DUST Search - Laser Rifle DIscourse [Logic Bomb Edition]

Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote:

Omnipotens Zitro wrote:

[quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous]
The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds.

The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming.

I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves.

Okay... so, let me get this straight, you stayed in a corner of a map with lasers and got kills. So you stat padded? Are you going to call snipers OP if a group of snipers went up in hills and just camped an entire game, feeding eachother nanohives and picking off people?

At the end of the day, you may of gotten that but i question how effective you'd be against an organized squad or team with that tactic, chances are you'd have to move around because points are being taken and you'd end up losing the game.

Weapon isnt OP, you're just pubstarring.


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Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.12.30 01:19:00 - [1] - Quote Okay play against them on the ambush map for the asia game show and tell me that they dont have ridiculous properties. For everyone who say they arent effective in CQC, they are indeed effective unless you are literally within spitting distance of them. This is because the way they work with increasing damage for duration rather than range. Meaning they are effective at range because by the time the beam hits you it has been travelling for a long enough time that its hot enough to burn, at close range same thing because ppl can keep them swinging like a light saber. They do need a tweak but where that tweak is im not sure. It could and should likely be in the physics of the weapon either it needs to overheat quicker or take longer to cooldown so that it is more likely to overheat if you dont kill your target quickly and are constantly needed to refocus the beam if you can keep the aim steady and pulse the beam to keep it from overheating. If those things are done then a complimentary increase in either clip size or max clips need to be given to balance the weapon out. Fact is the ineffective at close range argument is not enough of an argument to state the weapon has balance
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.12.30 05:30:00 - [2] - Quote Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous wrote: Omnipotens Zitro wrote: [quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous] The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds. The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming. I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves. Okay... so, let me get this straight, you stayed in a corner of a map with lasers and got kills. So you stat padded? Are you going to call snipers OP if a group of snipers went up in hills and just camped an entire game, feeding eachother nanohives and picking off people? At the end of the day, you may of gotten that but i question how effective you'd be against an organized squad or team with that tactic, chances are you'd have to move around because points are being taken and you'd end up losing the game. Weapon isnt OP, you're just pubstarring. Well unlike lasers, snipers don't fire a continuos beam of sunshine that can damage me, i can make a sniper miss and dodge their fire while firing back, You cant not in any way shape or form make a LR miss their target all you can do is take cover from it. Which half the time doesnt work because it seems laser at time cut right through the obstacles and bend ever so slightly around objects, it doesnt do a good job of blocking the beam like it should that is nonsense.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:48:00 - [3] - Quote I think everyone who says lazer are fine because they are crap at close range is simply lying to themselves. The fact is lazer still do plenty of damage at close range especially if the heat build is already there from having just recently killed someone. Yes if you just started firing your lazer then they are pathetic at close range. I was originally in the lazer are fine camp but that because i hadnt had much experience with or against them and i dont like draw conclusions without some data. As it is lazer work just as well if not better even in the 20m range, they have the largest and greatest length of range in terms of gap between min effective and maximum effective range. It is frankly too wide for a continously fired weapon that increases its damage the greater the duration it is on,, the main problem is that it can be swung like a lightsaber rather than having to be controlled on a target. Lazer yes do get hotter with time but their beam really should have an increasing effect when it has an object to focus on. Facts are facts the lazer has problems and isnt balanced, i would not say OP because that implies unbeatable and unstoppable that they are not, But they are not balanced as well as people would like to think they are. Saying i use a lazer and die plenty is not a valid argument to say the weapon itself is balanced. It's weakness is hardly a weakness if it can be overcome by simply sweeping, continuing to fire and backing up while doing so. Edit- And no i dont rush LR head on unless i am quite literally in a quick toss nade distance(stone's throw) 5m whatever helps you visualize how close i really am before i just straight up rush them while strafing and firing. Which also reminds me the thing about lazer that probably annoys people is unlike other weapons you cant dodge lazer fire and even when you do the damage is that much worse when they finally do make contact with you. Edit2-Also what is with the imp hate, i relatively new to the forums so im not quite sure what it is. Ive faced off against enough of them, they are annoying in some of thier pubstomping techniques but all in all i dont get it, also seen plenty of imps using lazers so it doesnt seem like they are QQing for the sake of it. Perhaps i just havent been around enough to understand it fully.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.01 04:21:00 - [4] - Quote Okay i just played with the lazer today just to give it a go, yes people are right it does crappy damage at close range so i had to use my smg but even then as someone posted before its about how good it is at its optimal range and the poor map design that often allows on one route of entry to an elevated area. Yes counter lazer can stop it and sometimes a sniper can stop it often more times just disrupt it until the lazer turns their focus on them. But i just went 11/2 on top of the scaffolding above E in ambush, granted its ambush but still, there only a few points of attack most of which i can cover but has 2 snipers up there. Compounding the issue and this might be why lazer are downright nasty in some people's hand is i am using a navi controller and cheap optical mouse. Because of this i can keep my pointer on the lazer with almost no loss of contact especially if i use my left stick to match strafe speed. I didnt use one damage modifier, i had a type II suit, nano hive, sharpshooter at 3, LR operation at 3, and Weaponry 4 on my alt character. its very weak in terms of what it could be when fully maxed, and this was only the std tier I LR. Now i grant you it may not just be the LR itself obviously the mouse use may be as big the reason perhaps bigger, you're free to argue that but im sure there are plenty of controller users that can keep it steady just fine, especially since half the time you can just strafe and not really even have to adjust the aim. Also everyone will say its because i stayed in its range and it did its job. But its hard to fight something that can prevent you from ever getting in range. I mean as an area of denial weapon it perhaps works to well, even if i dont get you someone else usually will and if they dont and force you out of cover i will. The same can't be said of HMGs, MD, or SR with the SAME LEVEL OF FREQUENCY OF SUCCESS(emphasis not yelling). With regards to overheating and low clip. I found that my OCD nature of reloading after a kill works well when you have two hives to throw, are up at elevation and cant really be killed too easily. And the gun barely ever overheated because i could pulse
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.01 17:09:00 - [5] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: Just a fyi. Laser has a roughly 750 rpm firing rate and although it looks like a beam weapon damage is done to targets in pulses like an assault rifle. Facts seems to get lost in heated debating as always. I would love to know where that fact comes from, since nowhere in the description or attributes section does it state a rpm firing rate. Heat build up per second yes RPM firing rate no. Love it when people pull random "facts" and dont back them up.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.01 17:50:00 - [6] - Quote Okay its some nice numbers, but im a bit skeptical if only because i cant properly follow your work in the above link. I see you have factored in the damage coeffcient, Is that per "shot" is that the coefficient and how does the heat build up per second then factor into the damage. You say damage is done in pulses, suggesting that there is a break in which if the beam is focused on a target it does no damage. Based on your calculation it is 80ms. Now that is faster than the human eye can react, so obviously its too quick for me to perceive the stop in damage, from my end it looks as if the beam is continuing to damage, and when it "pulses" im simply getting an amplified level of damage, not a break in damage dealt and with an subsequent increase. All the math suggest is that damage done occurs in a linear fashion until it reaches overheating and that with each successive "shot" it becomes slightly stronger, this doesnt suggest or prove that the beam is firing in a pulsatile fashion, only the damage is increasing in a pulsatile fashion.