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Laser Rifle DIscourse [Logic Bomb Edition]

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Omnipotens Zitro Doomheim 425	Posted - 2012.12.30 03:57:00 - [31] - Quote Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Lasers are not OP. Not at all, I can kill 2 people with the first half of the clip, then kill 4 more with the rest of the clip because of over heat damage. I can pretty much do that barely letting go of the trigger too. Then I have my trust SMG next to me to kill the close up enemies. Yeah not OP at all. Sarcasm Tbh a good player can do the same with a proto AR with similiar ratio in ammo, so dont see the argument unless you want to elaborate. You cant do this in any scenario in any case, but when people cluster and arent in top notch gear, sure it can work out that way, but thats thier issue and being at range, its also not a common occurance Where as a proto AR can kill 4 in closer range with exausting a similiar amount of ammo when thinking on a ratio standpoint. This being said i call BS on the 'first half a clip' part, maybe 1 kill first half, 3 kills second half , because second half is usually the well heated end of it. This is significant because it means there is still time before you spot the prey and actually nab the kill a proto AR can't kill any decent heavy in one clip. I can't 6 piece anything with a AR, so yeah. Edited my post a a bit, but i can still reply to this as it doesnt pertain to edit. Yeah an LR can kill a decent heavy in one clip, if a heavy stays in the open to be hit and at a distance. But that's where specialization and team tactics some into play. Which then draws a question as to how 'decent' they are to be in the open. In similiar sense, so can a proto AR if a heavy made himself easy prey like that. With an AR you also get a lot of mobility, so that makes up for it, where as an LR user you dont have that mobility Just STFU and think before you post! Laser have exactly the same mobility as an AR! Lasers don't make you slower do they? No!!! I run around with the laser, I just stay in optimal range of everybody.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2012.12.30 04:09:00 - [32] - Quote Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Lasers are not OP. Not at all, I can kill 2 people with the first half of the clip, then kill 4 more with the rest of the clip because of over heat damage. I can pretty much do that barely letting go of the trigger too. Then I have my trust SMG next to me to kill the close up enemies. Yeah not OP at all. Sarcasm Tbh a good player can do the same with a proto AR with similiar ratio in ammo, so dont see the argument unless you want to elaborate. You cant do this in any scenario in any case, but when people cluster and arent in top notch gear, sure it can work out that way, but thats thier issue and being at range, its also not a common occurance Where as a proto AR can kill 4 in closer range with exausting a similiar amount of ammo when thinking on a ratio standpoint. This being said i call BS on the 'first half a clip' part, maybe 1 kill first half, 3 kills second half , because second half is usually the well heated end of it. This is significant because it means there is still time before you spot the prey and actually nab the kill a proto AR can't kill any decent heavy in one clip. I can't 6 piece anything with a AR, so yeah. Edited my post a a bit, but i can still reply to this as it doesnt pertain to edit. Yeah an LR can kill a decent heavy in one clip, if a heavy stays in the open to be hit and at a distance. But that's where specialization and team tactics some into play. Which then draws a question as to how 'decent' they are to be in the open. In similiar sense, so can a proto AR if a heavy made himself easy prey like that. With an AR you also get a lot of mobility, so that makes up for it, where as an LR user you dont have that mobility Just STFU and think before you post! Laser have exactly the same mobility as an AR! Lasers don't make you slower do they? No!!! I run around with the laser, I just stay in optimal range of everybody. Sure they do, you're not as forced to ADS, with LR you always are, hence it lowers mobility (CQC = high mobility, and ARs are effective in CQC). Eitherway i dont see the issue, you stay optimal range with everybody, your using it well... why is it OP? If someone flanks close up then chances are they will kill you. I dont get why it has to be OP because people dont realize not to attack at range.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.12.30 04:18:00 - [33] - Quote Damage build up when hot is quite honestly ridiculous. Lvl 1 laser fries 2 heavies in about 10-15 ammo. Last 10-15 in the clip mind. The REAL problem is that while almost all other weapons Proto damage was tuned down, lasers were left the same AND has mechanic fixes (heat up times ect). Swarmer is the same (do some quick Maths with a top swarm & damage mods for DPS). It's overpowered, because it wasn't rebalanced like the rest.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2012.12.30 04:22:00 - [34] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Damage build up when hot is quite honestly ridiculous. Lvl 1 laser fries 2 heavies in about 10-15 ammo. Last 10-15 in the clip mind. The REAL problem is that while almost all other weapons Proto damage was tuned down, lasers were left the same AND has mechanic fixes (heat up times ect). Swarmer is the same (do some quick Maths with a top swarm & damage mods for DPS). It's overpowered, because it wasn't rebalanced like the rest. Keep in mind a lot of people that can do it stack dual high end dmg mods in thier suits as it doesn't have a penalty currently, it may be causing a lot of the ridiculous numbers im seeing people bring up that i havn't experienced in my own play with the LR Not saying the LR needs no adjustment necessarily, i do state in the original post that I'm open to the otherside, however i do disagree with the idea that it's OP or significantly broken. Before anything happens with LR though that is one thing i'd like to see fixed.
