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Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2012.10.04 19:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have my shield ready for all the assault flaming arrows I'll get for this...
So, the last few builds it was always "the scout suit is OP", "I can't kill any scouts at close range", "the scout is too fast", etc. Now, these complaints were true, in the sense that scouts were really tough to kill, but it had nothing to do with the suit itself. It was all about hit detection.
Now that hit detection is fixed, the true nature of the scout suit has been revealed. It's garbage. Why?
The scout can sprint less than 10% faster than the assault on base stats, yet the assault has at least 50% or greater in hit points. Not only that, but the assault suit has much higher PG and CPU.
Look at the heavy. Pretty slow- it's sprint is like 2/3 of what the assault is, and to compensate they have double the hit points of the assault. There seems to be a risk/reward choice there that is logical. But for the scout, why would I want to run 9% faster just to give up at least 1/3 of the hitpoints and a lot of CPU and PG (I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it's a big difference). Not to mentions strafing speed is so low that the scout gives no advantage there, either.
Supposedly the signature profile is different for the scouts, but I haven't seen a difference in people spotting me between the suits (with my profile sig as low as I can get it). Scouts are smaller in stature, but that makes a very minor difference- certainly not enough to make up for the scout's definicies.
Scouts should be able to sneak, use ninja like tactics, be felt but not seen. Currently (and hopefully it's coming) none of that is there.
Please consider buffing the scout so it makes sense to play. Right now it offers almost no distinct advantages.
Let the flaming begin! |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 19:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh, and I will say this: The fact that the scout suit is almost useless now might also be due to the fact that the AR is now a better sniper rifle than the sniper rifle. It's range is a bit silly right now. |
Aidan Torrall
17
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Posted - 2012.10.04 20:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
The scout suit is pretty worthless at this point. If you're going to run as a sniper, might as well be a logi or an assault. Scouts don't really excell at anything. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 21:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just with heavies and tanks, you just need to know your role. Charging an AR headfirst will get you killed. Charging a HMG headfirst will get you killed...charging anything that is not a SMG or Sniper Rifle will get you killed, and even these can kill you. As a scout you do two things: stay hidden (sniper) and flank (CQC). Although I find sniping works better with an assault suit. More equipment and health and while sniping the speed bonus doesn't help. Assaults might get spotted easier, though.
I use my CQC scout almost exclusively, and while I never really make a match without dying, I can rack up a lot of kills and other WP. Last Skirmish I had roughly 3000WP at 27/7 KDR. Scouts work.
One thing I give you: ARs range is too much right now. But if you play smart, you can easily kill them. You just have to get close.
Aidan Torrall wrote:The scout suit is pretty worthless at this point. If you're going to run as a sniper, might as well be a logi or an assault. Scouts don't really excell at anything. Yes, assaults make better snipers. But scouts are beastly in CQC with a shotgun. You can't get a better performance in CQC than with a scout. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's not completely useless, but it can no longer serve any sort of direct combat role. The stealth aspects do seem to work, but you have to make sure you are doing maximum damage because the suit is so fragile that most people will still be able to kill you if they get any chance to return fire at all. (Seriously, I'll get the drop on someone with an SMG and put nearly a full clip into them before they turn and insta kill me with only a sliver of health left over.)
I wouldn't even bother with a shield extender anymore; your only hope is to kill them before they can see you.
With that in mind, maxing out the nova knife and using profile dampeners might be worth looking into for assassinations.
Personally, I only use scouts for setting up drop uplinks and hacking objectives anymore. Even sniping with them is silly, as most assault fittings can't be OHK by a militia sniper. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
once they fix the filtering effects snipers are going to be called "OP i can't see where they are." calling it now, as scouts slowly drop their profile to ridiculous levels all you will see is assault suits dropping to the ground.
i took one look at the un-modified damage of the level V sniper rifle and knew that people were going to be going right into it as soon as they finish dropping their profile. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 21:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:once they fix the filtering effects snipers are going to be called "OP i can't see where they are." calling it now, as scouts slowly drop their profile to ridiculous levels all you will see is assault suits dropping to the ground.
i took one look at the un-modified damage of the level V sniper rifle and knew that people were going to be going right into it as soon as they finish dropping their profile. I am going to drop my signature for CQC, too...nothing is more annoying than sneaking up on my prey and him then turning around in the last moment, because something detected me...but yes, sniping will be fun without a radar profile, once the player shaders are fixed to work with fog. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've specialized in Scout so far.
Ask old time beta testers.
I've never been seen out of one with this character after finding out which fit my style ini july..
