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Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:06:00 - [1] - Quote Seems a little OP imo, the Forge Gun can hit me across the map, I feel it needs to be tweaked slightly. I don't mind the massive damage it does to vehicles if the range is decreased, or decrease the damage and keep the range, one of them needs to change. And before someone posts "NOO FORGE GUN SNIPING IS A SKILL AND IT'S HARD" Doesn't seem that way, every match that I fly in there is a forge gunner that usually kills me, and I try to recognize who did it so I avoid flying the next match if they're there, it's different people every time. -DropshipPilotthattriestobeaproperpilotonlytobekilledintwoshotsacrossthemap.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 907	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:13:00 - [2] - Quote The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:15:00 - [3] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. They do need to increase the height, but I still feel swarms are insanely powerful against dropships, it's kind of sad.
4447 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:40:00 - [4] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Seems a little OP imo, the Forge Gun can hit me across the map, I feel it needs to be tweaked slightly. I don't mind the massive damage it does to vehicles if the range is decreased, or decrease the damage and keep the range, one of them needs to change. And before someone posts "NOO FORGE GUN SNIPING IS A SKILL AND IT'S HARD" Doesn't seem that way, every match that I fly in there is a forge gunner that usually kills me, and I try to recognize who did it so I avoid flying the next match if they're there, it's different people every time. -DropshipPilotthattriestobeaproperpilotonlytobekilledintwoshotsacrossthemap. just because your getting killed by them?
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.10.10 22:45:00 - [5] - Quote I thought thats how we did things here? get killed by something and whine it's OP til it's been changed.. Nah, it's just they make dropships very flimsy, and theres no point in actually transporting people because I'll slow down to drop people off and BAM, dead dropship from a cheap forgegun. It's unbalanced is what I'm saying and we need to take a look at it, the lack of love for Dropships is depressing.
4447 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2012.10.10 23:15:00 - [6] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: I thought thats how we did things here? get killed by something and whine it's OP til it's been changed.. Nah, it's just they make dropships very flimsy, and theres no point in actually transporting people because I'll slow down to drop people off and BAM, dead dropship from a cheap forgegun. It's unbalanced is what I'm saying and we need to take a look at it, the lack of love for Dropships is depressing. Why slow down for? Tell them to jump out when your near the drop off.
Keradil Ledeuxieme Doomheim 24	Posted - 2012.10.11 03:07:00 - [7] - Quote 4447 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I thought thats how we did things here? get killed by something and whine it's OP til it's been changed.. Nah, it's just they make dropships very flimsy, and theres no point in actually transporting people because I'll slow down to drop people off and BAM, dead dropship from a cheap forgegun. It's unbalanced is what I'm saying and we need to take a look at it, the lack of love for Dropships is depressing. Why slow down for? Tell them to jump out when your near the drop off. This. Also, hitting things with a forge gun is really difficult sometimes. Granted, if you try to hover in a dropship, we will knock you down.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.10.11 05:48:00 - [8] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved.
Mister Hunt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2012.10.11 12:15:00 - [9] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved. How about we just make dropships invulnerable? That is what you want in the end, right? You died to good forge gun users (I have seen dropship guys **** this build because the forge guys weren't good forge guys, and you can outrun swarms), so something must be broken?
Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.10.11 15:11:00 - [10] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved. How about we just make dropships invulnerable? That is what you want in the end, right? You died to good forge gun users (I have seen dropship guys **** this build because the forge guys weren't good forge guys, and you can outrun swarms), so something must be broken? Forge guns are very destructive. I do think there range is a little to far currently myself. And after you add range proficency you able to cover the whole map from the middle. and some maps you can shoot all the way accross. They do not need a huge range nerf but droping 50m off will fix things for sure. Ceiling needs to be fixed I think most people agree on this here. Swarms need to be fixed because currently there are 2 problems 1. They follow dropships path. Swarms are fast but dropships are faster. As it should be. Swarms need to take a direct path to dropships not follow the flight path of them. This will fix most problems I think 2. Swarms still hit 2 hard. Drop ships pilots have to keep moving at all times. if you stop and swarms hit you they basically throw you where they want to. And means CCP thought it was a bright idea to make flight controls more sluggish this build for noobs it is impossible to correct yourself once swarms send you flying toward a building or the ground. Forge guns are uber effective against dropships Really forge guns are effective against everything you can use them on infantry and vehicles. with out any trouble. And your able to hit objects across the map once your proficiency are in place. Even I as a dropship pilot wants a good AV to work fair. I go in depth on alot of this stuff in my thread that is somewhere within the next 5 pages lol. But should I not as a very good dropship pilot have a chance to survive full games based on my skills on flying. If forges did not work so well against infantry I would agree to keep them at the why they are but they are good at everything and range makes them beastly at alot of things. They have no true draw back.

Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.10.11 19:58:00 - [11] - Quote Forge could loose 5% or 7% accuracy but dropships need a boost in HP that would fix mos problems
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.10.11 21:13:00 - [12] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved. How about we just make dropships invulnerable? That is what you want in the end, right? You died to good forge gun users (I have seen dropship guys **** this build because the forge guys weren't good forge guys, and you can outrun swarms), so something must be broken? Reread what I posted before making yourself look like an idiot. Never said I wanted them to be invulnerable. If swarms were fixed they would be far from it. Too bad, so many whiners like you got this game nerfed down to easy mode for EVERYTHING.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.11 21:32:00 - [13] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Mister Hunt wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved. How about we just make dropships invulnerable? That is what you want in the end, right? You died to good forge gun users (I have seen dropship guys ** this build because the forge guys weren't good forge guys, and you can outrun swarms), so something must be broken? Reread what I posted before making yourself look like an idiot. Never said I wanted them to be invulnerable. If swarms were fixed they would be far from it. Too bad, so many whiners like you got this game nerfed down to easy mode for EVERYTHING. ^full of ** post^
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.10.11 23:19:00 - [14] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Mister Hunt wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved. How about we just make dropships invulnerable? That is what you want in the end, right? You died to good forge gun users (I have seen dropship guys ** this build because the forge guys weren't good forge guys, and you can outrun swarms), so something must be broken? Reread what I posted before making yourself look like an idiot. Never said I wanted them to be invulnerable. If swarms were fixed they would be far from it. Too bad, so many whiners like you got this game nerfed down to easy mode for EVERYTHING. ^full of ** post^ How so? Troll somewhere else. Ever wonder why you dont see ANY tanks anymore? They die super easy.
Patches The Hyena Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 24	Posted - 2012.10.11 23:39:00 - [15] - Quote I've had to put tons of SP into my Forge Gun to get it shooting hard and far. Am I really getting too much reward for my work? Forge gun range to me seems pretty fair, countless times I line up a shot and stand in the open charging up just to realize I can't shoot that far. As far as dropships vs forge guns. If I hit a dropship its the pilot's fault. Any half decent pilot can keep from getting hit by an FG. It's a direct fire weapon that takes a couple seconds to charge before firing. If you keep moving and use terrain/buildings as cover I'll never kill you. Now Dropships definitely need love and I'm pissed CCP didn't do anything to help dropships with this build. The list of problems the DS suffers from are long and it needs a lot of attention but the solution isn't to nerf AV again. We already went through this before. Instead of nerfing the FG that needs to stay in balance with 3 vehicle types buff the dropship which is the vehicle thats out of balance.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.11 23:59:00 - [16] - Quote It's a railgun that means it should have the same range as your tank's rails considering the damage
Raven Tesio Liandri Hel-Jumpers Liandri Covenant 35	Posted - 2012.10.12 01:18:00 - [17] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. They do need to increase the height, but I still feel swarms are insanely powerful against dropships, it's kind of sad. You can outrun the Missiles due to the Dropship speed, provided you see them coming. You can NOT outrun a Forge Gun. I do agree that the ceiling height would be a bit better if it was higher. Still would be nice if there was a flight combat vehicle (i.e. Jet / Fighter) so air-combat past the ******** Drop vs Drop was possible. On the whole the Forge Gun only pisses me off when it comes to someone shooting you when you're not in a vehicle as it's literally an instant kill, rather than a "where the heck did that come from" few seconds while you frantically throw on the shield/armour repper. I'm not against them hitting people, but like in EVE; the Forge Gun is effectively a Vehicle Turret (i.e. Battleship Weapon) while you're a Marine (a Frigate) ... so signature radius should definately play a MUCH larger role in getting hit vs Large Weaponry.