Omnipotens Zitro Doomheim 425	Posted - 2012.12.30 04:27:00 - [35] - Quote [quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous] The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds. The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming. I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2012.12.30 04:31:00 - [36] - Quote Omnipotens Zitro wrote: [quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous] The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds. The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming. I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves. Okay... so, let me get this straight, you stayed in a corner of a map with lasers and got kills. So you stat padded? Are you going to call snipers OP if a group of snipers went up in hills and just camped an entire game, feeding eachother nanohives and picking off people? At the end of the day, you may of gotten that but i question how effective you'd be against an organized squad or team with that tactic, chances are you'd have to move around because points are being taken and you'd end up losing the game. Weapon isnt OP, you're just pubstarring.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 809	Posted - 2012.12.30 05:02:00 - [37] - Quote Calling the LR OP because it's got the right optimal range for the Asia game show map is silly. It just so happens that particular map is constructed in a way that benefits LR. The distance from cover point to cover point just happens to be conducive for the mid-long game. It says more about the map design than the LR.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.12.30 05:30:00 - [38] - Quote Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: [quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous] The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds. The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming. I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves. Okay... so, let me get this straight, you stayed in a corner of a map with lasers and got kills. So you stat padded? Are you going to call snipers OP if a group of snipers went up in hills and just camped an entire game, feeding eachother nanohives and picking off people? At the end of the day, you may of gotten that but i question how effective you'd be against an organized squad or team with that tactic, chances are you'd have to move around because points are being taken and you'd end up losing the game. Weapon isnt OP, you're just pubstarring. Well unlike lasers, snipers don't fire a continuos beam of sunshine that can damage me, i can make a sniper miss and dodge their fire while firing back, You cant not in any way shape or form make a LR miss their target all you can do is take cover from it. Which half the time doesnt work because it seems laser at time cut right through the obstacles and bend ever so slightly around objects, it doesnt do a good job of blocking the beam like it should that is nonsense.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2012.12.30 05:38:00 - [39] - Quote Gunner Visari wrote: Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: [quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous] The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds. The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming. I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves. Okay... so, let me get this straight, you stayed in a corner of a map with lasers and got kills. So you stat padded? Are you going to call snipers OP if a group of snipers went up in hills and just camped an entire game, feeding eachother nanohives and picking off people? At the end of the day, you may of gotten that but i question how effective you'd be against an organized squad or team with that tactic, chances are you'd have to move around because points are being taken and you'd end up losing the game. Weapon isnt OP, you're just pubstarring. Well unlike lasers, snipers don't fire a continuos beam of sunshine that can damage me, i can make a sniper miss and dodge their fire while firing back, You cant not in any way shape or form make a LR miss their target all you can do is take cover from it. Which half the time doesnt work because it seems laser at time cut right through the obstacles and bend ever so slightly around objects, it doesnt do a good job of blocking the beam like it should that is nonsense. True, but unlike snipers you are put in amongst other foot soldiers, yeah you keep range as someone who has an LR but you are never unreachable UNLESS you in a nook/perch where you can have a good line of site and pick people off. But by that same logic, a shotty in a hallway is OP because he is forcing himself to deal with CQC. Shotty is not OP in a hallway, that is the environment what it is meant to deal most damage in. While someone may be able to get kills these ways, the question on (outside of an ambush game) whether they are going to win the game or not still remains, and probably not if the LR person is just keep to a particular spot on the map to stat pad. LRs may seem OP in pubs but thats because people in pubs are usually disorganized