Perhaps it is so easy because we are ALL at entry level now?

Just sayin'

Head glitch with swarm lanchers with av grenades that can be thrown like a baseball and it does more damage than all other av weapons..... i call unbalance not beacause i die by it but because it takes absolutely takes no skill and is way too easy to use.
the only av that takes any skill is a forge gun and those players i respect

i mean how hard can it be to just keep line of sights at least for the swarms?

Do i even have to mention the laser, heavies, massdrivers, grenades, sniping, LAV crushing, and shotguns?

CCP why are you lowering your standards and forcing it on us? you were into average women just like the rest of us now you are into hairy BBW which is find for you but NOT FOR ME. ADD SKILL TO THIS GAME-first rule of a FPS. That is where you will get most of your player base

i am not talking about gear im talking about how easy it is to use each item and how childish it is

I too, am not talking about gear. I am talking about skills. We ALL have been playing so long that we are the toughest mercs in New Eden (even if you suck 55.7% of the time like me!). We know what to do and how to use skills and gear to be the hardest of the hard.
When the new influx arrives on the 22nd, I would expect that there will be a significant shift in the games parameters, in regards to play styles encountered on the battlefield.

Head glitch with swarm lanchers with av grenades that can be thrown like a baseball and it does more damage than all other av weapons..... i call unbalance not beacause i die by it but because it takes absolutely takes no skill and is way too easy to use.
the only av that takes any skill is a forge gun and those players i respect

i mean how hard can it be to just keep line of sights at least for the swarms?

Do i even have to mention the laser, heavies, massdrivers, grenades, sniping, LAV crushing, and shotguns?

CCP why are you lowering your standards and forcing it on us? you were into average women just like the rest of us now you are into hairy BBW which is find for you but NOT FOR ME. ADD SKILL TO THIS GAME-first rule of a FPS. That is where you will get most of your player base

I kind of agree. A lot of weapons are pretty simplistic. Sniping is egregiously overpowered, LAV crushing, grenade spamming... DUST has many ways to get kills against basically anyone while requiring the most basic of skill and a tiny amount of effort. I don't have any great suggestions, aside from making sniping involve bullets with travel time, drop, and permanent scope sway even when crouched, but otherwise I imagine this is stuff that'll improve over time. Though certainly assault rifles are an example, with how they have essentially zero kick unless you're holding down the trigger for 30 rounds.

You must be a bad tank driver if your letting people get close enough even with the huge AV nade range, and have you tried moving out of the way?

And really you're complaining about swarms? They barely do any damage to shields and it's so easy to kill someone that's out in the open trying to lock on to you.

Why do you want it to be hard to transition in to a new weapon? I feel the weapons are fine like they are easy to use hard to master.

TL;DR: You're a tank scrub who was hand fed in the earlier builds and are crying for your milk.

Please ignore the unbolded and un-underlined I was just getting out my rage from the recent tank spamming encounters.

It sounds like your idea of what consitutes skill is limited to early-2000s era FPS games, where it was all about putting the dot on the enemy over anything else. There are elements of that to Dust, like the Forge Guns you mentioned, but there's more to having 'skill' in a game than that. For example, the swarms home in in a very lethargic, predictable way, which makes firing them in a way that makes it difficult for the opponent to avoid them a skill. You can just lock on and let rip, like you can just spray and pray, but it takes more than that to read your environment and ensure that there'll be nowhere for the target to hide once you've let go of the trigger. Same with everything else. Broaden your horizons a bit.

So this different feel you want would be what? If you can use a rife in real life you can sufficiently use any two hand weapon with a similar feel, until you get to something firing things larger than bullets such as grenades or rockets. Now you can improve with individual weapons due to different rates of fire, kick, mag size, but if you are good with one you will at least know how to handle the others. Personally I like the balance right now with the guns I just think we need more items variations to be put into the other slots but that will come.

The onoy skill the forge gun takes is in killing infantry with it ... which swarms can't do.

If you think swarms are so easy then specialise in them n see how many times you can get over half way up the leaderboard at the end of a match.

for killing tanks swarms are better not for killing infantry. Why do my posts attract the stupid kids?