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.12 01:22:00 - [18] - Quote Raven Tesio wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. They do need to increase the height, but I still feel swarms are insanely powerful against dropships, it's kind of sad. You can outrun the Missiles due to the Dropship speed, provided you see them coming. You can NOT outrun a Forge Gun. I do agree that the ceiling height would be a bit better if it was higher. Still would be nice if there was a flight combat vehicle (i.e. Jet / Fighter) so air-combat past the ******** Drop vs Drop was possible. On the whole the Forge Gun only pisses me off when it comes to someone shooting you when you're not in a vehicle as it's literally an instant kill, rather than a "where the heck did that come from" few seconds while you frantically throw on the shield/armour repper. I'm not against them hitting people, but like in EVE; the Forge Gun is effectively a Vehicle Turret (i.e. Battleship Weapon) while you're a Marine (a Frigate) ... so signature radius should definately play a MUCH larger role in getting hit vs Large Weaponry. Weapons don't increase sig radius, only shield mods
Lead Squall Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 54	Posted - 2012.10.12 01:40:00 - [19] - Quote another idea would be to add some spread to the shots. If you make the forge gun slightly less precise, you would have a similar effect, but if wouldn't effectively be a heavy sniper rifle that takes out nearly everything.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.12 01:42:00 - [20] - Quote Lead Squall wrote: another idea would be to add some spread to the shots. If you make the forge gun slightly less precise, you would have a similar effect, but if wouldn't effectively be a heavy sniper rifle that takes out nearly everything. Railgun, nuff said

Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.10.12 07:02:00 - [21] - Quote I've crusaded for the Forge before, and now I am being called to its defense again... The Forge is inaccurate. With the quake during charge, any kind of long range shot is a pure crapshoot. In fact, against all logic, it isn't even hitscan. You have to lead a shot that supposedly moves in excess of 6k meters per second. Plus, it is useless as an Anti-Personnel weapon. The Forge is slow. Charging requires you to commit to a slow pace, and an inability to adjust for moving targets getting behind cover. It takes six seconds for the Breach to charge, and those six seconds render you immobile. It takes three for the standard, which you can hold, and 2.5 for the Assault, which must be fired at the moment of charge. (I may need to get these numbers again, I was a FG user back in E3 build before they were nerfed.) The Forge is weak, to an extent. The normal variant can't even oneshot an LAV without some serious damage mods. Its DPS (if my numbers are right) is 400 per second. If you fire at the moment it charges and the shot always hits, which it has a 40% chance to not do anyway. 350 dps for the breach variant. The Forge is expensive. ALL Heavy only equipment is twice as expensive as any comparable lightweight device. The Forge must be manually aimed. It isn't lock and forget like its lightweight counterpart. It has an accuracy rating of 60%. Almost half the time, no matter how good a shot you are, that sumkitten will veer wide. The Forge requires a heavy suit. A heavy without something to scare off infantry at medium range is an expensive prize turkey for any enterprising Assault Suit. The Forge is meant for AV combat. It IS the face of intelligent AV that isn't a vehicle. It has zero application in man-to-man ground fights. The Forge is a modified mining laser. That is badass.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.10.12 14:07:00 - [22] - Quote Forge works just fine on infantry....a 254 Dmg AOE is pretty beast....meaning splash dmg from a forge is a charge sniper shot...Swarms are useless in this build...they can't hit dropships and with all the random hills and buildings they have a really rough time in the current maps....plus they are weak...proto swarms only do 1800 dmg...that is if all 6 missles hit too.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.10.12 14:54:00 - [23] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: I've crusaded for the Forge before, and now I am being called to its defense again... The Forge is inaccurate. With the quake during charge, any kind of long range shot is a pure crapshoot. In fact, against all logic, it isn't even hitscan. You have to lead a shot that supposedly moves in excess of 6k meters per second. Plus, it is useless as an Anti-Personnel weapon. The Forge is slow. Charging requires you to commit to a slow pace, and an inability to adjust for moving targets getting behind cover. It takes six seconds for the Breach to charge, and those six seconds render you immobile. It takes three for the standard, which you can hold, and 2.5 for the Assault, which must be fired at the moment of charge. (I may need to get these numbers again, I was a FG user back in E3 build before they were nerfed.) The Forge is weak, to an extent. The normal variant can't even oneshot an LAV without some serious damage mods. Its DPS (if my numbers are right) is 400 per second. If you fire at the moment it charges and the shot always hits, which it has a 40% chance to not do anyway. 