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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Icarus Slicks
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.12.19 00:20:00 -
[91] - Quote
xp3ll3d dust wrote:Icarus Slicks wrote:I am wondering how the process is of returning Gift Event Items? I would like to know since I haven't gone through a Character Reset. (Yet.) You log on, and you are presented with the list of allll the items you can claim. Exactly like you had to initially with your character when you first claimed it.
Oh, well that's simple to do. Nice to know that event items and such are simple to return. Thanks for telling me this. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.12.19 00:28:00 -
[92] - Quote
How was the character creation process "enhanced" |
Maximus Creed
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
68
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Posted - 2012.12.19 00:40:00 -
[93] - Quote
Don't like the daily cap Wang... why should I be at a disadvantage because I like to play once or twice a week for a 5 hour stint? |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
145
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 02:11:00 -
[94] - Quote
Cmdr Wang,
Question:
With Chromosome out, we the finalists of the Tourney be getting their rewards from their performances? And what about the Quafe suites? |
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CCP Cmdr Wang
C C P C C P Alliance
1876
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Posted - 2012.12.19 07:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
Maximus Creed wrote:Don't like the daily cap Wang... why should I be at a disadvantage because I like to play once or twice a week for a 5 hour stint?
You need to rest and regain your strength. Hint, hint. |
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CCP Cmdr Wang
C C P C C P Alliance
1876
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Posted - 2012.12.19 07:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Cmdr Wang,
Question:
With Chromosome out, we the finalists of the Tourney be getting their rewards from their performances? And what about the Quafe suites?
Both event rewards should be out this week. |
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Brass Stalker
Elite Mercenaries
17
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Posted - 2012.12.19 07:34:00 -
[97] - Quote
the active scanners? |
Mikel Dracionas
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
14
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Posted - 2012.12.19 07:50:00 -
[98] - Quote
Maximus Creed wrote:Don't like the daily cap Wang... why should I be at a disadvantage because I like to play once or twice a week for a 5 hour stint?
why should every one else be at a disadvantage because you feel you shouldnt be at one? the daily helps all of us i dont play much more then you but i pull in 20 to 30 k every match and meet my weakly cap after only 4 to 5 hours of play if that |
SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
253
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Posted - 2012.12.19 07:52:00 -
[99] - Quote
Can someone explain to me how the daily cap helps out people who fall behind in SP more than a weekly cap? It seems like it would have the opposite effect to me, giving the people who can play everyday the advantage. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
362
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Posted - 2012.12.19 07:59:00 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:Maximus Creed wrote:Don't like the daily cap Wang... why should I be at a disadvantage because I like to play once or twice a week for a 5 hour stint? You need to rest and regain your strength. Hint, hint. I'd really like to think there's something more to that statement than the obvious. |
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Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
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Posted - 2012.12.19 10:09:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:Lion Redstar wrote:With the daily skill cap, will the unused SP from one or more days gonna report to the next day? Not currently, the unspent SP don't accumulate, except passive SP. The SP cap is only for active SP gained from matches. Hey, I just posted an awesome way this could be implemented properly, for free, now go get some code monkey to implement it.
The implementations you've been jumping between have been rather full of suck.
To summarise:
- A two-week's worth of total quota, 1000k SP.
- Every day add 1000k/14 SP, up to max total quota.
- A logarithmically decreasing function is used to get the multiplier for match SP: [1.0-0.0>.
- Should be tuned so that a player playing... 15(or so?) good matches would end up with 500k left in quota.
- A hardcore player would end up after a week with a constant 50-150k in quota.
- Both get equal active SP as long as the casual doesn't let the quota get full by playing the 15 matches per week.
- Payouts for the hardcore player will remain relatively stable, avoiding rage.
- Make sure that exceptionally large base match SP is handled properly in the calculation in order to avoid draining the quota excessively.
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Odiain Suliis
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
112
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Posted - 2012.12.19 10:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:Lion Redstar wrote:With the daily skill cap, will the unused SP from one or more days gonna report to the next day? Not currently, the unspent SP don't accumulate, except passive SP. The SP cap is only for active SP gained from matches. Hey, I just posted an awesome way this could be implemented properly, for free, now go get some code monkey to implement it. The implementations you've been jumping between have been rather full of suck. To summarise:
- A two-week's worth of total quota, 1000k SP.
- Every day add 1000k/14 SP, up to max total quota.
