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HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.11.02 03:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Just go play another game if you don't want vehicles to be a factor.
I'd be fine with having more terrain that limits their effectiveness, but there shouldn't be a "no vehicles" mode any more than there should be a " no heavies" or "no shotguns" mode.
" no heavies" |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 05:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'd go with it but only if the Vehicles are NOT restricted. Make it useless to deploy a vehicle instead (Indoor maps) |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 06:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
aw somebody doesnt like dying to tanks lol.
tech, shouldnt you go answer your call? your call to duty? lol had to be done, but really, they dont have any vehicles |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 07:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:aw somebody doesnt like dying to tanks lol. tech, shouldnt you go answer your call? your call to duty? lol had to be done, but really, they dont have any vehicles
It was just a tank Lurch so call in some more vehicle popcorn as its not fair to have forge gunners on the unemployment line
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Bishop Sunrunner
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.11.02 14:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
three point capture maps are already a infantry only map for me. you dont need any of those transport vehicles. done |
Chalybeia Aquila
Doomheim
10
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Posted - 2012.11.02 18:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Chalybeia Aquila wrote:No they wont do this but there will be maps with huge downsides for tankers etc. why do you think that?
Because there will be maps from all environments. Have you seen a tank driving in a house or similar. The biomass map is a example for this. |
Frxn
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.11.02 23:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Underground bunker style things. Operation Metro from BF3 is one of the best examples of this type of map IMHO.
Metro is one of the worst Battlefield maps ever created, in the context of a Battlefield game, obviously such a map could be suited to another popular franchise. I seriously believe the focus they've put on inf-only is one of the biggest factors to the overall watering down of the series. Sure, we have freedom of choice, but as a BF vet, BF3 just doesn't feel like "Battlefield".
Don't care if I'm thought of as elitist or whatever for this, but most vets will agree with me, especially the last bit.
Anyway, I'd rather if CCP were to do this, they do it when - what I see as - other more important aspects of the game are finished. Sure maps don't take a lot of time to make (depending on a few factors of course), but it's still an unnecessary distraction.
Needless to say, I personally play these games for the vehicular combat. if I want to play an infantry shooter then I load up Counter-Strike. There's more than enough inf combat going on in this game anyway so I don't see any need for inf only. |
Deskalkulos Ildigan
CrimeWave Syndicate
115
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 23:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote: [...] Replace Map with Gamemode. There shouldn't be a single map/gamemode that limits me in calling in whatever I damn well please in terms of mechanics. No gamemode restrictions saying "Sorry mate, but you spent 3mil SP on Vehicles so **** YOU, go play with your militia gear with not even 100k SP in actual infantry based skills", instead I said there should totally be map limitations in the sense that theres lots of alleys or a lot of cover from above. Buildings with inside and such. Any more flaws in my post you want to point out? The idea itself is still just bad.
Can't find other flaws in your post (not that i am actually searching for them the others kinda jumped into my face), the version now is boiled down to the point of personal preference. You say "Screw 90% of players with absolutely no AV skills" and i say "Screw <10% of players with only vehicle skills, you had your fun mass murdering everyone, now we want some time for us" I won't bring the SP into the discussion for a specific reason: I am a supporter and thanks to some ... let's call them ... "parasprites" ... my warpoint income now is only a fraction of the one i once got, because honestly i suck at killing (which is why i decided to help others with their killing, even stopping my beloved sniping; and yes i know that assists, hacking and reviving / refilling still nets me points). So i could actually whine a whole lot more to you about how unfair i deem it is to not get the recognition i think i deserve for helping my teammates staying alive (i won't revive everyone, there are some lost causes here and there, where i would die before i could successfully revive them), and how this directly affects my progression with the logistic suits and the repair tools / droplinks (i have nanohives on 4 and don't intend to go any further). So you see if you whine about how you have <100k in "foot combat skills" i have no way to tell you what i think about this without getting at least a warning for excessive swearing and diffamation. At least you get points for what you're good at. I don't. No points at all. But it wouldn't contribute to the discussion at all. Because you'd still think that it is a bad idea, whereas i would still think that even you would benefit from this gamemode, because you'd actually learn how to play on foot (I dont kill many guys but i do kill some, even though they are higher specced than i am, and if i do pull that off it is mostly due to my nonexistent skills. Hell i am even satisfied if i am able to nearly kill a heavy, curse you reloading time). Or to show it from another point: You can cover for differences in equipment / ingame skill with real "skills" pretty good, whereas you cannot cover for nonexistent AV skills with skill. "You only have militia SL? Oh well have fun destroying my non militia tank with non militia repair modules, i help you by not moving an inch". And yes you are not supposed to be able to take out a tank alone, but a team of 5-6 should at least have a chance (I can assure you that 5-6 are more than enough to take out a heavy. At least the heavies i have encountered till today), as long as they don't run directly at it / flock together. I could say quite some more things but they would be mostly with no substance and or repeating things. It really is a matter of personalities. |
Andius Fidelitas
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.11.02 23:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
This great for say, a tournament. Outside of a sporting settings, you have ignored one crucial factor:
This is New Eden.
