GÇ£CheatingGÇ¥ or farming SP without risk
Update: There is fix planned for this, the idea is that there will be a cap on total rewards that can be earned per match.

Now hopefully I don't have to explain how retarted this solution is

source please?

no but please explain.... what is retarted?

Yes because lord knows we can't have balance between a player who has a twelve hour job with a family and a player who has absolutely nothing to do other than play Dust 514 for sixteen hours straight...

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention. ^ That thing there? ^ That's sarcasm.

Knowing a little about the vague idea of how the system currently works, it is likely the system will cap rewards for a given *type* of action per match. So it would only affect people doing one type of action for a majority of the match.

source is the update thread in feedback. And I agree in the retardedness of the solution. Esspecially as I also read in a post a month ago (from a dev) that the WP ISK gain during match will be awarded even though you leave prematurely. Sounds like a bad combo...

So if Im a slayer and I only kill, then I will be affected

So if Im a slayer and I only kill, then I will be affected

It does depend on the size of the cap, if it big enough to allow a good performace without hitting the cap but small enough that it cannot be abused too much.

A better way would be to only award points for repairs. If the item being repaired is active in the match. ie if it hasn't earn't any WP itself why reward people for repairing it. The repers would be more useful to the team if they repair those that are active in the battle.

While its good to see CCP trying to fix some of the more flagrant cheating, i'm not sure this is a good solution to the problem (not that I have anything better at present).

Ultimately friendly fire might be the best solution though it won't stop small groups of like minded from teaming up and doing this.

While its good to see CCP trying to fix some of the more flagrant cheating, i'm not sure this is a good solution to the problem (not that I have anything better at present).

Ultimately friendly fire might be the best solution though it won't stop small groups of like minded from teaming up and doing this.

(possibly some sort of reputation system that lets mercs or employers rank potential or past hirees? Obviously that would also have potential drawbacks, including abuse, but it would certainly show over time who could and couldn't be trusted. Trust is everything to a Merc).

so your sugesting shooting them dead causing us minus points to stop sp farming ppl? great idea punish the legit player's for the player's whit a mental age of below 13 . . .

how is that relevent to SP FARMING???????????

Well why else -wouldn't- you want an SP cap unless you wanted to power-grind beyond any other player's capability because you have more time than they do? If it's left open ended someone could just blaze through and advance like mad by comparison to someone who couldn't.

POWER GRINDING IS NOT SP FARMING

one thing that would go a long way to stopping this.

fix the game.

make it fun, make it interesting, make it exciting and worth playing.

sorry but honestly it's gameplay as it stands is boring as hell.

There is no reason to play, nothing to play for and no one cares about winning / losing, it's just a point grab or see how many kills i get to make me look like i'm good.

the stupid little things that make people want to '' play the game '' and make it fun are sorely lacking.

Yep, its a beta. If it were a finished game that would be a valid point.
As it is we are volunteer testers for an unfinished product. Such is the downside of 'testing' computer coding.

then i guess everyone should stop moaning until its released, then we can all just not play it for said reasons.

smh
sometimes i wonder CCP.....
why have a cap? makes no sense if someone is playing well they should be rewarded and like noc said if its based on doin a certain amount of actions alot then thats gonna hurt the "slayers" as Regnum said. Slayers jobs are to kill and defend their obj players while they cap the objective and to help secure the area so their obj players can have an easier time cappin objectives

HOPEFULLY it wont affect something like kills but still it hurts logi players if its gonna cap actions like repairs

If I had decided to fix the problem with a warpoint/skillpoint cap, I suppose what comes to mind first is a tight cap on repairing incidental or damage(maybe the total hp of the vehicle, just pulling anumber out of my a**) and no cap on repairing damage taken from enemy fire.

And no cap on warpoint/skillpoints for kills/hacks/etc.

I don't see the downside to this. It doesn't restrict player behavior, and it doesn't reward farming. Done.

THE NERD HAVE TAKEN OVER MY THREAD HELP ME

All i cna see hear from all the moaning is a lot of people who don't play many FPS games.

In EVERY game i've ever played this happens.............. EVRY SINGLE ONE.

The games where it happens least or not at all are the ones people actually get more fun etc. out of actually playing the game.

yes i know its a beta...........

but it's so so boring that is why people are looking for ways to get more kills ( i.e. tanks )

to get more SP to try stuff out ( hence farming )

for gods sake make people enjoy and want to play this or it's good night.

