DUST Search - Snipefest

Cal Predine wrote:

NovaShadowStorm wrote:

...Peoples problem isn't with snipers truly it's that so many people go as snipers because they don't want to risk dying that is the real issue.

Absolutely spot on.
So-called snipers (most of which aren't worthy of the title) can easily farm kills with amazingly reduced risk to themselves compared to line infantry.
While dragging in these high K/D ratios and the rewards that go with them, they offer nothing to their team-mates in Skirmish games, as they never leave their hills, so take no part in winning the game (can't capture any objectives from up in the hills).

Therefore the risk Vs reward balance for "snipers" is wrong in Skirmish games, and needs to be addressed.

Now, Ambush games are a different matter, as kill total *does* win that game mode for the team. I don't usually play Ambush, so can't really comment. I will note, however, that there were *far* fewer "snipers" in the HK Game show Ambush matches than in most Skirmish games I play. Possibly due to map layout, where they didn't have hills to hide in safely within the enemy's red zone.

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TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 49	Posted - 2013.01.01 01:00:00 - [31] - Quote why do people complain so much about snipers being snipers? play with a squad that has one good sniper to counter-snipe them. my corp rarely complains about snipers unless they are playing against me. also, don't stand in the open area like your some kind of special.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation 88	Posted - 2013.01.01 01:21:00 - [32] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: why do people complain so much about snipers being snipers? play with a squad that has one good sniper to counter-snipe them. my corp rarely complains about snipers unless they are playing against me. also, don't stand in the open area like your some kind of special. We always have a sniper in our squad, his main task is to kill snipers, give Intel on where they are and movement on FI elswere. Mic and teamwork work fine, get killed sometimes but that is a part of the game. Cant wait for the light fighters to come, snipers will be in for a hard time.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2013.01.01 01:43:00 - [33] - Quote TDC's survival guide against snipers: -If you hear a bullet next to your head get in cover ASAP (decent headset makes it easy to know the snipers position) -can you see the sniper? No? then stay in cover if yes proceed with the next point. -Is the sniper in your effective range? if yes return fire, if no stay in cover -if you cant get close to them by normal movements due to a open view on the field then stay in cover -while in cover get a LAV, jump in and drive at max speed to the snipers position -laugh at him while he tries to quickscope you and gun him down up close only problem here is the redline snipers on skirmish where it is very hard to counter them. But oh well usually i get a tank then and show them my definition of "sniping".
Enderr Wigginn KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 57	Posted - 2013.01.01 01:44:00 - [34] - Quote Counter sniper counter sniper counter sniper. The first time I get killed by a sniper I switch to my sniper class and start counter sniping. Even if I am not killing them I am making them worry about me and not my team.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 49	Posted - 2013.01.01 07:12:00 - [35] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: why do people complain so much about snipers being snipers? play with a squad that has one good sniper to counter-snipe them. my corp rarely complains about snipers unless they are playing against me. also, don't stand in the open area like your some kind of special. We always have a sniper in our squad, his main task is to kill snipers, give Intel on where they are and movement on FI elswere. Mic and teamwork work fine, get killed sometimes but that is a part of the game. Cant wait for the light fighters to come, snipers will be in for a hard time. see. it works.
Wako 75 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 76	Posted - 2013.01.01 07:17:00 - [36] - Quote really doesnt take that long if they are infront of redline to just run up and shoot them try it out and also what suit are you running because they dont oneshot me in a starter fit assault
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2013.01.01 10:15:00 - [37] - Quote To be frank I did all of the above except bringing a sniper for my own team. Sigh
Tammerion Codex Troopers 7	Posted - 2013.01.01 12:59:00 - [38] - Quote For me, Sniper is my only option. I'm old :) and my cat like reflexes you all young kids have, have long since left. But my hands are still steady, just can't compete with you all on the front line...go with your strengths, ya know..
Eflin Trollunge Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2013.01.01 14:08:00 - [39] - Quote This is one of the few games I am enjoying sniping, though I dont red line or anything, I am running around a lot changing positions taking points, SMG for close fights sniper for long fights, Drop uplinks for support, though may switch out for a nanite injector. my only thing is I cant tell if I need to lead shots or not that seems a bit sketchy so not sniping as well as I could be
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.01.01 14:37:00 - [40] - Quote sniping is poorly implemented in this game. and mainly it is down to the maps. They are open and bowls. Allowing anyone at high elevation to peer down. I can pick up my militia sniper rifle with no sp in it and sit pack and rack up kills due to this. Because of the maps there is no sense of snipers having a role/ be tactically beneficial for the team in and of its own. I.E. helping change the course of the match; such as pushing/ funnelling the opposition to take certain routes with the help of ground forces doing the same but close up. Or help pin them down the opposition in areas. (this is most noticeable on the 3 letter maps) counter sniping is not an answer if the original problem of how they have been implemented isnt looked at.