EVE online has no "frigates only combat" mechanic, only the players do that via the Red vs Blue wars (keyword, players). Since this MMO is a free for all, I doubt that there will be such thing as a pure infantry map in capturable planets. At best, you can hope for planet complexes where vehicles are useless, and only infantry can access said complexes (Or if the complex is not worth capturing, blow it sky high with tank and artillery weapons. ) |
Deskalkulos Ildigan
CrimeWave Syndicate
115
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 01:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
Andius Fidelitas wrote:This great for say, a tournament. Outside of a sporting settings, you have ignored one crucial factor: This is New Eden. EVE online has no "frigates only combat" mechanic, only the players do that via the Red vs Blue wars (keyword, players). Since this MMO is a free for all, I doubt that there will be such thing as a pure infantry map in capturable planets. At best, you can hope for planet complexes where vehicles are useless, and only infantry can access said complexes (Or if the complex is not worth capturing, blow it sky high with tank and artillery weapons. )
Actually i do doubt that there will be such a gamemode (although i'd really like such a mode, it doesn't even have to net you SP or isk, more like a tutorial/training pvp-style, just to relax a bit from the vehicle madness [like i would relax in eve only by spinning my ship in a station]), although it is not impossible (Dust is a different game from eve, you can actively gain a certain amount of SP instead of only passively gaining them like in eve for example), so there might eventually turn up such a thing. If it does not turn up, i am not too new in "not getting what i want for this game" (I was against KB/M and still am) and will probably move on (although slightly annoyed for some time). But the low chance of actually occuring doesn't make it a bad idea.
Frxn wrote:Tony Calif wrote:Underground bunker style things. Operation Metro from BF3 is one of the best examples of this type of map IMHO. Metro is one of the worst Battlefield maps ever created, in the context of a Battlefield game, obviously such a map could be suited to another popular franchise. I seriously believe the focus they've put on inf-only is one of the biggest factors to the overall watering down of the series. Sure, we have freedom of choice, but as a BF vet, BF3 just doesn't feel like "Battlefield". Don't care if I'm thought of as elitist or whatever for this, but most vets will agree with me, especially the last bit. Anyway, I'd rather if CCP were to do this, they do it when - what I see as - other more important aspects of the game are finished. Sure maps don't take a lot of time to make (depending on a few factors of course), but it's still an unnecessary distraction. Needless to say, I personally play these games for the vehicular combat. if I want to play an infantry shooter then I load up Counter-Strike. There's more than enough inf combat going on in this game anyway so I don't see any need for inf only.
to make it (too) simple its the wet dream of having all your favorite fps in one game. Only one game to care about progression. If i could add Mirrors Edge/Brink-like gameplay into Dust514 via seperate gamemode, i would do it. I do however see the danger of watering down the experience as a whole. |
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Edu Ashbourne
Doomheim
54
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 08:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
I'd much prefer the interiors/underground idea to flat out banning drops. Sometimes you need vehicles to cover ground more quickly or to keep a mobile spawn point.
