+1 to this.

I've stated this before and a lot of the community seemed to get very... angry with me. I like this feature because it means that no-one can ever advance farther than anyone else except by total time played - similar to Eve Online. If you started in 2014, you'll never have more SP than someone who was playing back in 2012, as in Eve Online.

Sure - go ahead and say that it's punishing the more dedicated players or that it's a disappointing mechanic. Regardless of how you feel, it's important to remember that this is more an MMO than it is an FPS. If you have more time to play it shouldn't guarantee that you're going to get rewarded more than someone who has more real-life obligations when there are long term investments that get lost from the conflict.

If Johnny can only play for three hours a day because of work, school, kids etc. and Juice can play for eight hours a day - Juice shouldn't be given more skill-points than Johnny just because he has more time to play. This wouldn't be a bad system in a game like Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 because there's no investment to lose. It's matches that have no consequence at the end. This, on the other hand, has all sorts of consequences whenever a match is won or lost.

With Juice having more time, and more SP, he is more likely to win a match - and thereby affect everything Johnny has worked for.

Why would you call your kid Juice though? That's the real question. You would never be able to give juice to Juice because that's basically cannibalism.

I agree with you though the cap is a good idea. Means I won't have to live on Dust keep up with everyone

On a sidenote: juice sounds and looks really stupid after you say it for a while

On a sidenote: juice sounds and looks really stupid after you say it for a while

I'm a big fan of this and the passive SP gain only going to a single character too. It feels much more like EVE now and it's going to mean i don't have to log in every day just for the diminishing returns, i can play once or twice a week, hit my cap and have done.

If you have two pilots in EVE on the same account can they both not skill up at the same time?

Not from EVE forgive the ignorance.

I'm a big fan of this and the passive SP gain only going to a single character too. It feels much more like EVE now and it's going to mean i don't have to log in every day just for the diminishing returns, i can play once or twice a week, hit my cap and have done.

If you have two pilots in EVE on the same account can they both not skill up at the same time?

Not from EVE forgive the ignorance.

No. Only one. If you want to change to skill another, all skill training on the first must be stopped. Its why many have multiple accounts

So you can only have one pilot per account?

You can have 3 chars on 1 EVE account, but only 1 of those can be training at a time.

+1 to this.

I've stated this before and a lot of the community seemed to get very... angry with me. I like this feature because it means that no-one can ever advance farther than anyone else except by total time played - similar to Eve Online. If you started in 2014, you'll never have more SP than someone who was playing back in 2012, as in Eve Online.

Sure - go ahead and say that it's punishing the more dedicated players or that it's a disappointing mechanic. Regardless of how you feel, it's important to remember that this is more an MMO than it is an FPS. If you have more time to play it shouldn't guarantee that you're going to get rewarded more than someone who has more real-life obligations when there are long term investments that get lost from the conflict.

If Johnny can only play for three hours a day because of work, school, kids etc. and Juice can play for eight hours a day - Juice shouldn't be given more skill-points than Johnny just because he has more time to play. This wouldn't be a bad system in a game like Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 because there's no investment to lose. It's matches that have no consequence at the end. This, on the other hand, has all sorts of consequences whenever a match is won or lost.

With Juice having more time, and more SP, he is more likely to win a match - and thereby affect everything Johnny has worked for.

Howeve, the person who has been playing for year will have overwhelming advantage over a player who just started

Howeve, the person who has been playing for year will have overwhelming advantage over a player who just started

Actually in EVE a person whos been playing longer and has more SP is not always at an advantage.

Howeve, the person who has been playing for year will have overwhelming advantage over a player who just started

Industrial carebears

Welcome to the wonderful world of eve online :)

So wait...the guy who plays too much can't have an advantage, but the guy who takes dust like a religion can have an overwhelming advantage......hmmmmm kinda seems like the same thing lol CCP once again you have proved that you fail at FPS

LONG LIVE EVETARDS

Not necessarily. In Eve Online players who have been playing longer have more skill-points in their specialization.

A player who started in 2012 has two years worth of SP gain over the player from 2014, -however- he has it all specialized in Heavies, Forge Guns, and Anti-Vehicle grenades.

