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Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 13:36:00 - [1] - Quote +1 to this. I've stated this before and a lot of the community seemed to get very... angry with me. I like this feature because it means that no-one can ever advance farther than anyone else except by total time played - similar to Eve Online. If you started in 2014, you'll never have more SP than someone who was playing back in 2012, as in Eve Online. Sure - go ahead and say that it's punishing the more dedicated players or that it's a disappointing mechanic. Regardless of how you feel, it's important to remember that this is more an MMO than it is an FPS. If you have more time to play it shouldn't guarantee that you're going to get rewarded more than someone who has more real-life obligations when there are long term investments that get lost from the conflict. If Johnny can only play for three hours a day because of work, school, kids etc. and Juice can play for eight hours a day - Juice shouldn't be given more skill-points than Johnny just because he has more time to play. This wouldn't be a bad system in a game like Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 because there's no investment to lose. It's matches that have no consequence at the end. This, on the other hand, has all sorts of consequences whenever a match is won or lost. With Juice having more time, and more SP, he is more likely to win a match - and thereby affect everything Johnny has worked for.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 13:43:00 - [2] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: Why would you call your kid Juice though? That's the real question. You would never be able to give juice to Juice because that's basically cannibalism. I agree with you though the cap is a good idea. Means I won't have to live on Dust keep up with everyone On a sidenote: juice sounds and looks really stupid after you say it for a while Johnny is the name of the bass player from my band. Juice is the nickname of my drummer because he had a bad habit of responding to any word that started with a 'j' sound. >_>;
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:16:00 - [3] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: +1 to this. I've stated this before and a lot of the community seemed to get very... angry with me. I like this feature because it means that no-one can ever advance farther than anyone else except by total time played - similar to Eve Online. If you started in 2014, you'll never have more SP than someone who was playing back in 2012, as in Eve Online. Sure - go ahead and say that it's punishing the more dedicated players or that it's a disappointing mechanic. Regardless of how you feel, it's important to remember that this is more an MMO than it is an FPS. If you have more time to play it shouldn't guarantee that you're going to get rewarded more than someone who has more real-life obligations when there are long term investments that get lost from the conflict. If Johnny can only play for three hours a day because of work, school, kids etc. and Juice can play for eight hours a day - Juice shouldn't be given more skill-points than Johnny just because he has more time to play. This wouldn't be a bad system in a game like Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 because there's no investment to lose. It's matches that have no consequence at the end. This, on the other hand, has all sorts of consequences whenever a match is won or lost. With Juice having more time, and more SP, he is more likely to win a match - and thereby affect everything Johnny has worked for. Howeve, the person who has been playing for year will have overwhelming advantage over a player who just started Not necessarily. In Eve Online players who have been playing longer have more skill-points in their specialization. A player who started in 2012 has two years worth of SP gain over the player from 2014, -however- he has it all specialized in Heavies, Forge Guns, and Anti-Vehicle grenades. The player from 2014 specializes in Assault suits with Assault Rifles and Locus Grenades. He has a marked advantage over his enemy despite the enemy having two years worth of SP. Just saying - I get taken out by militia assault rifles in my heavy and I use advanced/prototype gear. It's not so unbelievable that the new player, choosing his specialization well, can counter other player's specializations.