- A logarithmically decreasing function is used to get the multiplier for match SP: [1.0-0.0>.
- Should be tuned so that a player playing... 15(or so?) good matches would end up with 500k left in quota.
- A hardcore player would end up after a week with a constant 50-150k in quota.
- Both get equal active SP as long as the casual doesn't let the quota get full by playing the 15 matches per week.
- Payouts for the hardcore player will remain relatively stable, avoiding rage.
- Make sure that exceptionally large base match SP is handled properly in the calculation in order to avoid draining the quota excessively.
That 1000k SP = 1000000SP = 1mil SP?
For SP progression that feels abit high, if it is supposed to be somewhat close to EVE's SP gain of aprox 1mil SP/month |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
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Posted - 2012.12.19 10:38:00 -
[103] - Quote
Odiain Suliis wrote:That 1000k SP = 1000000SP = 1mil SP?
For SP progression that feels abit high, if it is supposed to be somewhat close to EVE's SP gain of aprox 1mil SP/month Yes, numbers used for demonstrating an algorithm design are always balanced and ready for production use. |
Odiain Suliis
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
112
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Posted - 2012.12.19 10:41:00 -
[104] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Odiain Suliis wrote:That 1000k SP = 1000000SP = 1mil SP?
For SP progression that feels abit high, if it is supposed to be somewhat close to EVE's SP gain of aprox 1mil SP/month Yes, numbers used for demonstrating an algorithm design are always balanced and ready for production use.
:D Had to check. |
Average Joe81
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.12.19 12:36:00 -
[105] - Quote
Wheres the buff? for tanks i mean, after all a lot of people asked for it. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.12.19 12:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
Average Joe81 wrote:Wheres the buff? for tanks i mean, after all a lot of people asked for it. Correction: only ****** scrubs that can't use ARs properly are asking for it.
All sarcasm aside, you're going to have a hard time getting a buff on those things without people bitching that E3 is back. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 13:50:00 -
[107] - Quote
SATORI CORUSCANTi wrote:Can someone explain to me how the daily cap helps out people who fall behind in SP more than a weekly cap? It seems like it would have the opposite effect to me, giving the people who can play everyday the advantage. It can't be explained Satori - you are 100% right on this.
Rasatsu's proposal of SP accrual from a pool, with accrual rate modified by a logarithmic damping function is a great solution to the problem of balancing real-lifers vs. grinders.
This issue should be high on CCP's priority list as I suspect the real-lifers will be enthusiastic users of AUR, provided they feel that the game mechanics are treating them fairly.
Rasatsu's idea is fair to all playstyles. The nicest thing about Rasatsu's idea is it's psychological 'rightness' - logarithmic feedback feels natural and intuitive to us hairless ape types. It's something that we can estimate very accurately once we have a little hands-on experience with the system - no math, calculators or spreadsheets required.
For CCP the takeaway message is you good peeps don't have to agonize over balancing playstyles if you employ a sp reward system like Rasatsu's, and that in all likelihood the playerbase will take to it like ducks to water. People can smell justice, even if they can't verbalize it. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.12.19 13:56:00 -
[108] - Quote
Chirico Red Shoulder wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Chirico Red Shoulder wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:When will swarms stop bending around cover and locking on through cover? when tanks stop hiding and sniping behind buildings in their ground spawn. TBH swarms cause it the consequence is my tank stay back for longer Fix that problem and i might come out to kill you more Until that problem is fixed, I advise you to stay in the red line, or better don't call out your HAV if you see me on the other side. For the record, you always hurt your team more than actually do any good. Whenever you're on my team, I go out of my way and leave all null cannons to be hacked just to hack the supply depots before you destroy them and leave us hanging with no way to diversify our game play. When you're on the opposing team, well...I either keep you back in your red line, or destroy you just like last weekend when I wrecked your surya killing you and your two gunners. suggestion, why don't you spec into sniper rifles? with enough damage modifiers, a charge sniper rifle can snipe just as good as a surya or a sagaris, and is much much cheaper, and you don't get swarmed while using them.
lol killing a suyra before the patch was even easier anyways, swarms do stupid amount of damage for such a long distance just lock on through cover jump and fire and its a win not too mention they follow you around cover which anyone can do
You cant gloat about destroying any armor tank when you use godlike swarms
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Maximus Creed
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
68
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Posted - 2012.12.19 19:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:Maximus Creed wrote:Don't like the daily cap Wang... why should I be at a disadvantage because I like to play once or twice a week for a 5 hour stint? You need to rest and regain your strength. Hint, hint. I'd really like to think there's something more to that statement than the obvious.