350 dps for the breach variant. The Forge is expensive. ALL Heavy only equipment is twice as expensive as any comparable lightweight device. The Forge must be manually aimed. It isn't lock and forget like its lightweight counterpart. It has an accuracy rating of 60%. Almost half the time, no matter how good a shot you are, that sumkitten will veer wide. The Forge requires a heavy suit. A heavy without something to scare off infantry at medium range is an expensive prize turkey for any enterprising Assault Suit. The Forge is meant for AV combat. It IS the face of intelligent AV that isn't a vehicle. It has zero application in man-to-man ground fights. The Forge is a modified mining laser. That is badass. The Forge is weak? Tell that to my nearly 4k ehp Myron that just got killed in two hits, the Forge is not weak. It may have a slow charge rate but there is no escaping it. I've been hit 3 times repeatedly once, the first two sent every to 0, as I flew towards the ground the final one hit me, blowing me up. So things don't seem to add up, I can fly around fast and I still get hit by it. Tell me, you say the Forge Gun is expensive, but should it really have the ability to knock out something that costs 300k ISK so fast? It's just a shame is all. Which seriously need the ceiling sorted but these Forge Guns totally decimate any Dropship right now
Patches The Hyena Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 24	Posted - 2012.10.12 19:16:00 - [24] - Quote As I said forge guns aren't the issue, dropships are. CCP has ignored the plight of the dropship pilot for a long time and its showing. The DS got a huge nerf alongside tanks and its ceiling has been lowered so it can't even evade properly. The dropships need rebalanced but don't lobby for more nerfs as the solution. Buffing the dropship is what's needed
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.10.12 20:29:00 - [25] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I've crusaded for the Forge before, and now I am being called to its defense again... The Forge is inaccurate. With the quake during charge, any kind of long range shot is a pure crapshoot. In fact, against all logic, it isn't even hitscan. You have to lead a shot that supposedly moves in excess of 6k meters per second. Plus, it is useless as an Anti-Personnel weapon. The Forge is slow. Charging requires you to commit to a slow pace, and an inability to adjust for moving targets getting behind cover. It takes six seconds for the Breach to charge, and those six seconds render you immobile. It takes three for the standard, which you can hold, and 2.5 for the Assault, which must be fired at the moment of charge. (I may need to get these numbers again, I was a FG user back in E3 build before they were nerfed.) The Forge is weak, to an extent. The normal variant can't even oneshot an LAV without some serious damage mods. Its DPS (if my numbers are right) is 400 per second. If you fire at the moment it charges and the shot always hits, which it has a 40% chance to not do anyway. 350 dps for the breach variant. The Forge is expensive. ALL Heavy only equipment is twice as expensive as any comparable lightweight device. The Forge must be manually aimed. It isn't lock and forget like its lightweight counterpart. It has an accuracy rating of 60%. Almost half the time, no matter how good a shot you are, that sumkitten will veer wide. The Forge requires a heavy suit. A heavy without something to scare off infantry at medium range is an expensive prize turkey for any enterprising Assault Suit. The Forge is meant for AV combat. It IS the face of intelligent AV that isn't a vehicle. It has zero application in man-to-man ground fights. The Forge is a modified mining laser. That is badass. The Forge is weak? Tell that to my nearly 4k ehp Myron that just got killed in two hits, the Forge is not weak. It may have a slow charge rate but there is no escaping it. I've been hit 3 times repeatedly once, the first two sent every to 0, as I flew towards the ground the final one hit me, blowing me up. So things don't seem to add up, I can fly around fast and I still get hit by it. Tell me, you say the Forge Gun is expensive, but should it really have the ability to knock out something that costs 300k ISK so fast? It's just a shame is all. Which seriously need the ceiling sorted but these Forge Guns totally decimate any Dropship right now What do you do if you are getting sniped? Get behind cover. What do you do if you are getting chased by Swarms? Get behind cover. What do you do if you are hit by a Forge blast? You have an average of 3.5 seconds to get behind cover.