messes, in an clan match LRs are no more or less OP then an AR or a Shotty. Where ARs are general multirole weapons, Shotties have thier speciality in CQC and LRs have thier specialty in range, but not near to the same degree as a sniper, its meant to be a more active range weapon. Edit: Obviously obstacle part you are talking about does not pertain to weapon itself and is a map glitch, or maybe you had not covered yourself as well as you had thought. Edit 2: You can make an LR miss its target technically but agreed it is harder. But tbh, it is not hard to dodge and tank rays enough to get to cover, UNLESS: 1) it is already pre-heated. In which case the player has a relatively smaller margin of time (and had already spent time heating it up) in order to peg you. There was a charge occurring that could also give away his position. 2) You were caught out in the open, which is on the player. LRs also give away position to anyone in the vicinity (beam), which helps bring attention to the attack you are receiving, something that would not occur with other weapons. Sure they may get you down, but they have to be on thier toes to maintain distance with other players closing in on them. Edit 3: A lot of this comes down to squad tactics, the weapon itself i dont see as OP, it fulfills its particular niche and lacks considerably outside of that niche
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2012.12.30 07:24:00 - [40] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: BUT the laser rifles are able to project their damage in inverse manner to AR's: while AR's are now getting inaccurate over range, laser stays accurate. This is the only relevant part of your post. The range at maximum for laser rifles makes them a healthy replacement for sniper rifles, which I don't think anyone really wants. Don't snipers have a greater max range then 84m? I've been running lasers on my main now for a week or two now, and I can say it is a very situational weapon. Its great at optimal range but when someone gets close to mid range its worthless. On my alt I tend to use the exile and I can say that weapon is waaaayyyyy more versatile.

Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.30 07:39:00 - [41] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Laser riflez are simple OP, I have level one with a toxin and can destroy anyone, far, medium, cqc, no problem. please do not tell me that my own weapon isn't OP because it is, and it's militia. There is no such thing as a militia laser. quit being obvious when you troll, it makes you look dumb. 1/10.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.12.30 07:57:00 - [42] - Quote Laser rifles wont win skirmish matches simply cause you cant assault a objective with it. Oh and about getting 35 kills + on a ambush match against idiots is not really hard to pull off. With a laser you get yourself in a nice position where hostile players wont spawn stright next to you due to the spawn system. And i know what the Impotents try to achieve here. 1. getting lasers nerfed 2. getting their TAC AR back how it was before it got balanced both points combined would mean that they can again outrange lasers with more damage with their modded controllers. Basically they want their "I WIN BUTTON" on the rapid fire controller back. Sorry but this aint going to happend. WASTED MONEY
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.30 08:32:00 - [43] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Laser rifles wont win skirmish matches simply cause you cant assault a objective with it. Oh and about getting 35 kills + on a ambush match against idiots is not really hard to pull off. With a laser you get yourself in a nice position where hostile players wont spawn stright next to you due to the spawn system. And i know what the Impotents try to achieve here. 1. getting lasers nerfed 2. getting their TAC AR back how it was before it got balanced both points combined would mean that they can again outrange lasers with more damage with their modded controllers. Basically they want their "I WIN BUTTON" on the rapid fire controller back. Sorry but this aint going to happend. WASTED MONEY We're sorry, but we now require skill to win at DUST 514, purchasing a controller that handles the messy details of trigger pulls by holding it down on single fire weapons is no longer a viable option. thank you drive through. Working as intended.
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:54:00 - [44] - Quote I've been noticing a lot of laser rifle kills auto bleed out their target. Anyone else experience this?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 809	Posted - 2012.12.30 22:40:00 - [45] - Quote Sytonis Auran wrote: I've been noticing a lot of laser rifle kills auto bleed out their target. Anyone else experience this? headshots
Tinodi Doomheim 39	Posted - 2012.12.31 11:00:00 - [46] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: too much logic in this... expect to be trolled. JW v Weingarten wrote: Where are the haters? looks like this orbital logic strike owned them What else can you do against someone rocking a proto logicstics suit?