The player from 2014 specializes in Assault suits with Assault Rifles and Locus Grenades. He has a marked advantage over his enemy despite the enemy having two years worth of SP.

Just saying - I get taken out by militia assault rifles in my heavy and I use advanced/prototype gear. It's not so unbelievable that the new player, choosing his specialization well, can counter other player's specializations.

It's not really a hard cap. A hard cap implies stopping gain altogether. This is more of a soft cap. being that, it will slow progress but not halt it altogether.
The cap has been here the whole time, have you ever been playing, gotten more SP at first, then you had a hard time getting over 20k-30k? That's the cap. The only difference, is, now it's reset on a weekly basis, rather than daily. So, rather than getting 50k SP 4 games in a row, and hit the cap, then wait til the next day to repeat the cycle, you'll get 50k SP 28 games in a row, and hit the cap for the week.

You make no ******* sense. He's saying that if somebody has had an active character for over a year, they'll have an advantage over people who have had an active character for a week, even if they played less in that year, than the other guy did in that week.


Active character 365d | 7d
Playtime 50h | 150h
Skillpoints 14m | 6m

This is such a limited example

The Hardcore slayer, me and many others, will have a unbelievable advantage over the newer players. It would be like bringing a knife to gun fight... how is justifiable in FPS

I'm a big fan of this and the passive SP gain only going to a single character too. It feels much more like EVE now and it's going to mean i don't have to log in every day just for the diminishing returns, i can play once or twice a week, hit my cap and have done.

depends on how big the cap is tbh
ppl shouldnt be punished too much and make this game painfully slow grind just because they can play a bit more.

this also makes it harder for newer players to catch up to vets months down the line
when u got that cap in place no matter how much time a newbie has to play catch up he will now struggle to close the SP gap and as u said.............this is a game of consequence and now the newbie is being punished because he didnt start playing from day 1.

What Im saying is this not a solution, but a problem.

I understand you eve players like to play house, and your badass at it

This system might be good for mmo, but it is horrible for FPS. CCP is basically saying because you're so loyal to our game we are going make super strong

Time played> Gun GAME
lol

depends on how big the cap is tbh
ppl shouldnt be punished too much and make this game painfully slow grind just because they can play a bit more.

this also makes it harder for newer players to catch up to vets months down the line
when u got that cap in place no matter how much time a newbie has to play catch up he will now struggle to close the SP gap and as u said.............this is a game of consequence and now the newbie is being punished because he didnt start playing from day 1.

depends on how big the cap is tbh
ppl shouldnt be punished too much and make this game painfully slow grind just because they can play a bit more.

this also makes it harder for newer players to catch up to vets months down the line
when u got that cap in place no matter how much time a newbie has to play catch up he will now struggle to close the SP gap and as u said.............this is a game of consequence and now the newbie is being punished because he didnt start playing from day 1.

How do you figure dude? I've been playing CONSOLE first person shooters for as long as I've had a PS3 - which I bought for Dust 514. I have no issue going toe-to-toe with the majority of players and admittedly there are a few that I still have issues with (but actively avoid).

Time played doesn't mean anything over skill.
Skill doesn't mean anything over time played.

It's a perfect system that all depends on the player itself that learns by their mistakes and can counteract their flaws over time - such is the way of everything New Eden is.

How do you think people that have just come to EVE feel? Having less than 1m SP against some people with 100m?

They can still win though and do on a regular basis, your point is moot as it's pointed out and proven wrong multiple times in EVE.

This is not MAG, This is EVE in FPS form.

All your opinion on the subject is based on your eve experience... which I must point out is MMO, and not a FPS
new players if they have dedication and will power should be able to catch up.
Right now in build is great example of what happens when A FULL PROTO vet a goes against a militia.

This game has always been TIME PLAYED>GUN GAME... now its just long term

For once I'm going to shake hands with a Goon and say to just ignore them, they're stupid and obsolved in their own ideals - thereby it is pointless to try and change them for we are EVETARDS NYEH-HEH-HEH-HAH.