Tailss Prower Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 26	Posted - 2012.10.12 23:04:00 - [26] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I've crusaded for the Forge before, and now I am being called to its defense again... The Forge is inaccurate. With the quake during charge, any kind of long range shot is a pure crapshoot. In fact, against all logic, it isn't even hitscan. You have to lead a shot that supposedly moves in excess of 6k meters per second. Plus, it is useless as an Anti-Personnel weapon. The Forge is slow. Charging requires you to commit to a slow pace, and an inability to adjust for moving targets getting behind cover. It takes six seconds for the Breach to charge, and those six seconds render you immobile. It takes three for the standard, which you can hold, and 2.5 for the Assault, which must be fired at the moment of charge. (I may need to get these numbers again, I was a FG user back in E3 build before they were nerfed.) The Forge is weak, to an extent. The normal variant can't even oneshot an LAV without some serious damage mods. Its DPS (if my numbers are right) is 400 per second. If you fire at the moment it charges and the shot always hits, which it has a 40% chance to not do anyway. 350 dps for the breach variant. The Forge is expensive. ALL Heavy only equipment is twice as expensive as any comparable lightweight device. The Forge must be manually aimed. It isn't lock and forget like its lightweight counterpart. It has an accuracy rating of 60%. Almost half the time, no matter how good a shot you are, that sumkitten will veer wide. The Forge requires a heavy suit. A heavy without something to scare off infantry at medium range is an expensive prize turkey for any enterprising Assault Suit. The Forge is meant for AV combat. It IS the face of intelligent AV that isn't a vehicle. It has zero application in man-to-man ground fights. The Forge is a modified mining laser. That is badass. The Forge is weak? Tell that to my nearly 4k ehp Myron that just got killed in two hits, the Forge is not weak. It may have a slow charge rate but there is no escaping it. I've been hit 3 times repeatedly once, the first two sent every to 0, as I flew towards the ground the final one hit me, blowing me up. So things don't seem to add up, I can fly around fast and I still get hit by it. Tell me, you say the Forge Gun is expensive, but should it really have the ability to knock out something that costs 300k ISK so fast? It's just a shame is all. Which seriously need the ceiling sorted but these Forge Guns totally decimate any Dropship right now I am with both dropships and forge I think they need a small small dmg taken off seeing how they got more than even the railguns but i'm a dropship pilot with a myron and I'm sorry buddy but I got 2400-2500 in shields and I can take forges easy hell one match last night I had 2 forgers hit me and they both I know through out the battle had like maybe 10 hits EACH and barely got me at the very end of the match so unlike you I agree with what the other guy said a skilled pilot can survive and handle a forge gunner with no problems and dropships still need some love but I can still tear up the battle field with mine :P
Michael Cratar Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2012.11.18 11:08:00 - [27] - Quote The only thing i think the forge needs is a small zoom like the HMG. A small zoom will make my day. As for anti infantry type of forge. a less damage, fast charge, single shot, medium to shortrange gun. Kinda like a mix of a forge and a sniper and a forge.
Valmar Shadereaver Lost-Legion 18	Posted - 2012.11.18 14:29:00 - [28] - Quote ds can basicly fly out of redzone on certain map's so they cant hide you say? they dont do anything but hide after they got hit once more hp for a dropship? its a dropship a troop transport its not and armored gunship designed flying kiling machine wait till gunship arive's before acting like you need even more overpowerd dropship's forge gun to long range? i dont have any skill's in heavy range and i cant even hit dropship's 80% of the time's because they are out of my fireingrange o wait look a misile from the dropship just kild me 0hk wow and my forge bulet only had 30% of the range of the ds turet . . . yes forge guns need nerf they only have alot less range then the turets which you increase the damage for whit all your damage mod's remove those damage mods and good turets and plaster on some extra shield's or armoure's and stop whining you picked less shield for extra damage so its less sturdy then its not the forge's faulth or cpp but your own fiting mistake to begine whit it i agree geting kild bye a forge sucks but it hapens if you see a guy and like wasting your clip or 2 for 1 infantry wel you cuild try shooting i dislike it more that ppl fly in dropship's nonstop and whine when there op ds gets shot bye there own carelessnes bye starting to hover either dont hover or dont take your ds out unless your wiling to lose it and the 2hit dead myron forge gun is prototype forge whit 5 points in profcency and a damage mod making the damage increased bye 25+% so yes a proto can do alot of damage does that mean there are alot of proto forges no there arent most use a normal one whit militia heavy for some av capabilety and theyt uasaly gets kild bye infantry or the 0hk turets
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 320	Posted - 2012.11.18 17:22:00 - [29] - Quote Negative one to OP. Plus one to Kain. Plus 10 to Zero Harpuia Forge guns are a pretty crappy weapon. If you are getting killed by one, you are doing something wrong.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.11.18 17:51:00 - [30] - Quote 1)reduce small missile range, this removes need for low ceiling 2)raise ceiling, this reduces effective forge range since the higher flying dropship has to be closer to hit with current range. Therefore small missiles are the problem with forge gun. Forge gun vs infantry is fine as is, it is not very effective.

