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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.10 18:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Jesus Christ...it's an additional mode. He's not saying remove more vehicle maps. He's requesting to ADD an additional mode. Which means.....MORE than less.
Players like yourself who specced into vehicle and anti-vehicle will still queue for vehicle maps. And players, especially, new players who haven't will queue for infantry. Why are you guys being close-minded?
This worked in BF3 and it has worked in MAG. Some people queue for Metro, others queue for Caspian Border. Some people play Sabotage, others play Domination. There is something for everyone.
+1 to the OP
For a mode where there's a fight inside a War Barge, or the possibility to fight inside the MCCs and take them down that way, there would be environments that don't allow vehicles within the battlefield - but that WOULDN'T mean the entire battle is fought without vehicles.
For urban maps, there would be areas that are far more infantry-friendly and far less suitable to bring vehicles into.
There are plenty of ways to limit vehicle use within certain areas of the battlefield, and plenty of ways to encourage new players to use the provided infinite-use Starter Fits until they get the hang of things so their deaths don't matter as much while they learn the ropes.
I don't see the value in a mode which removes core elements of the game.
The point I'm making is that something like the OP is suggesting would encourage new players NOT to learn, and to just stick to the no-vehicles mode if they don't care to play the full game. With the way New Eden is structured, there's no rational incentive for non-vehicle battles outside of a possible arena type setting. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
But even if you have a section on a map where vehicles won't be able to go.....infantry will stay there while vehicles will just drive around watching paint dry.
This is a really viable idea and it's proven that it works because it is like that in other games. This game is a vehicle styled game and not a shooter. I'm exaggerating, of course....but most of the games are decided by Vipers, Prometheus', Gunnlogis, etc. All of the vehicles are relatively difficult to take down, requiring more than one or two people at a time. Although, I don't like it...I'm fine with it. But adding infantry only modes or maps will be great.
If anything, CCP can reward the vehicle maps with more ISK than infantry maps. Then that might enourage players to play on those maps if they choose to. But when they feel like just shooting someone, then they should have the option to do so.
Ambush, TDM should definitely be without vehicles.....if that's the only change then that would suffice. Leave all other maps and modes the same but change ambush modes to infantry only modes. I have never seen a fps where you can just roll a tank and obliterate the entire opposition. In BF3, there is one tank allowed for squad death match and it's the dumbest thing in the world. |
Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
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Posted - 2012.11.12 06:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Jesus Christ...it's an additional mode. He's not saying remove more vehicle maps. He's requesting to ADD an additional mode. Which means.....MORE than less.
Players like yourself who specced into vehicle and anti-vehicle will still queue for vehicle maps. And players, especially, new players who haven't will queue for infantry. Why are you guys being close-minded?
This worked in BF3 and it has worked in MAG. Some people queue for Metro, others queue for Caspian Border. Some people play Sabotage, others play Domination. There is something for everyone.
+1 to the OP For a mode where there's a fight inside a War Barge, or the possibility to fight inside the MCCs and take them down that way, there would be environments that don't allow vehicles within the battlefield - but that WOULDN'T mean the entire battle is fought without vehicles. For urban maps, there would be areas that are far more infantry-friendly and far less suitable to bring vehicles into. There are plenty of ways to limit vehicle use within certain areas of the battlefield, and plenty of ways to encourage new players to use the provided infinite-use Starter Fits until they get the hang of things so their deaths don't matter as much while they learn the ropes. I don't see the value in a mode which removes core elements of the game. The point I'm making is that something like the OP is suggesting would encourage new players NOT to learn, and to just stick to the no-vehicles mode if they don't care to play the full game. With the way New Eden is structured, there's no rational incentive for non-vehicle battles outside of a possible arena type setting. FPSMMO. Core elements being OP vehicles. Yeah..... since when is letting noobs who would normally get spanked heavily by more experienced players get utterly thrashed by insanely unbalanced vehicles a core mechanic?
Maps like Communications on ambush are already built the way you describe.... but they don't stop those tanks from raining small and large missile turret barrages on every surface in sight in sight to 1 & 2 shot everyone with splash damage over at least 90% of the map, not to mention dropships flying overhead can still rain death on 99% of the map. Ashland is similar for dropships because of the high cranes and such, but it doesn't stop the dropships from just looping the outside of the map and blasting OHK missiles over the whole area. It would be the same for any map you make unless you just make it impossible for the vehicles to get there. There will always be a way for this to happen no matter how the map is designed unless they do some serious work on the missile turret issue. |
Valmar Shadereaver
Lost-Legion
18
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Posted - 2012.11.12 12:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
in order to suit most player's you can just get a planet inviorment wich make it inposible for air flight but stil posible for ground vechical's and the other way around in order to decrease vechical spam in the map and adding a few tunel system's and other usefull hidingplace's from the said vechical's they still will be able to use it but the infentry wont wake up on planet just to die 0.1sec later wich will make it far more playable then some of the curent map's where you dont even see your death cause your clone just activate's and died from a random shot in a spawn area |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
110
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Posted - 2012.11.12 14:52:00 -
[65] - Quote
"Operation Metro from BF3 is one of the best examples of this type of map IMHO."
this is why we can't have nice things.
that's not even a bf map.
but you nerds don't know that, because you were breast fed on cod and garbage game play.
infantry only maps?
same morons from suppression in mag who couldn't actually hang in mag are now on dust, not hanging and asking for suppression to be brought over here so they have something to do besides soak up bullets.
you nerds. you make lols.