All i cna see hear from all the moaning is a lot of people who don't play many FPS games.

In EVERY game i've ever played this happens.............. EVRY SINGLE ONE.

The games where it happens least or not at all are the ones people actually get more fun etc. out of actually playing the game.

yes i know its a beta...........

but it's so so boring that is why people are looking for ways to get more kills ( i.e. tanks )

to get more SP to try stuff out ( hence farming )

for gods sake make people enjoy and want to play this or it's good night.

You haven't played many persistent territory games then mate. Go give Aion a shot or something - might very well change your opinion.

You haven't played many persistent territory games then mate. Go give Aion a shot or something - might very well change your opinion.

What is wrong with you people, i dont know or care if its an eve versus fps thing. An '' i like this and so should you '' thing.

I dont care.............. but i'm telling you i have played enough pc games and console games to know what makes people play and keep playing and what doesn't.

right now the way this stands. i'm sorry, it's terrible.

Oh and before i get some troll say '' well give your reasons ''

I am not prepared to wrote a five page essay on whats wrong and how to fix it.

if ccp want to pay me to sort this gmae out fine till then.

What is wrong with you people, i dont know or care if its an eve versus fps thing. An '' i like this and so should you '' thing.

I dont care.............. but i'm telling you i have played enough pc games and console games to know what makes people play and keep playing and what doesn't.

right now the way this stands. i'm sorry, it's terrible.

Oh and before i get some troll say '' well give your reasons ''

I am not prepared to wrote a five page essay on whats wrong and how to fix it.

if ccp want to pay me to sort this gmae out fine till then.

So - you read my response in the wrong light. That wasn't posted up in some form of arrogance or "eve vs whatever" manner - I was just telling you that people who are going to be playing this game are going to be playing it because it's something they can invest in. Aion ain't the greatest game in the world but people play it - and they're freaggin serious about it.

This is a niche game. Gaining more frakkin' SP just because you're playing more often or are "better" (hah) isn't what's going to make this game playable or increase it's replayability factor - it's the action/consequence effect and persistent risk/rewards factors.

Yet farming SP in the red zone where you are perfectly safe and risking nothing doesn't sound very freaggin serious to me. Rather sounds like an exploit in a mechanism that was intended to enumerate CONTRIBUTION. Doing nothing doesn't sound like contribution at all.

So - you read my response in the wrong light. That wasn't posted up in some form of arrogance or "eve vs whatever" manner - I was just telling you that people who are going to be playing this game are going to be playing it because it's something they can invest in. Aion ain't the greatest game in the world but people play it - and they're freaggin serious about it.

This is a niche game. Gaining more frakkin' SP just because you're playing more often or are "better" (hah) isn't what's going to make this game playable or increase it's replayability factor - it's the action/consequence effect and persistent risk/rewards factors.

Look I'm sorry i wasn't aswering you directly, i was answering in generall, just happened to quote your post as its in the same vein.

I am what i guess you would call a '' hard core gamer '' and i have seen what works and what doesn't.

COD is popular because its a kids and casuals game.

farcry2 was in the middle because it took an age to rank stuff but could be played for 5 mins then left.

MAG was popular at first, was an adults game and took teamwork and skill. it died because of sony and zipper and was not supported.


these are just games i've used to try to explain.

yes this will be a neiche market to a large extent but it still has to make whoever plays it..... want to play it.

Well what's not to love about crushing forum trolls/warriors with brutal efficiency in a virtual world and backing them so far into a corner that they have to hire out another corporation to do anything about it =P

Seems to be a lot of moaning in this thread. It is a beta and you have all volunteered or asked to play it. There is miles more stuff to be added to the game and I suspect if they want to make a good job of it then it will not be released until well into 2013. If you want to play a completed game play something else.

Turn on ff and let the problem sort itself out

lol............ you really have no idea.......

things will get a hundred times worse and there will be many many more dust deletions from ps3's.

A cap for a given activity is a bad solution. People need to specialize in order to become good, so encouraging them to perform a variety of tasks is counter-productive.
A general cap is a terrible solution. It punishes the players for the cheaters' offenses.

The obvious solution would be to make cheating easily reportable and bannable (if there are logs). False reporting should be bannable too, obviously.

Also, giving an SP reward for winning the match would discourage players from sitting in their corner, doing their stuff, and encourage them to participate instead.