Sylwester Dziewiecki Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.11.18 18:45:00 - [31] - Quote Forge gun's are ok. OP, SI has a lot of good pilots, ask someone for advice how to fly.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.18 20:25:00 - [32] - Quote Comparing LARGE railgun to a forge gun which is handheld and as small as the SMALL railgun turrets yet it can do everything better than the large railgun
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.11.19 01:49:00 - [33] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The don't need to decrease the range of the forge gun. They need to buff the flight ceiling of the Dropship. You're trying to fix the wrong thing. Says the forgegun user. They need a range decrease. The heavy suit allows forge users to get up close and survive against tanks and LAV's. Decrease range. Increase ceiling. Fix swarms. Problem solved. LOL what heavy suits have u been using? pretty sure missiles OHK everything and pretty sure a direct hit with a railgun kills in 1 hit (which it should) a heavy doesnt actually get close to a tank at all he will never survive look at all the good heavies, ur friend kain included, they sit up on an elevated spot a distance away and hit u by surprise trying to get a slow ass heavy close to a target to shoot will never work range is fine.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.11.19 02:21:00 - [34] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: I've crusaded for the Forge before, and now I am being called to its defense again... The Forge is inaccurate. With the quake during charge, any kind of long range shot is a pure crapshoot. In fact, against all logic, it isn't even hitscan. You have to lead a shot that supposedly moves in excess of 6k meters per second. Plus, it is useless as an Anti-Personnel weapon. The Forge is slow. Charging requires you to commit to a slow pace, and an inability to adjust for moving targets getting behind cover. It takes six seconds for the Breach to charge, and those six seconds render you immobile. It takes three for the standard, which you can hold, and 2.5 for the Assault, which must be fired at the moment of charge. (I may need to get these numbers again, I was a FG user back in E3 build before they were nerfed.) The Forge is weak, to an extent. The normal variant can't even oneshot an LAV without some serious damage mods. Its DPS (if my numbers are right) is 400 per second. If you fire at the moment it charges and the shot always hits, which it has a 40% chance to not do anyway. 350 dps for the breach variant. The Forge is expensive. ALL Heavy only equipment is twice as expensive as any comparable lightweight device. The Forge must be manually aimed. It isn't lock and forget like its lightweight counterpart. It has an accuracy rating of 60%. Almost half the time, no matter how good a shot you are, that sumkitten will veer wide. The Forge requires a heavy suit. A heavy without something to scare off infantry at medium range is an expensive prize turkey for any enterprising Assault Suit. The Forge is meant for AV combat. It IS the face of intelligent AV that isn't a vehicle. It has zero application in man-to-man ground fights. The Forge is a modified mining laser. That is badass. The Forge is weak? Tell that to my nearly 4k ehp Myron that just got killed in two hits, the Forge is not weak. It may have a slow charge rate but there is no escaping it. I've been hit 3 times repeatedly once, the first two sent every to 0, as I flew towards the ground the final one hit me, blowing me up. So things don't seem to add up, I can fly around fast and I still get hit by it. Tell me, you say the Forge Gun is expensive, but should it really have the ability to knock out something that costs 300k ISK so fast? It's just a shame is all. Which seriously need the ceiling sorted but these Forge Guns totally decimate any Dropship right now Takes one hell of a forge gunner to swat a dropship if your flight path isn't all smooth and predictable. You can just run around in circles to avoid the swarm missiles, shoot from across the map with your side missile turrets to avoid blaster turret and missile turret fire, now you want to nerf the last thing that can knock you down with any degree of reliability because the guys using forge guns finally learned to predict your flight path? C'mon...