Now scouts aren't meant to tank stuff, but they are way to easy to hit in gun fights with sideways movement, and to use speed to get out, you have to turn your camera to sprint out. and when you do that, the new hit detection makes it death.
It's really lost its touch, although it's touch was enhanced before with bad hit detection. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
I get the feeling that the scout suit was designed with cloaking in mind. Right now it doesn't really have such a good role. It is garbage for sniping in, and its ability as a front-line infantry suit doesn't seem to be so hot. I am left wondering what its niche is meant to be, although I assume it was intended to involve cloaking. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I get the feeling that the scout suit was designed with cloaking in mind. Right now it doesn't really have such a good role. It is garbage for sniping in, and its ability as a front-line infantry suit doesn't seem to be so hot. I am left wondering what its niche is meant to be, although I assume it was intended to involve cloaking.
If the low signatur profile is low iam going to guess stealth this would also be buffed by the cloaking keep that in mind when balencing, in my opinion the scout is not designed to go head to head with the assult its designed to dispence a cold calculated serving of bullets to the back of the targets head. |
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Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:I've specialized in Scout so far.
Ask old time beta testers.
I've never been seen out of one with this character after finding out which fit my style ini july..
Now scouts aren't meant to tank stuff, but they are way to easy to hit in gun fights with sideways movement, and to use speed to get out, you have to turn your camera to sprint out. and when you do that, the new hit detection makes it death.
It's really lost its touch, although it's touch was enhanced before with bad hit detection.
You're inside my head! Get outta my head!
In all of the other builds, if you were in trouble, you could at least try to run for cover to regen your shields and make another go (and no, I'm not talking about going head to head with assaults/heavies in short range).
Now, as soon as you're hit, you're dead. Even if it takes a few shots, you don't even have time to run, and even if you did, the movement is slower to the point to where you're dead anyway. It takes about 0.59 seconds for an AR to drop you at any range (and yes, the AR range is way too much right now).
I agree with almost all of you (glad I'm not the only one who has been feeling this).
The scout in this build is not suitable for much. I think infiltration and cloaking were meant for this suit, and if that comes I think it would make a big difference. Even still, the sprinting and movement speed is too slow when giving up all those hit points and CPU/PG.
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Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 22:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I get the feeling that the scout suit was designed with cloaking in mind. Right now it doesn't really have such a good role. It is garbage for sniping in, and its ability as a front-line infantry suit doesn't seem to be so hot. I am left wondering what its niche is meant to be, although I assume it was intended to involve cloaking. If the low signatur profile is low iam going to guess stealth this would also be buffed by the cloaking keep that in mind when balencing, in my opinion the scout is not designed to go head to head with the assult its designed to dispence a cold calculated serving of bullets to the back of the targets head.
I agree (head to head isn't for the scout), but at 350 or 400m, a scout with a sniper rifle should win. Anything mid to short range, no. But at long range a sniper scout should win, but right now they don't. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 23:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vincam Velmoriar wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I get the feeling that the scout suit was designed with cloaking in mind. Right now it doesn't really have such a good role. It is garbage for sniping in, and its ability as a front-line infantry suit doesn't seem to be so hot. I am left wondering what its niche is meant to be, although I assume it was intended to involve cloaking. If the low signatur profile is low iam going to guess stealth this would also be buffed by the cloaking keep that in mind when balencing, in my opinion the scout is not designed to go head to head with the assult its designed to dispence a cold calculated serving of bullets to the back of the targets head. I agree (head to head isn't for the scout), but at 350 or 400m, a scout with a sniper rifle should win. Anything mid to short range, no. But at long range a sniper scout should win, but right now they don't.
Oh yeah i agree a sniper rifles effective range in modern day is at least 1000m and it does one thing very well putting one big bullet very percily onto one spot, while i will admit a 1000m shot is not easy to pull of it has been done, But as some people say about the AR has too much range iam not sure i agree in reality a AR can hit further than these ARs can but the ones we have now are the close range weapon type so maybe they are right, but i think the bigger problem the snipers have against AR is that ARs dont currently have recoil which effectivly meens we can fire full auto and anti snipe that is not right while a skilled AR marksman can hit at ranges the AR is shooting every one is currectly a skilled marks man because you dont need to compinsate for anything about the gun yet.
