DUST Search - Why is everything so easy?

Mr Zitro wrote:

DJINN Marauder wrote:

you say that swarms and AV nades are imbalanced because they are too easy to use. Not exactly imbalanced imo, but I agree they are too easy to use. Of course CCP shouldn't make it where it takes too much skill(referring to player skill not sp)to use.
They would have to find the right amount of difficulty of use for the AV weapons.

AV grenades can be thrown long distances because they are... Grenades. Though they might need to bring the dmg down a bit for standard. (You were probably in a armor tank. Armor needs love, everyone knows)

Swarms I'm not too sure about considering i don't use them. From my understanding, the Curving around cover is bs.
Im not sure about lock on mechanic though.

The main problem I have with av nades are how fast you can throw them and the fact they are more effective versus armor(130% if I'm not mistake and only do 69% on shields) AV nades should do equal damage to all vehicles. I think av nades should hurt LAVs but doing more damage to my tank than swarms or a forge is a bit ridiculous.
Now swarms i don't know what to do about but they do not fit.

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R ainbow Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:34:00 - [61] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: Each item should be easy to use yet difficult to master. I agree with that 100%. In games where you would like to bring in a large number of people, you want to have the basics easy. Make everything available to everyone, make higher tiers of equipment for those who choose to specialize in any equip type, but, ensure that there is still a level of depth in the game so that people who want to use more advanced tactics are able to do so. I've brought it up in this forum before and will do so again. I am a Dust player who is formerly a Metal Gear Online player. That game attracted me because of it's level of voluntary depth (similarly to Dust). I could take basic gear and use the abilities that made my AR's more powerful along with the ability to make me run faster and just run around shooting people. I could also, specialize in hand to hand combat and sneak around outside of people's lines of sight and forcibly engage them in H2H making their AR's irrelevant. The same can be done in Dust. I could take Assault/AR and just run around shooting people, or I could take a fast Scout suit, run wide around an enemy encampment and blindside them. It's still a rock paper scissors environment, but, there's much more than 3 choices to pick from. That is how a game should be. Some tactics beat others, others beat others still. Leave the basics basic, but, allow for more advanced gameplay to develop when it comes to gear loadouts, tactics and teamwork. Allow your players to evolve which, in turn, allows for your game to evolve around the players. It's that kind of dynamic relationship that any game needs to survive.
Derek Barnes ZionTCD Legacy Rising 340	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:46:00 - [62] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why does it feel that all the "top" players just want this game to be assault rifles and assault suits? That's what I was thinking
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.01.16 23:36:00 - [63] - Quote The only nerf this thread encourages me to support, is a nerf on Mr Zitro's ability to call people idiots. Maybe then we'll see some contribution to legitimate debate.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.16 23:47:00 - [64] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: The only nerf this thread encourages me to support, is a nerf on Mr Zitro's ability to call people idiots. Maybe then we'll see some contribution to legitimate debate. I can have a debate but if you have never touched the weapons/subject I'm talking about and tell me what I know is wrong when i have done and seen them, you are an idiot.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.01.16 23:55:00 - [65] - Quote This thread says oherwise.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.17 00:11:00 - [66] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: This thread says oherwise. When you troll me with stupid post I will call you stupid, look at the people who put descent post compared to the morons who had absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. If you are going to troll at least be funny or cunning.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.01.17 00:21:00 - [67] - Quote you say that swarms and AV nades are imbalanced because they are too easy to use. Not exactly imbalanced imo, but I agree they are too easy to use. Of course CCP shouldn't make it where it takes too much skill(referring to player skill not sp)to use. They would have to find the right amount of difficulty of use for the AV weapons. AV grenades can be thrown long distances because they are... Grenades. Though they might need to bring the dmg down a bit for standard. (You were probably in a armor tank. Armor needs love, everyone knows) Swarms I'm not too sure about considering i don't use them. From my understanding, the Curving around cover is bs. Im not sure about lock on mechanic though.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.17 00:37:00 - [68] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: you say that swarms and AV nades are imbalanced because they are too easy to use. Not exactly imbalanced imo, but I agree they are too easy to use. Of course CCP shouldn't make it where it takes too much skill(referring to player skill not sp)to use. They would have to find the right amount of difficulty of use for the AV weapons. AV grenades can be thrown long distances because they are... Grenades. Though they might need to bring the dmg down a bit for standard. (You were probably in a armor tank. Armor needs love, everyone knows) Swarms I'm not too sure about considering i don't use them. From my understanding, the Curving around cover is bs. Im not sure about lock on mechanic though. The main problem I have with av nades are how fast you can throw them and the fact they are more effective versus armor(130% if I'm not mistake and only do 69% on shields) AV nades should do equal damage to all vehicles. I think av nades should hurt LAVs but doing more damage to my tank than swarms or a forge is a bit ridiculous. Now swarms i don't know what to do about but they do not fit.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2013.01.17 00:40:00 - [69] - Quote Quick question about the swarms curving around cover. When you say the curve around cover do you mean, if you are behind cover and the swarms are coming for you that the literrally go around the cover to hit you or, do you mean that they will make a turn to hit you when you are behind cover? I don't AV I am a logi/pilot so I really don't tend to pay attention to what the swarms are doing just if they are keeping the tank away from where I am. I only drove armor tanks at the end of last build for like a week before the reset so I went down to many more forges than I did swarms, and flying dropships you really don't tend to care where they are going as long as they are not gaining on you and you are not flying into things.
Washlee UnReaL. 131	Posted - 2013.01.17 00:43:00 - [70] - Quote Where CCP With the NERF HAMMER

DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.01.17 00:46:00 - [71] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: you say that swarms and AV nades are imbalanced because they are too easy to use. Not exactly imbalanced imo, but I agree they are too easy to use. Of course CCP shouldn't make it where it takes too much skill(referring to player skill not sp)to use. They would have to find the right amount of difficulty of use for the AV weapons. AV grenades can be thrown long distances because they are... Grenades. Though they might need to bring the dmg down a bit for standard. (You were probably in a armor tank. Armor needs love, everyone knows) Swarms I'm not too sure about considering i don't use them. From my understanding, the Curving around cover is bs. Im not sure about lock on mechanic though. The main problem I have with av nades are how fast you can throw them and the fact they are more effective versus armor(130% if I'm not mistake and only do 69% on shields) AV nades should do equal damage to all vehicles. I think av nades should hurt LAVs but doing more damage to my tank than swarms or a forge is a bit ridiculous. Now swarms i don't know what to do about but they do not fit. Yes the 130% dmg on armor (both swarms and AV ) is kind of ridiculous for armor tankers. Unfortunately CCP has decided that as of now.. dust will be a Shield tanking game. I believe the best solution would be this with AV nades: Take away extra dmg on armor. 900 damage standard for vehicles. Encourages bringing out REAL AV to take out vehicles or skill up in grenades.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.01.17 01:17:00 - [72] - Quote Goat of Dover wrote: Quick question about the swarms curving around cover. When you say the curve around cover do you mean, if you are behind cover and the swarms are coming for you that the literrally go around the cover to hit you or, do you mean that they will make a turn to hit you when you are behind cover? I don't AV I am a logi/pilot so I really don't tend to pay attention to what the swarms are doing just if they are keeping the tank away from where I am. I only drove armor tanks at the end of last build for like a week before the reset so I went down to many more forges than I did swarms, and flying dropships you really don't tend to care where they are going as long as they are not gaining on you and you are not flying into things. I predominantly use swarms when there's any vehicles on the map. What he's talking about Ive only witnessed a couple of times, and I'm not entirely sure the circumstances that cause it. I think what's happening is the swarms are tracking to the position of the vehicle when the swarm was fired, then they begin following it ... it's obviously much more complicated than that but it some circumstances I guess when a vehicle has just popped out to the side of cover, swarms are fired and it reverses back where it came from ... then the swarms go to the side of the cover and do a 90deg turn towards the vehicle. This is the only way I can think it could be doing it and as I've said I've only seen it happen a couple of times which makes me think the tracking is ment to be more direct to current position, but sometimes it screws up and continues to original position before redirecting to the vehicles current position ... if that makes sense. And ... @Jason ... yes, sorry I'd forgot about the starter fit swarm and didn't realise the Heavy now gets a free forge. I'm actually reconsidering my previous position ... I'm not sure the accessibility of militia AV is such a problem ... I think it's only an issue now because these HAV drivers are still crying they're not dominating everything with missiles and now they're back in militia HAVs ... the accesibilty of militia AV makes it harder and more costly to spec into them. Once they move into basic and advanced HAVs they won't be an issue, but they will be more able to assist the specialised AVers. I'm beginning to think it's a good thing ... making HAVs less of a threat at lower levels due to the abundance of counters and actually costing drivers some isk and deaths and stopping them topping the leaderboard match after match and racking up enough isk to not worry about losing them. Keeping them reigned back a bit to begin with.


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