CCP Cmdr Wang, thanks for the response, but it is a serious point...
If you have a daily SP cap, what is the point of an SP cap at all? Let me try to explain...
Let's say our playerbase consists of 4 types of player:
- Casual: Plays a couple of times a week for an hour or so (average weekly play: 3 hours)
- Hardcore Type A: Plays 2 or 3 times a week in long stints of 5 or so hours (average weekly play: 10-15 hours)
- Hardcore Type B: Plays every day for an hour or three (average weekly play: 10-15 hours)
- Super-Hardcore: Plays 5-10 hours every day (average weekly play: 30-50 hours)
I would imagine roughly 35% of the playerbase would be Casual gamers and 60% Hardcore (30% type A and 30% type B), and the remaining 5% are the Super-Hardcore.
[EDIT]: There may actually be a lot more casual players than that, but the number of casual players is irrelevant in the context of this argument.
Yes this is a heavily simplified view of the playerbase, but in my mind pretty accurate.
Now, our requirement:
- In the long term, Super-Hardcore players should not be able to gain more SP than Hardcore players.
(the Casual gamers wont expect to keep up with the Hardcore gamers, so we keep them out of the requirement to 'keep up' skillpoint-wise).
Notice 'long term'. It is SP difference over time which matters.
Comparison of different SP caps:
- Daily SP cap: Allows the Hardcore type B to keep up with Super-Hardcore, but not the type A.
- Weekly SP cap: Allows both types to keep up with Super-Hardcore, but is bloody annoying for type B.
On the face of it, the weekly SP cap was the lesser of two evils. Please consider other options! |
Maximus Creed
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 20:00:00 -
[110] - Quote
double-post. sorry! |
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 20:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
Maximus Creed wrote:Great stuff. Nice analysis Maximus. Thanks for the clear thinking. |
Average Joe81
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.12.19 22:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Average Joe81 wrote:Wheres the buff? for tanks i mean, after all a lot of people asked for it. Correction: only ****** scrubs that can't use ARs properly are asking for it. All sarcasm aside, you're going to have a hard time getting a buff on those things without people bitching that E3 is back. surpass my multi kill ratio with AR of 7 and then come a *****'n about how I can't use ARs. by the way, it was a malitia AR and I was in a logi suit. and also only one of them had been droped to low health so dont use that as an excuse. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 10:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
Maximus Creed wrote:On the face of it, the weekly SP cap was the lesser of two evils. Please consider other options! Why consider any of the evils when I've posted a pretty straight-forward solution that isn't evil?
I've worked quite a lot with these kinds of algorithms in the network world, so it's not like it's an amateur opinion. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 13:30:00 -
[114] - Quote
I'd like to see a daily "diminishing returns" effect, but one which works gradually, not hitting players hard, and with smaller modifiers being applied the longer you play - basically like a "stacking penalty" on the negative modifiers for long-term play.
There should also be a weekly "hard" cap on SP earnings, preferably with a series of thresholds that provide negative modifiers as well.
That would mean that people with only a day or two of playtime could grind for several hours and still be reasonably expected to keep up with the daily players who have a similar amount of total playtime.
To integrate the above restrictions into a coherent form, only the higher of the two applicable modifiers should be used. If you have a -100% modifier from hitting the weekly SP cap, you shouldn't have the daily modifier counted as well, because that will mean you lose SP for playing, and that's a terrible idea.
More importantly than this change, though, is that I want MORE TRANSPARENCY in the SP system. We need a way to see the following details:
1. Base SP earned (possibly with a further breakdown of SP from kills, SP from objectives and SP from destruction) 2. Booster modifier (if applicable, possibly with an ad for "you could have bought a booster for X AUR and got this bonus") 3. Currently-active diminishing returns modifier
Point 3 is the key thing we're not being told. Show players what our limits are, what's happening to "our" SP when we go into a match, so we aren't coming here and screaming "you stole my SP, stupid hard cap" or similar, less-polite reactions. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:35:00 -
[115] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I'd like to see a daily "diminishing returns" effect, but one which works gradually, not hitting players hard, and with smaller modifiers being applied the longer you play - basically like a "stacking penalty" on the negative modifiers for long-term play.
There should also be a weekly "hard" cap on SP earnings, preferably with a series of thresholds that provide negative modifiers as well.