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:17:00 - [4] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: +1 to this. I've stated this before and a lot of the community seemed to get very... angry with me. I like this feature because it means that no-one can ever advance farther than anyone else except by total time played - similar to Eve Online. If you started in 2014, you'll never have more SP than someone who was playing back in 2012, as in Eve Online. Sure - go ahead and say that it's punishing the more dedicated players or that it's a disappointing mechanic. Regardless of how you feel, it's important to remember that this is more an MMO than it is an FPS. If you have more time to play it shouldn't guarantee that you're going to get rewarded more than someone who has more real-life obligations when there are long term investments that get lost from the conflict. If Johnny can only play for three hours a day because of work, school, kids etc. and Juice can play for eight hours a day - Juice shouldn't be given more skill-points than Johnny just because he has more time to play. This wouldn't be a bad system in a game like Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 because there's no investment to lose. It's matches that have no consequence at the end. This, on the other hand, has all sorts of consequences whenever a match is won or lost. With Juice having more time, and more SP, he is more likely to win a match - and thereby affect everything Johnny has worked for. Howeve, the person who has been playing for year will have overwhelming advantage over a player who just started Actually in EVE a person whos been playing longer and has more SP is not always at an advantage. Industrial carebears
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:38:00 - [5] - Quote Kengfa wrote: It's not really a hard cap. A hard cap implies stopping gain altogether. This is more of a soft cap. being that, it will slow progress but not halt it altogether. The cap has been here the whole time, have you ever been playing, gotten more SP at first, then you had a hard time getting over 20k-30k? That's the cap. The only difference, is, now it's reset on a weekly basis, rather than daily. So, rather than getting 50k SP 4 games in a row, and hit the cap, then wait til the next day to repeat the cycle, you'll get 50k SP 28 games in a row, and hit the cap for the week. Taken directly from patch notes: *Skill point accrual has been rebalanced and now has a hard cap per week that corresponds to EVE Online
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:42:00 - [6] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: This is such a limited example The Hardcore slayer, me and many others, will have a unbelievable advantage over the newer players. It would be like bringing a knife to gun fight... how is justifiable in FPS Yes - your submachine is -totally- going to make such an amazing impact on the guy who's only been playing for a week sitting at 500m away with a sniper rifle. Specialization and skill in this game go hand in hand. There are players that honestly -should not- kill me but still do. I'm an AV specialist in this build and still get my ass handed to me occasionally by a really good LAV gunner. Likewise - there are some players that have every advantage against me that I still manage (by the grace of god) to kill before they can kill me. You're over-thinking this. Eve Online veterans get bested by new players constantly based entirely on situation. Your player-skill, in-game skills, and gear doesn't match up to three new players attacking you from all sides. Take out one of them but they'll still manage to kill you and you lost 250,000 isk to their 20,000.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:45:00 - [7] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: What Im saying is this not a solution, but a problem. I understand you eve players like to play house, and your badass at it This system might be good for mmo, but it is horrible for FPS. CCP is basically saying because you're so loyal to our game we are going make super strong Time played> Gun GAME lol How do you figure dude? I've been playing CONSOLE first person shooters for as long as I've had a PS3 - which I bought for Dust 514. I have no issue going toe-to-toe with the majority of players and admittedly there are a few that I still have issues with (but actively avoid). Time played doesn't mean anything over skill. Skill doesn't mean anything over time played. It's a perfect system that all depends on the player itself that learns by their mistakes and can counteract their flaws over time - such is the way of everything New Eden is.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:47:00 - [8] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I'm a big fan of this and the passive SP gain only going to a single character too. It feels much more like EVE now and it's going to mean i don't have to log in every day just for the diminishing returns, i can play once or twice a week, hit my cap and have done. depends on how big the cap is tbh ppl shouldnt be punished too much and make this game painfully slow grind just because they can play a bit more. this also makes it harder for newer players to catch up to vets months down the line when u got that cap in place no matter how much time a newbie has to play catch up he will now struggle to close the SP gap and as u said.............this is a game of consequence and now the newbie is being punished because he didnt start playing from day 1. Hardly. I'll say it -yet again- it's all about specialization. A player that chooses to put his skill-points all in Tanks, investing MILLIONS of SP into them won't be able to fight a new player in an infantry battle.. Or did you somehow forget what happened after the vehicle hotfix when everyone stopped using Tanks and were crying to have their SP reimbursed because they didn't have anything to fight with?
