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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.11.10 23:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
And it was terrible.
It was even a logistics dropship, and it was worthless as a transport. If it tried hovering over a certain point, it would get hit; if people tried jumping out while it was moving, they would fly out at an angle (pretty good physics) into an area they can't predict- not to mention you can't see where you're trying to jump out at.
I think it's a major problem if dropships are a better assault vehicle than an actual transport- which is what they're meant to do.
Any ideas how to fix this?'
EDIT: My main idea so far, along with giving dropships countermeasures (already a planned feature), is to make it so that turrets can only fire when the doors of the dropship are open. That way, the dropship only fires when the troops inside of it are vulnerable- if the pilot opens the doors for any time except dropping off troops, sure they'll be able to fire, but the gunners and passengers will die very easily. |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2012.11.10 23:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
slow em down give more armor and make them more stable |
Dreylor Thunderfall
Conspiratus Immortalis
44
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Posted - 2012.11.10 23:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
we use the momentum of our droppers and plan ahead and tell our squads when to jump... it gives us a good advantage.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.11.10 23:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ops Fox wrote:slow em down give more armor and make them more stable keep in mind dropships are light vehicles- so they should pretty much be flying LAVs |
Shiro Mokuzan
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
106
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Posted - 2012.11.10 23:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
You can predict where they'll land out of a moving dropship. Like anything else, it takes practice.
Even if you want to stop over the insertion point, it only takes a split second if you have a coordinated team on comms. |
Shiro Mokuzan
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
106
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Posted - 2012.11.10 23:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Ops Fox wrote:slow em down give more armor and make them more stable keep in mind dropships are light vehicles- so they should pretty much be flying LAVs No, they're medium according to their icons. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 23:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Ops Fox wrote:slow em down give more armor and make them more stable keep in mind dropships are light vehicles- so they should pretty much be flying LAVs
They're medium. And they shouldn't be "Flying LAVs" unless you knock the price down a shitload like an LAV. Scrap it being a Light or Medium vehicle, I can easily fix this.
- Make them Heavy Vehicles - Massively increase their Armor/Shields - Make them less Agile - Lower their top speed
Seperate Issues: - Fix Turrets - Reduce Swarm Knockback by a ton
Oh look, a perfectly viable Dropship used for Transport instead of getting smashed up immediately
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 23:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Ops Fox wrote:slow em down give more armor and make them more stable keep in mind dropships are light vehicles- so they should pretty much be flying LAVs No, they're medium according to their icons.
Now that's a problem- there's medium armor, but not medium shields |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
What I find weird is that the popular suggestion for making dropships better transports is to SLOW THEM DOWN!?!?!?!? I sense a very slight lapse in logic...
I think the first problem here is that there aren't any other air vehicles to fly alongside the dropship as escorts - that's right, my first suggestion is for fighters. Once we have a bona fide assault vehicle, the enemy is far more likely to focus on them than the transports.
As for the ships themselves, they should be somewhat quick and somewhat agile, yet have some measure of defeating attacks. How about EVE's Electronic Warfare?
An ECM burst module would break missile locks immediately, yet mess up friendlies that are too close as a balancing device.
Target jammers would be controlled by the passengers (focus on flying!), and would jam (with diminishing returns) whatever enemy you point it at.
Lastly, there's the ECCM, which takes the form of a comms dish that interlinks with allies, boosting their resistance to offensive jamming. I envision this defense would be most useful as a series of communication installations, as vulnerable to attack and hacking as any other. As an EVE veteran would expect, these towers would be priority #1 in an assault. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 00:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:What I find weird is that the popular suggestion for making dropships better transports is to SLOW THEM DOWN!?!?!?!? I sense a very slight lapse in logic...
I think the first problem here is that there aren't any other air vehicles to fly alongside the dropship as escorts - that's right, my first suggestion is for fighters. Once we have a bona fide assault vehicle, the enemy is far more likely to focus on them than the transports.
As for the ships themselves, they should be somewhat quick and somewhat agile, yet have some measure of defeating attacks. How about EVE's Electronic Warfare?
An ECM burst module would break missile locks immediately, yet mess up friendlies that are too close as a balancing device.
Target jammers would be controlled by the passengers (focus on flying!), and would jam (with diminishing returns) whatever enemy you point it at.
Lastly, there's the ECCM, which takes the form of a comms dish that interlinks with allies, boosting their resistance to offensive jamming. I envision this defense would be most useful as a series of communication installations, as vulnerable to attack and hacking as any other. As an EVE veteran would expect, these towers would be priority #1 in an assault. I like it- another solution to add to this would be to put the turrets INSIDE the doors of the dropship (in a position where nobody can fire when the doors are closed, ofc)-
gunners would only be able to fire when the pilot manually opens the doors, or when they automatically open (when they get close to the ground); these doors really need to be looked at more closely. The only advantage to having them open now is if you either are letting someone in, or if you for some reason don't want to protect your passengers. |
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:What I find weird is that the popular suggestion for making dropships better transports is to SLOW THEM DOWN!?!?!?!? I sense a very slight lapse in logic...