You could have areas that are barricaded off so ground vehicles can't enter them and add hazards or obstructions above, so drop orders are rejected and nobody can just fly over the wall. Little safe havens from the guy who spawns a dropship and spawns rockets at everybody. |
RO1MO69
Prima Gallicus
1
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Posted - 2012.11.05 00:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry.
Topic.
+1
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 08:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Sha Kharn Clone wrote:+ 1 billion.
Otherwise wuts the point of infantry. LAV can go everywhere there is no point in infantry really.
Whats wrong with just one district on a planet having an underground HQ or a massive warehouse or somthing.
Or some jungle or forests or well anything other than owide open areas everywhere.
+1 Balance by giving both their strong environments. Otherwise it's just RPS, not skill based. Still, EVERY map should have sections like this. It is more interesting to have multiple options than to just separate into different gamemodes. Emergent gameplay.
I hope that something like this is enabled when we get larger game areas.
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 09:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well we are getting installation drops in Ambush maps so hopefully there will be some interior only maps next build?? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 12:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:No, you shouldn't be able to filter out the kinds of things you have trouble fighting against. What they've done with maps right now is to make some areas fairly open and vehicle-friendly, while other areas are more urban/built-up and safer for infantry. That's the ideal solution.
So if you want to avoid vehicles, then fight in areas of the existing maps where tanks/whatever can't navigate as easily. But further dividing the playerbase between more and more game modes would be a bad idea. +1 |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
190
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 18:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
There's nothing stopping you from organizing "Honor fites" with corporations to do infantry only. Why ask CCP to spend the time and effort best spent on more important things just to "fix" something we already have? You'd even get better quality fights this way over matches that will inevitably have 90% new and disorganized players.
+1 for Fivetimes |
Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 19:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Vehicles are another players playstyle and therefore totally fine for any match. We shouldn't limit vehicles to certain maps by map based restrictions automatically disallowing them. By all means, have maps that make it unsuitable for Vehicle combat, such as a suburb area with lots of alleys with no place to actually place a tank, or with only a few places that are suitable for them. Places with lot's of shelters to protect from dropships and other air vehicles.
Right now, what you're proposing is just bad imo. They can play all they want on the maps, in the Vehicle only mode. Which is what the regular mode we play now is turning into. As for sections of the map vehicles can't get to? In all of Dust right now there is less than 20 square meters that is entirely protected from any and all damage than can be dealt by some vehicles weapons.
Yes, there are those who Want to use vehicles and have specced into them.
You are forgetting that there are whole groups of people who have NO specs in av and who do NOT want to play against a constant stream of tanks and dropships everyday, and these people should have the option to play without those issues popping up. They shouldn't all have to learn AV skills just to get to play the way THEY want to when the field is finally vehicle free, if the field is finally vehicle free, at the end of the match after all of the vehicles are disposed of.
This would be especially good for new players who are just starting out and have no idea about the missile splash damage fest they are blindly walking into. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 19:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vehicles should NEVER be restricted, they should just be less ideal to deploy in certain maps/nodes. |
CandleJack more rope
27
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 19:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry.
Topic. O look A COD Noob! |
Dev Mason
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 23:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
meh, nahh, i like playing ambush and having people call out there dropship or a HAV, makes it more interesting |
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Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
190
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 23:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Overlord Zero wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Vehicles are another players playstyle and therefore totally fine for any match. We shouldn't limit vehicles to certain maps by map based restrictions automatically disallowing them. By all means, have maps that make it unsuitable for Vehicle combat, such as a suburb area with lots of alleys with no place to actually place a tank, or with only a few places that are suitable for them. Places with lot's of shelters to protect from dropships and other air vehicles.
Right now, what you're proposing is just bad imo. They can play all they want on the maps, in the Vehicle only mode. Which is what the regular mode we play now is turning into. As for sections of the map vehicles can't get to? In all of Dust right now there is less than 20 square meters that is entirely protected from any and all damage than can be dealt by some vehicles weapons. Yes, there are those who Want to use vehicles and have specced into them. You are forgetting that there are whole groups of people who have NO specs in av and who do NOT want to play against a constant stream of tanks and dropships everyday, and these people should have the option to play without those issues popping up. They shouldn't all have to learn AV skills just to get to play the way THEY want to when the field is finally vehicle free, if the field is finally vehicle free, at the end of the match after all of the vehicles are disposed of. This would be especially good for new players who are just starting out and have no idea about the missile splash damage fest they are blindly walking into.