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:54:00 - [9] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I'm a big fan of this and the passive SP gain only going to a single character too. It feels much more like EVE now and it's going to mean i don't have to log in every day just for the diminishing returns, i can play once or twice a week, hit my cap and have done. depends on how big the cap is tbh ppl shouldnt be punished too much and make this game painfully slow grind just because they can play a bit more. this also makes it harder for newer players to catch up to vets months down the line when u got that cap in place no matter how much time a newbie has to play catch up he will now struggle to close the SP gap and as u said.............this is a game of consequence and now the newbie is being punished because he didnt start playing from day 1. How do you think people that have just come to EVE feel? Having less than 1m SP against some people with 100m? They can still win though and do on a regular basis, your point is moot as it's pointed out and proven wrong multiple times in EVE. This is not MAG, This is EVE in FPS form. For once I'm going to shake hands with a Goon and say to just ignore them, they're stupid and obsolved in their own ideals - thereby it is pointless to try and change them for we are EVETARDS NYEH-HEH-HEH-HAH. Seriously though it's not worth trying to explain it to the lesser beings. Let them toil about in their own discord.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:55:00 - [10] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: What Im saying is this not a solution, but a problem. I understand you eve players like to play house, and your badass at it This system might be good for mmo, but it is horrible for FPS. CCP is basically saying because you're so loyal to our game we are going make super strong Time played> Gun GAME lol How do you figure dude? I've been playing CONSOLE first person shooters for as long as I've had a PS3 - which I bought for Dust 514. I have no issue going toe-to-toe with the majority of players and admittedly there are a few that I still have issues with (but actively avoid). Time played doesn't mean anything over skill. Skill doesn't mean anything over time played. It's a perfect system that all depends on the player itself that learns by their mistakes and can counteract their flaws over time - such is the way of everything New Eden is. All your opinion on the subject is based on your eve experience... which I must point out is MMO, and not a FPS new players if they have dedication and will power should be able to catch up. Right now in build is great example of what happens when A FULL PROTO vet a goes against a militia. This game has always been TIME PLAYED>GUN GAME... now its just long term And why the ** shouldn't it be that way? This game was never intended to be **ing balanced - if you don't like it go back to your p.o.s FPS game. I get tired of this same freaggin argument over and over again. edit: This is the same frakking logic you're trying to prove so what's the got damn issue?

Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 14:59:00 - [11] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Generally we do what we're talking about when we're not trolling you know. ;) As for the FPS comparisons against an MMO game are you missing that this is a FPSMMO not a FPS or a MMO? I suppose the next thing you're going to say is that because its a FPSMMO and not a MMOFPS that the FPS section and balance should be put before anything MMO related. Don't think that last bit was in relation toward me so I'm going to ignore it for now.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:01:00 - [12] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: But your argument was how the system was now more balanced, and now you agree with may statement that the system is unbalanced glad we could agree on something ;) I never once agree'd with you - and your strawman argument is ridiculous. We're done here, and I desperately await the opportunity to show you how little your "gun-game" matters in New Eden.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:05:00 - [13] - Quote a dirty Shisno wrote: ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I'm a big fan of this and the passive SP gain only going to a single character too. It feels much more like EVE now and it's going to mean i don't have to log in every day just for the diminishing returns, i can play once or twice a week, hit my cap and have done. depends on how big the cap is tbh ppl shouldnt be punished too much and make this game painfully slow grind just because they can play a bit more. this also makes it harder for newer players to catch up to vets months down the line when u got that cap in place no matter how much time a newbie has to play catch up he will now struggle to close the SP gap and as u said.............this is a game of consequence and now the newbie is being punished because he didnt start playing from day 1. THIS A hardcore player that starts even just one week after launch who always hits the cap will NEVER catch up to a hardcore player that starts on day one and also always hits the cap. So which would you prefer: System A) A player experiences diminishing returns but no hard cap to where they can just endless rack in SP, so that from Day One they will have AN INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE over a new player. or System B) Where a player starting from day one his a hard-cap but will always have an advantage over a new player. Just saying, System B is the lesser of two evils. I'd rather fight against someone who's faced hard-caps and has a set amount of SP because he's been playing longer than I have than someone who does absolutely nothing with their life -AND- has been playing longer than me with no limitations on how much he can gain from his matches. But I can't honestly expect anyone on these forums to understand that logic because CARROTS AND PEAS ARE BAD FOR ME
