damaged if you hit a deer. Consider that people hit by cars can survive. Same can apply to scifi armored cars and scifi armored people.

There needs to be at least 1 free vehicle for transportation purposes.

because we all know that new players don't want starter fits relevant to their chosen class role. We also know they like to have to pay 80-90% of their ISK to replace their starter fits instead of grinding for skillbooks and better gear.

Starter LAV needs to be removed. No, you absolutely do not need any free vehicles in this game. If you want to get somewhere, run. If you want to get somewhere fast, that you gotta pay for, if not then hitch a ride on a friendly vehicle. Free LAVs offer a stupid, ****** way for people to get kills, and they trivialize dropships as transportation vehicles even more than they are currently. This isn't to say that LAV ramming is fine if LAVs cost money -- and the above suggestion of making them take a bit of damage while still instantly killing all non-heavies is an essentially useless fix -- but the idea that you are entitled to be able to cruise around for free is silly.

As for starter fits, the starter sniper fit is ridiculous because snipers are ridiculous. It's not a problem of cost, it's a problem with these weapons being immensely powerful. Even if they removed starter snipers, you get essentially the same mileage out of all-militia gear and a sniper rifle, as careful snipers will die few if any times in a match. At that point, whether your sniper fitting is free or cost 7k is basically unimportant.

I could live without the free starter kits

But would the BPO also go for milita things? also what would cost ISK? or would it be everything that is milita costs some ISK?

CCP please keep the starter fits how else is a free to play game going to Work.If new players run out of money and haven't learned to make a load out yet?Remember no UVT for new players 7000 Aur.They will have even less comuncation with the player base.

-1

I think people need to see the kinds of options that are available and what fits can look like.

I don't see how removing them fixes any problems other than some people dislike snipers. Removing them would actually encourage more people to STAY snipers if all they get is the Arbiter fit.

So all starter fits go

You still have BPOs and the like except you have to go to the marketplace and buy them then go to fitting

So really you want new players to figure it out for themselves?

Pretty much title, remove the majority of the starter fits including the free LAV except the Frontline starter fit.

Reasons for the majority of starter suits:
They're simply not needed, we have a sniper fit which allows new players to just sit on the red line and camp without wasting a single bit of ISK/Aur or SP to actually use them. I've sniped a few times and honestly see no reason to go waste cash on anything when I have this available. You then have the free Swarms and Forge Guns yet I see no free tanks or dropships? AV Players say that they're not strong enough to be useful so I'm pretty sure they'd support my arguement, right?

Reason for the LAV:

The vehicle is ridiculous, I can run around and go 20+/0 because I was just running people over. I can use it for free to haul my heavy around and jump out with no issue as I gun people down. Removing this gives a reason not to have free AV but also provides Dropship Pilots/LAV Drivers with a transport use and lowers the possibility of you get ran over by newbs.

+1 to Murder/Heavy taxis they are getting old. F@T @ss heavys should have to sp into LAV. (im saying this and my secondary is a heavy) even though its easy killing hoping out of a LAV.

+1 to sniper starter kit's there are way to many snipers in this game already. CCP need to make player cap at 32 X 32 soon because one quarter of the mercs already are snipers in a game and if it was 32X32 us guys on the ground.... were the metal meets the meat will have some help for once.

My suggestion would be to remove the turret from the free LAV as well as the default modules. This would make the free version just a weak transport vehicle. Making the LAV take damage upon hitting infantry will also make them less powerful.

I see where this comes from... its the EVE online mindset where "only paid players should get better stuff".
Everyone sniping isnt because there are loadouts. Theyll still do that if you remove it.
Its a low risk commitment where you rarely die to hmg or ar spraying maniacs who seems to lock onto ya like aimbots.

The starter lav is useless as a actual vehicle. Imagine ps3 users driving them on gamepads. Theyll be crashing into walls and such because the thing is driving on ice.

"Work your way up to have fun" is not how it works. Its not eve online.

Pretty much title, remove the majority of the starter fits including the free LAV except the Frontline starter fit.

Reasons for the majority of starter suits:
They're simply not needed, we have a sniper fit which allows new players to just sit on the red line and camp without wasting a single bit of ISK/Aur or SP to actually use them.