I also think that the tac net system needs a redesign so its manual and that people who provide the "intel" get points for it that is where scouts with their array of advanced sensors and sensor dampeners would shine and would be as vital a role as a logi especialy if they had stuff like jammers/scramblers to mess up hostile tac net then the cqc scout would have a part in a squad other than where the hell is he gone? |
Aidan Torrall
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 01:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Vincam Velmoriar wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I get the feeling that the scout suit was designed with cloaking in mind. Right now it doesn't really have such a good role. It is garbage for sniping in, and its ability as a front-line infantry suit doesn't seem to be so hot. I am left wondering what its niche is meant to be, although I assume it was intended to involve cloaking. If the low signatur profile is low iam going to guess stealth this would also be buffed by the cloaking keep that in mind when balencing, in my opinion the scout is not designed to go head to head with the assult its designed to dispence a cold calculated serving of bullets to the back of the targets head. I agree (head to head isn't for the scout), but at 350 or 400m, a scout with a sniper rifle should win. Anything mid to short range, no. But at long range a sniper scout should win, but right now they don't. Oh yeah i agree a sniper rifles effective range in modern day is at least 1000m and it does one thing very well putting one big bullet very percily onto one spot, while i will admit a 1000m shot is not easy to pull of it has been done, But as some people say about the AR has too much range iam not sure i agree in reality a AR can hit further than these ARs can but the ones we have now are the close range weapon type so maybe they are right, but i think the bigger problem the snipers have against AR is that ARs dont currently have recoil which effectivly meens we can fire full auto and anti snipe that is not right while a skilled AR marksman can hit at ranges the AR is shooting every one is currectly a skilled marks man because you dont need to compinsate for anything about the gun yet. I also think that the tac net system needs a redesign so its manual and that people who provide the "intel" get points for it that is where scouts with their array of advanced sensors and sensor dampeners would shine and would be as vital a role as a logi especialy if they had stuff like jammers/scramblers to mess up hostile tac net then the cqc scout would have a part in a squad other than where the hell is he gone?
Yeah, I think that's my greatest complaint here. The scout suit has no role. Every other suit does.
Scout suit to snipe? Nope, assault is better. Scout suit to hack objectives? Nope, assault suit is also better because it's slightly slower yet can actually fight back (not paper thin). Scout to run around in cqc? Nope, heavy assault or plain assault is better. Scout for support/revive? Nope, Logi is better with revive and more CPU/PG for drop uplinks and nanohive.
I just want to know what CCP sees as the role for the scout, because I can't find one. |
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 04:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
+1 for almost useless scout. I run logi or assault now to fulfill the same roles. Speed and got detection need to be fixed. Scout now = fat ninja. |
GOLD LEAD3R
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.10.05 06:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker wrote:+1 for almost useless scout. I run logi or assault now to fulfill the same roles. Speed and got detection need to be fixed. Scout now = fat ninja.
Definitely. Everybody called nerf on the scout, but once hit detection was fixed, it was curtains for would-be scout players. VERY glad hit detection is fixed, but the scout suit needs something to actually have a place (role) in this cruel, cruel world of EVE. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 06:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aidan Torrall wrote:
Yeah, I think that's my greatest complaint here. The scout suit has no role. Every other suit does.
Scout suit to snipe? Nope, assault is better. Scout suit to hack objectives? Nope, assault suit is also better because it's slightly slower yet can actually fight back (not paper thin). Scout to run around in cqc? Nope, heavy assault or plain assault is better. Scout for support/revive? Nope, Logi is better with revive and more CPU/PG for drop uplinks and nanohive.
I just want to know what CCP sees as the role for the scout, because I can't find one.
scouts are pretty good at sniping. it's just the visuals that need to be fixed. with their low profile and low resolution they can pick up a lot and be seen by little. in a skirmish match i pulled out my skinweave suit with assault rifle and would easily follow people to get attacks of opportunity as i get to where my breath is on their neck and open fire. went 9/3 that match, was fun. then i get dominated the next with a ridiculous 6/18 because of the play-doh rifle and a prototype suit. i really felt pain then. but at least i didn't lose isk like that prototype. killed him 2-3 times at the expense of my own clones and militia/level one gear. i made it my mission. |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
CQC scout for the mass's is dead. Sure one or two really good players can do OK in em but scout is just a lol suit now.
Give it speed and agility and make it less of a fat ninja. |
Mira Adari
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 10:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aidan Torrall wrote:
Yeah, I think that's my greatest complaint here. The scout suit has no role. Every other suit does.
Scout suit to snipe? Nope, assault is better. Scout suit to hack objectives? Nope, assault suit is also better because it's slightly slower yet can actually fight back (not paper thin). Scout to run around in cqc? Nope, heavy assault or plain assault is better. Scout for support/revive? Nope, Logi is better with revive and more CPU/PG for drop uplinks and nanohive.