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:06:00 - [14] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: i lol'd at that part sooooo.................why was tanks nerfed again? because u know ppl didnt specialize in proto AV and cried for CCP to balance a TANK against the solo AV guy and not a squad of AV I -did- specialize in Proto AV. There was a -MASSIVE- issue with the shield resistances and even CCP acknowledged that they were way too aggressive. If you want to say that was because players "cried" about something that EVEN THE DEVELOPERS SAID WAS BROKEN then you're ****ed up in the head mate.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:10:00 - [15] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Generally we do what we're talking about when we're not trolling you know. ;) As for the FPS comparisons against an MMO game are you missing that this is a FPSMMO not a FPS or a MMO? I suppose the next thing you're going to say is that because its a FPSMMO and not a MMOFPS that the FPS section and balance should be put before anything MMO related. Don't think that last bit was in relation toward me so I'm going to ignore it for now. No it wasn't it was aimed at whoever it was that was claiming dust a FPS game first and was in fact not an MMO Bro-knuckles. Can't wait to see all the tears when we Capsuleers grief these miscreants out of the game.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:11:00 - [16] - Quote KryptixX wrote: Why can't there be a happy medium? I'm sure CCP is smart enough to figure this out. Just because EVE does something one way doesn't mean its the best or right decision for dust. They -did- dude. Diminishing returns over the course of a week with a hard-cap. It doesn't get much more middle ground than that. ANYTHING else and it's too one-sided in either direction.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:15:00 - [17] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: now Im gonna have re quote all this stuff ahhh In summary, You said the that the new SP cap system being implemented was perfect! however, I then explained how the system, long term, was unbalance for new players. You then said "And why the ** shouldn't it be that way? This game was never intended to be ing balanced" So you agree that this game is unbalanced ie. "This game was never intended to be **ing balanced" Lastly, how can a system be perfect if its imbalanced , contradiction much ;/ Since you skipped over it to get your point across I'll repost it again: System A) A player experiences diminishing returns but no hard cap to where they can just endless rack in SP, so that from Day One they will have AN INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE over a new player. or System B) Where a player starting from day one his a hard-cap but will always have an advantage over a new player. Just saying, System B is the lesser of two evils. I'd rather fight against someone who's faced hard-caps and has a set amount of SP because he's been playing longer than I have than someone who does absolutely nothing with their life -AND- has been playing longer than me with no limitations on how much he can gain from his matches.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:16:00 - [18] - Quote KryptixX wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: KryptixX wrote: Why can't there be a happy medium? I'm sure CCP is smart enough to figure this out. Just because EVE does something one way doesn't mean its the best or right decision for dust. They -did- dude. Diminishing returns over the course of a week with a hard-cap. It doesn't get much more middle ground than that. ANYTHING else and it's too one-sided in either direction. Maybe they'll put an hour of thought into it and think they've come to the best and only conclusion. Or maybe they'll do some testing and get some feedback from the non-fanboys. They're going to appeal to Eve players -long- before they appeal to FPS players dude. It was made very clear at Fan Fest 2012 that Eve players' opinions pretty much get priority. Live with it.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:24:00 - [19] - Quote ThatGUYisSO GOOOOOOOOOOD wrote: wow way sway the topic train! Anyways, Im the type of guy who tries find a solution that involves no evil, my only solution is a win-win situation However, Iam glad we agree the new system is imbalanced... that is a start I think Jesus christ... That's it - putting a bounty on your head for stupidity...
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:25:00 - [20] - Quote KryptixX wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: It's meant to reward long term players and those that adopt the game early, just like in EVE. Its pretty similar to real life you know, you're not going to learn more than a professional driver just because you've spent 100 hours this week driving while he's spent 2 hours doing it this week. He has years of experience that you cant and wont ever get until he dies or quits and you then catch up and or surpass him. Yea i agree with this, i just dont like when i see people defending to the death something CCP did just because -they- did it. I do think this system is better than the last but i think they could still improve upon it, not quite sure how but i'm sure they could. Also Aeon, EVE player =/= fanboy. How assumptive of you. I like the system so I -HAVE- to like it (and subsequently defend it) because CCP implemented. Makes -perfect- sense.

Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.09.30 15:45:00 - [21] - Quote a dirty Shisno wrote: I'd prefer some system where the newest player has a chance to match up to the highest player at some point, but with the current system a player who starts playing a year later will ALWAYS be one year behind the "best" players. If there MUST be a cap, then the cap should be dynamic, with it being higher for players with less Skill Points. But for that to really be effective, it would have to be so high for new players that it would appear to them that there is no cap. However, that would completely defeat the purpose of the cap in the first place, and would allow for newbies to boost Skill Points in their early games. That's how Eve Online works dude... This game is connecting to Eve Online... If it were separate, sure, but it's not.. If it were up to me (oh **** he's actually saying something that doesn't fall into CCP's plan!!!! EVERYONE BRACE FOR IMPACT) I'd say get rid of Active SP Gain entirely and make it entirely passive - then we wouldn't have this argument in the first place.