I've sniped a few times and honestly see no reason to go waste cash on anything when I have this available.

You then have the free Swarms and Forge Guns yet I see no free tanks or dropships? AV Players say that they're not strong enough to be useful so I'm pretty sure they'd support my arguement, right?

The vehicle is ridiculous, I can run around and go 20+/0 because I was just running people over. I can use it for free to haul my heavy around and jump out with no issue as I gun people down. Removing this gives a reason not to have free AV but also provides Dropship Pilots/LAV Drivers with a transport use and lowers the possibility of you get ran over by newbs.

@Cross

My one issue though, is they get this all for free.
No matter how bad you do, you will get ISK, you can purchase all these weapons in the Militia Section and utilise them but they should never be free.

because we all know that new players don't want starter fits relevant to their chosen class role. We also know they like to have to pay 80-90% of their ISK to replace their starter fits instead of grinding for skillbooks and better gear.

The LAV argument I can see, because militia LAVs are freaking cheap. and abused.

And easy to incinerate.

Reason for the LAV:

The vehicle is ridiculous, I can run around and

I don't get what the problem is. The militia stuff is so cheap that it might as well be free. You can spend an entire round of skirmish jumping out of the MCC and forgetting to press x and still make enough isk to do it another round.

The starter fits say to a new player "this is what you can do, here are examples of loadouts". Load outs are a key feature of this game and need to be illustrated in a cool way to new players.

Seriously though, the free sniper fit is around 2865 isk. A game worth 120,000 isk will net you 41.88 of those clones. Assuming you die instantly on revival and it takes an average of 13 seconds to respawn that is 586.3 seconds or 9.8 minutes, practically an entire match.

They may as well be free. Their importance is for new players and in the event you truly run out of isk. (If you're a dumbass like me and spend it all on vehicles before remember to restock drop suits)

Get over 1000 war points just blowing up LAV spam. FTFY...

I completely disagree with your post. Having more options is good. GIving players something of an introduction to the idea of countering a specific vehicle (LAV) with a specific weapon (Swarm Launcher) is good.

Why in the hell do you want to take away my fun? WHy do you want to make the game only about Assault rifles? THe whole point of Dust is that there is the rock, paper, scissors type of thing in the game and a lot of different choices for tactics and ways to attack other players and ways to defend against those attacks.

Why do so many people that post in these forums want to turn this game into the most boring, generic, insipid and dull shooter imaginable?

I don't understand why so many people cannot read on a forum.

I'm requesting the removal of the Starter Fits, not taking away all the weapons, suits or vehicles, please read and actually understand what I'm saying. My suggestion is really simple, you want to fire something than the most basic of fits? Buy the Militia Variant or actually skill into it.

My reasoning behind it, even though an item is a small amount of isk, it still costs.

You also have to take into account, it's not just the Weapon people will have to pay for, they will have to get their sidearms, their suits, modules or pay for the BPO, if you want an LAV you will need to buy the vehicle and the modules and this all starts to mount up. It makes the game fairer.

they think that because.. without thsoe starter fits, we never get to see what else is out there, you need to understand if we are never exposed, we never see untill its shooting us in the face... chases away people then

Pretty much title, remove the majority of the starter fits including the free LAV except the Frontline starter fit.

Reasons for the majority of starter suits:
They're simply not needed, we have a sniper fit which allows new players to just sit on the red line and camp without wasting a single bit of ISK/Aur or SP to actually use them. I've sniped a few times and honestly see no reason to go waste cash on anything when I have this available. You then have the free Swarms and Forge Guns yet I see no free tanks or dropships? AV Players say that they're not strong enough to be useful so I'm pretty sure they'd support my arguement, right?

Reason for the LAV:

The vehicle is ridiculous, I can run around and go 20+/0 because I was just running people over. I can use it for free to haul my heavy around and jump out with no issue as I gun people down. Removing this gives a reason not to have free AV but also provides Dropship Pilots/LAV Drivers with a transport use and lowers the possibility of you get ran over by newbs.

I don't understand why so many people cannot read on a forum.

I'm requesting the removal of the Starter Fits, not taking away all the weapons, suits or vehicles, please read and actually understand what I'm saying. My suggestion is really simple, you want to fire something than the most basic of fits? Buy the Militia Variant or actually skill into it.