Seriously though it's not worth trying to explain it to the lesser beings. Let them toil about in their own discord.

And why the **** shouldn't it be that way? This game was never intended to be ****ing balanced - if you don't like it go back to your p.o.s FPS game. I get tired of this same freaggin argument over and over again.

edit: This is the same frakking logic you're trying to prove so what's the got damn issue?

Hardly. I'll say it -yet again- it's all about specialization. A player that chooses to put his skill-points all in Tanks, investing MILLIONS of SP into them won't be able to fight a new player in an infantry battle..

Or did you somehow forget what happened after the vehicle hotfix when everyone stopped using Tanks and were crying to have their SP reimbursed because they didn't have anything to fight with?

Generally we do what we're talking about when we're not trolling you know. ;)

As for the FPS comparisons against an MMO game are you missing that this is a FPSMMO not a FPS or a MMO?

I suppose the next thing you're going to say is that because its a FPSMMO and not a MMOFPS that the FPS section and balance should be put before anything MMO related.

Generally we do what we're talking about when we're not trolling you know. ;)

As for the FPS comparisons against an MMO game are you missing that this is a FPSMMO not a FPS or a MMO?

I suppose the next thing you're going to say is that because its a FPSMMO and not a MMOFPS that the FPS section and balance should be put before anything MMO related.

No. Only one. If you want to change to skill another, all skill training on the first must be stopped. Its why many have multiple accounts

THIS

But your argument was how the system was now more balanced, and now you agree with may statement that the system is unbalanced

glad we could agree on something ;)

And why the **** shouldn't it be that way? This game was never intended to be ****ing balanced - if you don't like it go back to your p.o.s FPS game. I get tired of this same freaggin argument over and over again.

edit: This is the same frakking logic you're trying to prove so what's the got damn issue?

A hardcore player that starts even just one week after launch who always hits the cap will NEVER catch up to a hardcore player that starts on day one and also always hits the cap.

i lol'd at that part
sooooo.................why was tanks nerfed again? because u know ppl didnt specialize in proto AV and cried for CCP to balance a TANK against the solo AV guy and not a squad of AV

Don't think that last bit was in relation toward me so I'm going to ignore it for now.

So which would you prefer:

System A) A player experiences diminishing returns but no hard cap to where they can just endless rack in SP, so that from Day One they will have AN INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE over a new player.

or

System B) Where a player starting from day one his a hard-cap but will always have an advantage over a new player.

Just saying, System B is the lesser of two evils. I'd rather fight against someone who's faced hard-caps and has a set amount of SP because he's been playing longer than I have than someone who does absolutely nothing with their life -AND- has been playing longer than me with no limitations on how much he can gain from his matches.

But I can't honestly expect anyone on these forums to understand that logic because CARROTS AND PEAS ARE BAD FOR ME

No it wasn't it was aimed at whoever it was that was claiming dust a FPS game first and was in fact not an MMO

Why can't there be a happy medium? I'm sure CCP is smart enough to figure this out.

Just because EVE does something one way doesn't mean its the best or right decision for dust.

Why can't there be a happy medium? I'm sure CCP is smart enough to figure this out.

Just because EVE does something one way doesn't mean its the best or right decision for dust.

I never once agree'd with you - and your strawman argument is ridiculous.

We're done here, and I desperately await the opportunity to show you how little your "gun-game" matters in New Eden.

They -did- dude. Diminishing returns over the course of a week with a hard-cap. It doesn't get much more middle ground than that. ANYTHING else and it's too one-sided in either direction.

Because Dust is EVE in FPS form, this is not DUST the FPS that's seperate to EVE.

If CCP changed how SP works they risk loosing their entire playerbase in EVE when they realise that someone whos been playing Dust for a month has more SP than they have gained in a year.

now Im gonna have re quote all this stuff ahhh
In summary,
You said the that the new SP cap system being implemented was perfect! however, I then explained how the system, long term, was unbalance for new players.

You then said "And why the **** shouldn't it be that way? This game was never intended to be ****ing balanced"

So you agree that this game is unbalanced ie. "This game was never intended to be ****ing balanced"

Lastly, how can a system be perfect if its imbalanced , contradiction much ;/

Maybe they'll put an hour of thought into it and think they've come to the best and only conclusion.


