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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.12.29 23:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:You know that the only thing wrong with the LR right now is that you can boost its range to the absurd with the sharpshooter skill. Everything else is pretty much fine. The heat buildup might need to be sped up a tiny bit to bring the LR more in line with the recoil of traditional guns, but everything else...yeah, there's no reason to rant about it.
Some facts from Mr Musta Tornius:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=356717#post356717
Starting from Lasers:
Max Range: 81m
Optimal Range: 61 - 78m
Meta Level: 1
Elm-7 Laser Rifle
Max Range: 84m
Optimal Range: 62 - 79m
Meta Level: 4
Viziam Laser Rifle
Max Range: 84m
Optimal Range: 62 - 79m
Meta Level: 8
And here are some of the most popular AR's:
Tactical Assault Rifle
Max Range: 110m
Optimal Range: 1 - 71m
Meta Level: 2
GEK-38 Assault Rifle
Max Range: 83m
Optimal Range: 1 - 37m
Meta Level: 5
'Gorewreck' GK-13 Burst Assault Rifle
Max Range: 88m
Optimal Range: 1 - 39m
Meta Level: 7
'Killswitch' GEK-38 Assault Rifle
Max Range: 92m
Optimal Range: 1 - 41m
Meta Level: 7
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Max Range: 87m
Optimal Range: 1 - 39m
Meta Level: 8
Clearly your statement as it is is incorrect as the LR range is very much the same as AR's (with the exception of TAR's which are longer although have issues).
Skills are not the issue because sharpshooter skille increases by percentage which is the same to both weapons.
BUT the laser rifles are able to project their damage in inverse manner to AR's: while AR's are now getting inaccurate over range, laser stays accurate. But that is balanced nicely by total lack of stopping power in CQC which is very important. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 18:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:[quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous][quote=Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous]
The Imperfects have already have shown that lasers are OP. I can kill anybody with the damn toxin. We have went on the HK server and camped the South part of the map with all lasers. Guess what happen? Not one of us died and we combined to have 60+ kills. Yeah that CQC combat where laser suck, didn't even happen because nobody could reach my un-effective range because the lasers melted them in 2 seconds.
The only way a laser dies is if he doesn't see the enemy coming.
I can hold one corner of the map all by my self with the laser. Hey anybody can hold the corner of the map and have a great AOE with the laser all by themselves.
In that case it is ONLY holding - not attacking objectives or roaming around. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 18:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
I repeat what I said elsewhere:
While considering if any weapons system is OP, consider this:
Can it be used to roam solo? Own people where-ever you go?
If the answer is 'no', it is very likely that the weapon is NOT OP.
Some weapons can be great support weapons but requiring a team and lacking otherwise.
EDIT: Corrected a heavy typo which changed the meaning:
added the 'NOT' into the not op sentence. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Try firing a laser at a shield tank. Like an HAV. Then try stacking damage mods and do it again. Then come back and say "it's not broken, that Sagaris deserved to die in 3 clips".
When people said "my AR can't kill a tank" CCP put in lasers.
On LR's AV capabilities:
LR can't take out tanks, even shield tanks. I've tested 2-3 clips of Viziam onto them and that resulted as loss of maybe 20% shield.
So, what they can do is assist in taking tanks down when you have a blue tank/other AV firing on red tank.
Even then, firing three clips and reloading, takes quite a time.
In case I'm wrong, I'm gonna retest it within two days. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seems that this thread is going on two levels:
1) are laser rifles OP?
2) do laser rifles need tuning down or some other form of tweaking?
Because those two subtopics are not the same.
1) Being OP suggests that a weapon in question is superior in most cases and being 'the' weapon to use with no room for others.
That results in defensive comments from people, most LR users but not all, that no nerf is needed.
(I'm strong in my opinion that LR is not OP).
2) Now, THAT is the subject we should focus on. Is LR too strong in some part, even though it is supposed to be it's speciality? Is it doing something outside of it's speciality too well? Is it too weak in it's speciality? Could it's functionality (not power) be better, made smarter? Does it promote compromises and selections in both using and fitting?
(on that, I'm willing to say the heated up damage and the damage curve is too high - it CAN be tuned down or tweaked. More on that in my next post where I elaborate a bit.) |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 17:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
On heated up damage and the damage curve in general:
I'm willing to admit it is somewhat too high. But, everyone should remember it has still to be heated up giving plenty of warning to aware players and commits in when to try to hit.
I see two ways to balance things:
A) balance the heating up curve a bit, tune down the highest dps of last seconds. But, as a trade-off, tune up the early parts a bit.
What this does is taking some 'lightsabring' away and reduce some surprise las-mauling.
B) Remake the laser damage model to heat up per time on target.
That is what everybody initially expected the LR to do.
But there's a big but.
It may not be possible to code in well - system would have to track how many ticks a target has had consequtively. That system might be quite vulnerable to bad hit detection and and bad latency.
(only dust programmers would be able to give answer to that)
That would take away LR's area denial and group control properties as each target would have to be cooked separately.
Furthermore, it would be very very difficult to use if it requires to have LR on target for several seconds without missing a single tick!
Because of those last two points, the LR would most likely require damage buff in it's early heating curve as it is very unlikely that anyone would be able to keep 'beam' on infantry target spot on for 8 seconds or so, without a single loss of tick due aiming or bad hit detection. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 17:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gunner Visari wrote:Musta Tornius wrote:Just a fyi. Laser has a roughly 750 rpm firing rate and although it looks like a beam weapon damage is done to targets in pulses like an assault rifle.
Facts seems to get lost in heated debating as always. I would love to know where that fact comes from, since nowhere in the description or attributes section does it state a rpm firing rate. Heat build up per second yes RPM firing rate no. Love it when people pull random "facts" and dont back them up.
There was a proper thread on the calculation. Sadly Mr Musta didn't link it, but I'm trying to find out.
Gonna edit it here when I find...
EDIT: Link:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=389533#post389533
There's some cool fact... |
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