That would mean that people with only a day or two of playtime could grind for several hours and still be reasonably expected to keep up with the daily players who have a similar amount of total playtime.
To integrate the above restrictions into a coherent form, only the higher of the two applicable modifiers should be used. If you have a -100% modifier from hitting the weekly SP cap, you shouldn't have the daily modifier counted as well, because that will mean you lose SP for playing, and that's a terrible idea.
More importantly than this change, though, is that I want MORE TRANSPARENCY in the SP system. We need a way to see the following details:
1. Base SP earned (possibly with a further breakdown of SP from kills, SP from objectives and SP from destruction) 2. Booster modifier (if applicable, possibly with an ad for "you could have bought a booster for X AUR and got this bonus") 3. Currently-active diminishing returns modifier
Point 3 is the key thing we're not being told. Show players what our limits are, what's happening to "our" SP when we go into a match, so we aren't coming here and screaming "you stole my SP, stupid hard cap" or similar, less-polite reactions.
Posted something in another thread about sp that kinda sounds like this as well. Mix of a weekly (why not even monthly) and daily cap ? Also had an interesting talk on IRC with other players about cool ideas.
Anyway, only sur thing i can add is what CCP_Praetorian tweeted me yesterday : "We want to ensure that players progress (sp) similar if they started at the same time. " https://twitter.com/CCP_Praetorian/status/281403441752977409
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Ddraig X
Vitriol Ventures Tribal Band
0
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
Forgive me if I've missed it
But it says that EVE Players can now to Orbital Bombardment....Where can I find out how to do this as an eve player. Also which (singularity, buckingham?) server do I need to be on, and what version should it be.
Thanks, |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:56:00 -
[117] - Quote
Ddraig X wrote:Forgive me if I've missed it
But it says that EVE Players can now to Orbital Bombardment....Where can I find out how to do this as an eve player. Also which (singularity, buckingham?) server do I need to be on, and what version should it be.
Thanks, We're on Singularity, but so far, all battles are happening in Jove space. Good luck getting there. |
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CCP Cmdr Wang
C C P C C P Alliance
1876
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Posted - 2012.12.21 05:50:00 -
[118] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:I'd like to see a daily "diminishing returns" effect, but one which works gradually, not hitting players hard, and with smaller modifiers being applied the longer you play - basically like a "stacking penalty" on the negative modifiers for long-term play.
There should also be a weekly "hard" cap on SP earnings, preferably with a series of thresholds that provide negative modifiers as well.
That would mean that people with only a day or two of playtime could grind for several hours and still be reasonably expected to keep up with the daily players who have a similar amount of total playtime.
To integrate the above restrictions into a coherent form, only the higher of the two applicable modifiers should be used. If you have a -100% modifier from hitting the weekly SP cap, you shouldn't have the daily modifier counted as well, because that will mean you lose SP for playing, and that's a terrible idea.
More importantly than this change, though, is that I want MORE TRANSPARENCY in the SP system. We need a way to see the following details:
1. Base SP earned (possibly with a further breakdown of SP from kills, SP from objectives and SP from destruction) 2. Booster modifier (if applicable, possibly with an ad for "you could have bought a booster for X AUR and got this bonus") 3. Currently-active diminishing returns modifier
Point 3 is the key thing we're not being told. Show players what our limits are, what's happening to "our" SP when we go into a match, so we aren't coming here and screaming "you stole my SP, stupid hard cap" or similar, less-polite reactions. Posted something in another thread about sp that kinda sounds like this as well. Mix of a weekly (why not even monthly) and daily cap ? Also had an interesting talk on IRC with other players about cool ideas. Anyway, only sur thing i can add is what CCP_Praetorian tweeted me yesterday : "We want to ensure that players progress (sp) similar if they started at the same time. "https://twitter.com/CCP_Praetorian/status/281403441752977409
We do plan to improve the SP cap system with future iterations that will be more sophisticated than the current daily SP cap. Thanks for all the suggestions and time spent in testing this system. The difference in opinon on whether a weekly or daily SP cap seems to be based on player preference and play style, and we will find a system that can best accomodate both and retain balance. |
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Sgt Kirk
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
347
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Posted - 2012.12.21 06:05:00 -
[119] - Quote
I think this picture sums it up nicely. |
Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
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Posted - 2012.12.21 07:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
dude that's messed up. the whole picture. I get what your going for but seriously.... |
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