Or maybe they'll do some testing and get some feedback from the non-fanboys.

Maybe they'll put an hour of thought into it and think they've come to the best and only conclusion.


Or maybe they'll do some testing and get some feedback from the non-fanboys.

Since you skipped over it to get your point across I'll repost it again:

System A) A player experiences diminishing returns but no hard cap to where they can just endless rack in SP, so that from Day One they will have AN INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE over a new player.

or

System B) Where a player starting from day one his a hard-cap but will always have an advantage over a new player.

Just saying, System B is the lesser of two evils. I'd rather fight against someone who's faced hard-caps and has a set amount of SP because he's been playing longer than I have than someone who does absolutely nothing with their life -AND- has been playing longer than me with no limitations on how much he can gain from his matches.

It's meant to reward long term players and those that adopt the game early, just like in EVE.

Its pretty similar to real life you know, you're not going to learn more than a professional driver just because you've spent 100 hours this week driving while he's spent 2 hours doing it this week.

He has years of experience that you cant and wont ever get until he dies or quits and you then catch up and or surpass him.

wow way sway the topic train!
Anyways, Im the type of guy who tries find a solution that involves no evil, my only solution is a win-win situation
However, Iam glad we agree the new system is imbalanced... that is a start I think

Yea i agree with this, i just dont like when i see people defending to the death something CCP did just because -they- did it.

I do think this system is better than the last but i think they could still improve upon it, not quite sure how but i'm sure they could.

Also Aeon, EVE player =/= fanboy.

Jesus christ... That's it - putting a bounty on your head for stupidity...

wow way sway the topic train!
Anyways, Im the type of guy who tries find a solution that involves no evil, my only solution is a win-win situation
However, Iam glad we agree the new system is imbalanced... that is a start I think

Underlined being the operative word. But in some cases there aren't a win-win solution to be found. Some cases there are only lose-lose and one has to pick which of those lose conditions are more in favour of ones goals.

Why can't there be a happy medium? I'm sure CCP is smart enough to figure this out.

Just because EVE does something one way doesn't mean its the best or right decision for dust.

I'd prefer some system where the newest player has a chance to match up to the highest player at some point, but with the current system a player who starts playing a year later will ALWAYS be one year behind the "best" players.

If there MUST be a cap, then the cap should be dynamic, with it being higher for players with less Skill Points. But for that to really be effective, it would have to be so high for new players that it would appear to them that there is no cap. However, that would completely defeat the purpose of the cap in the first place, and would allow for newbies to boost Skill Points in their early games.

Yea i agree with this, i just dont like when i see people defending to the death something CCP did just because -they- did it.

I do think this system is better than the last but i think they could still improve upon it, not quite sure how but i'm sure they could.

Also Aeon, EVE player =/= fanboy.

OP failure to read its a soft cap not hard.

I was wondering how they would balance trade, science, corp, and industry skills between games. The market and corps at least are shared, if sp are gained at different rate in two games it will favor that game for shared skills. So cap makes sense, even though I preferred current rate.

The passive sp should work on all char since it's a free game, otherwise people will just make more accounts. I assume 3 char on 1 account is better then 1 char on each of 3 accounts from ccp side. So, why not let all three gain passive?

join the club,

anyways your the one who said the system was balanced, and then agreed with me that it was imbalanced.
Just connecting the dots`

all this really does is shift the advantage from the guy who plays MORE, to the guy who played FIRST?

it's still not "fair" if anything it's more skewed than the old system, in that no matter how hard he tries, a new player will never catch up?

i guess i don't really have much reason to care either way... being in this forum means we're all in on the ground floor. so i will be receiving the maximum benefit of this new system... but speaking objectively, it's definitely a barrier to entry for new players in the future.



this also makes me wonder about skillpoint boosters. will they make you reach the cap 50% faster? seems like a potential waste of aurum. or will the boosters 50% be in addition to the normal cap? seems like a potential "pay to win" shitstorm.