Not really a "lapse in logic" but a different look at Dropships completely Suggesting Fast ones means they shouldn't be that strong, considering they would be a lot harder to hit
Personally, I see Dropships as Heavy transport vehicles that move slowly through the air due to it being heavily armored (to protect passengers) and assure it gets there. I'd like to see a Dropship with more Armor and Shielding than an RDV (A lot more) but with less offensive capability. So, sure, my Ship will be very hard to kill but it won't be fire down at you and ohk you (Perhaps a Weaponless Variant?) |
Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
until we have other air vehicles we cant just nerf dropships to transports with blasters only. im sure ccp is trying to figure out a way to balance it to where it is still a viable way of air support (firepower and pickup/dropoff). until the day we have bombers,fighters,and other air vehicles they should not nerf them to transports only. ccp im sure is working on this now they dont need to be reminded every 30 min that ds are op i think they know by now. yes i know this thread wasnt calling them op im refering to the other 100 threads about it lol. Thanks |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:What I find weird is that the popular suggestion for making dropships better transports is to SLOW THEM DOWN!?!?!?!? I sense a very slight lapse in logic...
Not really a "lapse in logic" but a different look at Dropships completely Suggesting Fast ones means they shouldn't be that strong, considering they would be a lot harder to hit Personally, I see Dropships as Heavy transport vehicles that move slowly through the air due to it being heavily armored (to protect passengers) and assure it gets there. I'd like to see a Dropship with more Armor and Shielding than an RDV (A lot more) but with less offensive capability. So, sure, my Ship will be very hard to kill but it won't be fire down at you and ohk you (Perhaps a Weaponless Variant?)
for those who don't know, we already have a large, slow, armored transport ship, and It is called a MCC. |
Tsuke Thirteen
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bump armor enough to support a safe landing ------ reduce guns
Dropship =/= Gunship
96.7% of Dropships are being used as flying tanks. Remove missile turrets, blasters can defend when the ship touches down or provide crowd control as it evacs.
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:What I find weird is that the popular suggestion for making dropships better transports is to SLOW THEM DOWN!?!?!?!? I sense a very slight lapse in logic...
Not really a "lapse in logic" but a different look at Dropships completely Suggesting Fast ones means they shouldn't be that strong, considering they would be a lot harder to hit Personally, I see Dropships as Heavy transport vehicles that move slowly through the air due to it being heavily armored (to protect passengers) and assure it gets there. I'd like to see a Dropship with more Armor and Shielding than an RDV (A lot more) but with less offensive capability. So, sure, my Ship will be very hard to kill but it won't be fire down at you and ohk you (Perhaps a Weaponless Variant?) for those who don't know, we already have a large, slow, armored transport ship, and It is called a MCC.
Mobile Command Centre really sounds like a Transport Dropship, Thanks for clearing that up fella. -_- |
Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
good idea mcbob |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tsuke Thirteen wrote: blasters can defend when the ship touches down or provide crowd control as it evacs.
Ahahahahahaha such a great joke mate.. Oh, you're serious? LOL Are you dizzy blud? Anything with Small Blasters is pretty much useless, especially Dropships. Honestly, just removing weapons completely and giving Dropships massive HP buffs would be a lot nice than using blasters.. lol small blasters -_- |
Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tsuke Thirteen wrote:Bump armor enough to support a safe landing ------ reduce guns
Dropship =/= Gunship
96.7% of Dropships are being used as flying tanks. Remove missile turrets, blasters can defend when the ship touches down or provide crowd control as it evacs.
please explain the wp blaters are pretty hard to kill with while moving and if you arent moveing then your dead. people start thinking would you want to fly a ds if you got 200 wp in a match and even better question would you want to gun one? until ccp finds a way to give wp to pilots and reduce the firepower they shouldnt make it fit only blasters.
it still doesnt matter if they have super armor and sheilds if it doesnt give you wp why would you want to fly it |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Wako 75 wrote:Tsuke Thirteen wrote:Bump armor enough to support a safe landing ------ reduce guns
Dropship =/= Gunship
96.7% of Dropships are being used as flying tanks. Remove missile turrets, blasters can defend when the ship touches down or provide crowd control as it evacs.
please explain the wp blaters are pretty hard to kill with while moving and if you arent moveing then your dead. people start thinking would you want to fly a ds if you got 200 wp in a match and even better question would you want to gun one? until ccp finds a way to give wp to pilots and reduce the firepower they shouldnt make it fit only blasters. it still doesnt matter if they have super armor and sheilds if it doesnt give you wp why would you want to fly it
Some Pilots don't think about themselves gaining WP in a match (especially corp matches and stuff), and are more focused on winning. We do our jobs by dropping people off at Objectives and giving good mobile spawn locations, If we had buffed HP it would be a lot nicer. |
Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
i could see in a corp match but you should still make wp in any match no matter what you do i would like someone to come up with ideas for a way for ds pilots to make wp without killing people and a way to where it cant be exploited |
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ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wako 75 wrote:i could see in a corp match but you should still make wp in any match no matter what you do i would like someone to come up with ideas for a way for ds pilots to make wp without killing people and a way to where it cant be exploited I remember someone bring up the idea of Vehicles rearming and/or repping people riding inside them.
just a thought.