Peace B |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 15:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
Overlord Zero wrote:FPSMMO. Core elements being OP vehicles. Yeah..... since when is letting noobs who would normally get spanked heavily by more experienced players get utterly thrashed by insanely unbalanced vehicles a core mechanic?
Maps like Communications on ambush are already built the way you describe.... but they don't stop those tanks from raining small and large missile turret barrages on every surface in sight in sight to 1 & 2 shot everyone with splash damage over at least 90% of the map, not to mention dropships flying overhead can still rain death on 99% of the map. Ashland is similar for dropships because of the high cranes and such, but it doesn't stop the dropships from just looping the outside of the map and blasting OHK missiles over the whole area. It would be the same for any map you make unless you just make it impossible for the vehicles to get there. There will always be a way for this to happen no matter how the map is designed unless they do some serious work on the missile turret issue. The problem you're describing is with the OP missile turrets NOT with the vehicles themselves being OP.
And the maps you're using as examples DON'T have more than a small area within the map which restricts vehicle movement, and those areas which do cause problems can be overwatched by vehicles from outside the area with minimal risk. With ACTUAL infantry-friendly areas on the maps, you'd have plenty of buildings tall enough to break line-of-sight completely, forcing enemy vehicles to COME TO YOU and expose themselves at close range to infantry AV weapons.
And there would be at least some objectives with hack points INDOORS where the tanks can't get at them.
There AREN'T any truly infantry-friendly areas on ANY map in the current cycle. We need an urban environment where you'll really, REALLY need to bring your infantry support for a tank yo be viable in the area.
And we need missile turrets that aren't completely broken against everything except another tank.
But, in spite of me being someone who only very rarely even runs as a gunner for a tank (I'm usually an AV guy), I'm arguing in favour of them being a core element of this game. Because they ARE. |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
190
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Posted - 2012.11.12 16:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44026&find=unread
Here you go, infantry only fights. |
Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
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Posted - 2012.11.12 23:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
Just a side note, any map that is cluttered or close quartered enough to restrict vehicle movement in the way you guys describe will also restrict usability of swarms and open space for forge guns to charge up and clear skies through which they can fire, thereby also restricting the viability of at least 2 of our current AV abilities. Just throwing that out there. |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2012.11.12 23:50:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ops Fox wrote:would love for maps to be more rugged so tanks and LAV would have to focus on not running off cliffs or getting stuck in canyons, and more interior space would be great for more infantry combat.
make large external like lifts, drawbridges and gates so tanks have to get out of have infantry support to use these this is a good idea edit: busted out laughing didnGÇÖt realize i was quoting myself, oh god, ignore this, ROLF.
um yeah obviously i agree with my self but god cant believe i quoted my self accidentally lol |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2012.11.12 23:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
Overlord Zero wrote:Just a side note, any map that is cluttered or close quartered enough to restrict vehicle movement in the way you guys describe will also restrict usability of swarms and open space for forge guns to charge up and clear skies through which they can fire, thereby also restricting the viability of at least 2 of our current AV abilities. Just throwing that out there.
Av nades still work |
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Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
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Posted - 2012.11.13 01:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ops Fox wrote:Overlord Zero wrote:Just a side note, any map that is cluttered or close quartered enough to restrict vehicle movement in the way you guys describe will also restrict usability of swarms and open space for forge guns to charge up and clear skies through which they can fire, thereby also restricting the viability of at least 2 of our current AV abilities. Just throwing that out there. Av nades still work Because AV nades totally rock against maxed out dropships and tanks. |
HECATONCHIRES COTTUS
Doomheim
14
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Posted - 2012.11.13 02:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry.
Topic.
Some of the post are of things for infantry to get behind,underneath(cover)impassable terrain.But a completely inclosed infantry only map say in a building is gonna be a no go......even if you go beast mode then whats the point in such a map that makes it impossible to OS people?Warfare is 3 dimensional not Linear.
EDIT:2 builds ago they tried this with the optionn on the battle finder to pick which game mode you want to join I seem to remember at any giving time there only being a handfull of people to play ambush.There would be maybe 30 guys playing ambush and 300 in Scirmish and that was when we only had 1 scirmish map(plateaus).Sorry man I dont see this happening. |
Valmar Shadereaver
Lost-Legion
18
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Posted - 2012.11.13 02:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
HECATONCHIRES COTTUS wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:I want besides the Skirmish/Ambush REGULAR maps an OPTIONAL skirmish/Ambush maps option where there are no vehicles. Those wanting vehicles/infantry can go play the regular maps.
I want an OPTION to chose skirmish/ambush maps with NO VEHICLES just infantry.