NovaShadowStorm The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.01.01 15:13:00 - [41] - Quote Once again snipers aren't invulnerable nor are they invisible if someone is shooting you it means they must be in visible range somewhere. If you run to cover and still hear bullets look around. You should see something just look hard and look up. Most snipers will always try to find elevated ground. Use your scope to try and look around you may see a flash of a red triangle. And when you die you should get a red triangel showing from which direction you took the fatal shot before dropping so long as you have an idea of the direction you have a chance to find them. It's not impossible to find them even if they are on the other end of the map if you can get your sights over them they will appear even if it's briefly. It makes you wonder what people truly expect from snipers in a game. I'm not sure about the rest of you but I have played Sniper for a while (not so much anymore since I'm playing on that small Asia game show map) and I don't red line but I will admit I find nice spots in hard to find areas and watch over the battle field. I counter snipe, protect points and help out struggling team mates awhen I see them being chased by few guys. Other than that I kill anything that enters my kill zone what more do you want a sniper to do? They are back line anti infantry units and so long as they aren't blatantly ignoring the flow of the game and do keep you covered I don't see a problem. The main problem people complain about snipers is "Oh they're too far out of range for us to fight back before we get killed" Well DUH thats the whole idea of a sniper to kill someone before they can get to you. Thats what a sniper is a specialist in long range combat. Peoples problem isn't with snipers truly it's that so many people go as snipers because they don't want to risk dying that is the real issue. That being said those not dedicated to being snipers and not levelling sniper rifles will have absurd sway to their aim while standing and will take a long time to stabilise after crouching making those ones easy to evade. Also for non believes yes you can kill someone with 1 shot fom a sniper but it's either A) A scout suit or B) A headshot. Scout suits just have jack all HP and a headshot deals 195% damage but getting a headshot on anything other than another sniper, Laser rifler or just someone standing still engaging someone else at long range and not moving is extremely hard. Any body shots on something not a scout will require 2+ hits to kill.
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 317	Posted - 2013.01.01 15:20:00 - [42] - Quote Sniper Riffles are pretty OP atm the need damage and range nerf
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2013.01.01 15:40:00 - [43] - Quote Sniper rifles don't fill their role at 400 meters. At that range they mostly fill the niche of padding the operator's kdr. Reduce that range to 200 meters and bring the snipers closer to the fight. Then we'll have the whole stealth gameplay based on sensors and connected skills the devs wanted. Snipers will be able to focus on a specific corridor and keep it locked down, but won't be able to overlook all important points at the same time. Alternatively all maps could be changed so sniper's can't make use of their effective range.
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 37	Posted - 2013.01.05 14:15:00 - [44] - Quote NovaShadowStorm wrote: ...Peoples problem isn't with snipers truly it's that so many people go as snipers because they don't want to risk dying that is the real issue. Absolutely spot on. So-called snipers (most of which aren't worthy of the title) can easily farm kills with amazingly reduced risk to themselves compared to line infantry. While dragging in these high K/D ratios and the rewards that go with them, they offer nothing to their team-mates in Skirmish games, as they never leave their hills, so take no part in winning the game (can't capture any objectives from up in the hills). Therefore the risk Vs reward balance for "snipers" is wrong in Skirmish games, and needs to be addressed. Now, Ambush games are a different matter, as kill total does win that game mode for the team. I don't usually play Ambush, so can't really comment. I will note, however, that there were far fewer "snipers" in the HK Game show Ambush matches than in most Skirmish games I play. Possibly due to map layout, where they didn't have hills to hide in safely within the enemy's red zone.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2013.01.05 14:36:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sorry but I wear militia gear and I have never had a sniper one shot me. anecdotal evidence ftw
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.01.05 18:43:00 - [46] - Quote Cal Predine wrote: NovaShadowStorm wrote: ...Peoples problem isn't with snipers truly it's that so many people go as snipers because they don't want to risk dying that is the real issue. Absolutely spot on. So-called snipers (most of which aren't worthy of the title) can easily farm kills with amazingly reduced risk to themselves compared to line infantry. While dragging in these high K/D ratios and the rewards that go with them, they offer nothing to their team-mates in Skirmish games, as they never leave their hills, so take no part in winning the game (can't capture any objectives from up in the hills). Therefore the risk Vs reward balance for "snipers" is wrong in Skirmish games, and needs to be addressed. Now, Ambush games are a different matter, as kill total does win that game mode for the team. I don't usually play Ambush, so can't really comment. I will note, however, that there were far fewer "snipers" in the HK Game show Ambush matches than in most Skirmish games I play. Possibly due to map layout, where they didn't have hills to hide in safely within the enemy's red zone. Snipers can make a difference on skirmishes, as having the stronger grip of the field acts as a detriment on everything the other team tries to accomplish. A team just needs to find the right balance of snipers, avs, tanks etc... to make it work. Skirmishes do end up with clone reserve wipe, and in those cases the sniper scoring high frags certainly contributed. sniping on the gameshow map was cool but rage-inducing due to horrendous spawn locations.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.01.05 18:49:00 - [47] - Quote A good sniping fit with Thales rifle knocks 320 base damage, modded with 3 complex modules and up to 25% more damage from skills. The rifle will cost hefty isk, I'd figure in the 10 mill range. That'll be a juicy orbital strike target :)
Washlee UnReaL. 131	Posted - 2013.01.05 18:54:00 - [48] - Quote Bob N Weave man or you'll find yourself down the sight of my sniper.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.05 18:59:00 - [49] - Quote Dust is not the only game to ever have sniper rifles. Just look at what Planetside 2 did to keep their snipers in check. Sniper rifles have scope sway even when crouched. Sniper rifles have bullet drop. And the bullets they shoot have travel time to their target, rather than being hitscan like Dust. The ones that kill in a couple shots (or one headshot) are bolt-action and have a delay between firing. The result is that shooting from extreme ranges is very difficult to do effectively. You see snipers relatively close to fights because that's the only place they can reliably get kills from. And because they're closer to fights, they're able to be engaged like anyone else. There's no concern in that game over unreachable snipers shooting across maps. Make sniping difficult to do, make it something other than a perfectly precise hitscan weapon that can shoot across maps, and the issue of sniping in Dust is over with.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 428	Posted - 2013.01.05 19:06:00 - [50] - Quote I agree with a little sway, as a part time sniper. Also, using code breaker mods really diminishes sniper value. How? If you can hack an Objective fast enough before a sniper get's a read, their team will lose objectives, thus the sniper value begins to decrease. Also, as said numerous times, get your team a sniper. Sniper hunting is not only fun, but it's of importance.

Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 34	Posted - 2013.01.05 19:09:00 - [51] - Quote Noraa Anderson wrote: Snipers are snipers and they can't not be in this game. The problem arises from the bowl shape of these maps and their general openess. To be fair, while they are an annoyance, it's not hard to see that most of the snipers aren't much of a benefit to their teams. I was playing with a snipper from your corp the other day, and he did pretty well taking objectives.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2013.01.05 20:26:00 - [52] - Quote Ha red line snipers! Back in my day we had the tower snipers and the rocket spam from the towers! I remember a good few times chasing Gem Cutter to the top of those damn things squishing him with my DS, those were real rage inducing times. Draw distance made them invisible from across the map. Ah the good ole' days...
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2013.01.05 21:10:00 - [53] - Quote aden slayer wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sorry but I wear militia gear and I have never had a sniper one shot me. This. You guys obviously haven't played against me when I have my charged rifle with 3 complex dmg mods out. I can 1 shot any militia suit even without a headshot unless they are sporting high level mods on that cheapass suit. In which case, a headshot is still a OHK.
lDocHollidayl Imperfects Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2013.01.05 21:27:00 - [54] - Quote Easiest one button fix....smoke grenades. If we can spam smoke (like in most other games and RL) snipers lose their value. Lets all be honest...one hit kills are rare..headshots. The most annoying thing is behind red line sniping, 2nd is the head glitch (or whatever causes me see see them and get hit but can not connect my bullets..blue shields too) Snipers need to be in game. They need to be powerful and able to shoot from afar. Be careful guys not to eliminate a class.
Lorilai Libertas the Aurum Grinder and Company 20	Posted - 2013.01.05 21:37:00 - [55] - Quote Your best defense against snipers is another sniper. they/we actively hunt other snipers, because they are a sniper's greatest threat. the hardest target is the one which moves in this manner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion
Gem Cutter CrimeWave Syndicate 11	Posted - 2013.01.06 03:18:00 - [56] - Quote Belzeebub Santana wrote: Ha red line snipers! Back in my day we had the tower snipers and the rocket spam from the towers! I remember a good few times chasing Gem Cutter to the top of those damn things squishing him with my DS, those were real rage inducing times. Draw distance made them invisible from across the map. Ah the good ole' days... Of course that was when we only had the one map and the towers provided the best vantage point. Now you're just a sitting duck for other snipers and finding partial cover is the name of the game this time around. Some maps have it, some don't. Of course my favorite thing at that time was calling in the free tanks shooting back at dropships up there. Even better I did manage to take out a dropship with a snipe rifle with about 20 rounds when they were able to do that kind of damage to them. BS is right...the good ole' days....


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