Then THEY can find a theme park game that doesn't have vehicles, THEY can put some SP into adapting to the changing battlefield, or THEY can team up with people that can. |
Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 07:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cortez The Killer wrote:Overlord Zero wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Vehicles are another players playstyle and therefore totally fine for any match. We shouldn't limit vehicles to certain maps by map based restrictions automatically disallowing them. By all means, have maps that make it unsuitable for Vehicle combat, such as a suburb area with lots of alleys with no place to actually place a tank, or with only a few places that are suitable for them. Places with lot's of shelters to protect from dropships and other air vehicles.
Right now, what you're proposing is just bad imo. They can play all they want on the maps, in the Vehicle only mode. Which is what the regular mode we play now is turning into. As for sections of the map vehicles can't get to? In all of Dust right now there is less than 20 square meters that is entirely protected from any and all damage than can be dealt by some vehicles weapons. Yes, there are those who Want to use vehicles and have specced into them. You are forgetting that there are whole groups of people who have NO specs in av and who do NOT want to play against a constant stream of tanks and dropships everyday, and these people should have the option to play without those issues popping up. They shouldn't all have to learn AV skills just to get to play the way THEY want to when the field is finally vehicle free, if the field is finally vehicle free, at the end of the match after all of the vehicles are disposed of. This would be especially good for new players who are just starting out and have no idea about the missile splash damage fest they are blindly walking into. Then THEY can find a theme park game that doesn't have vehicles, THEY can put some SP into adapting to the changing battlefield, or THEY can team up with people that can. Vehicle people would not be left out by having infantry only maps. Infantry are being left out now by being one of only a handful of infantry in vehicle only maps. Being general here, but it's not far from the truth. Vehicle spamming has a restricted peoples ability to play a game the way a FPS is played normally. This is advertised as an FPSMMO, so there should be a mode for infantry FPS only. Simple as that. I'd be fine with inside of space stations or in mines or such, but what you are saying is basically "screw the FPS crowd, we vehicle people should have free reign and the FPS people can deal with it". How is that supposed to appeal to mass audiences? |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
190
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 14:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
[/quote] Vehicle people would not be left out by having infantry only maps. Infantry are being left out now by being one of only a handful of infantry in vehicle only maps. Being general here, but it's not far from the truth. Vehicle spamming has a restricted peoples ability to play a game the way a FPS is played normally. This is advertised as an FPSMMO, so there should be a mode for infantry FPS only. Simple as that. I'd be fine with inside of space stations or in mines or such, but what you are saying is basically "screw the FPS crowd, we vehicle people should have free reign and the FPS people can deal with it". How is that supposed to appeal to mass audiences? [/quote]
This isn't a "normal" FPS and people need to get past that at some point. It is centered around planetary conquest, seizing and controlling real estate. What benefit does it give the game to build in an infantry only romper room? So that mercs loiter in there rather than be out conquering planets where vehicles are?
As mentioned before, there is an existing mechanic for people to do corporate challenges and agree to go without vehicles. The system ain't broke. Fixing it with the Infantry Romper Room doesn't help the overall game, it isolates players that need to have their boots on in a war somewhere. It isn't about screwing the infantryman, it's about the infantryman strapping on his boots without crying, and improvising to win a battle.
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Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 16:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
I created another thread kinda linked to this infantry map demand i see quite often => War Barge fights. Would love some thoughts : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44285&find=unread |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 16:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
RO1MO69 wrote:I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry.
The result of this would mean no infantry players would ever queue for maps where there are vehicles. Vehicle maps would be nothing but vehicles with a couple newbies who accidentally joined the game mode, although their queue times would be so lengthy due to hardly anyone trying to play those maps that chances are you'd never even get a vehicle game going.