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Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:Wako 75 wrote:i could see in a corp match but you should still make wp in any match no matter what you do i would like someone to come up with ideas for a way for ds pilots to make wp without killing people and a way to where it cant be exploited I remember someone bring up the idea of Vehicles rearming and/or repping people riding inside them. just a thought.
rearming? as in giveing ammo |
Knightshade Belladonna
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
288
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wako 75 wrote:ugg reset wrote:Wako 75 wrote:i could see in a corp match but you should still make wp in any match no matter what you do i would like someone to come up with ideas for a way for ds pilots to make wp without killing people and a way to where it cant be exploited I remember someone bring up the idea of Vehicles rearming and/or repping people riding inside them. just a thought. rearming? as in giveing ammo
idea: DS pilot equips CRU, once inside ship pilot begins to gain a set amount of wp per minute while in flight. This forces them to use a cru so troops can spawn and jump, and gives them wp without shooting a gun. Have a cap set for whatever the wp would be in 15 min. Reduce assist points gained for pilot from gunner. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 02:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
How about maps that promote a need to move infantry and demote bombing by having facilities that actually provide cover? On the same note, perhaps have landing pads that "snap" the ship onto the pad without damage turning them into strategic points? |
Tyrus Four
128
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Posted - 2012.11.11 02:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Whats the issue with low-altitude drops? I'm asking honestly because I don't use or ride in dropships for the most part.
imo, as big as the maps are, they are still too small for dropships to be needed anyway.
that said, dropships should be able to rapidly descend to a very low altitude, while still hovering, drop troops off, and then rapidly ascend away from infantry fire.
and for pickups, obviously, Infantry's job is to ensure that the LZ is clear and dropships are not getting fired on when they drop in. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 02:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:How about maps that promote a need to move infantry and demote bombing by having facilities that actually provide cover? On the same note, perhaps have landing pads that "snap" the ship onto the pad without damage turning them into strategic points?
Drop ships can now touch the ground without taking dammage and you can be very surgical if you know how.
Quote:rearming? as in giveing ammo
rearming: provide with new supplies of weapons.
ya, pretty much |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 02:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:How about maps that promote a need to move infantry and demote bombing by having facilities that actually provide cover? On the same note, perhaps have landing pads that "snap" the ship onto the pad without damage turning them into strategic points? The plateaus district (the one with every map in it except ashland) has a massive plateau (thus the name) that I doubt infantry would have an easy time getting to the top of. Dropships would be extremely useful there. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 02:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:How about maps that promote a need to move infantry and demote bombing by having facilities that actually provide cover? On the same note, perhaps have landing pads that "snap" the ship onto the pad without damage turning them into strategic points? Drop ships can now touch the ground without taking dammage and you can be very surgical if you know how. Quote:rearming? as in giveing ammo rearming: provide with new supplies of weapons. ya, pretty much
Landing without taking 500+ damage requires coming to a dead, level halt. Not something that can be done reliably in less than 15 seconds (which is the maximum time a transport can expect to survive hovering still by the ground). |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 02:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tyrus Four wrote:Whats the issue with low-altitude drops? I'm asking honestly because I don't use or ride in dropships for the most part.
imo, as big as the maps are, they are still too small for dropships to be needed anyway.
that said, dropships should be able to rapidly descend to a very low altitude, while still hovering, drop troops off, and then rapidly ascend away from infantry fire.
and for pickups, obviously, Infantry's job is to ensure that the LZ is clear and dropships are not getting fired on when they drop in.
Ever seen a Dropship get flipped by Swarms? If you have, picture it getting flipped but closer to the ground/or buildings, which will usually mean instant death. Once Swarm Knockback isn't ********, we might be able to do that a lot easier. At the same time, staying in one place for more than a few seconds is a bad idea due to two things: Forge Guns (And their godly range and damage) and Swarms (Being able to literally lock on from miles away). Gotta keep moving, so a Dropship will rarely ever go in to pick up troops (I've tried, taken off from base in Skirmish, got chased by about 5 batches of swarms, gone in to pick up squad mates, been flipped and blown up on said squad mates) |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.11.11 02:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:How about maps that promote a need to move infantry and demote bombing by having facilities that actually provide cover? On the same note, perhaps have landing pads that "snap" the ship onto the pad without damage turning them into strategic points?
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