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.12.31 18:19:00 - [47] - Quote Omnipotens Zitro wrote: [quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous] The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds. The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming. I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves. In that case it is ONLY holding - not attacking objectives or roaming around.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.12.31 18:23:00 - [48] - Quote I repeat what I said elsewhere: While considering if any weapons system is OP, consider this: Can it be used to roam solo? Own people where-ever you go? If the answer is 'no', it is very likely that the weapon is NOT OP. Some weapons can be great support weapons but requiring a team and lacking otherwise. EDIT: Corrected a heavy typo which changed the meaning: added the 'NOT' into the not op sentence.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1031	Posted - 2012.12.31 20:32:00 - [49] - Quote Once you understand how to best use a laser its deadly. You can't nerf player skill and really good players will figure out lasers like all the other weapons and be good at them. That said, even a scrub like me has figured out how to heat up the laser and swipe it past someones head and drop them instantly. I don't have problem with lasers in general but the alpha damage that is capable is OVER POWERED. Honestly with my skill its easier to kill people with the Laser then the tac rifle from last build. Sorry to say but it really sounds like your trying to justifiy your weapon ahead of time. Since AR's got an informal range nerf this build with iron sights its much harder for anyone to engage a good laser player. Just like last build where good tac players were OP because of range and damage so is the viz laser. Alpha damage is bad in games like this. I still think grenades and shotguns need to be reworked along with lasers. As someone else posted this the dust proverb Nerf rock, paper is fine -scissors Stop trying to justify it because you use it and are a good player it just shows your biased.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2282	Posted - 2012.12.31 20:41:00 - [50] - Quote Fix broken dmg mods 1st tbh that being said always have said the viziam laser needs to be looked at i honestly dont have much of a problem with the standard and ELM but i know when u stack some broken dmg mods on the viziam its nasty is the gun itself OP? idk ppl i know use it and those outside my corp that use it as well im sure they stack dmg mods which are still fckin broken....... fix the mods 1st then lets see what happens then TWEAK the viziam to suit PS: lolnades.....seems every gunfight now is a nade fest, dont really have a problem with shotguns tho...maybe militia ones but the rest do as they are intended

Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1031	Posted - 2012.12.31 20:58:00 - [51] - Quote I think damage mods are part of issue Mavado but not the main thing. The stacking issue barely gives you 5% using 3 of them so thats not an excuse at all. Under current game design long range weapons benefit from the fact that they can stack (broken or not) damage mods instead of tanking. So lasers have built in advantage in suit fittings perspective too. Skytt mentioned this before in IRC but lasers should be damage-over-time on target instead of building up and then swipping across someone after you have built up heat. This would put it in line with how other guns work and add more skill invovled. Now when i use a laser i just R1 away from a red and swipe across him a few times and kill him. As I said before once you figure out how to use it a laser becomes a low skill weapon and add to that the alpha damage it can produce and it OP.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:48:00 - [52] - Quote I think everyone who says lazer are fine because they are crap at close range is simply lying to themselves. The fact is lazer still do plenty of damage at close range especially if the heat build is already there from having just recently killed someone. Yes if you just started firing your lazer then they are pathetic at close range. I was originally in the lazer are fine camp but that because i hadnt had much experience with or against them and i dont like draw conclusions without some data. As it is lazer work just as well if not better even in the 20m range, they have the largest and greatest length of range in terms of gap between min effective and maximum effective range. It is frankly too wide for a continously fired weapon that increases its damage the greater the duration it is on,, the main problem is that it can be swung like a lightsaber rather than having to be controlled on a target. Lazer yes do get hotter with time but their beam really should have an increasing effect when it has an object to focus on. Facts are facts the lazer has problems and isnt balanced, i would not say OP because that implies unbeatable and unstoppable that they are not, But they are not balanced as well as people would like to think they are. Saying i use a lazer and die plenty is not a valid argument to say the weapon itself is balanced. It's weakness is hardly a weakness if it can be overcome by simply sweeping, continuing to fire and backing up while doing so. Edit- And no i dont rush LR head on unless i am quite literally in a quick toss nade distance(stone's throw) 5m whatever helps you visualize how close i really am before i just straight up rush them while strafing and firing. Which also reminds me the thing about lazer that probably annoys people is unlike other weapons you cant dodge lazer fire and even when you do the damage is that much worse when they finally do make contact with you. Edit2-Also what is with the imp hate, i relatively new to the forums so im not quite sure what it is. Ive faced off against enough of them, they are annoying in some of thier pubstomping techniques but all in all i dont get it, also seen plenty of imps using lazers so it doesnt seem like they are QQing for the sake of it. Perhaps i just havent been around enough to understand it fully.