Tyrus 4 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2012.11.19 02:34:00 - [35] - Quote nevermind. this thread was necro'd up, didn't realize it.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.11.19 03:27:00 - [36] - Quote A skilled up forgegunner can fire every 1.8 seconds which is plenty of time for three shots if the dropship is flying toward the gunner or simply not moving away at top speed. The same gunner will be able to kill a fully tanked ship in three shots. I've been shot at by beginners with low level guns and by more experience gunners who have popped my ship inside thirty seconds of liftoff. Forge guns take practice and SP but they are extremely effective in the right hands. Unlike swarms my first warning of danger is the loss of over half my shield strength, and I may not get any clue where it came from so I won't know where to head to best evade. A squad with two gunners can command the sky. You don't see that often in pub matches, but it's common in corp battles.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.11.19 03:55:00 - [37] - Quote Skihids, I've had forge gunners succeed at taking me down, and I've listened to the forge gunner in the other room scream in frustration as he misses shot after shot. As a dropship pilot you have to think in 3 dimensions, as well as consider the sight picture you are giving the enemy - hover and you are a sitting duck for everything, fly fast and straight and eventually forge gunners / rail turrets are going to get their lead correct, sudden altitude changes and jukes to the left / right can drive a forge gunner absolutely crazy. You have three axis of movement in a dropship, use all 3 to farther reduce the number of gunners with the skill required to shoot you down. And if your team isn't calling out heavies (especially forge gun using heavies), then assume every red dot is packing a forge, and fly like a crazy bastard (don't forget to give the poor grunts in back some airsickness bags, they'll need em)
xMarauder Doomheim 139	Posted - 2012.11.19 05:49:00 - [38] - Quote Another nerf forge gun thread huh? Damn it, I'm losing faith.....
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.11.19 06:10:00 - [39] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Skihids, I've had forge gunners succeed at taking me down, and I've listened to the forge gunner in the other room scream in frustration as he misses shot after shot. As a dropship pilot you have to think in 3 dimensions, as well as consider the sight picture you are giving the enemy - hover and you are a sitting duck for everything, fly fast and straight and eventually forge gunners / rail turrets are going to get their lead correct, sudden altitude changes and jukes to the left / right can drive a forge gunner absolutely crazy. You have three axis of movement in a dropship, use all 3 to farther reduce the number of gunners with the skill required to shoot you down. And if your team isn't calling out heavies (especially forge gun using heavies), then assume every red dot is packing a forge, and fly like a crazy bastard (don't forget to give the poor grunts in back some airsickness bags, they'll need em) You make a good point, I probably fly at the ceiling too much. On the other hand there are places on the map where you are at your ceiling when close to the ground an you don't have much of an option. I'm probably also flying too predictably due to flying as if I have swarms after me even when I don't. I'll keep that in mind and see how it affects my survivability. Flying too crazy will nerf your own gunners though, so there does have to be ome compromise.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 41	Posted - 2012.11.19 08:38:00 - [40] - Quote Nerf Nerf Nerf that's all I seem to hear these days. I remember when "Dropship stomping" was the ultimate weapon on the battlefield so we learned to play Forge gun chicken..... good times!!!! So no matter what happens people will find effective ways to take out certain vehicles even if you Nerf the FG which I don't agree with as that would render it even less effective against HAVs which is it's primary role, we (The AV brigade) will figure out new ways to knock you out of the sky I'm thinking missile tank off the top of my head. The best way for you guys to stay alive is the same way I stay alive against snipers, don't stop moving EVER!! As a heavy I die a lot to ambushes and snipers the same tactics apply to large vehicles against FG gunners as we are AV snipers. I lose a lot of ISK while running my FG fit runs about 150K and I can lose 4 or 5 in a match easily against either a Advanced HAV or Dropship with good gunners. One thing I saw was certain Pilots having pre determined fight paths that would cause Swarm rockets to strike terrain and only left small openings for me to lead my shots, maybe something to think about. Snag out

Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.11.19 11:21:00 - [41] - Quote say what? Decrease forge range, increase flight cieling... so you can shoot the forge from all the way across the map with your endless range missiles while he shoots at you and falls way short? Did I get that right? Forge shots need leading when there is a moving target over around 150m+, it's not like it's point at you fire and your dead from across the map. Unlike the assault rifle, sniper, HMG, sub,achine gun , laser rifle and countless other weapons the forge is not auto hit detect weapon, it has to travel at a slower rate that can easily be outran
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2012.11.19 18:26:00 - [42] - Quote Lead Squall wrote: another idea would be to add some spread to the shots. If you make the forge gun slightly less precise, you would have a similar effect, but if wouldn't effectively be a heavy sniper rifle that takes out nearly everything. This would totally screw forge guns. Because they have such a long charge time between shots there are a lot of situations where you only get one shot to save yourself. Having that one shot randomly miss even if you aimed perfectly is not a good idea.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.20 00:32:00 - [43] - Quote Such bads necroing a pretty old thread.. -_- Alright kiddies, here we go: As a competent Dropship Pilot, I still feel there is no point in being a Dropship Pilot dedicated to troop transport, I regularly state that the missiles need nerfing (A Dropship should never be a attack ship, it should be used for dropping off troops safely) but they need to be a lot stronger. In a previous post I typed up a Dropships description, it's meant to be a heavily armored troop transport vehicle, now for all you mugs that keep resorting to "FORGEGUN IS RAILGUN AND IT MUST SHOOT TO END OF MAP COS DESCRIPTION SAYS SO!" Must agree that a Dropship Description describes a heavily armored vehicle, not a lightweight, flimsy, coffin that can be destroyed very quickly. I've also been practicing with Forge Guns, being able to kill Vehicles with great ease. I can see why you don't want it nerfed, it's a spectacular weapon that is good for all types of enemies, vehicles and infantry alike. You say you can't aim it, LOL, that **** is unbelievably easy to aim, you time your attack, judge the distance and release the shot. Stupidly easy. I ask for a Nerf to range, nothing more. A Forge Gun is a devastating weapon, especially when deployed to the correct location. Problem is, it can become unbeatable. I've seen Gunners in mountains just sniping vehicles, I sit in a mountain popping every LAV that comes into the game, before it deploys. Dropships die within three shots of my basic Assault Forge Gun, where ever I am. Take harvest line for example, you get that central point (with the two ladders leading onto it) and no vehicle should be able to move, if you're not an utterly useless forge gunner that is. Long post short Nerf Missiles Nerf Range Give Dropships more armor (MORE DEFENSE LESS OFFENSE) Raise the ceiling height because Dropships can't fly over mountains (Q_Q) (btw, posted this when I was a Dropship scrub and while I still think much of this is true I don't need advice from any other "pilot", I'm quite confident in my abilities. Aslong as I don't freeze that is.)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.20 00:48:00 - [44] - Quote Problem with nerfing Forge range AND raising the Dropship flight ceiling is that you're effectively double-nerfing the Forge. And unless the Forge Gunner is heavily specced into their Heavy Sharpshooter skill and has the absolute perfect location on a map that's practically custom-built for them, they DON'T have a range large enough to control most maps. Even then, a solidly-tanked HAV can survive a few shots and return fire effectively, so SOME vehicles can still move around, and put som ehurt back on the FG guy. Swarm patching needs fixing. I think it's legitimate that missiles fired from behind a Dropship and trying to "chase" it can be avoided, but it's NOT right for them to be able to ignore missiles fired head-on at them without having to change course, and it's NOT right for supposedly "locked on" missiles to be going out of their way to slam into nearby terrain and buildings when those things aren't remotely close to the direction of fire. Flight ceiling could to with being increased, but that SHOULDN'T come with a range nerf on Forge Guns. And that's even before we consider that Forge Guns have a long charge time, reveal themselves REALLY obviously while charging, and can't move very fast at the best of times, which gets worse while charging, and have MUCH less shields and armour than your Dropship or even the LAVs they can one-shot, or the fact that their projectile travel time means they have to be GOOD (not just "not useless" like you claim) to hit a fast-moving target at long-range. Well-fitted Dropships can already tank a few Forge hits, and it's hard to fit a tank that CAN'T tank at least one. Nerf Missile Turrets. Fix Swarm Launchers. Increase Flight Ceiling. Done.


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