Yeah man... It's so dumb that every weapon in the entire game is so overpowered. Why can't they balance all of the equally overpowered guns so that they all are about as strong. It's unfair that I can use {weapon} to damage {enemy}. Why can't Dust be like {game} where {weapon} does nothing to {enemy}.

I would say that hairy BBW is more of a niche market and really takes a refined if not somewhat questionable taste in ladies for one to really appreciate all they have to offer.

Plus, not all hirsute Rubenesque beauties are easy. And the skills that any potential suitor would have to employ, skills that might confound even the most... but I digress...

Yeah, even if the anti super grenade campaign is an Imperfects conspiracy, I agree. The changes to grenade timer etc. were not a step in the right direction.

But you were around for the days of swarm scouts shooting at your feet in replication. At least now you can't run into a building full of the enemy and start spamming swarm fire for 5 easy kills.

The swarm now does what it is supposed to do. Encourage tank drivers to skill up and get the heck out of militia HAVs as soon as they can.

The whole skill thing could go either way. But I really hope they get it right. Look at drop-ships. They made dropships a skill based vehicle. Really good pilots can do amazing things. Most pilots can get around the map a few times. Most players will crash a ship within ten seconds the first time they try to fly.

There is hope yet.

can i put these kids in the lost and found section?

Because they're always stupid whining QQ posts about my tank hurts, why won't you take all the AV out of the game.

I personally think it's a matter of lack of organisation- more or less an arms race, but rotating between the same technology, instead of making better stuff.

It seems that whenever something is "overpowered" the factor that counters it is always missing for one reason or another.
Remember when AV was more common to see, but there were always non-AVers easily killing them?
Whatever happened to the anti-AVers that would always find and curbstomp AVers?

ok lets talk swarm launchers. they have the range to shoot across the map, they become invisible after a certain range, you can fire them even if there is a soild structure infront of the person firing it, and the greatest thing of all is you can lock on to a vehicle through a soild object as long as you just see the vehicle every 2-3 seconds....
sorry you are an idiot and dont understand balance, maybe next time your parents wont drop you

You seem to be missing the point of the post. I shall enlighten you. The point is that, yes, the weapons do damage. Some are better in some circumstances, some are better in others. Some weapons beat some things, some beat others. I'm a gamer that comes from a very specific kind of shooter. I played a lot of Metal Gear Online (may those servers rest in piece) where every single gun was an instant kill/tranq when you got a headshot while inside the gun's effective range. Dust seems to be a suitable replacement for that environment. The weapons are powerful, but will fizzle out when in the wrong hands or used improperly. If you have enough situational awareness and skill you can get around anyone using any gun. Teamwork makes this possible. Run the distraction game with a heavy and a Logi while your Shotgun Scout creeps up behind them. Move to another objective to force them to move into another playing field, etc. If you use your head you can get around any enemy with any weapon. Teamwork is what makes or breaks this game.

stop with real life comparisons with a game. stop with this will come in soon(tm) . im talking about right now and it is not balanced. this game favors shields over armor and explosives(which do more damage to armor) over bullets. yep balanced tho right?

Why does it feel that all the "top" players just want this game to be assault rifles and assault suits?

Why do my posts attract the stupid kids?

ok lets talk swarm launchers. they have the range to shoot across the map, they become invisible after a certain range, you can fire them even if there is a soild structure infront of the person firing it, and the greatest thing of all is you can lock on to a vehicle through a soild object as long as you just see the vehicle every 2-3 seconds....
sorry you are an idiot and dont understand balance, maybe next time your parents wont drop you

you seem to not of bought my book, well you should! than maybe you wouldnt be a total scrub. this game is imbalanced, and i am pointing out major defects,kind of like your doctor but dont worry im here to help

Stop feeding the QQ bear kids. Mr zitros a little troll and we all know it, let him whine in peace(thats how you spell that BTW). When people stop paying attention maybe he will STFU. Sad thing is that he gives his corp, and his brother a bad name they don't deserve for the most part.