After looking at the forums, I welcome that result.

Really .......... this is your contribution...........

It's been on sale with the merc pack.........

it was released to playstation plus players..........

now its coming out in a bundle pack...........

Honestly, how many people do you really think will try this and not delete it after a few hours ?

something miraculous better happen next build, or good night Vienna.

From what I have seen it seems to me like the player base might follow the same pattern EVE does as far as growth, first only appeasing the few gamers and slowly growing over time as the game gets better with new builds. I think we will have enough players by the time we reach null sec with the growing numbers already in a corp and don't forget that more people care to post there dislikes than those who actually like the game.

How the hell is this cheating, its bad game making not cheating for gods sake, anyone in the game can do it, not just a few players.

was driving around abusing tanks for months cheating then ?

YES YES it was. Dirty stinking no good tanks. Damit another dropship on fire brb.

lmao............. shut the hell up Sha.

Sorry mate, wrong.

this aint eve, its not a pc game, its a console fps.

75% of people i've got to try this have already deleted this or at the very least, said, '' never again ''

if this carrys on dust will be a bad memory inside 2 yrs.


EDIT..... lol. actually one of my ps3 gaming friends, deleted dust a month ago and now is hooked on eve. ironic eh.

That was intelligent... *cough* *cough
* three year old *cough*

I'd like to wait til open beta before I make any final decision, we are supposed to get an overhaul next build and I want to see if CCP will pull through then...... we'll see.

When I was in the MAG beta as well as the final game I was convinced that the game would outright fail. I wasn't entirely wrong it definitely didn't meet expectations but it still managed to get a decent amount of dedicated players. I see alot more potential in Dust. It takes MAGs concept to the level it should have been and pushes past that now its a matter of fixing the playability as far as hit detection, server instability, and a list of other bugs. Again I want to see if these things improve next build. I'm not expecting CCP to pull the best fps ever out of there ass when new build comes, I'm just hoping for a good idea of the actual game post launch.

Alrighty :0

Random post doesn't deserve to exist.

Was replying to Icecream but it wouldn't let me quote... Therefore NOT a random post. You only THOUGHT it was. No hate from me here :P

Its all good man, srry if that came out a little hateful wasn't meant to be.

But it does restrict memory bandwidth in game by having an entire system to calculate whether or not 'x' damage was inflicted by 'y' circumstance and whether or not 'x' damage should or should not be repaired by 'z' person. Now multiply that by every single vehicle/player in the game and you've got a huge issue.

So if Im a slayer and I only kill, then I will be affected

Good point Aeon - maybe.

I'm assuming the system already tracks what damage individual players do to a vehicle, since it gives us the warpoint reward when another player kills the vehicle. If that's the case it's at the very least already tracking what playes have damaged the vehicle. The remaining question is if it's tracking how much of that damage was done by each player.

I think it does, for this reason: If you damage a vehicle, and get warpoints for that, and then the vehicle is repaired, and then damaged by another player, and then destroyed by yet another player, you get no warpoints for the kill. The system already knows who damaged a vehicle and whether that damage has been repaired.

I'm assuming the system already tracks what damage individual players do to a vehicle, since it gives us the warpoint reward when another player kills the vehicle. If that's the case it's at the very least already tracking what playes have damaged the vehicle. The remaining question is if it's tracking how much of that damage was done by each player.

Bad people in proto gear can still kill better people in lesser gear...meeting someone who made proto in a couple of weeks by repping the mcc WILL make a difference to you, when you still run around in standard gear...

I will say it again...... every single game i've ever played has this in one form or another.

Stop one thing, people WILL find another. There are countless ways to get XP SP KDR rank up weopons etc. in any and every game.

The games that have less of a problem with people going out of their way looking for these loopholes are I hesitate to say it.
'' good gameplay games ''

By this I mean, games that make you want to do what the devs and players had in mind it would be.

If you make it, uninteresting, boring, no fun and no challenge people will make their own fun.

Just a tiny example from MAG for instance.

We as a clan were done and bored with what we were supposed to do, so set our own line in the sand. we took a thing or area and said '' come take it from us '' most of the time in fact 99% of the time people forgot what they were supposed to do and just kept coming and coming and coming.. proxy helped with this because they were so wound up and wanted revenge. Voila, massive fun and adrenalin for us and them.

Want a game to work, forget all the stupid whining about graphics and the like, make each team want to win and be desperte to kill the other team.