Tinodi Doomheim 39	Posted - 2012.12.31 22:11:00 - [53] - Quote Of course you can kill people with a laser in cqc, but it clearly has a huge disadvantage. Maybe it's because I've rocked a laser for awhile, but honestly I don't think it's nearly as bad as people think... still shock over The AR balancing maybe. The key to both defeating and succeeding with the laser rifle is keeping a firm control over distance. With that in mind, I haven't noticed getting killed an inordinate number of times. I'm actually happy enough where things stand now that I'd like to see some new content, personally.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2013.01.01 02:06:00 - [54] - Quote damage up close is crap compared to a militia assault rifle. In fact a militia assault rifle has a higher DPS then a laser rifle up close even if it build up heat and then it barely gets the same damage output as a SMG. At point blank range you might get 25% efficency rating on shields (armor is even worse) so you would do 5HP damage per hit with no heat up. With max heat up maybe you get a damage of 8-10HP on shields. Oh and the best counter against a laser rifle is a heavy type-1 with armor plates and aswell a laser rifle (type-2 has more shields and is with that easy to kill.) You could aswell get a sniper rifle and shot him from far away. Another option is to get up close and shot him with a AR or shotgun. If you see a well known laser rifle user he will allways keep distance and eventually camp a good overview spot. when he starts to get kills his position is extreme easy to spot due to the beam which is visible for the whole team. If you let a laser rifle guy go flawless with tons of kills its your fault in not reacting to the situation. Its not a ordinary AR guy, a Laser in a good position should allways be a number 1 priority to kill cause he can do a very good job of area denial.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1031	Posted - 2013.01.01 02:51:00 - [55] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: damage up close is crap compared to a militia assault rifle. In fact a militia assault rifle has a higher DPS then a laser rifle up close even if it build up heat and then it barely gets the same damage output as a SMG. At point blank range you might get 25% efficency rating on shields (armor is even worse) so you would do 5HP damage per hit with no heat up. With max heat up maybe you get a damage of 8-10HP on shields. Oh and the best counter against a laser rifle is a heavy type-1 with armor plates and aswell a laser rifle (type-2 has more shields and is with that easy to kill.) You could aswell get a sniper rifle and shot him from far away. Another option is to get up close and shot him with a AR or shotgun. If you see a well known laser rifle user he will allways keep distance and eventually camp a good overview spot. when he starts to get kills his position is extreme easy to spot due to the beam which is visible for the whole team. If you let a laser rifle guy go flawless with tons of kills its your fault in not reacting to the situation. Its not a ordinary AR guy, a Laser in a good position should allways be a number 1 priority to kill cause he can do a very good job of area denial. the optimal range of a laser isn't so much the issue. Example a few builds back no one used the excuse that a minddrive smg was really bad at 50 meters because it was used and under 15 meters. Same can be said for Lasers. I never bother with laser close up I switch to smg. Saying its bad up close has no bearing on how it performs in its optimal which is the issue being discussed. I used a proto laser quite at bit myself and its easily broken in context with other guns. That said I am well aware that the informal AR nerf (temp iron sights only does play a part in the strong feelings against lasers) What it comes down to is a combination of the items below. 1) As with snipers long range weapons such as Lasers benefit from the user always being able to fit damage mods without a real trade off. Example AR players have to weight the risk/reward of damage vs tank. the stacking mod issue doesn't play that big of role really. 2) Accuracy of a laser when you swipe it across someone is 100% where as other guns can't offer you that type of ability. I hardly every aim for head but will still catch it a bunch. Watching high level suits lose shields instantly then the merc die just as fast when i make my second swipe back across him is telling. I'm not some super skilled fps guy either but using a laser i have much higher kdr then with any other weapon. 3) The only player skill factor is the preheat needed. Once you get that down its faily simple to preheat and swipe across players with high alpha damage. The alpha damage is my only real concern because ccp had reduced ehp of suits and scaled down damage of weapons consistantly to make dust about gun fights not he who shoots first. Now i am not calling for a nerf of lasers but I think with the combination of 3 things i listed above they are a bit broken ths build. Add to that having highly skilled players using them they will get a bad rap anyways. So many bad players in dust just want everything that kills them nerfed. I would prefer ccp to look as the issue objectiving in it parts and assess it as part of the bigger picutre.