CCP why are you lowering your standards and forcing it on us? you were into average women just like the rest of us now you are into hairy BBW which is find for you but NOT FOR ME. ADD SKILL TO THIS GAME-first rule of a FPS. That is where you will get most of your player base

stuped stuff

i'll take my advice from this lady thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQSBm5A_FI

everyone should be given only one of three options of weapons, rock, paper, or scissors. one weapon is beaten by another while destroying another one. all maps are empty square rooms with padded walls and no objectives.

this should keep the imperfects happy.

Stop feeding the QQ bear kids. Mr zitros a little troll and we all know it, let him whine in peace(thats how you spell that BTW). When people stop paying attention maybe he will STFU. Sad thing is that he gives his corp, and his brother a bad name they don't deserve for the most part.

The problem is it's people like this that cause CCP to massively over compensate. I for one believe they do it intentionally to gain an advantage in their preferred loadout.

Jason makes a very good point but worded slightly wrong and a bit inaccurate.

The militia swarm and forge aren't free, they are BPCs and it's not that they aren't balanced, the swarms damage is equal to the basic variant, but it only carries a magazine of 2, so there twice the reloading time which is a good 5 seconds I think for basic. Forge gun I couldnt comment on without checking.

But he's right ... there's a lot of stuff that shouldnt be so accessible ... militia swarms, forge, shotgun can go ... all militia damage mods I'd bin aswell ... grenades, binned, all of them, if you want to use them, train a skill (which shouldn't be included at the start)

I know that doesn't really solve the problem of grenades, they need their damages and splashes and lob ranges and fuse timers looking at again, I can't comment too much cos I'm rubbish with them.

But it would turn AV back into a specialisation or side-spec that it should be, not a 'cheap-4-all' throw away suit. It bugs me too ... I work hard to get my points as a Swarm specialist, always have, but recently it can't be done ... you don't get wp for vehicle damage anymore and some blue dot with a militia swarm or forge gets the kill shot on a Sagaris I've dealt 90% of the damage to.

You just can't specialise AV anymore, I've had to adapt to assault rifles and lazer rifles to earn points and isk so I can skill up my preferred role.

Lets just nerf everything with no skills... The blueberries versus the redberries at a pie eating contest... who ever wins gets the planet's resources.

No, let's make things TAKE skill instead of dumbing down the game for noobs

i am not talking about gear im talking about how easy it is to use each item and how childish it is

Each item should be easy to use yet difficult to master.

Why does it feel that all the "top" players just want this game to be assault rifles and assault suits?

The only nerf this thread encourages me to support, is a nerf on Mr Zitro's ability to call people idiots. Maybe then we'll see some contribution to legitimate debate.

This thread says oherwise.

you say that swarms and AV nades are imbalanced because they are too easy to use. Not exactly imbalanced imo, but I agree they are too easy to use. Of course CCP shouldn't make it where it takes too much skill(referring to player skill not sp)to use.
They would have to find the right amount of difficulty of use for the AV weapons.

AV grenades can be thrown long distances because they are... Grenades. Though they might need to bring the dmg down a bit for standard. (You were probably in a armor tank. Armor needs love, everyone knows)

Swarms I'm not too sure about considering i don't use them. From my understanding, the Curving around cover is bs.
Im not sure about lock on mechanic though.

The main problem I have with av nades are how fast you can throw them and the fact they are more effective versus armor(130% if I'm not mistake and only do 69% on shields) AV nades should do equal damage to all vehicles. I think av nades should hurt LAVs but doing more damage to my tank than swarms or a forge is a bit ridiculous.
Now swarms i don't know what to do about but they do not fit.

Quick question about the swarms curving around cover.

When you say the curve around cover do you mean, if you are behind cover and the swarms are coming for you that the literrally go around the cover to hit you or, do you mean that they will make a turn to hit you when you are behind cover? I don't AV I am a logi/pilot so I really don't tend to pay attention to what the swarms are doing just if they are keeping the tank away from where I am.

I only drove armor tanks at the end of last build for like a week before the reset so I went down to many more forges than I did swarms, and flying dropships you really don't tend to care where they are going as long as they are not gaining on you and you are not flying into things.