Give us gameplay. To those of you who don't get this. I'm sorry, you probably never will.

I will say it again...... every single game i've ever played has this in one form or another.

Stop one thing, people WILL find another. There are countless ways to get XP SP KDR rank up weopons etc. in any and every game.

The games that have less of a problem with people going out of their way looking for these loopholes are I hesitate to say it.
'' good gameplay games ''

By this I mean, games that make you want to do what the devs and players had in mind it would be.

If you make it, uninteresting, boring, no fun and no challenge people will make their own fun.

Just a tiny example from MAG for instance.

We as a clan were done and bored with what we were supposed to do, so set our own line in the sand. we took a thing or area and said '' come take it from us '' most of the time in fact 99% of the time people forgot what they were supposed to do and just kept coming and coming and coming.. proxy helped with this because they were so wound up and wanted revenge. Voila, massive fun and adrenalin for us and them.

Want a game to work, forget all the stupid whining about graphics and the like, make each team want to win and be desperte to kill the other team.

Give us gameplay. To those of you who don't get this. I'm sorry, you probably never will.

ICECREAM your gonna get my thread locked :(

Sorry man, I hope not, that's sure not my intention I promise you.

reduce the amount of SP from individual actions drastically (/5 or even /10) and then hand out a massive SP bonus for winning the match. Good players are still rewarded (albeit not as much as now), but stat padders might be inclined to work for winning the match instead of maximizing their warpoints.

So, I've made my way through all five pages of this thread, and I've seen people complaining, raging and throwing out opinions, but very rarely giving an alternative solution to stop SP farming other than the SP cap proposed by CCP. I think a cap can be a very sensible solution, and I can't see any suggestion made in this thread that would solve the problem in a better way or by introducing less problems. Here's why:

What have people suggested in this thread to solve the problem of SP farming?

• turning on friendly fire
• removing SP gained from repairing team damage
• making the game more fun to play

I'm not saying those points wouldn't help in combating SP farming, but they never will fix the problem for good. Because in the long run, Dust will be a game about controlling territory and holding sovereignty over parts of the game world, just like in Eve Online. In fact, we all know that Dust is meant to be a major factor in deciding about the sovereignty of large corporations and alliances in Eve. Most of those corporations don't bother with honor or fair play, they just want to win fights and increase their influence, and that also means winning matches in Dust. If having more SP helps to win matches, and farming SP can be done, then most corps will do it. Does anyone really think big corps will not set up fake corp battles for the sole purpose of farming SP by repeatedly hacking and re-hacking objectives? How can friendly fire help in this situation, how does it help that they don't receive SP for repairing team damage? How does it help that the game is fun to play? It will make those people want to win even more, not make them quit farming precious SP.

The fact is, being an MMO, advancing the skill tree of Dust unlocks a big part of the actual content of the game. People play the game to experience this content, and they want to experience it rather sooner than later. That's why people will always be willing to grab easy SP and they will always be inclined to farm SP if it's feasible. The only thing that could deter them from doing this would be CCP declaring SP farming a bannable offence and actually starting to bann people for it. That would require CCP to actually detect this kind of activity, which means investing huge amounts of time, money and man power during the whole lifetime of the game that could be used to improve the game instead. It would be an endless battle that could never be won, always tilted in favour of the offender, just like the fight against cheaters, botters and real money traders.

Introducing a SP cap for matches has the potential to really marginalize the effect of SP farming on the game, without fighting that endless battle. Of course the perfect solution has already been found by Eve Online, a 100% time based SP gain that is equal for everyone, but it's easy to see why this does not translate well to an FPS environment.

So to summarize, I think the SP cap really makes sense, and no feasible alternative has been brought up yet. Well, except for this:

I actually like this idea, but the same people that complain now about not getting enough SP for being good because of a SP cap will then moan about not getting the massive 'you win'-bonus just because their noob team didn't win the match. I also think it will make it harder for less talented players to advance in the game, because they'll find themselves on the loosing side more often than not. Additionally, organized groups and clans/corps will be swimming in SP because they tend to own unorganized teams in public matches, even those without top players. So all in all I think it would introduce an imbalance that the SP cap can avoid, since it affects every player equally.

Wow, your post is just as unhelpful as the rest of the posts you were complaining about except yours actually wasted 3 minutes of my life span.

Every single FPS deals with this problem. All of them have it. All of them deal with it the same way. You report them and move on.