Topic. Some of the post are of things for infantry to get behind,underneath(cover)impassable terrain.But a completely inclosed infantry only map say in a building is gonna be a no go......even if you go beast mode then whats the point in such a map that makes it impossible to OS people?Warfare is 3 dimensional not Linear.
wat if your fighting in a district and non of your eve player's(warbarge) have the time to send in orbital strike note because they are geting wasted are you going to wait and pray for it to sudenly drop outof the air whitout anything firing the voly's? players are going to be able to take out orbital strike posibilety bye attacking the fleet of ship's above the district so they can asist the ground troop's so some map's whit alot of building's wont necesarily be a bad thing |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 12:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:But even if you have a section on a map where vehicles won't be able to go.....infantry will stay there while vehicles will just drive around watching paint dry.
This is a really viable idea and it's proven that it works because it is like that in other games. This game is a vehicle styled game and not a shooter. I'm exaggerating, of course....but most of the games are decided by Vipers, Prometheus', Gunnlogis, etc. All of the vehicles are relatively difficult to take down, requiring more than one or two people at a time. Although, I don't like it...I'm fine with it. But adding infantry only modes or maps will be great.
If anything, CCP can reward the vehicle maps with more ISK than infantry maps. Then that might enourage players to play on those maps if they choose to. But when they feel like just shooting someone, then they should have the option to do so.
Ambush, TDM should definitely be without vehicles.....if that's the only change then that would suffice. Leave all other maps and modes the same but change ambush modes to infantry only modes. I have never seen a fps where you can just roll a tank and obliterate the entire opposition. In BF3, there is one tank allowed for squad death match and it's the dumbest thing in the world.
Agreed. Also what prompted this thread was in IMOHO a need for more choices in what type of playstyle one can choose. Choice is key and variety of playstyle is good in any game. The game needs to be shooter first then focus on vehicles. And for that we need more map choices and playstyle variety. |
IPA Maximus
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.11.14 16:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
High powered vehicles should be limited to corp v corp matches (similiar to global agenda). Low lvl and unorganized players vs high lvl groups are already at a huge disadvantage, throw in vehicles and it's just silly.
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BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
110
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 14:24:00 -
[76] - Quote
"High powered vehicles should be limited to corp v corp matches "
first the vehicles then the number of players then the guns
you guys are sissies.
go buy your own vehicles, quit trying to hobble the clans just cuz you have no friends and no clan.
sissies.
Peace B |
BMSTUBBYx
Doomheim
83
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 17:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
This will just split the already small player base.
Maybe when released this can become an option, maybe. If CCP can keep a large enough player base for this game.
Doing this now will just create a Bumper tanks game mode, lol.
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
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Posted - 2012.11.16 20:30:00 -
[78] - Quote
What CCP said: you can play the game any way you want. What CCP: delivered: I am FORCED to do AV since there are vehicles on all maps. I am FORCED to play the game a certain way due to vehicles being present. I am FORCED to carry AV nades in every fit due to vehicles on every map.
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843 pano
843 Boot Camp
200
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Posted - 2012.11.16 23:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
Looks like you got your way seeing Wang said infantry specific maps are in the works.
Maybe if I cry this hard, they'll make sans proto infantry maps for all us vehicle specific players, so we're not over powered by proto infantry gear when we play infantry. But, then again, I'm man enough to roll with what I chose to skill into and deal with it....
Try skilling all into vehicles then go on foot... see who's OP then. I can't even tell you how many times I've been schooled by a TAC, GEK or DUV AR with my low level infantry suits/gear, but you don't see me crying tears of OP. I deal with what I skilled into.
It's apparent, cry baby's get their own warm bottle of milk and blankie from CCP, tucked safely into their own little padded crib.
have fun in your COD/Brink/BF3 tunnel clone maps, I'll be out in the big, bad, scary, unbalanced maps playing...
BTW, what ever happend to having a vehicle specific person on your team to call in the heavy hardware to deal with vehicles on field? It's the single best way to deal with enemy vehicles in game. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 06:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
After a little bit of recent experimentation, I've found another REALLY good AV solution...
Laser Rifle + Swarm Launcher.
Seriously, try it out.
Back on-topic though, people are crying that the current maps are all vehicle-specific? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
You spawn in - in almost every case - ON FOOT, not already in a vehicle. You have the option, while in a vehicle, of GETTING OUT - at which point, you're no longer in a vehicle.
There ARE Snipers, there ARE infantry, and there ARE uses for infantry. While it's important to have SOMEONE in your team who's specced into AV or vehicles, it's ALSO important NOT to have EVERYONE specced into those things at the cost of other aspects.
I've seen tank-heavy teams lose horribly in Skirmish games because THEY HAD NO GOOD INFANTRY. Everyone on their team was in a tank, or running AV weapons. We had maybe 2 LAVs get called in during the match, and nobody got into them before they died. Wasn't a problem, because we had guys with ARs and Sniper Rifles and Shotguns, and all we had to do is keep our distance from the tanks and slaughter anyone who approached the objectives.
You don't win the game when you don't hold the objective, and you can't capture the objective without hopping out of your tank. Good luck doing that when there are 2 Shotguns lined up on you by the time you've found your hack point. |
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