This is a terrible solution to the issue of vehicle balance. |
Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 15:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:RO1MO69 wrote:I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry. The result of this would mean no infantry players would ever queue for maps where there are vehicles. Vehicle maps would be nothing but vehicles with a couple newbies who accidentally joined the game mode, although their queue times would be so lengthy due to hardly anyone trying to play those maps that chances are you'd never even get a vehicle game going. This is a terrible solution to the issue of vehicle balance. Not true, contracts won't be affected by this at all unless it occurs in an area where vehicles are not useful, not to mention there are plenty of people who enjoy the challenge of taking out vehicles. Making a game mode for infantry only would just give people the chance to play on even ground with other players who don't spec into vehicles or AV.
Playing in this mode would also not allow you the ISK, WP and SP bonuses people get for taking out vehicles, not to mention the additional challenge, so there is still plenty of reason for people to want to play against vehicles. I personally would like the mode for when I end up in 5+ matches in a row with nothing but dropships and tanks either on the other team spamming missiles at us or on my own team stealing all of my kills.
When people are abusing vehicles to the point that they are almost an exploit, I'd like the option to get away from it. People are able to exploit unbalanced missile damage (based on gameplay balance, not realism), and I should be able to play in a way in which these exploiters aren't affecting my scores. Just because YOU think we should all just have to deal with it doesn't make it right. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 16:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
Giving players the option to turn off vehicles will, in that mode, negate ALL the value of someone who's skilled into vehicle operation. I can understand someone who doesn't like tanks thinking that's ok.
Problem is, it ALSO negates the value of anyone who's invested all their skillpoints into AV infantry skills.
I've focused pretty heavily on making my character good at AV operations. I've spent a lot more SP on anti-vehicle skills than I have on anti-infantry effectiveness.
You want a mode where ALL vehicles AND about half the infantry in the game are basically removed from play.
No thanks. |
Joey-Number1
Maniacal Miners INC The Omega Industries
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 16:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Chalybeia Aquila wrote:No they wont do this but there will be maps with huge downsides for tankers etc. why do you think that?
They might do that, but yeah they might aswell do the maps that are not that suitable for HAVs or other vehicles... Tight spaces, urban enviroments, buildings, corridors... and so on. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 17:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:RO1MO69 wrote:I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry. The result of this would mean no infantry players would ever queue for maps where there are vehicles. Vehicle maps would be nothing but vehicles with a couple newbies who accidentally joined the game mode, although their queue times would be so lengthy due to hardly anyone trying to play those maps that chances are you'd never even get a vehicle game going. This is a terrible solution to the issue of vehicle balance.
So what if that's what infantry mercs will do?? Let the vehicle soldiers fight with those who want vehicles and let the infantry fight against infantry if they like.
Are people that afraid to actually shoot people in a "first person shooter". Omg, the horror!
Some infantry will still queue for vehicle maps but it will give those a break who haven't speced into anti-vehicle or vehcile maps yet. Many people don't wish to play a TDM and get sexed by two guys in a dropship raining down fire on the battlefield with no escape and broken counters.
Jeez, these vehicles have shield extenders, resisters, amplifiers, boosters, etc...all sorts of crap to protect themselves. All infantry are allowed is a shield extender and minute counters that you have to change your entire loadout to use because they will be useless against other infantry and snipers. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 17:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Giving players the option to turn off vehicles will, in that mode, negate ALL the value of someone who's skilled into vehicle operation. I can understand someone who doesn't like tanks thinking that's ok.
Problem is, it ALSO negates the value of anyone who's invested all their skillpoints into AV infantry skills.
I've focused pretty heavily on making my character good at AV operations. I've spent a lot more SP on anti-vehicle skills than I have on anti-infantry effectiveness.
You want a mode where ALL vehicles AND about half the infantry in the game are basically removed from play.
No thanks.
Jesus Christ...it's an additional mode. He's not saying remove more vehicle maps. He's requesting to ADD an additional mode. Which means.....MORE than less.
Players like yourself who specced into vehicle and anti-vehicle will still queue for vehicle maps. And players, especially, new players who haven't will queue for infantry. Why are you guys being close-minded?
This worked in BF3 and it has worked in MAG. Some people queue for Metro, others queue for Caspian Border. Some people play Sabotage, others play Domination. There is something for everyone.
+1 to the OP |
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