My reasoning behind it, even though an item is a small amount of isk, it still costs.

You also have to take into account, it's not just the Weapon people will have to pay for, they will have to get their sidearms, their suits, modules or pay for the BPO, if you want an LAV you will need to buy the vehicle and the modules and this all starts to mount up. It makes the game fairer.

Ummm, that was kind of a joke. About having nothing to shoot at if they take away free starter LAVs.

But here is the thing. You are talking about changing a part of the game that you have already grown out of so that it meets your needs as a more experienced player.

There are already enough barriers to entry in this game and taking away the free starter gear just presents another barrier to a new player. GIving players a few free things to mess around with doesn't harm this game in any way shape or form. It does allow players to try out more than just an assault rifle with no perceived risk.

Making fittings and buying items from the market is something a lot of players may not want to be bothered with in the first week of playing Dust.

At least one very small part of this game must cater to the broadest possible spectrum of players.

Personally I can't wait for more game options so I can just stop playing Instant battles completely. I want to move on to bigger and better things. I don't feel like I need to dictate how new players should go about their games so instant battle plays out the way I think it should.

Edit* Then again, how in the heck are you getting run over by noobs in an LAV all the time? Unless you are just running around in the open in a heavy suit... which is not a good idea in general.

Already now, this game is very rough to new players. More tutorials etc will solve some of, but stil...

I started the game 0-28, not because i lost 28 straight gun fights, nope, i prolly just lost 4 or 5. The rest of my lost clones came to getting booted from the spawn screen. So i'm not saying starter fits should stay to band aid the glitches of this game, but it should illustrate how you can get broke in this game. I did not make 1 single ISK in the first 1-2h, still i lost clones. Passivly i can only make SP not ISK, without being able to afford 1 single clone i can not even camp the MCC to make some ISK.

With my first spawn i selected my shotgun loadout as the tutorial suggested, encountered an enemy, shot him once, totally scared of the sound it makes, saw him not being dead, despite just being a few feet away from me, which in other shooter normally is a kill, shot a second time, still not dead, but now i am ... of his 3rd tier AR.

My shotgun was gone, i could not use this dropsuit a 2nd time, but got booted at spawn screen anyway.
It took me a while just to figure out that i can buy militia weapons and drop suits for almost nothing, since they do not show up at the regular dropsuit or weapon category on the market place.
Since PSN friends are not DUST friends, i did not even have one single guy to ask for advice, they weren't on anyway at moment, but still...
I thought sooner or later i would run into a few guys i played with on MAG, but for the first two day i did not hear one single guy talk on the mic, and even if i changed to team channel, they could not hear me, in case i encoutered a guy i though i knew from other games.

At first all those different skills and items are totally confusing, makign you waste your starting SP and ISK on things you can not use anyway, or lets say not use effectly.

Now i'm a more experienced player and do not need those free dropsuits anymore. Still i pick the free front line fit, getting a a free militia AR, rather than the standard AR, despite it just costs 4'400 ISK.

And thats why i think the starter fit should go, but not for the new guys. Experienced players should not be able to play with totally free dropsuits, while still getting the skill boni like less recoil, more damage, more ammo etc.

So i think new players should get a rookie status for a while , being able to use those free suits. Once they have spent enough time on this game, having enough ISk, they should atleast be forced to spend a little bit, even if its just cheap militia items, maybe just keeping its role suit for free, if anything, to prevent players to go complety broke, unable to play.

Question is, when is a new player exerienced enough for
-7days after creation of char?
-20h into game?
-after 1'000'000 SP/ISK?
-after 100 deaths, to just give out 100 suits for beginners.

Just then i would support this idea, else it just another elitist pig request, like nerfing the Swarm , because it has AUTO AIM... and AUTO AIM is bad, it just helps the skillless, totally ignoring the purpose of.

"Oh no, I suck at the game let's take stuff out! I can't counter snipe people, or blow up one single LAV..."

-_- it amazes me how badly people cry about this kind of stuff. You guys see impenetrable walls, I see challenges. A little Marine Corps wisdom, adapt and overcome. Cry babies.