I just want to know what CCP sees as the role for the scout, because I can't find one.
The scout has a definite CQC role...for CQC you need to close in fast. The speed bonus is really useful. I tried an assault suit with a shotgun, and he is not nearly as efficient as the scout suit. And I won't ever try a Heavy in CQC...this will definitely fail. A heavy can't even track me with his HMG, when I run around him to shoot him in the back. You just can't charge in head first, you have to be smart.
Capping is also working very good with a Scout. Due to your low profile, you can cap an objective before the enemy even notices you are there, and then they can't spawn there anymore, giving you the opportunity to lay an ambush...stealth-capping...obviously works best on deserted objectives, but one or two defenders can be overcome, if they aren't very alert. When they notice you, they already have your shotgun up their kittens.
If you flank with a scout and low radar profile, you can take out whole groups of enemies, before they even notice you are there. The bulk of your teams engage them, you come in from the back or the side and take them out one after the other... |
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 13:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fat paper ninja |
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Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 13:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just occured to me does CCP intend to put skill bonuses on suits like they do on ships in eve, a scout could have racial sniper rifle damage +5% to damage per level and maybe stability this would make it better at sniping than a assult for sniping? It would probably have like a bonus like a cover op ship for cloacking devices making it the base line of covert suits with others varients of assult and logi having covert ablitity maybe the Teck 2 or 3 varients? |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 14:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
i could see all suits gaining bonsues like that one scout suits could get a 5% bonus to something with cloaking, another scout could get a 5% signatrue reduction per level another could get 5% increase to stamina recharge. i do think that only assualt should get 5% bonuses to damage, range and certian movement speeds. scout should get 5% bonus to things like speed of or scout related things for example 5 % faster reload or 5% faster draw speed however since scouts shouldnt be direct combat suits like assault they shouldnt get bonuses to damage ever. |
GOLD LEAD3R
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.10.05 14:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 to the bonus idea. |
Anonymous Clone
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.10.05 16:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: ...But as some people say about the AR has too much range iam not sure i agree in reality a AR can hit further than these ARs can...
It's not about realism, but game balance. Sometimes you have to sacrifice realism to make the game fun. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 17:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think inreasing kick from holding the trigger would balance them realistically. They still be good at medium range and kick wouldn't screw with their cqc however it would make people use twice as much ammo or controlled burst for long AR work which would be realistic and you wont have people withering under AR fire from 100m out |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Just occured to me does CCP intend to put skill bonuses on suits like they do on ships in eve, a scout could have racial sniper rifle damage +5% to damage per level and maybe stability this would make it better at sniping than a assult for sniping? It would probably have like a bonus like a cover op ship for cloacking devices making it the base line of covert suits with others varients of assult and logi having covert ablitity maybe the Teck 2 or 3 varients?
The specialization suits on the buckingham server give some hint to this.
The two scout suits -might- alleviate some issues but the trade-offs seem rather immense currently, and I'm not sure which one I would personally go for as I feel the scout could benefit from both.
1.) Breach Scout - Description hints at increased weapon damage and ammo capacity. 2.) Infiltrator Scout - Description hints at faster hacking and reduced scan profile. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eh I like the eve system were every suit has a different bonus I would think assault would get weapon bonuses damage rof accuarcy scout would get agility bonuses draw, scoping, sprint stamina recharge, logi would get bonus to external equipment hacking drops etc and heavys would get hp bonuses.
I would want scout suits to have agility bonus not damage or hacking bonuses I think of the scouts as a more recon/combat suit they don't need bonuses to damage and ammo they should get quickdraw and quick scopes bonuses agility. And I'm against scouts with hacking bonus they already get there first they don't need it |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
To put it simply, the scout has more disadvantage than advantage. You get a minor increase in stealth capabilities and an almost imperceptible increase in speed, but you have to trade out a significant amount of HP, CPU, PG, and even lose some fitting space to get that tiny bump.
I've played almost entirely scout for about 3 months now, and even paid for the merc pack almost solely for the Dragonfly, but I won't touch it now.... there's just no logical reason to justify using that piece of junk. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
@OP scouts will be able to cloak /thread |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:To put it simply, the scout has more disadvantage than advantage. You get a minor increase in stealth capabilities and an almost imperceptible increase in speed, but you have to trade out a significant amount of HP, CPU, PG, and even lose some fitting space to get that tiny bump.
I've played almost entirely scout for about 3 months now, and even paid for the merc pack almost solely for the Dragonfly, but I won't touch it now.... there's just no logical reason to justify using that piece of junk. What about faster reload faster draw faster regen move stamina does that not matter to you? |
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