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.01 04:21:00 - [56] - Quote Okay i just played with the lazer today just to give it a go, yes people are right it does crappy damage at close range so i had to use my smg but even then as someone posted before its about how good it is at its optimal range and the poor map design that often allows on one route of entry to an elevated area. Yes counter lazer can stop it and sometimes a sniper can stop it often more times just disrupt it until the lazer turns their focus on them. But i just went 11/2 on top of the scaffolding above E in ambush, granted its ambush but still, there only a few points of attack most of which i can cover but has 2 snipers up there. Compounding the issue and this might be why lazer are downright nasty in some people's hand is i am using a navi controller and cheap optical mouse. Because of this i can keep my pointer on the lazer with almost no loss of contact especially if i use my left stick to match strafe speed. I didnt use one damage modifier, i had a type II suit, nano hive, sharpshooter at 3, LR operation at 3, and Weaponry 4 on my alt character. its very weak in terms of what it could be when fully maxed, and this was only the std tier I LR. Now i grant you it may not just be the LR itself obviously the mouse use may be as big the reason perhaps bigger, you're free to argue that but im sure there are plenty of controller users that can keep it steady just fine, especially since half the time you can just strafe and not really even have to adjust the aim. Also everyone will say its because i stayed in its range and it did its job. But its hard to fight something that can prevent you from ever getting in range. I mean as an area of denial weapon it perhaps works to well, even if i dont get you someone else usually will and if they dont and force you out of cover i will. The same can't be said of HMGs, MD, or SR with the SAME LEVEL OF FREQUENCY OF SUCCESS(emphasis not yelling). With regards to overheating and low clip. I found that my OCD nature of reloading after a kill works well when you have two hives to throw, are up at elevation and cant really be killed too easily. And the gun barely ever overheated because i could pulse
ALM1GHTY STATIUS Imperfects Negative-Feedback 261	Posted - 2013.01.01 04:36:00 - [57] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Laser riflez are simple OP, I have level one with a toxin and can destroy anyone, far, medium, cqc, no problem. please do not tell me that my own weapon isn't OP because it is, and it's militia. There is no such thing as a militia laser. quit being obvious when you troll, it makes you look dumb. 1/10. militia is now the same thing as standard, doesn't matter now they're the same thing, lasers are OP even with militia.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.01 04:59:00 - [58] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Laser riflez are simple OP, I have level one with a toxin and can destroy anyone, far, medium, cqc, no problem. please do not tell me that my own weapon isn't OP because it is, and it's militia. There is no such thing as a militia laser. quit being obvious when you troll, it makes you look dumb. 1/10. militia is now the same thing as standard, doesn't matter now they're the same thing, lasers are OP even with militia. score downgraded -1/10 for being dumb any weapon that costs 6k minimum and has no cheapie version in the militia store doesn't get militia status no matter how you wish otherwise. Lasers, even basic cheap ones come out of my wallet when you burn my dropsuits. Now, when CCP releases one that costs 500 ISK for the special kids that requires no SP investment I'll reconsider, until then, do we need to spell things out in crayon so you can understand it better? if you're going to make accusations of OPness use evidence that is not anecdotal.
Tinodi Doomheim 39	Posted - 2013.01.01 08:34:00 - [59] - Quote I think what we're seeing here is a bunch of factors leading people to cry OP as if this were anywhere near as bad as AR's were (it isn't): People used to rocking AR's now have to face up to a viable opponent who can beat them at range. Old tactics die slowly. As common knowledge adapts on how to deal with them, it'll die down. Everybody and their mama shield tanks... turns out there really is a downside to that now :p. Lasers could probably use slight tweaking, but the other forces makes it seem like a way bigger deal than it really is. Damage mods could use tweaking. I'm probably missing a few. I still don't see where the great gnashing of teeth comes from... I remember watching the kill feed show every. single. kill. for nearly a whole match being AR's before. I haven't seen even close to that with lasers. The only time I see a laser tearing people apart is when they are doing their job; defending a position at range with teammates covering anyone who slips into close range.
Musta Tornius BetaMax. 265	Posted - 2013.01.01 09:06:00 - [60] - Quote Just a fyi. Laser has a roughly 750 rpm firing rate and although it looks like a beam weapon damage is done to targets in pulses like an assault rifle. Facts seems to get lost in heated debating as always.



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